U.S. Women [#2]: The Unbearable Lightness of Beijing

[olympic]

As has been said, Trenary and Thomas are World Champions, Chin and Kadavy are World medalists. No U.S. lady save one on one occasion over the past 15 seasons has medaled at an Olympics or Worlds.

CF DO matter because that was the context in which those women competed. They won World and Olympcs medals under the competitive format as it was then. CF are another variable in the equation for those women and they won and/or medalled at World events under those criteria. Winning then, required, in part, a different skill set. So yes, CF DO matter, particularly to the argument you were trying to make which is comparing Trenary, Thomas, Chin and Kadavy to the current generation of U.S. ladies. They are not comparable. That group of women medaled and won under the established criteria of their time. The current generation does not.

Your argument about fields being more competitive since 2006 is sort of true...some times...fields go up and down arbitrarily from one quad to another and citing Miki Ando as some criteria for 'level of greatness' for an era, doesn't help your argument. And the comparison isn't apples to apples, either because, again: CF, which means that there were some excellent skaters at CF that needed to be contended with, as well as excellent free skaters. So yes, I would contend that you are making broad generalizations about a particular set of women skaters from the past (Trenary, Thomas, Kadavy and Chin) without acknowledging the particular era in which they skated and the particular set of competitive criteria under which they competed, which are not the same as the U.S. women of today are competing against.

To your 1st paragraph, I would say that proves my point

To your 2nd paragraph, CF are irrelevant. Prior to IJS, all women were competing with CF and the US women beat them a lot of the time even if they made mistakes. Under IJS, everyone is competing under the same system and they don’t win. Why? because I believe the world has improved

Mike Ando is a x2 World Champ, did the 1st quad, and bested Yu Na and Mao. No US woman at the time could beat that. IYO if you feel I am generalizing. It’s OK

 

[olympic]

You ARE joking right, about CF "not being relevant" to your argument? Your argument was those 4 ladies rarely had clean long programs. Let me say this for you again: In that era, the VAST majority of a skater's time was spent training CFs! The competition was very stiff in that era, in the sport it was at the time. Again, the sport is VERY different now without CF, which free the skaters up to train jumps much more than they ever did in the past, and you sound utterly ridiculous for calling the US ladies "wobbly" in a decade in which they won a world medal every single year, had multiple ladies win the title (Fratianne, Zayak, Sumners, Thomas, and Trenary- 1990, the last year of CF), and multiple years in which the ladies won TWO world medals!

Take a pill wash it down with a martini, and enjoy my post above

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Take a pill wash it down with a martini, and enjoy my post above

I’ll have that martini if they don’t want it

 

[VGThuy]

Extra dry please with two olives.

 

[Vagabond]

Three measures of Gordon’s, one of vodka, half a measure of Kina Lillet. Shake it very well until it’s ice-cold, then add a large thin slice of lemon peel. Got it?

 

[Maximillian]

To your 1st paragraph, I would say that proves my point

That Trenary, Thomas, Kadavy and Chin are comparable to the current generation of U.S. ladies, which was the point I was arguing? (shrugs) okay...

 

[Maximillian]

Take a pill wash it down with a martini, and enjoy my post above

You do realize telling someone to 'calm down', doesn't win an argument, right? It just shows that you are patronizing and deflecting...

 

[olympic]

That Trenary, Thomas, Kadavy and Chin are comparable to the current generation of U.S. ladies, which was the point I was arguing? (shrugs) okay...

You do realize telling someone to 'calm down', doesn't win an argument, right? It just shows that you are patronizing and deflecting...

If you read my reply, I note that you are entitled to your opinion. As for the other poster, that person's post was a little emotional and that person needs to relax. Hence, my joke. I am not trying to win arguments on an FS board. C'est ridicule

 

[thvu]

If you read my reply, I note that you are entitled to your opinion. As for the other poster, that person's post was a little emotional and that person needs to relax. Hence, my joke. I am not trying to win arguments on an FS board. C'est ridicule

It was a “joke” is always the cowardly way of being condescending and patronizing, just FYI. It’s such an old, tired play @olympic , to try and frame the other side as “emotional” in order to invalidate their opinion, and using it to pretend you’re above it all.

You’re in the gutter just like the rest of us. Get. Over. Yourself.

 

[olympic]

It was a “joke” is always the cowardly way of being condescending and patronizing, just FYI. It’s such an old, tired play @olympic , to try and frame the other side as “emotional” in order to invalidate their opinion, and using it to pretend you’re above it all.

You’re in the gutter just like the rest of us. Get. Over. Yourself.

I am glad you know so much about me that you know when I am joking.

You need to read the post that I made light of. 'Emotional' was being kind.

 

[carriecmu0503]

To your 1st paragraph, I would say that proves my point

To your 2nd paragraph, CF are irrelevant. Prior to IJS, all women were competing with CF and the US women beat them a lot of the time even if they made mistakes. Under IJS, everyone is competing under the same system and they don’t win. Why? because I believe the world has improved

Mike Ando is a x2 World Champ, did the 1st quad, and bested Yu Na and Mao. No US woman at the time could beat that. IYO if you feel I am generalizing. It’s OK

This just proves that you are totally clueless and have no idea what you are talking about! 1990 was the last worlds in which compulsory figures were competed! IJS was not competed at worlds until 2005! Maybe know what you were talking about before you spout your mouth?

 

[carriecmu0503]

If you read my reply, I note that you are entitled to your opinion. As for the other poster, that person's post was a little emotional and that person needs to relax. Hence, my joke. I am not trying to win arguments on an FS board. C'est ridicule

So, people are emotional because they point out how you were factually incorrect? Wow. Clearly you are the one who needs to get a grip on your Almighty self!! Beyond that, Almighty one, since you seem to be the absolute know it all, why don’t you show us video of you demonstrating how it’s done?

