I, Tonya

BaileyCatts said:
I watch the entertainment shows and I kinda agree with Elaine. I don't like the angle that the story is now taking. That poor Tonya is the victim here, lets all embrace her. Nancy is the only victim here. She was physically attacked and probably still lives with visions of that to this day, and then was, and still is, mocked for crying 'why, why' after being struck with a metal baton. A few inches lower he could have shattered her kneecap. But oh poor poor Tonya. She was so persecuted and everyone was against her, look at her awful life, blah blah blah. Lots of people have a bad, horrible, abusive, poverty filled life, and have to fight their way out of that to succeed, and they do (which, by the way, she also did). And now its like, oh Tonya, "we" (the collective 'we' as in society), were so wrong to treat you that way, you did nothing wrong, all those abusive people around you did this and you were just a poor innocent pawn. "We're" so sorry "we" treated you this way. (by the way .... let me finish my comments before you start tearing me apart!) ......

I'm sorry but I believe Tonya was fully involved in the planning of this from the start. In fact, I think it was her idea. I also believe it was her idea to phone in that death threat at Regionals so she wouldn't have to compete. And remember, I was a diehard supporter of Tonya at the time and was convinced she had nothing to do with it as it was all unfolding. Until the facts started coming out. I also believe a lot of the things she said about why she didn't speak up were lies, since something new seemed to pop up every time the story got rehashed. And the way she continues to lie about it even all these years later. Although I believe in her mind, she does believe what she says is the truth and she truly believes she had nothing to do with it.

In both the docu shows they would show a "here's the facts" and then show Tonya saying the complete opposite thing, and the way she said it you could tell she really believed what the was saying. I particularly love the part where they were talking to the Prosecutor about the notes found in the trash at the restaurant. They show Tonya saying "they tested that handwriting and it wasn't mine!". Cue the Prosecutor, "we tested the handwriting and it was Tonya's". For all her claims of "I apologized over and over", no, Tonya, you didn't. Saying "I'm sorry you got hurt; I'm sorry this happened to you" is not apologizing. And she has the nerve to be angry about the way she was portrayed in the media, she's not a villain, she's just as much a victim as Nancy? No, Tonya, you are not. And now its like she's becoming this anti-hero that should be embraced because she was so abused. Do I believe her mother and Jeff were abusive? Yes. Do I believe its as outrageous as Tonya claims? Somewhat, especially the stories about her mother since those were witnessed by other skaters, people at the rinks, etc. Do I believe all the things she said Jeff did to her, like the gun to the head, getting dragged into the woods and beaten, threatened that they would kill her? No. If they killed her or beat her (thus rendering her unable to skate), then there goes the perceived money train they were expecting. . .... (by the way .... let me finish my comments before you start tearing me apart!) .......

However ........ I do understand that this movie is just a movie. They exaggerated, added, omitted the basic facts of the story to create the screen play. Its not a documentary, its dark comedy, and written to portray exactly that, and showed the story from a "Tonya is a victim" angle. Probably half the people in that theater weren't even born yet when it happened, don't follow skating, or have no clue about what really happened other than what they just saw in that movie. Even Margot had no clue who Tonya Harding was. Hell the people who wrote the screenplay probably don't even know as much about the event as we all do. And really, unless you were a diehard skating fan, you probably did not follow the story the way we all did. It was just something on the news and in the cycle of life at the time. One of those pop culture moments in life that years later you go "oh yeah I remember when that happened". (.....still not done yet!) ......

Will I see the movie? Of course I will! I will probably get the DVD too. Its already getting nominated for a lot of awards and wouldn't it be fantastic if it got Oscar nods? And won Best Picture?! Absolutely! Anything to get skating into the news? Sure, why not. I just don't like how the overall tone in the media is shifting to poor Tonya, the victim, lets celebrate her and embrace her! Dear lord please don't let her end up on Dancing with the Stars so she can be "redeemed"! She was involved in a plot to physically attack her competitor so she could win the Gold (which was never going to happen with or without Nancy there with the way she was skating at the time). She permanently tarnished the sport (even though we did get the explosion of popularity because of it), and you don't get to be redeemed from that.

There ... I'm done. Blast away! Although I probably won't see it until after GPF is over so I don't run into spoilers. :p
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Dancing with the Stars - we're going to blame you if this comes to pass! The worst part is that I can absolutely see it happening!
 
