From Russia with love [#28]: Autumn to Winter 2017

[MAXSwagg]

I do not believe that blandness is their default when they have had some fun and/or powerful short programs, and a rather sweet exhibition program. They have shown that they CAN do more, why they don't... I don't know. And just because Chopin is classical music doesn't mean that it was the right classical music for them. I recall that program had quite a bit of tinkly piano, which is a very bad look for them. Big, emotional, sweeping music would be better. They should let their elements be the main focus, not have them hidden behind a wall of blah all the time.

I agree. They need more dramatic, programmatic pieces. Rach was good. Maybe they can try Prokofiev, or Stravinsky, or Shostakovich. Or even Webern or something...

 

[Ananas Astra]

Just got up. Couldn't watch since I have an important visit from my supervisors coming up in my English lesson today.

Great for S/M, sad for T/M...but what did Duhamel do when Tarasova broke down?

 

[Vash01]

I think Hekalo choreographed it though? This "blandness" is just who they are on the ice. People for get they tried Chopin. I saw it live in Boston. It didn't work. I mean, people are so rude about T/M (and Duhamel's reaction when Tarasova just broke down in the K&C was disgusting). Did it occur to anyone that this is what they wanted to skate to? Or that they like it and believe in it?

I didn't watch anything after T&M's scores went up. I knew, based on how they skated, that they would not make the podium. The scores just made it official. I did see S&M's tears of joy for a moment, then I turned off the TV. I couldn't bear to watch the rest. What kind of reaction did Duhamel have? (It's not like I want to see it).

I avoided reading anything on fsu until I came to this thread.

Sui-Han: Oh so close! One fatal mistake on the sbs jump.

S&M were great but with a clean skate and the 5 point SP lead, T&M had a chance.

I am sad for them but before tonight's competition I had detached myself from any emotions positive or negative. So it did not hurt. So the disappointment is there, but I will sleep well tonight.

T&M are too talented to be left off the podium. It is time they found the right coach and choreographer. This time they said they chose Candyman because they wanted to improve their audience connection. Why couldn't the coach tell them it was not the best music for them? In any case it didn't matter since they didn't deliver in the LP. Tamara used to hypnotize her skaters. May be that's what T&M need. They just can't put together a clean SP and a clean LP in the same competition. They did put it together at the 2016 worlds but they still finished in the 4th place.

I wonder if Oleg Vasiliev may be a good coach for them? Tamara would be the best unless she doesn't want to coach anymore. I really want them to move away from Mozer.

 

[binbinwinwin]

Just got up. Couldn't watch since I have an important visit from my supervisors coming up in my English lesson today.

Great for S/M, sad for T/M...but what did Duhamel do when Tarasova broke down?

She realized that her and Eric was on the podium, there was nothing disgusting about it

 

[Vash01]

Mozer has RUINED Russian pairs.

She gets credit for V&T's OGM but she has not accomplished anything since. Even V&T could not win a world medal after their Olympic triumph. It is time the RSF started investing in other coaches.

 

[Lovemyvike]

Glad the camera cut away when it did. Poor Tarasova, she was heartbroken

I was so sad for her. She looked shaky the entire program. I think the pressure was too much. But they're young and extremely talented. Hopefully they can find a coach that will package them better.

 

[Vash01]

I agree. They need more dramatic, programmatic pieces. Rach was good. Maybe they can try Prokofiev, or Stravinsky, or Shostakovich. Or even Webern or something...

They could try movie themes. It is easier when you have a story to tell.

Other compsers they could try - Shostakovich, Rimsky Korsakov, and Rachmaninov again. I would like to see them skate to Elegie or the theme by Paganini. I wonder if they should try Lori Nichols for their choreography? She did wonders with Shen and Zhao.

 

[Cherub721]

BTW, was Trankov commentating? What did he say?

 

[NAOTMAA]

I wonder if Oleg Vasiliev may be a good coach for them? Tamara would be the best unless she doesn't want to coach anymore. I really want them to move away from Mozer.

You know Tomianina and Marinin weren't the most exciting pair (they still didn't deserve the "dull and duller" nickname though ) but Oleg Vasiliev packaged them wonderfully. He highlighted their gorgeous speed, unison, and pure lines perfectly. A clinic of what made Russian pairs skating so brilliant. Even the programs he gave M/T would have easily worked better for T/M then what they currently are being given

 

[caseyedwards]

I was so sad for her. She looked shaky the entire program. I think the pressure was too much. But they're young and extremely talented. Hopefully they can find a coach that will package them better.

Moser got them a great sp! Then she decided to let t/m have their choice of free what! So then the issue does loser become stricter and never let t/m have input in a program again!

