Virtue, Moir hope revamped programs will lift them to Olympic gold

[Japanfan]

I think that is PC's problem - chemistry and their ability to skate together.
He is a much stronger skater than she is and I always watch him. They don't have an iota of chemistry which is very difficult for a latin rhythm.

Interesting - I've never realized until now that I feel P/C have a lack of chemistry (the immediate contrast that comes to mind is the Italians).

However, 'Moonlight Sonata' masks that well, as the music alone casts a spell - a very intelligent choice for P/C for the Olympics, IMO.

 

[allezfred]

So I wake up this morning to find out the two-time World champions, four-time European champions and reigning Grand Prix Final champions lack chemistry. These Olympics can’t be over soon enough.

 

[maya1985]

It's getting worse.

I really like Guillame and would love to see him skate with someone else.....

of course, he will leave his partner with whom he skates since he was a child, with whom he is double world champion, four times European champions, undefeated this season, and with whom he likes to skate. I guess he should leave her before the Olympics

 

[annie_mg]

I think that is PC's problem - chemistry and their ability to skate together. He is a much stronger skater than she is and I always watch him. They don't have an iota of chemistry which is very difficult for a latin rhythm.

Interesting, since the reason I'm not a V/M uber is because I don't see the chemistry. When I think of chemistry I immediately think of Anissina/Peizerat (unsuprising I know looking at my avatar). There are others obviously but they were a great example. For me. Figure Skating is that subjective! That's why we all have our favourites. No need to argue about it!

 

[Anyasnake]

I think that is PC's problem - chemistry and their ability to skate together. He is a much stronger skater than she is and I always watch him. They don't have an iota of chemistry which is very difficult for a latin rhythm.

For me, this is as untrue as saying Scott has not good partnering skills IMO, Scott, in terms of the classical "presenting his partner" has the best skills in the world. You can see they've been skating for 20+ years.

About PapaCiz : Amazing chemistry (not just romantic if needed but more than that) and I often hear commentators saying : "They skate like one".
Word from the british commentators : "They're perfectly matched they could be brother and sister, yet the chemistry is so good".
By the way, it's often normal to watch one more than the other : Tessa, Maddison Chock, for example. But here it's just the man for a lot of people and that is less common.

(Again, opinions )

EDIT : about all the posts above about chemistry, it's not just "they have it or not", I think. If they have their own, unique type of connection, it's the best. Virtue/Moir, Annissina/Peizerat, Papadakis/Cizeron, Shibsibs, Hubbell/Donohue (even Ilinykh/Katsalapov at the time) are examples for me of amazing connections and understanding (not I/K for that though) . You cannot teach that uniqueness sometimes.

 

[Asli]

Interesting - I've never realized until now that I feel P/C have a lack of chemistry (the immediate contrast that comes to mind is the Italians).

However, 'Moonlight Sonata' masks that well, as the music alone casts a spell - a very intelligent choice for P/C for the Olympics, IMO.

And now you've realised it just because some poster tells you they don't?

You're right, Moonlight Sonata is a very good choice. People can at least listen to some beautiful music while such a mediocre team as P/C are skating. /sarcasm over

 

[Asli]

Good for V/M in showing how much they believe in their fp and tweaks they've made to it. They've been dedicated in their desire to come back and expand their growth as athletes and dancers. They are sincere and driven and great at what they do, and that benefits the sport and the ice dance discipline. I also think the chance of working with M-F & Patch in the competitive realm and against the best in P/C et al, provided a necessary challenge that pushed V/M even more, and in turn helped P/C's growth and benefited everyone in their camp (coaches, skaters) thus impacting other skaters and resonating throughout the ice dance world.

Absolutely, I totally agree with you. V/M are unique in the sport for what they have done. They didn't rest on their laurels as olympic and world champions. They could have easily been top two just relying on their terrific skating skills and some nice choreography.

Instead, they went back to the drawing board, completely revising their technique and interpretation. For the last two years they have had programs of a completely different level of intricacy and subtlety than they have had in the rest of their career.

The circular step sequence used to look like Tessa's weakness, the element during which her freedom of movement used to disappear. Now it's completely unrecognisable, perfect! Scott has reached a level of expression that I didn't think he had in him. Every program is packed with intricacy. How much work and willpower must these have required when they had already won everything!

Absolute rock stars!

It would have been frustrating if Tessa and Scott had ended their career with only the Shpilband and Zoueva programs. Of course they made all of their programs look beautiful with their fantastic skating, but with the exception of the flamenco and Carmen, their choreography upto 2014 didn't make use of their magnificient skills and their artistic talents. Fortunately they came back and fulfilled their potential, to our delight!

