U.S. Women [#2]: The Unbearable Lightness of Beijing

[Jarrett]

Isabeau's jump technique is clearly wonky. I hope she fixes it, so she can have a long, successful career.

That said, even if she doesn't fix it, I will continue to enjoy the wonderful qualities she does bring to the ice every time I watch her.

When was the last time someone actually fixed poor technique? I honestly can't think of many, maybe an axel jump here or there.

 

[On My Own]

When was the last time someone actually fixed poor technique? I honestly can't think of many, maybe an axel jump here or there.

Mao Asada.

 

[Coco]

Didn't Joannie Rochette change her Lutz jump?

 

[ross_hy]

I'm pretty sure Nathan received one of the Michael Weiss skating scholarships. Too bad it's no longer being offered and they stopped having the fundraiser shows around DC. Wouldn't it be nice if some of the most successful skaters had a scholarship program for young skaters who could really use the money.

It's a shame the foundation is no longer active, but I'm glad so many of today's skaters were able to get funding through their efforts. Does anyone know if there's other similar organizations outside of USFS that help raise money for skaters? I'm guessing a lot of people have moved on to GoFundMe, etc.

 

[On My Own]

Didn't Joannie Rochette change her Lutz jump?

That's not the most recent example - but if we're including them, Miki Ando also fixed her Lip.

 

[wickedwitch]

More recently, Kostornaia used to have an egregious flutz, but she fixed it. Her lutz today is excellent.

Medvedeva was also changing her jump technique, with some success. Had she not gotten injured, we might have seen revamped jumps from her, too.

 

[bladesofgorey]

I think Isabeau can fix her jump technique if she has specialists working with her starting, like, immediately because she is obviously very determined and hard working. Her jumps are going to have to change any way as she gets older to accommodate shifting centers of mass so I do think that as long as her coaching team cares about the issues and are determined to address them it can be possible. Of course the challenge there is that things will be broken for a while during the time they are being fixed so they'd need to do this in the off season and accept that maybe the first year of fixing will be kind of a wash competitively speaking while new timing and muscle memory gets established.

 

[Frau Muller]

I noticed today that USFS is listing "Smith (adv. novice)" for Bavarian Open.

2021-22 International Assignments and Results

2021-22 International Assignments and Results

usfigureskatingfanzone.com

Kanon Smith sighting! ?

 

[toddlj]

Kanon Smith sighting! ?

Yes! Still not sure why she had to miss nationals (injury?) but it would appear she is back!

 

[Wyliefan]

I think Isabeau can fix her jump technique if she has specialists working with her starting, like, immediately because she is obviously very determined and hard working. Her jumps are going to have to change any way as she gets older to accommodate shifting centers of mass so I do think that as long as her coaching team cares about the issues and are determined to address them it can be possible. Of course the challenge there is that things will be broken for a while during the time they are being fixed so they'd need to do this in the off season and accept that maybe the first year of fixing will be kind of a wash competitively speaking while new timing and muscle memory gets established.

What worries me is, if her coaching team taught her that technique in the first place, do they realize that it needs to be fixed?

 

[Karen-W]

Kanon Smith sighting! ?

Is it Kanon Smith? Why put her in the advanced novice girls category when she's junior age? The USFS had a TBD entry for junior women.

 

[On My Own]

I think Isabeau can fix her jump technique if she has specialists working with her starting, like, immediately because she is obviously very determined and hard working.

I think this key word will affect her a lot, as it ended up doing with Alysa...

 

[bladesofgorey]

What worries me is, if her coaching team taught her that technique in the first place, do they realize that it needs to be fixed?

A concern, but I'm sure at this point it's been mentioned or will be mentioned at champs camps, by judges, etc. I guess whether they decide to address it or ignore it is to be seen, but I'm sure by now they've heard the almost universal criticisms.

 

[toddlj]

Is it Kanon Smith? Why put her in the advanced novice girls category when she's junior age? The USFS had a TBD entry for junior women.

She's 14, so she can skate advanced novice. Maybe they wanted a lower-pressure situation for her?

Kanon Smith - Figure Skating - U.S. Figure Skating Fan Zone

Kanon Smith (81) She/Her - CAREER ACCOMPLISHMENT U.S. junior silver medalist (2021) U.S. juvenile champion (2019) 2021-22 SEASON NOTES SP Music: Music from

usfigureskatingfanzone.com

 

[Frau Muller]

Is it Kanon Smith? Why put her in the advanced novice girls category when she's junior age? The USFS had a TBD entry for junior women.

I hope that it is! Sure, “Smith” is a common name…but how many gifted American little-girl skaters with that name could there be? She was, what, eleven when she skated Mary Poppins at Jr Natls a year ago & beat the older Clare Seo for the silver? I missed her this year!

 

[Jammers]

Why would Kanon Smith be skating in advanced novice considering she was a Junior at Nationals last year?

 

[Jarrett]

Mao Asada.

Is there a comparison of Mao jumps before and after this change? I remember commentators talking about working on her technique but never saw much improvements and lost most of her loop combos in the process.

 

[Jarrett]

More recently, Kostornaia used to have an egregious flutz, but she fixed it. Her lutz today is excellent.

Medvedeva was also changing her jump technique, with some success. Had she not gotten injured, we might have seen revamped jumps from her, too.

https://youtu.be/v4DvLT3mQwU I don't see a great Lutz.

 

[On My Own]

Is there a comparison of Mao jumps before and after this change? I remember commentators talking about working on her technique but never saw much improvements and lost most of her loop combos in the process.