 

[Vash01]

You know Tomianina and Marinin weren't the most exciting pair (they still didn't deserve the "dull and duller" nickname though ) but Oleg Vasiliev packaged them wonderfully. He highlighted their gorgeous speed, unison, and pure lines perfectly. A clinic of what made Russian pairs skating so brilliant. Even the programs he gave M/T would have easily worked better for T/M then what they currently are being given

M/T?

Totmianina Marinin were wonderful when they skated to Snow storm, Ave Maria and Scheherazade. Even the Edwin Marten piece worked really well with them. Before that they had tried the Cotton Club and it was awful. I lived them after they went to Oleg. Fsu posters are very unfair to them.

M&D skated a humorous LP at the 1990 worlds and it was just not them. The following year Tamara gave them Liebestraum and they became a legendary pair.

T&M need a real change.

It's not over for T&M. They are young and they need to find the right path for them. Banging their heads on the same wall may produce the same results.

 

[NAOTMAA]

@Vash01

I was talking about Mukhortova and Trankov but I guess its easy to forget that pairing after dream team V/T accomplished everything Russia and fans wanted them to. Poor Maria

 

[Vash01]

@Vash01

I was talking about Mukhortova and Trankov but I guess its easy to forget that pairing after dream team V/T accomplished everything Russia and fans wanted them to. Poor Maria

Oh Mukhartova! She was actually a very good pairs skater. She and Trankov didn't have the magic Volosozhar & Trankov had.

I am glad the men's competition starts tomorrow, so I can put this behind me.

 

[Amy L]

I never felt too sorry for Maria. Her dating Vassiliev really put a wedge in that pair, especially the claims that Trankov wasn't allowed to leave training to see his dying father but Vassiiev later took Mukhortova on a beach vacation because she was "stressed out".

I think Vassiliev could do some decent work with Tarasova&Morozov, except that he dated Tatiana Totmianina when he coached her then dated Maria. I don't want him trying the same things on Evgenia.

 

[alchemy void]

If they had executed their elements, they would have won either the gold or a silver tonight. I hated the program but when they skate clean, the judges reward them, no matter how bad the program. Changing the program wouldn't have changed the result if they did what they did tonight.

Vash, my friend, I couldn't have said it any better.

T/M did not lose a medal because of Candyman. They lost because of the tech errors in the beginning.

Having said that, I was happy they were able to salvage the second half of the program, I was really afraid it was going to go off the rails after the throw salchow error.

I do agree a coaching change could be helpful. Does Vasiliev coach anymore? Perhaps the Totmiana/Marin model is the way to go...

 

[Vash01]

Vash, my friend, I couldn't have said it any better.

T/M did not lose a medal because of Candyman. They lost because of the tech errors in the beginning.

Having said that, I was happy they were able to salvage the second half of the program, I was really afraid it was going to go off the rails after the throw salchow error.

I do agree a coaching change could be helpful. Does Vasiliev coach anymore? Perhaps the Totmiana/Marin model is the way to go...

I mentioned Vasiliev in one of my posts. Also Tamara knows how to package her skaters. T&M need a coach who is willing to invest in them, and help them develop the consistency they need so badly.

Elena Bechke had nerves in competitions. She couldn't stop two footing her jumps. Tamara worked with her and she and Denis won the Olympic silver in Albertville.

 

[Loves_Shizuka]

Isn't Mozer "retiring" after this season anyway, or have I just imagined that?

 

[caseyedwards]

T/M were the only team in the final group where people had bad things to say about their program! Even d/r had better vibes because at least they won world championship with Adele. Candyman created an incredible and insidious and insurmountable negative energy that destroyed them.

 

[alchemy void]

incredible and insidious and insurmountable

Someone's been doing their research on dictionary.com!

 

[Cherub721]

I never felt too sorry for Maria. Her dating Vassiliev really put a wedge in that pair, especially the claims that Trankov wasn't allowed to leave training to see his dying father but Vassiiev later took Mukhortova on a beach vacation because she was "stressed out".

His father died right before 2012 or 2013 Europeans when he was already with Volo, but I agree with your overall point.

Isn't Mozer "retiring" after this season anyway, or have I just imagined that?

And taking S&K and T&M with her, so she says.

 

[NAOTMAA]

Isn't Mozer "retiring" after this season anyway, or have I just imagined that?

after everything that's happened tonight its not nice to play with peoples emotions and let them get their hopes up

but I REALLY hope your right and its the beginning of the end of her reign of blah

 

[alchemy void]

You know Tomianina and Marinin weren't the most exciting pair (they still didn't deserve the "dull and duller" nickname though ) but Oleg Vasiliev packaged them wonderfully. He highlighted their gorgeous speed, unison, and pure lines perfectly. A clinic of what made Russian pairs skating so brilliant. Even the programs he gave M/T would have easily worked better for T/M then what they currently are being given

I think Tarasova/Morozov would rock the hell out of Otonal TBH...

