U.S. Pairs 2019-20 season - News & Updates, Part X

olympic

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,234
Unfortunately, IMO K/O needed something better here to set themselves up for a crack at something like a 4CCs assignment, and throw themselves into the conversation domestically. I don't think they have the goods this year to make the Worlds team. As it is, they lag C/J in international scoring. I do hope they pull it together for their next GP.
 

Jammers

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,500
It's a bit of a mystery why K/O get such big scores at Nationals. Internationally they don't get the same scores and you can see why comparing them to the top Pairs teams. They don't have the speed, SS or big tricks such as a huge 3twist or throws even compared to some of the top US teams.
 

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
Messages
59,206
Pairs Final next week in Dallas area (U.S. Sectionals competitions thread is started in Kiss & Cry section: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/2019-20-us-singles-sectionals-and-pairs-dance-finals-nov-12-16-2019.106346/ ):

Senior (8): Serafini/Tran, Chan/Howe, Mokhova/Mokhov, Pfund/Santillan, Lockley/Prochnow, Timlen/Highgate-Brutman, Brynne McIsaac/Mark Sadusky (new), Cassie Andrews/Dustin Sierk (new; registered for Skate Detroit but did not compete)

Junior (13):
6 teams are in the ISP:
Kate Finster / Balazs Nagy (2 JGPs, 1 silver)
Isabelle Martins / Ryan Bedard (2 JGPs)
Anastasiia Smirnova / Danil Siianytsia (1 JGP)
Cate Fleming / Jedidiah Isbell
Grace Knoop / Blake Eisenach
Winter Deardorff / Mikhail Johnson (new; added after Middle Atlantics club comp.)

Sarah Burden / Jake Pagano
Sydney Cooke / Timmy Chapman (new)
Sydney Flaum / Alex Wellman (new)
Analise Gonzalez / Franz-Peter Jerosch (new)
Evelyn Grace Hanns / Jim Garbutt (new)
Ellie McClellan / Matthew Rounis (new)
Arianna Varvoutis / Derrick Griffin (new)

Senior Pairs byes to Nationals (7):
Ashley Cain & Timothy LeDuc
Jessica Calalang & Brian Johnson (Warsaw Cup next week)
Haven Denney & Brandon Frazier
Nica Digerness & Danny Neudecker (Warsaw Cup next week)
Tarah Kayne & Danny O’Shea (NHK Trophy)
Audrey Lu & Misha Mitrofanov (Rostelecom Cup next week)
Alexa Scimeca-Knierim & Chris Knierim (NHK Trophy)
 
Last edited:

semogal

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,664
One of my favorite things about K/O was seeing Jim Peterson at the boards and the K&C. Miss him since their move to Colorado. Who is he coaching this season?
 

olympic

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,234
I see that L/M are still on the roster for RC next week. I assume they are over what kept them out of Finlandia? I like their spunk and hope the have a good set of performances in Russia
 

wickedwitch

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,586
Both of K/O's programs are really bad, probably the two worst competative programs they've had in their career. They need to go back to either Bourne or Bloomberg. I don't know why they'd switch choreographers when they had so much success with Bourne. Unless they like relying on other teams making multiple mistakes for them to qualify for Worlds....
 

AngieNikodinovLove

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,747
Both of K/O's programs are really bad, probably the two worst competative programs they've had in their career. They need to go back to either Bourne or Bloomberg. I don't know why they'd switch choreographers when they had so much success with Bourne. Unless they like relying on other teams making multiple mistakes for them to qualify for Worlds....
and their score on the 3 twist has gotten worse.
 

olympic

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,234
I thought about it more. I think they moved to Dalilah to increase their amplitude on those explosive elements: Bigger throws and twist and it seemed like a safe bet because they already have an understanding of music / choreography and SBS jumps, something you don't necessarily get from Dalilah. However, as has been pointed out, the twist and the throws don't seem to be working. I don't necessarily blame Dalilah. Perhaps Tarah is still trying or is having trouble handling the powerful torque of big landings from big throws. And yes @wickedwitch the music especially in the LP is pretty hideous, watching mistakes in an LP w/ Anne Hathaway weeping in the background is pretty cringeworthy.
 