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essence_of_soy said:
Damn.

I was hoping DWTS would invite Matt Lauer and Harvey Weinstein.
But part of their court - ordered community service, they have to dance in their underwear, and can only partner each other.
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I'm sure that was intended as a punishment, but I'm not certain that they wouldn't enjoy the opportunity. DWS would have to remove all the potted plants though otherwise Harvey will go for the big finish after every performance.
 
skatingguy said:
I'm sure that was intended as a punishment, but I'm not certain that they wouldn't enjoy the opportunity. DWS would have to remove all the potted plants though otherwise Harvey will go for the big finish after every performance.
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OMG. Took me a second to realise what you meant.

Maybe that's why every palm tree on Hollywood Boulevard looks like it is dying.
 
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AngieNikodinovLove said:
I WAS GONNA PUT THAT in my review.. I WAS SO EXCITED..

People r still having sex program /competition is IN THE MOVIE!!!!

OMG How I loved it back then.. I was basically 21ish and going to clubs and I LOVED that song... Other skaters were doing Vivaldi, etc... and she did instrumental version of People r still having sex...

I LOVED the production of that song SO MUCH!!!!!!
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Too bad the USFSA didn't announce what skaters were performing too like they did at Nationals two years later in 1996.
 
By the way .... anyone know what the results were of the Regionals that Tonya was required to skate in but didn't due to the death threat? If I am remembering correctly, they still held the competition but gave Tonya a pass to Nationals, isn't that right? I've tried searching and I am only coming up with recent years results.
 
BaileyCatts said:
By the way .... anyone know what the results were of the Regionals that Tonya was required to skate in but didn't due to the death threat? If I am remembering correctly, they still held the competition but gave Tonya a pass to Nationals, isn't that right? I've tried searching and I am only coming up with recent years results.
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The regionals was definitely held. It was an important part of the US qualifying structure for juvenile through senior levels in all disciplines that had enough entrants to hold a competition. (Northwest Pacific region has the fewest skaters covering the greatest land area, so often there are few or no entries in disciplines other than Ladies. And for the past decade or so pairs and dance teams have started their competition season at Sectionals because most regions had too few teams to hold a competition.)

I can't quickly find the full results of 1994 Northwest Pacifics either online or in the old Skating magazines I started receiving and keeping starting about that time when I rejoined USFSA as an adult.

Here's Sydne Vogel's Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydne_Vogel
It lists her as placing 1st in Novice at 1993-94 Northwest Regionals. (Not the correct name, but I take that as evidence that the event did indeed take place.)
 
BaileyCatts said:
By the way .... anyone know what the results were of the Regionals that Tonya was required to skate in but didn't due to the death threat? If I am remembering correctly, they still held the competition but gave Tonya a pass to Nationals, isn't that right? I've tried searching and I am only coming up with recent years results.
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They could of and should of given her a bye anyway due to past accomplishments- they would of done it for Kerrigan if Tonya had won in 93 ( if I was judging, the world team would of been Nicole, Tonya, and Tonia), and Kerrigan didn't make it. Ervin had the only almost clean skate of the night, but with her hardest jump being a 3 loop, she simply wasn't world-level caliber in my opinion.
I get tired of hearing Kerrigan was more consistent. She wasn't- most of her long programs prior to 94 were error filled. Even her 91 bronze worlds program wasn't that great ( I would of had Surya (and given credit for the quad) and Midori ahead of her- they did more.
 
I don’t think anybody said Kerrigan was consistent. What I’m tired about is how some Tonya sympathizers feel the need to make up ways as to how Kerrigan was favored. It’s like the actual facts aren’t enough and one needs to make up more things about Kerrigan to make Tonya look better and is just shy in finding ways to justify her whack. It’s very “yeah she shouldn’t have been whacked, but with the queen treatment she received compared to poor Tonya and her upbringing, do you blame Tonya and/or her people for planning it?”
 
There were multiple political forces that Tonya faced, but most people oversimplify the issue.

Tonya -
---------------------------
Con: No politically powerful coach
Con: Did not present the image the USFSA likes.
Con: Not favored by the Olympic Eligible tour promoter
Con: Unpredictable competitive performances (She might land 7 Triples including the 3A. She might land 3 Triples.)
Pro: Exceedingly talented

Trenary and Kerrigan -
----------------------------
Pro: Politically powerful coach
Pro: Presented the image the USFSA likes.
Pro: Favored by the Olympic Eligible tour promoter
Pro: Predictable competitive performances (We know what she can land, not much. Probably 4 triples, maybe 5)
Con: Talented enough

For thoroughness, let's include Yamaguchi.