 

[Amy L]

His father died right before 2012 or 2013 Europeans when he was already with Volo, but I agree with your overall point.

I didn't remember when his father passed away, but I know that he was sick for a long time. So it wasn't as bad as not being allowed to visit his father's deathbed, but it still wasn't great that he wasn't allowed to go for whatever hypocritical reason Vassiliev had at the time.

 

[MAXSwagg]

I don’t think they need anything as drastic as a coaching change. “Mental hiccups” of some skaters just happen. Aliona made as many mistakes as Robin under Steuer, and still makes many mistakes with Koenig as the coach. V/T always made random errors but somehow Mozer got them completely focused under immense pressure leading into Sochi. Mozer is fine and I don’t thinj the situation is dire enough to warrant a coaching change. They just need better packaging.

Frankly, I don’t think they felt much pressure. It seems she just had a random mistake on that throw. They always have had issues with the sbs jumps which across the whole competition we’re surprisingly good here even with the double.

 

[Loves_Shizuka]

after everything that's happened tonight its not nice to play with peoples emotions and let them get their hopes up

but I REALLY hope your right and its the beginning of the end of her reign of blah

And taking S&K and T&M with her, so she says.

I may be wrong A Russian friend told me she gave an interview saying she wanted to quit after Sochi and only continued to Pyeongchang because of a "promise" and then that would be it.

I shall try and find this interview

 

[skatingguy]

Think I missed this--what happened?

Megan & Eric were hugging, and Megan was somewhere between smiling and crying while holding her head. She kind of looked like she was shocked, and yet also relieved.

 

[SmallFairy]

I've loved T/M since they were juniors, skating classical programs. They renewed my hope in Russian pairs, that we would get a pair with classic features, strong in elements, lovely flow in the years to come. Then they started messing with all sort of music and (non)choreo. Because I really love them, I despise Candyman with all my heart, as they deserve so much better. That program is a joke. If I was indifferent, I guess I wouldn't mind that much

I felt really sorry for them yesterday, but they have proved earlier they are unstable. They've had their meltdowns through the seasons. They haven't been in this position before, so close to Olympic gold. It's a learning experience. Candyman is a very demanding program, the tempo is insane. I truly hope this is a wake up call, to change something. They seem to need help to be able to find themselves. For some skaters it takes years. Kristina Czako was in the dark for a long time, until she clicked with the right choreographer. Rach is great for them, I hope they continue on that path. @Vash01 had some good suggestions earlier in the thread. I want them with Moskvina. I've wanted that for years. But I guess it might not happen....

And Duhamel did nothing wrong. She realized she was on the podium, celebrating. Who wouldn't, and who hasn't? Good camerawork, he/she cut very fast when poor Evgenia broke down. But what other have said here - they didn't loose because of the program. They lost because they made mistakes. Thankfully they're young. #podium2022

 

[Deleted member 40371]

Is Moskvina planning to coach till 100? K/S also didn’t win a medal for Russia at the Olympics. I will keep T/M with the same coaching team and may be hire a good choreographer for the team. Hopefully one of the bizzillon junior teams will Challenge them at the nationals.

 

[caseyedwards]

I've loved T/M since they were juniors, skating classical programs. They renewed my hope in Russian pairs, that we would get a pair with classic features, strong in elements, lovely flow in the years to come. Then they started messing with all sort of music and (non)choreo. Because I really love them, I despise Candyman with all my heart, as they deserve so much better. That program is a joke. If I was indifferent, I guess I wouldn't mind that much

I felt really sorry for them yesterday, but they have proved earlier they are unstable. They've had their meltdowns through the seasons. They haven't been in this position before, so close to Olympic gold. It's a learning experience. Candyman is a very demanding program, the tempo is insane. I truly hope this is a wake up call, to change something. They seem to need help to be able to find themselves. For some skaters it takes years. Kristina Czako was in the dark for a long time, until she clicked with the right choreographer. Rach is great for them, I hope they continue on that path. @Vash01 had some good suggestions earlier in the thread. I want them with Moskvina. I've wanted that for years. But I guess it might not happen....

And Duhamel did nothing wrong. She realized she was on the podium, celebrating. Who wouldn't, and who hasn't? Good camerawork, he/she cut very fast when poor Evgenia broke down. But what other have said here - they didn't loose because of the program. They lost because they made mistakes. Thankfully they're young. #podium2022

Candyman was very demanding In its very aggressive horribleness and atrociousness and that’s what made them make the mistakes!

 

[annie_mg]

Mozer is fine and I don’t thinj the situation is dire enough to warrant a coaching change. They just need better packaging.

Do you think Mozer can give them that packaging? I don't. Hence the coaching change they need.