Virtue, Moir hope revamped programs will lift them to Olympic gold

kwanfan1818

kwanfan1818

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That speaks to total score, depending on whether the points scale expands and/or is distributed in smaller increments across 1-5. But it doesn't speak to PCS, which is still maxxing out at 10.
 
Asli

Asli

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Fizz said:
Seems like a bit of a temporary fix to me. It might work brilliantly, but I can definitely see all the top teams just scoring +5 on everything 8 years down the line and the system having to be adjusted again.
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That may happen even next year, but still the -5 to +5 GoE allows for finer judging. The +3 system is definitely not enough to differentiate the couples.
 
Anyasnake

Anyasnake

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Fizz said:
Seems like a bit of a temporary fix to me. It might work brilliantly, but I can definitely see all the top teams just scoring +5 on everything 8 years down the line and the system having to be adjusted again.
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I think the scoring, even new, might be used to its limits until we decide to change it. In Ice Dance I can understand the very high PCS, in singles sometimes I don't. But I don't see top teams jumping to it right away anyway, it might take time to adjust, who knows ? I think the +-5 are actually because of jumps and single skating mostly.
But I like that it's constantly readjusting at least.
 
Golden1

Golden1

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maglia said:
The movie is nice, very well designed and mastered. Some parts are really interesting especially when Samuel Chouinard explains how some sequences were first created and then step by step modified.

Now, no one is fooled. Releasing such video 15 days prior the individual competitions seems a little fishy! I would have preferred to see a movie like this one released much earlier. Talking about the program, the choreography, the music choice, etc is perfectly fine by me. Now, was it worth and well inspired to talk about "perfect score"? Not sure... especially next to Olys... One can even wonder whether there was a Grand-Prix season, and a GPF! In the end, it makes me feel really uncomfortable. Several sequences really look like outrageous propaganda. The most ridiculous thing is Leanna Caron appearing here and there. She pretends to be judge in int'l competitions while being head of the Canadian fed! What a shame! The ISU should seriously change some rules.

The Canadian fed is obviously ready to promote V/M at any cost. It's not new, they already did it last season but it seems they are ready to spend even more money this season. After the hearings, massive propaganda on social networks, ridiculous (not say hilarious) scores at Canadian Nat'l (widely promoted), it's now time for a movie... What else should we expect by Feb. 19th?
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That's probably the most ridiculous post I have ever read on this forum. A documentary about a Canadian team on Canadian television a couple days before the Olympics is considered "fishy"?! Really? Oh my god, I'm German and a couple days ago I saw a program about SM on German television a week before the Olympics! Does this mean our German fed is trying to influence the pairs event??:rofl: Come on, it's the Olympics and every country is rooting for their athletes and every TV station is trying to raise attention to get more viewers. It's as simple as that. What should CBS do? Make a documentary about random European teams that have no relevance to the Canadian people? Why would I, as a "normal", not figure skating enthusiast, watch a documentary about another country's team? I mean there are probably a lot of documentaries about figure skaters in a lot of countries shown during the weeks before the Olympics, the judges would have to watch a lot of television...
 
Aussie Willy

Aussie Willy

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Zazy said:
IMO, while Guillaume is an absolutely amazing solo ice dancer, I don't think his partnering is on the same level as the rest of his skills. Scott Moir and Alex Shibutani, for example, are much stronger in this area. Now ice dance changes, evolves, certain things become less important. A case can definitely be made that P/C are the best ice dancers in the world, it all depends on what you value most in ice dance. But there really is no need to insult people who point out the obvious...
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As an ice dancer, Guillaume is a male ice dancer I would die to skate with. And a good male ice dancer also makes you want to skate with them. But the reason why he is such a great partner is he is always there for her. It is not about him. He looks at her and is always in the right place when they come out of a transition or turn. You don't get that level of chemistry without a connection between the partners. And they don't have to sell the sh*t out of a program to get you to watch it. As I said they draw you into their world. And they have an indefinable IT factor which just means you get it and it makes sense.

Sorry but I can't say the same with Scott or Alex. As much as I think they are both great male ice dancers, I wouldn't be interested in skating with them.
 
DannyCurry

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I love both teams. They're both brilliant and incredible on the ice. I'm biased towards the French because I would love them to get the OGM, while the Canadians are already Olympic champions. However, even though Moonlight Sonata is a magical program, it's not my favorite from Gabriella & Guillaume, probably because of some lifts I don't like. I loved MR as well, which was spectacular and intense, except the underwhelming ending of the first version. I've just watched the version from Nationals and I still need to get used to the changes but I think they made the right decision, especially on the ending.