Kristi-
----------------------------
Con: No politically powerful coach
Pro: Presented the image the USFSA likes.
Con: Not favored by the Olympic Eligible tour promoter
Pro: Predictable competitive performances (Will land 5 or 6 Triple but never the 3S or 3A)
Pro: More than talented enough
----------------------------

It is actually pretty easy to see why Kristi was successful. Her strengths were her ability and training.

Tonya has admitted, herself, that she would have trained harder and more consistently if she could do it over again, which probably would have allowed her to overcome all the strikes against her. People around sports love hard workers.
 
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It seems once Tonya met j her skating wasnt as good. Was too much of a distraction for her.

Can only wonder what may have been had she just focused on skating and only skating.

@bardtoob since Michelle was just coming on scene would you list all of those as PRO for her?
 
AngieNikodinovLove said:
@bardtoob since Michelle was just coming on scene would you list all of those as PRO for her?
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Yes!

Michelle Kwan -
--------------------------
Pro: Politically powerful coach
Pro: Presented the image the USFSA likes.
Pro: Favored by the Olympic Eligible tour promoter
Pro: Predictable competitive performances (She was going to land 5 to 7 triples.)
Pro: More than talented enough
--------------------------

Michelle was only 12 years old and still the most interesting skater to watch at 1993 US Nationals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htevMS0Vnyc

----------------

ETA: And proving, even in a thread called "I, Tonya", that every thread on FSU is really about Michelle Kwan.
 
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Everybody's tired. I'm tired of hearing that harding's wasted talent is her get out of jail free card. Lazy and ungrateful, she's supposed to be forgiven just because she could have done better but couldn't be arsed to try.

USFS is about results and it's all written down in black and white and not only were Nancy's results more consistant, but she apparently is to blame for her bosses not penalizing her for having a less surly attitude than Harding. Right. Because bosses always love the worker with the bad attitude.

And now we have the "favored by tour promoters" gem. Tours are about ticket sales. Are we now to belive that a more popular with the public Harding was held back, ticket sale loss et all, in favor of a less popular Kerrigan? It's all getting very "the moon landing was faked in a hollywood studio" if you ask me.
 
Golden Globe Nominations
Best Picture, Musical or Comedy (question for people who have seen the movie: Is this really a comedy? - black comedy?)
Margot Robbie - Best Actress, Motion Picture - Comedy
Allison Janney - Best Supporting Actress, Motion Picture
 
I suspect that those involved believe that it is.
Doing grievous harm to someone competing against you, certainly is not a "comedy" in any sense.
 
skatesindreams said:
I suspect that those involved believe that it is.
Doing grievous harm to someone competing against you, certainly is not a "comedy" in any sense.
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I haven't seen movie, but I understand that it covers a much larger period of Tonya's life than just the attack on Kerrigan, though they would hardly be the first make comedy out of it.
 
Nothing about her Tonya's life has ever been, "comedic".
I have been aware of her story/skating since the 1980's.
 
skatingguy said:
Is this really a comedy? - black comedy?)
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Because its a mockumentary I think it ended up here. Anyway all sorts of movies end up in the comedy category every year even when they shouldn't be. There have been serious debates about it. Some Studios will push for their actor/actress to go into comedy category because they think they can get an easier win there.

The Martian ended up in comedy which left everyone scratching their heads... but hey it won there....

@skatingguy Yes, you are correct. The attack is not the focus here. In fact its only referred to as "the incident" in the movie. This is all about Tonya's upbringing, the relationship with her mother and eventually meeting jeff.
 
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skatingguy said:
Is this really a comedy? - black comedy?)
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skatesindreams said:
Doing grievous harm to someone competing against you, certainly is not a "comedy" in any sense.
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I can't speak to this particular movie because I haven't seen it yet.

In the history of cinema, and theatre, there have been plenty of black comedies that involve violent crimes as subject matter.

Some have even been based, loosely or otherwise, on real-life events.

The musical Chicago comes to mind, as I believe I mentioned much earlier in this discussion.
 
My concern is that most viewers don't know enough to realize that the movie has little to do with what actually happened.
Margot Robbie doesn't even understand that.
 
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