THANK YOU for coming back Tessa and Scott! Don't go! If you stay forever it will be too short!

 

[Twilight1]

I fully admit my National uber'dom' for Tessa and Scott but "if" they had retired with Carmen, I would have been fine. Sad but fine

I know sacrilege. But that will always be my favourite program of theirs.

That said, I am happy they revamped themselves and I like MR just like I like their FD from last year. Just think my preference for them to win in South Korea comes from being a hard core Canuck fan over liking their material more than P&C. But then, I find P&C sublime but feel like I have seen this program for 4 years now. (I know sacrilege again)

What I can watch over and over are the short dances. So amazing. Both teams.

(and not seeing the incredible partnering skills of both teams is just to me. Not sure what the heck I am watching when I watch P&C and V&M if they suck at partnering skills. I see them as partnering skills 101. All teams should emulate that terribleness then )

 

[Anyasnake]

(and not seeing the incredible partnering skills of both teams is just to me. Not sure what the heck I am watching when I watch P&C and V&M if they suck at partnering skills. I see them as partnering skills 101. All teams should emulate that terribleness then )

This +1000000
The rest can be a pure question of taste, bias, or whatever - and it's okay. But skills are hard to deny

 

[Asli]

(and not seeing the incredible partnering skills of both teams is just to me. Not sure what the heck I am watching when I watch P&C and V&M if they suck at partnering skills. I see them as partnering skills 101. All teams should emulate that terribleness then )

Absolutely! Both are beyond perfect in that respect.

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

Interesting, since the reason I'm not a V/M uber is because I don't see the chemistry. When I think of chemistry I immediately think of Anissina/Peizerat (unsuprising I know looking at my avatar). There are others obviously but they were a great example. For me. Figure Skating is that subjective! That's why we all have our favourites. No need to argue about it!

Do you mistake chemistry with passion?

 

[Twilight1]

Do you mistake chemistry with passion?

Must be this imho. P&C have a softer sell with their chemistry. When I think of passionate chemistry I think of Klimova & Ponomarenko or Usova & Zhulin.

Even Anissina and Peizerat had moments where their chemistry was questionable but the passion was there.

To be honest, very few teams have both passion and chemistry. Usually one over the other. Dubreuil & Lauzon also had both imho...

P&C definitely have chemistry...passion too but not so in your face.

Carmen from V&M had both and probably why that is my favourite program of theirs.

 

[barbarafan]

I see what you mean sap5. Guillaume said in an interview last year that the depth of their edges could be a disadvantage in the step sequences. He said it's easier to do clean turns with shallower edges and sometimes they have to tone down their knee bend a bit.

Gabriella and Guillaume have skated the Finnstep in their first senior season. Here's their quickstep-foxtrot-quickstep SD from 2014. They have progressed loads since, but one can't fault their crispness even then.

Here's their terrific free dance from the same year. Criminally undermarked, but no harm done because the judges woke up the next year.

Gabriella and Guillaume are always crisp and exactly on the beat. For a dance with a different feel, here is an Elvis Presley medley they danced when they were juniors and their excellent flamenco shows a different mood too.

I think Gabriella is brilliant in quick sharp movements and shows loads of personality and I loved their short last year. Guillaume does not seem to suit it as well but with his amazing skating skills he perfectly supports her antics and keeps them in perfect balance. And I say this as a confirmed V/M uber.

 

[Rafter]

It was good but no match for V/M flamenco from 2010 Olympics.

VMs flamenco from 2010 is one of Zoueva’s strongest choreographic works.

 

[Rafter]

The movie is nice, very well designed and mastered. Some parts are really interesting especially when Samuel Chouinard explains how some sequences were first created and then step by step modified.

Now, no one is fooled. Releasing such video 15 days prior the individual competitions seems a little fishy! I would have preferred to see a movie like this one released much earlier. Talking about the program, the choreography, the music choice, etc is perfectly fine by me. Now, was it worth and well inspired to talk about "perfect score"? Not sure... especially next to Olys... One can even wonder whether there was a Grand-Prix season, and a GPF! In the end, it makes me feel really uncomfortable. Several sequences really look like outrageous propaganda. The most ridiculous thing is Leanna Caron appearing here and there. She pretends to be judge in int'l competitions while being head of the Canadian fed! What a shame! The ISU should seriously change some rules.

The Canadian fed is obviously ready to promote V/M at any cost. It's not new, they already did it last season but it seems they are ready to spend even more money this season. After the hearings, massive propaganda on social networks, ridiculous (not say hilarious) scores at Canadian Nat'l (widely promoted), it's now time for a movie... What else should we expect by Feb. 19th?