just tuned in

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,849
Pairs Final next week in Dallas area (U.S. Sectionals competitions thread is started in Kiss & Cry section: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/2019-20-us-singles-sectionals-and-pairs-dance-finals-nov-12-16-2019.106346/ ):

Senior (8): Serafini/Tran, Chan/Howe, Mokhova/Mokhov, Pfund/Santillan, Lockley/Prochnow, Timlen/Highgate-Brutman, Brynne McIsaac/Mark Sadusky (new), Cassie Andrews/Dustin Sierk (new; registered for Skate Detroit but did not compete)

Junior (13):
6 teams are in the ISP:
Kate Finster / Balazs Nagy (2 JGPs, 1 silver)
Isabelle Martins / Ryan Bedard (2 JGPs)
Anastasiia Smirnova / Danil Siianytsia (1 JGP)
Cate Fleming / Jedidiah Isbell
Grace Knoop / Blake Eisenach
Winter Deardorff / Mikhail Johnson (new; added after Middle Atlantics club comp.)

Sarah Burden / Jake Pagano
Sydney Cooke / Timmy Chapman (new)
Sydney Flaum / Alex Wellman (new)
Analise Gonzalez / Franz-Peter Jerosch (new)
Evelyn Grace Hanns / Jim Garbutt (new)
Ellie McClellan / Matthew Rounis (new)
Arianna Varvoutis / Derrick Griffin (new)

Senior Pairs byes to Nationals (7):
Ashley Cain & Timothy LeDuc
Jessica Calalang & Brian Johnson (Warsaw Cup next week)
Haven Denney & Brandon Frazier
Nica Digerness & Danny Neudecker (Warsaw Cup next week)
Tarah Kayne & Danny O’Shea (NHK Trophy)
Audrey Lu & Misha Mitrofanov (Rostelecom Cup next week)
Alexa Scimeca-Knierim & Chris Knierim (NHK Trophy)
Will all pairs go to Nationals? (I cannot see USFSA cutting 1 jr team.)
 

aftershocks

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,888
I hope they bring it in the LP because all of SK/K, CG/L and D/F are moving ahead of them on the domestic front and C/J are not far behind them even with big mistakes.
Exactly. I admire K/O for their grit and competitive fire. They have to work on increasing speed, continuing to improve their twist and developing more pop on their elements overall. With the right program, like they had with Swan Lake, they can still make an impact. But it will be difficult to prevail with C-G/LD, D/F, and the Knierims placing higher on the GP and looking stronger on their elements, aside from the jumps. It all has to be battled out and figured out on the ice at 2020 U.S. Nationals.

Ash/Timothy have to reload and get back on track with their confidence. The Knierims, D/F and C/J simply have to start making their sbs jumps work for them and eliminate occasional inconsistency on their throws, because all these teams have top quality programs and very competitive elements with twists, boffo lifts, excellent death spirals, and generally good spins too, as well as speed.
 

aftershocks

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,888
It's a bit of a mystery why K/O get such big scores at Nationals.
It's not a mystery. But nothing stays static. Everything is always changing, and it's not always easy to improve at the rate necessary to remain competitive. I think it's obvious that K/O are good competitors with generally consistent sbs jumps. They've never had a lot of speed, and they lack pop on their elements, but they are gritty and determined. A few years ago, the Knierims and D/F were trying to come back from serious illness/ injury and K/O took up some of that slack and shined at U.S. Nats when the Knierims were faltering.

Then new teams (Cain/LeDuc and Stellato/Bartholomay) formed and eventually took the place of Castelli/Tran who never quite put it altogether (especially not with the jumps), despite having speed, good lifts and twist, and a smooth, engaging style together. S/B have now split and Stellato is seeking her pairs fortunes with Deschamps in Canada. Cain-Gribble/LeDuc have prospered under Mozer's tutelage, but are undergoing some hiccoughs in the early part of this season. D/F are coming alive under John Z with good programs two seasons in a row, and an exciting revamp of Lion King fp this season. With two bronze medals unexpectedly on the GP, will D/F have the advantage of making the World team post U.S. Nationals?