It'd be heartbreaking to see any of the 2 teams not skate their best but at least ranking them would be easier. If both teams skate perfectly the SD and the FD, I think both would deserve to win and it would ultimately depend on the skate order, the reaction of the crowd and the politicking. I just hope there won't be a big scandal, with a tainted victory by either the French or the Canadians. Oh well, I hope P&C will manage to deal with the pressure (whereas I know V&M already have the experience, so I guess they'll be fine).
 
S

sap5

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Aussie Willy said:
As an ice dancer, Guillaume is a male ice dancer I would die to skate with. And a good male ice dancer also makes you want to skate with them. But the reason why he is such a great partner is he is always there for her. It is not about him. He looks at her and is always in the right place when they come out of a transition or turn. You don't get that level of chemistry without a connection between the partners. And they don't have to sell the sh*t out of a program to get you to watch it. As I said they draw you into their world. And they have an indefinable IT factor which just means you get it and it makes sense.

Sorry but I can't say the same with Scott or Alex. As much as I think they are both great male ice dancers, I wouldn't be interested in skating with them.
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I've seen many criticisms about VM over the years, but the idea that Scott isn't a great partner, isn't always in the right place for Tessa, doesn't look at her, doesn't present her, and doesn't have a connection with her are really ones I've never, ever seen before. And seeing as they've skated for 20 years now, that's really saying something. I think this thread is officially in the looney bin.
 
D

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It's been said by just about everyone involved in skating that Scott is the most sympathetic partner in the business. It's like in ballroom dancing where the man is trained to present the woman at all times- every choice Scott makes out there is designed and executed to showcase Tessa. He does it absolutely perfectly, always matching her movements exactly but never pulling focus. It's a fiendishly difficult thing to do. Of all the potential things V/M could improve on, their on-ice communication strikes me as the most bizarre thing to point out.
 
Z

Zazy

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sap5 said:
I've seen many criticisms about VM over the years, but the idea that Scott isn't a great partner, isn't always in the right place for Tessa, doesn't look at her, doesn't present her, and doesn't have a connection with her are really ones I've never, ever seen before. And seeing as they've skated for 20 years now, that's really saying something. I think this thread is officially in the looney bin.
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Well, I'll give her credit for attempting an answer instead of a sarcastic comment but it seems it's more about who she would like to skate with than the ability to present a partner, to lead her, which in turn makes it possible to skate complex interdependent choreography.

Maybe we have different definitions of ice dance partnering. To me it isn't about whether he's a nice guy, looks at his partner, has good performance chemistry with her, or is at the right place at the right time. PC have skated together for a long time but they have the partnering of a great pairs team: skating beautifully together, with great chemistry, but side by side instead of as a unit. Even in ballroom programs, where the lead-follow dynamic is important, their choreography skirts around it as much as possible. They're certainly not the only ones to do that - it's an epidemic right now in ice dance - but it's a noticeable aspect of ice dance difficulty that they aren't attempting.
 
Aussie Willy

Aussie Willy

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sap5 said:
I've seen many criticisms about VM over the years, but the idea that Scott isn't a great partner, isn't always in the right place for Tessa, doesn't look at her, doesn't present her, and doesn't have a connection with her are really ones I've never, ever seen before. And seeing as they've skated for 20 years now, that's really saying something. I think this thread is officially in the looney bin.
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I was responding to someone who commented that Guillaume is not a great male ice dancer and my comments were specifically about what I think of him as an ice dancer and why I think he is one of the best, if not the best male ice dancer I have seen. The only comment I made about Scott was I didn't think of him that way or that I wasn't interested in skating with him. Doesn't mean that my comment reduces this thread to looney bin status!
 
ChiquitaBanana

ChiquitaBanana

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Zemgirl said:
French Nationals are actually one of the least inflated national championships. Joubert and Amodio would regularly score lower nationally than internationally, and Papadakis and Cizeron got higher scores at Worlds than at Nationals in 2015 and 2016.
g.
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P&C could not get the national inflation this year as they had a subpar performance there, maybe fatigue after the fall season.
 
ChiquitaBanana

ChiquitaBanana

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maglia said:
Well, be aware P/C (and others) did much more than "cleaning up a transition and making minor adjustments in step sequences". BTW, a lot of points in ice dance are given for technical stuff which is almost invisible (or hardly visible) by common people. AFAIK, changing the music doesn't add any points.
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:blah::drama: I hopw you are not telling us you know more than most of us? I wouldn’t even dare making sure a comment here, you sure don’t know the background of some posters here (and I include myself).
 