OMG this post is too much. Talk about paranoia.

Do you also think it’s a big conspiracy that Baz Luhrmann, Hollywood director from Australia and the mastermind behind the Moulin Rouge movie has posted this on his Facebook (and Twitter and Instagram)?

https://www.facebook.com/BazLuhrmannOfficial/

It’s got almost 10,000 likes, 2400 comments and 500,000+ views.

Maybe Baz Luhrmann and Skate Canada are in kahoots too.

Anyway, it’s nice to see figure skating getting some more mainstream attention.

Btw it’s interesting that so many people are up in arms about Leanna Caron. No one seemed to care when Benoit Lavoie was judging while also being the President of Skate Canada. Same with Alla S judging while being married to Piseev.

 

[Rafter]

You realize that Tessa and Scott had an entire show about them leading into Sochi on Canadian TV right?

The only conspiracy theorist on here right now is you lmfao.

Yeah really!

I guess the propaganda this year isn’t working that well because they only get a half hour documentary vs. an 8 or 10 episode reality show in 2014.

 

[Rafter]

I've seen many criticisms about VM over the years, but the idea that Scott isn't a great partner, isn't always in the right place for Tessa, doesn't look at her, doesn't present her, and doesn't have a connection with her are really ones I've never, ever seen before. And seeing as they've skated for 20 years now, that's really saying something. I think this thread is officially in the looney bin.

You can say that again.

 

[Asli]

Why would it be a bad thing for the Canadian federation to promote their skaters and try to attract the public's attention just before the olympics? Isn't it their duty to attract more athletes and spectators and raise the profile of their sport?

I mean, they have an ice dance couple that has already won every title. Two personable, charismatic and eloquent ambassadors for the sport. What should their federation do, sweep them under the rug? Shut them in the broom cupboard until the olympics so nobody notices?

 

[annie_mg]

Do you mistake chemistry with passion?

I don't think so. For me chemistry is the relationship between the two people skating together. Virtue and Moir have TONS of passion, but their chemistry is not so prominent to my eyes. Sorry

 

[Vera Costa]

I think what makes chemistry subjective is that we each have different definitions for it. It doesn't need to be the same for each and every team. Chemistry and connection are also different, imo.

H/D, W/P and V/M all have a lot of chemistry, but I don't view them as the same sort. V/M are the passionate kind. Passion doesn't necessarily mean the romantic kind, but about the partnership as a whole. I think it's why some see chemistry and some don't. V/M have the ability to make us see in them what we want to see. P/C's chemistry is such imo, that they make us see what they want us to see. One isn't necessarily better than the other, it just is what it is.

Weapo, I think have a lot of romantic chemistry while for H/D it tends to veer into the sexual kind. The Shibutanis also have chemistry, but it is familial.

 

[chantilly]

Both teams are fine skaters.
Both have strengths and weaknesses.

I’d say that V and M have more versatility thus far, and have more attack, dynamics and power.
I’d also say they are stronger technically in hold.

P and C are more fluid, ethereal and flowing. They also have a different way of moving their upper bodies than most ice dance teams.

As for chemistry they both have it but in different approaches.
V and M have romantic and sexual chemistry. They tell stories and explore relationships.

P and C have emotional chemistry through the interpretation of the music.

They generally focus on interpretation of emotions and music in a less narrative approach.

I like the MF and Tracy Wilson descriptors of Earth and Fire and Water and Air.

I’d argue that P and C have the more elevated program in terms of the music and V and M have the more commercial vehicle.

P and C are interpreting the emotions and feel of the music while V and M are telling the story and exploring the relationship of the music.

Both are difficult. It should come down to levels IMO because as far as I understand PCS, they both deliver equally.

The only thing I think V and M may have against them is the music,Moonlight Sonata against Moulin Rouge. I just think the more “elevated” music of Beethoven may tip it in P and C’s favour.

This is outside of judging panels and politics and bias, which in a subjective and political sport always comes into play, and the possible feeling that people don’t want V and M to take another gold. Not because they are V and M, but because people in general like to give it to someone new.

 

[Deleted member 74551]

My big problem with P/C's interpretation of the music this year is that...I sort of don't think they really do fully interpret it? The first half is absolutely gorgeous and fits perfectly and as a result it moves me, but I don't feel like their expression, be it physical or emotional, changes enough as the tempo does. Obviously the judges all completely disagree with my unpopular opinion here, but I think that, if their artistry is coming from digging into the nuances and emotions of the music rather than storytelling, that presto section needed more...not aggression or attack necessarily, but strength perhaps. I just think they could've gone deeper, because in the past their musical expression has been my favourite element of their skating. I think it's why the piece as a whole never fully clicked with me and it loses me after the (brilliant) stationary lift. YMMV of course. It might just be the music cuts, which jar a little to my ears because I know that piece so well.