At this point, I think C-G/LD, the Knierims, and D/F are the early favorites for 4CCs, unless one of those teams pass on going, which would allow C/J or K/O the opportunity.

BTW, a lot of the pairs teams at CoC made mistakes, but K/O aren't being looked at kindly by the judges. K/O got hammered on the fall and the slight touchdown by Tarah with her free leg on the other throw that the judges apparently caught on replay. It's too bad K/O dropped a couple of points behind Ryom/Kim in the fp since R/K weren't great in their sp. But R/K do have a bit stronger elements than K/O when skating well. If Tarah hadn't fallen on one of the throws and touched her foot down on the other, they would have remained at least in 5th place.

K/O don't have strong enough weapons and no compelling statement program this season with which to capitalize on the mistakes by the teams ahead of them. Tarah has also had to deal with coming back from injury, which can hamper trying to make steady improvements.

It's all about rep, and what have you done lately. Let's not forget that K/O are 2018 4CCs champs. Their Swan Lake program made a great impact for them and got them noticed. But without more significant improvements with their speed, elements and programs, they are being overshadowed a bit at this juncture. I still wouldn't count them out competitively for the long haul though.
 
Last edited:

aftershocks

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,888
I don't know why they'd switch choreographers when they had so much success with Bourne.
We don't know that K/O necessarily switched voluntarily. It could have just been a one-time choreo contract. Bourne and Zukiwsky worked with K/O on the Swan Lake program a couple of seasons ago, since they've used it more than one season as I recall. Bourne might be busy and thus might not have had the time to work with K/O again. Or perhaps K/O don't have the resources to hire her again. Plus Zukiwsky has a new position with Skate Canada and probably isn't focusing on choreo work with Bourne at the moment.

There's a lot fans don't know and don't understand. Our solution suggestions don't take into account any number of factors we aren't privy to knowing about.
 

aftershocks

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,888
With all those pairs entered at Midwestern Sectionals, what's the rule on placement for U.S. Nationals?
 

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
Messages
59,206
With all those pairs entered at Midwestern Sectionals, what's the rule on placement for U.S. Nationals?
Pairs are competing together for the first time in one place (along with Mids singles final near Dallas) to qualify for Nationals (all ice dance teams are all competing in the same location as the Eastern Sectional singles final; I can post IDC's link/compilation of teams in the U.S. Ice Dance news thread later for those without access to the Kiss & Cry section where the U.S. Sectionals Singles/Pairs & Dance Finals competition thread has been started).

ETA:

Since there are just 8 Senior pairs listed as competing in the Final, they all can qualify as long as the teams that still need the new required minimum TES combined score for Nationals get the score at the Final (see my post below).

Junior pairs do not need a minimum score for Nationals; top 12 teams will advance.
 
Last edited:

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
Messages
59,206
From earlier in this thread:
The new required minimum TES combined (SP+FS in same competition) score for 2020 U.S. Nationals is 68. These 9 teams are qualified in that respect:

Ashley Cain & Timothy LeDuc
Alexa Scimeca-Knierim & Chris Knierim
Haven Denney & Brandon Frazier
Tarah Kayne & Danny O’Shea
Jessica Calalang & Brian Johnson
Audrey Lu & Misha Mitrofanov
Olivia Serafini & Mervin Tran
Nica Digerness & Danny Neudecker
Maria Mokhova & Ivan Mokhov

These two teams have had injuries this summer and have not competed at full strength yet:
Laiken Lockley & Keenan Prochnow
Allison Timlen & Justin Highgate-Brutman
I'm told Jessica Pfund & Joshua Santillan have the minimum score for Nationals (they competed at the SW Florida Fall Classic last month in their home rink). So they are the 10th team.
...
This new pair [Brynne McIsaac/Mark Sadusky] needs to get the minimum score for Nationals at the Pairs Final:
ETA that the new pair of Emily Chan/Spencer Howe attained the 68 minimum TES at the Midwestern Sectional Pairs Challenge last month.
 
Last edited:

aftershocks

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,888
^^ Ah so, all of these pairs are competing at one sectionals, but some of them have already qualified to compete at U.S. Nationals? So therefore, there isn't a Nationals entry number cut-off based on placement results at the competition?