I don't - but compare her toe loop take off between 2004-06 to the toe loop take off she did between 2006-08, and then for the rest of her career.

Her Lutz take off before Sochi, to the ones after her comeback, especially 2016-17 Japanese Nationals.

The rest is probably harder to notice, but these take-off changes are apparent, IMO.

+3Loops had less to do with her technique, and more to do with growth. No one consistently rotates +3Loops after they reach a certain stage of growth, man or woman. She still attempted them and had some ratified after Vancouver.

 

[layman]

When was the last time someone actually fixed poor technique? I honestly can't think of many, maybe an axel jump here or there.

I was so impressed by Caroline Zhang. She fixed her 3-flip and her 2-axel, got more height in all her jumps and even added (as a senior) the 3-loop/3-loop, a combo that she did not have as a junior. I have never seen a skater work harder (to improve her technique).

 

[soogar]

What worries me is, if her coaching team taught her that technique in the first place, do they realize that it needs to be fixed?

I don't think coaches teach faulty technique. It's more that she may be doing it do to nerves or just pushing to get the triple jump.

 

[layman]

I don't think coaches teach faulty technique. It's more that she may be doing it do to nerves or just pushing to get the triple jump.

I think some coaches do teach faulty technique, especially when they try to rush a young skater into getting more rotations quickly (without giving them solid fundamentals). It's like a short cut. It works for a moment, but it all falls apart when the skaters grow.

The Eteri school don't even try to teach proper technique and rely on these shortcuts to rush the development of the skaters, since they intend to use and discard the skaters BEFORE they grow. Alternatively, the Eteri school just poach skaters who were taught strong technique by other coaches (and then take credit for it).

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

What about something that’s even harder a skater that fixes their presentation or PCS or second mark? In the best example I can think of is AngelaNikodinov

I think you can teach technique easier than you can teach someone artistry and artistic skills. That I think you’re born with. I feel like your soul can interpret music more than you’re able to teach someone to do it and your body moves how it moves so it’s hard to teach improved movement but it is possible.

What do you guys think about skaters who drastically changed their artistry?

 

[On My Own]

Lots of artistry, especially in figure skating, is based in technique and athleticism.

 

[Wyliefan]

Well, Michelle Kwan famously did it!

 

[tylersf]

This explains why U.S. ladies skating is where it is internationally at the moment.

Eteri seems to have a system similar to the Karolyi model in gymnastics. Pick them small, keep them small (unless you're Rhonda Faehn, big, but talented and powerful) and promote them to judges and fans.

It seems like developing good basics, strong technique over a period of time and competitive programs are not considered a favorable strategy right now. People seem to feel the pressure to develop phenoms at a young age whose technique doesn't hold up over time.

In the USA, we've seen skaters who have success and titles early on, but didn't translate in the senior ranks, similar to the Eteri female skaters.

Would it be such a radical thing to develop skaters who will be internationally competitive over a long period of time, rather than cranking out young skaters whose careers expire when they reach puberty?

 

[layman]

What about something that’s even harder a skater that fixes their presentation or PCS or second mark? In the best example I can think of is AngelaNikodinov

I think you can teach technique easier than you can teach someone artistry and artistic skills. That I think you’re born with. I feel like your soul can interpret music more than you’re able to teach someone to do it and your body moves how it moves so it’s hard to teach improved movement but it is possible.

What do you guys think about skaters who drastically changed their artistry?

Carolina Kostner and Michelle Kwan both famously improved their artistry (and second mark). When I look at You Tubes of them when they were juniors, I see really, really strong fundamentals and strong mechanics in all the technical aspects of figure skating (speed, use of correct edges, great jumping mechanics, great spinning technique etc.) but I don't see a lot of artistic refinement (at that stage in their careers) Then Lori Nichol got hold of both young women and the rest is her-story.

 

[layman]

Would it be such a radical thing to develop skaters who will be internationally competitive over a long period of time, rather than cranking out young skaters whose careers expire when they reach puberty?

You mean like Mishin did with Elizaveta Tuktymusheva? Yes...it's an approach that works!

 

[mtnskater]

I don't think coaches teach faulty technique. It's more that she may be doing it do to nerves or just pushing to get the triple jump.

I though Isabeau’s jumps looked much better in practice at Nationals. She wasn’t slower and bent over as much. In the competition it was as if she was slowing them down a bit and being extra careful. They looked more effortless on the two practices I saw live. She was extremely impressive on the practices in all respect. I felt like she clearly won them.

 

[VGThuy]

Eteri seems to have a system similar to the Karolyi model in gymnastics. Pick them small, keep them small (unless you're Rhonda Faehn, big, but talented and powerful) and promote them to judges and fans.

It seems like developing good basics, strong technique over a period of time and competitive programs are not considered a favorable strategy right now. People seem to feel the pressure to develop phenoms at a young age whose technique doesn't hold up over time.

In the USA, we've seen skaters who have success and titles early on, but didn't translate in the senior ranks, similar to the Eteri female skaters.

Would it be such a radical thing to develop skaters who will be internationally competitive over a long period of time, rather than cranking out young skaters whose careers expire when they reach puberty?

That's very true. After Torino, we had a slew of Ladies Junior World Champions and medalists who would win medals and competitions internationally on the junior level. You'd think they'd be able to replicate that success once they became senior, but we saw what happened. It turns out our Gracie Gold/Ashley Wagner team really was a blessing because they were always on the cusp of the podium, would win competitions, and Ashley ended up medaling at Worlds once. And we gave them both such a hard time at the time.