I really don't think 'lack of chemistry' is a criticism anyone could lob at V/M, or P/C for that matter. I also don't think it matters all that much unless doing an explicitly romantic program.

 

[chantilly]

Yeah after the Europeans, the presto part still falls flat for me save the spin and choreographic spin.
I feel both their facial and body expression does not change from the first section nor match the intensity of the music

 

[IloveFS]

It's getting worse.


of course, he will leave his partner with whom he skates since he was a child, with whom he is double world champion, four times European champions, undefeated this season, and with whom he likes to skate. I guess he should leave her before the Olympics

I did not suggest that Guillame should leave his partner before the Olympics. I think that he would do even better with another partner. She is the weaker of the two skaters. The comment was actually meant to be a compliment to Guillame.

 

[IloveFS]

For me, this is as untrue as saying Scott has not good partnering skills IMO, Scott, in terms of the classical "presenting his partner" has the best skills in the world. You can see they've been skating for 20+ years.

About PapaCiz : Amazing chemistry (not just romantic if needed but more than that) and I often hear commentators saying : "They skate like one".
Word from the british commentators : "They're perfectly matched they could be brother and sister, yet the chemistry is so good".
By the way, it's often normal to watch one more than the other : Tessa, Maddison Chock, for example. But here it's just the man for a lot of people and that is less common.

(Again, opinions )

EDIT : about all the posts above about chemistry, it's not just "they have it or not", I think. If they have their own, unique type of connection, it's the best. Virtue/Moir, Annissina/Peizerat, Papadakis/Cizeron, Shibsibs, Hubbell/Donohue (even Ilinykh/Katsalapov at the time) are examples for me of amazing connections and understanding (not I/K for that though) . You cannot teach that uniqueness sometimes.

I guess I disagree with British commentators. Teams that have chemistry and passion - VM, HD, WP, CL.......Think about it.

 

[Anyasnake]

I guess I disagree with British commentators. Teams that have chemistry and passion - VM, HD, WP, CL.......Think about it.

No, my point was that they match so well, not about chemistry or passion - the "skating together" part.
Even though I think they have an incredible connection together. Unique. Just like all the teams you pointed out.

 

[chapis]

Some seasons ago it seemed to me that Cizeron ignored Gabriella a little during their performances, but they have worked on that. They do not seem to have a romantic or sexual chemistry but there is definitely chemistry.

 

[dramagrrl]

But then, I find P&C sublime but feel like I have seen this program for 4 years now. (I know sacrilege again)

See, for me, it’s one step further - I feel like I have seen a better version of the same idea from them before. I became a P/C fan because of “To Build a Home” and I still think it was a more emotional, coherent, and better choreographed FD than “Moonlight Sonata”. I would not have minded as much if PC had decided to skate the same style of FD yet again this season if I thought what they came up with was actually the best version of their style they have shown so far. Unfortunately, I don’t think this season’s FD is it.

 

[Judy]

VMs flamenco from 2010 is one of Zoueva’s strongest choreographic works.

Yes that program was incredible.

 

[Judy]

The movie is nice, very well designed and mastered. Some parts are really interesting especially when Samuel Chouinard explains how some sequences were first created and then step by step modified.

Now, no one is fooled. Releasing such video 15 days prior the individual competitions seems a little fishy! I would have preferred to see a movie like this one released much earlier. Talking about the program, the choreography, the music choice, etc is perfectly fine by me. Now, was it worth and well inspired to talk about "perfect score"? Not sure... especially next to Olys... One can even wonder whether there was a Grand-Prix season, and a GPF! In the end, it makes me feel really uncomfortable. Several sequences really look like outrageous propaganda. The most ridiculous thing is Leanna Caron appearing here and there. She pretends to be judge in int'l competitions while being head of the Canadian fed! What a shame! The ISU should seriously change some rules.

The Canadian fed is obviously ready to promote V/M at any cost. It's not new, they already did it last season but it seems they are ready to spend even more money this season. After the hearings, massive propaganda on social networks, ridiculous (not say hilarious) scores at Canadian Nat'l (widely promoted), it's now time for a movie... What else should we expect by Feb. 19th?

CBC or CTV always profiles Cdn athletes just before the Olympics. Don’t other countries do it? There is nothing fishy. I found this to be one of the better ones though I couldn’t understand the French.