I suppose it makes sense particularly for pairs to compete together at one sectionals due to not as many pairs entries in separate regions.

I haven't been paying attention to these new organizational rules and developments regarding regional and sectional competitions, and minimums for Nationals competition.

So there will probably be even more senior pairs competing this year at Nationals than last year. I think that's a good sign of the robust health of the pairs discipline in the U.S.
 
Last edited:

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
Messages
59,206
^^ Ah so, all of these pairs are competing at one sectionals, but some of them have already qualified to compete at U.S. Nationals? So therefore, there isn't a Nationals entry number cut-off based on placement results at the competition?
Refer to the "ETA" note I've since added to my post #378 above.
Senior (8): Serafini/Tran, Chan/Howe, Mokhova/Mokhov, Pfund/Santillan, Lockley/Prochnow, Timlen/Highgate-Brutman, Brynne McIsaac/Mark Sadusky (new), Cassie Andrews/Dustin Sierk (new; registered for Skate Detroit but did not compete)
I found Andrews/Sierk's joint IG account: https://www.instagram.com/andrews_and_sierk/?hl=en (links to their FB page which was started in January 2019).

Trivia: Cassie Andrews previously skated with Nicholas Anderson (Juvenile to Novice from 2004–2009 in Indiana, winning 3 national titles together at each of those 3 levels) and then Timothy LeDuc for 2 seasons (2010–2011 in Junior & 2011–2012 in Senior): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassie_Andrews

Dustin Sierk previously competed with his sister, Megan, representing the Huntsville (AL) FSC, in Junior Pairs at U.S. Nationals in 1998 (7th), 1999 (bronze medal) and 2000 (pewter medal).
 

aftershocks

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,888
^^ Yes, I remember Timothy LeDuc used to skate with Cassie Andrews. She was partnered with Timothy when he placed third in junior pairs behind champions Ashley Cain/ Joshua Reagan at 2011 U.S. Nationals. :)

That was a great junior pairs competition which also included Calalang/Sidhu; Haven Denney/ Daniel Raad; Mandy Garza/ Brandon Frazier; Brynn Carman/ AJ Reiss (he eventually paired with his girlfriend Erika Smith); Olivia Oltmanns/ Joshua Santillan; and silver medalists Andrea Poapst/ Chris Knierim...

Soon after this competition, Haven and Brandon realized they needed to get back together, since they were obviously made for each other. :D They'd only split up (as they recently explained) due to Haven's family having relocated to Florida while Brandon remained in Colorado.
 

clairecloutier

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,676
Dignerness/Neudecker update: They are recovering from neck and ankle injuries.

 

aftershocks

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,888
WOW, C&J Lead the Pairs SP at Warsaw!!! How amazing is this... Almost 70 points.

CANT even remember the last time a new USA team had such a stellar result

@aftershocks you must be pleased as punch!
I just found out about the pairs result in the sp at Warsaw Cup in the general pairs thread. :)

Here's C/J's sp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcpEUfVwAZI :encore:
Audio is a bit tinny, but it's nice to have a video; very well-skated, aside from slight negative GOE on the sbs spins. I think their PCS should be higher on SS, CO, and IN

It looks like C/J's strategy was to open with their sbs 3-salchows instead of performing them partway into the program. Compare from the Skate Detroit sp performance in their season's debut:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXyTm2ER9Zo
They landed the 3-salchows at Skate Detroit midway, with only a slight lean forward by Brian. But re-positioning the 3-salchows worked well at Warsaw Cup! It's a very lovely program to Game of Thrones theme song, choreographed by Benoit Richaud...
 

oleada

Well-Known Member
Messages
41,839
The Russian pair are not the best jumpers. With two jumping passes in the free, C&J have an excellent opportunity to win this!
Pepeleva/Pleshkov are not bad jumpers, but probably kept the 2A in the SP from juniors, where it’s the required jump. They qualified to the JGPF and juniors is their main focus this season. Like many junior pairs, they’re prone to a lot of inconsistency and have had some epic meltdowns this season already. They tend to go for both the 3T and 3S in the LP. Calalang/Johnson are not exactly consistent with the jumps either but I would agree they’re the big favorites here.
 
Top