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

@olympic I love your posts. Informed, even handed, wise.

 

[olympic]

So, people are emotional because they point out how you were factually incorrect? Wow. Clearly you are the one who needs to get a grip on your Almighty self!! Beyond that, Almighty one, since you seem to be the absolute know it all, why don’t you show us video of you demonstrating how it’s done?

Ok Histerica. I will sign off here by giving you half the peace sign. On ignore you go

 

[olympic]

@olympic I love your posts. Informed, even handed, wise.

Thanks. It's good that someone was seeing my point

 

[olympic]

I did a Wikisearch on the best ladies scores for the 2021-22 season post Euros. Surprisingly, Alysa holds the 5th highest score of those going to the Olympics

1. Kamila Valieva - 272.71
2. Anna Shcherbakova - 237.42
3. Alexandra Trusova - 234.36
- Elizaveta Tuktamysheva - 233.30 (I wonder if she has a shot considering her PB this year is awful close to Shcherbakova), and other RUS skaters, Akateva, Khromykh
7. Kaori Sakamoto - 223.34
8. Alysa Liu - 219.24
9. Louna Hendrickx - 219.05
- Daria Usacheva
11.Young You - 216.97

 

[Karen-W]

I did a Wikisearch on the best ladies scores for the 2021-22 season post Euros. Surprisingly, Alysa holds the 5th highest score of those going to the Olympics

1. Kamila Valieva - 272.71
2. Anna Shcherbakova - 237.42
3. Alexandra Trusova - 234.36
- Elizaveta Tuktamysheva - 233.30 (I wonder if she has a shot considering her PB this year is awful close to Shcherbakova), and other RUS skaters, Akateva, Khromykh
7. Kaori Sakamoto - 223.34
8. Alysa Liu - 219.24
9. Louna Hendrickx - 219.05
- Daria Usacheva
11.Young You - 216.97

LOL - that's her Lombardia score which had a lot of non-calls of her URs. Look at her Nebelhorn or GP scores for a more realistic idea of where she's going to place.

 

[VGThuy]

Who knows? Olympic callers may be generous.

 

[Karen-W]

Who knows? Olympic callers may be generous.

Sure, they'll have to be to ensure Russia sweeps...

 

[DreamSkates]

Sure, they'll have to be to ensure Russia sweeps...

If this year's Euros results are an indication of what we can see at the Olympics, please list scores of skaters who can beat the top 3 at Euros.

 

[Karen-W]

If this year's Euros results are an indication of what we can see at the Olympics, please list scores of skaters who can beat the top 3 at Euros.

It's not about the scores, it's about the correct calling, across the board, of URs and correct edges. If the tech panel is generous then ALL scores should rise accordingly. If not, then all scores should fall similarly. Unfortunately, #SkatingWithEteri is a real thing.

 

[mtnskater]

Just watched Isabeau Levito’s exhibition skate at U.S. Nationals. Glorious! A feast for my artistry starved eyes. Haven’t seen a skater move that beautifully in ages. No flailing, no slamming around the ice trying to get in as many movements as possible. Nothing garish or harsh. Definitely shades of Peggy Fleming. Just wow.

ETA: and more classical music….be still my heart.

 

[Sylvia]

Is it Kanon Smith? Why put her in the advanced novice girls category when she's junior age? The USFS had a TBD entry for junior women.

I just started a competition thread in Kiss & Cry for this coming week's Bavarian Open and Kanon Smith is listed among the Junior Women's entries (typo on USFS' International Assignments page) - glad to see she will make her Team USA international debut at last!

 

[Sylvia]

Fan Zone article on Mariah, Karen, Alysa (Jan. 12):

Bell, Chen and Liu Living Olympic Dream, But Head to Beijing with Something to Prove - U.S. Figure Skating Fan Zone

During the summer of 2021, Mariah Bell was at a low point.

usfigureskatingfanzone.com

 

[sheetz]

Mariah Bell and Tara Lipinski were guests on the Ellen Show and competed in a fun "Gold Medal Challenge."

https://youtu.be/E6tFTfsUPJM

 

[Coco]

That was hilarious.

 

[DreamSkates]

It's not about the scores, it's about the correct calling, across the board, of URs and correct edges. If the tech panel is generous then ALL scores should rise accordingly. If not, then all scores should fall similarly. Unfortunately, #SkatingWithEteri is a real thing.

I see what you mean, plus the IF.

 

[barbk]

I would hardly call Thomas or Trenary wobbly! They both WON worlds, and Thomas medaled at the Olympics. In 1986, Thomas won and Kadavy got the bronze. The US ladies either won the title or at least won a medal (or two) at every single world championships in the 80s. Most of the four ladies you mentioned won more than one medal at worlds. Hardly a wobbly time for US ladies skating!

Indeed. I spent many hours watching Kadavy practice at the World Arena. She had gorgeous technique. Trenary wasn't as impressive to me, but she had a lot of showmanship and a strong competitive head. (She also trained at the World Arena.) I only saw Thomas skate live at the CU rink, which is quite small, but even there she had tremendous power.

 

[barbk]

That Trenary, Thomas, Kadavy and Chin are comparable to the current generation of U.S. ladies, which was the point I was arguing? (shrugs) okay...

...because the current crop of US ladies has World or Olympic medals to their credit? Every one of the skaters you referenced won at least one world championship medal. Trenary and Thomas were world champions.

 

[concorde]

Just saw this and thought is interesting. Hopefully the link works.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/beijing-olympic-committee-testing-threshold-covid-19-1.6318270