ChiquitaBanana

ChiquitaBanana

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DannyCurry said:
I love both teams. They're both brilliant and incredible on the ice. I'm biased towards the French because I would love them to get the OGM, while the Canadians are already Olympic champions. However, even though Moonlight Sonata is a magical program, it's not my favorite from Gabriella & Guillaume, probably because of some lifts I don't like. I loved MR as well, which was spectacular and intense, except the underwhelming ending of the first version. I've just watched the version from Nationals and I still need to get used to the changes but I think they made the right decision, especially on the ending.

It'd be heartbreaking to see any of the 2 teams not skate their best but at least ranking them would be easier. If both teams skate perfectly the SD and the FD, I think both would deserve to win and it would ultimately depend on the skate order, the reaction of the crowd and the politicking. I just hope there won't be a big scandal, with a tainted victory by either the French or the Canadians. Oh well, I hope P&C will manage to deal with the pressure (whereas I know V&M already have the experience, so I guess they'll be fine).
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Thank you for that well-thought opinion, written with respect. That’s what I like to read on an internet forum. :2faced::hat1::respec:
 
I

IloveFS

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Zazy said:
Well, I'll give her credit for attempting an answer instead of a sarcastic comment but it seems it's more about who she would like to skate with than the ability to present a partner, to lead her, which in turn makes it possible to skate complex interdependent choreography.

Maybe we have different definitions of ice dance partnering. To me it isn't about whether he's a nice guy, looks at his partner, has good performance chemistry with her, or is at the right place at the right time. PC have skated together for a long time but they have the partnering of a great pairs team: skating beautifully together, with great chemistry, but side by side instead of as a unit. Even in ballroom programs, where the lead-follow dynamic is important, their choreography skirts around it as much as possible. They're certainly not the only ones to do that - it's an epidemic right now in ice dance - but it's a noticeable aspect of ice dance difficulty that they aren't attempting.
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I think that is PC's problem - chemistry and their ability to skate together. He is a much stronger skater than she is and I always watch him. They don't have an iota of chemistry which is very difficult for a latin rhythm.
 
I

IloveFS

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Aussie Willy said:
I was responding to someone who commented that Guillaume is not a great male ice dancer and my comments were specifically about what I think of him as an ice dancer and why I think he is one of the best, if not the best male ice dancer I have seen. The only comment I made about Scott was I didn't think of him that way or that I wasn't interested in skating with him. Doesn't mean that my comment reduces this thread to looney bin status!
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I really like Guillame and would love to see him skate with someone else.....
 
Z

Zazy

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438
Aussie Willy said:
I was responding to someone who commented that Guillaume is not a great male ice dancer and my comments were specifically about what I think of him as an ice dancer and why I think he is one of the best, if not the best male ice dancer I have seen. The only comment I made about Scott was I didn't think of him that way or that I wasn't interested in skating with him. Doesn't mean that my comment reduces this thread to looney bin status!
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Just to clarify, I didn't mean Guillaume isn't a great ice dancer, I'm sorry if that's how it came across. It's more that he's amazing in so many ways except for his partnering which is just ok. Part of it is probably generational since it's being de-emphasized so much right now, it's a waste of time for young teams to put all that work into something that isn't rewarded.

Anyways I've been complaining about the pairs-ization of ice dance since long before P/C were ever on the scene. It's not about them specifically but I can't help but feel that there's a whole skill set being lost. I guess after losing the CDs it was the inevitable next step (but you'd think they could at least give +GOE for skating close together in hold! According to COP rules, this is not important :mad:)

End of rant lol. And may the 2018 ice dance event be well-skated with lots of happy teams coming off the ice. No Torino OD repeat!
 
Aussie Willy

Aussie Willy

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Zazy said:
Just to clarify, I didn't mean Guillaume isn't a great ice dancer, I'm sorry if that's how it came across. It's more that he's amazing in so many ways except for his partnering which is just ok. Part of it is probably generational since it's being de-emphasized so much right now, it's a waste of time for young teams to put all that work into something that isn't rewarded.

Anyways I've been complaining about the pairs-ization of ice dance since long before P/C were ever on the scene. It's not about them specifically but I can't help but feel that there's a whole skill set being lost. I guess after losing the CDs it was the inevitable next step (but you'd think they could at least give +GOE for skating close together in hold! According to COP rules, this is not important :mad:)

End of rant lol. And may the 2018 ice dance event be well-skated with lots of happy teams coming off the ice. No Torino OD repeat!
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No that is fine. I understand what you say. I might see that differently but I think you have explained what you meant.

I also think because they are such a good team, maybe we have much higher expectations too.

And I agree - no more frickin Torino ice dance. That year was a really sucky year for it.
 
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