U.S. Men 2022-23 news & updates

Karen-W

Neither sexy nor sultry, but loving life!
Messages
26,639
I completely agree with this. Given what Ilia is doing in his skating, it will take a thoughtful approach to training, good pacing, and some luck (to be honest) to make it through the Olympiad. Especially since he's obviously still growing, so at high risk for overuse injuries (and already having injury issues).

Unless he's required to do a certain event based on rules, funding requirements, or contractual aspects, he and his team have every right to make decisions that are in their own best interest, whether those considerations are physical, financial, or mental.

Really, it's a major factor for all the guys doing multiple quads all the time.
Really, where was all this screaming and complaining in the Japanese news thread when Kagiyama withdrew from the ENTIRE Grand Prix Series this fall due to injury? He's not much older than Ilia and surely he wants to make it through the next Olympiad with his quads intact too...
 

Frau Muller

From Puerto Rico…With Love!
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19,574
Really, where was all this screaming and complaining in the Japanese news thread when Kagiyama withdrew from the ENTIRE Grand Prix Series this fall due to injury? He's not much older than Ilia and surely he wants to make it through the next Olympiad with his quads intact too...

Did Yuma forego a skating competition to do a concert with Rag n Bone Man in Switzerland? Compare apples to apples.
 

Theatregirl1122

Needs a nap
Messages
28,233
Unless he's required to do a certain event based on rules, funding requirements, or contractual aspects, he and his team have every right to make decisions that are in their own best interest, whether those considerations are physical, financial, or mental.

I thought we were all supposed to make decisions in the interest of... being respectful of the fact that Australia couldn't find a venue for the event.
 

thvu

Usova's Apprentice
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7,237
I think it's worth reminding people that the choreography for one long program can cost up to $20k, and that a costume can cost $5k+. This is by no means a cheap sport, and we should in no way be trying to claim a skater doesn't "need the money". (And I can't imagine what the costs are for doctors that specialize in sports injuries and rehabilitation.)

This sport is a money loser for the vast majority of athletes. $100k+ yearly profits don't come until you've won major championships and medals.
 

Trillian

Well-Known Member
Messages
769
I think it's worth reminding people that the choreography for one long program can cost up to $20k, and that a costume can cost $5k+.

This is also why I think it’s worth pausing a moment before people complain about skaters keeping the same programs for multiple seasons, FWIW. I remember a while back, hearing a smaller fed skater describe alternating getting a new SP and a new FS every other year because that was what they could afford. Obviously it’s not the case every time someone reuses a program… but it is something I keep in mind.
 

sheetz

Well-Known Member
Messages
673
I think it's worth reminding people that the choreography for one long program can cost up to $20k, and that a costume can cost $5k+. This is by no means a cheap sport, and we should in no way be trying to claim a skater doesn't "need the money". (And I can't imagine what the costs are for doctors that specialize in sports injuries and rehabilitation.)

This sport is a money loser for the vast majority of athletes. $100k+ yearly profits don't come until you've won major championships and medals.
It's not a simple matter of money vs no money. (Obviously all skaters need money.) It's a matter of weighing the importance of that show income versus the experience gained from competing against your main rivals.

BTW, there is prize money for doing well at 4CC, too. $21,000 for the winner!
 

tony

The older, the crankier
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14,896
First and foremost, I don't know why people are surprised that potentially top skaters are skipping 4CC. If it's not them skipping, then oftentimes it is countries not always sending their (full) Worlds teams so that other skaters can get ranking points and further assignments. This is nothing new. @Frau Muller knows this but just wants to be dramatic.

There's also no guarantee that skating more competitions helps any particular skater with their nerves or their capability to deliver. "But he needs more experience" is an opinion, not a fact. Maybe getting out in front of audiences, in any capacity, can also help to settle nerves or gain confidence. Or maybe it's a nice departure from the typical week of competition.
It's not a simple matter of money vs no money. (Obviously all skaters need money.) It's a matter of weighing the importance of that show income versus the experience gained from competing against your main rivals.
But again, there's no guarantee that Japan will send their 3 Worlds entrants to the event anyways.
 

tony

The older, the crankier
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14,896
I’m waiting for the world to get real and realize that 4CC is extremely important…even more than Euros, nowadays. This shouldn’t be the little testing event to send kids with pink Hummers. 😉
First and foremost, the event should be determined to be important to the skater who has the option of competing in it. Not to the fans that demand they skate in such events-- and if not they must be spoiled brats. The ISU does not require World team members to attend-- they simply require skaters who have reached the minimums for their country and get nominated.
 

sheetz

Well-Known Member
Messages
673
But again, there's no guarantee that Japan will send their 3 Worlds entrants to the event anyways.
Sure, but I think they would have announced their team by the time US Nationals came around. Doesn't Japan announce their 4CC team after JNats?
 

Frau Muller

From Puerto Rico…With Love!
Messages
19,574
First and foremost, the event should be determined to be important to the skater who has the option of competing in it. Not to the fans that demand they skate in such events-- and if not they must be spoiled brats. The ISU does not require World team members to attend-- they simply require skaters who have reached the minimums for their country and get nominated.

I know! I just find it sad for the sport, in its current state.
 

Trillian

Well-Known Member
Messages
769
It's not a simple matter of money vs no money. (Obviously all skaters need money.) It's a matter of weighing the importance of that show income versus the experience gained from competing against your main rivals.

But as others have pointed out repeatedly, it’s likely more complicated than either of those two things, and it’s also none of our business.

And the whole concept of “experience” is a more complicated thing than just more = better. Ilia has already competed enough at the senior level to know the ropes and be aware of what his competitors are doing. The general experience of competing in a lot of competitions over a long period of time is valuable, but one single event doesn’t move the needle much on its own for most skaters. More importantly, though, not every experience is a good experience. If a skater isn’t ready for an event physically, psychologically, etc, for any reason, there’s also the possibility of negative fallout.

If someone decides not to do an event, they have reasons. Nobody is obligated to say yes to everything.
 

SkateFanBerlin

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,316
It’s not his first season- he was at senior worlds last year. Don’t you remember the drama that he didn’t go to the Olympics after placing 2nd at US Nationals? And I’m pretty sure that his coaches, parents and the USFS all have had input about this decision. I think it is wise not to push him too hard.

And who knew fans cared this much about the 4CCs? Who can even remember who won last year?
nothin' else to talk about. How we go back to Karen Chen from 2 months ago?
 

tony

The older, the crankier
Messages
14,896
FWIW, I saw Ilia's photo & name displayed in the Program section of AOI's website the other day (when I created the GSD event thread) but it's not there now: https://www.artonice.com/en/program/

I was wondering why his appearance hasn't been added to Art on Ice's Instagram account yet (like K/F's and Jason's were): https://www.instagram.com/artonicemagic/
He saw Frau's comment, cried himself into a nap, and then called Switzerland to give them the bad news that he must compete at the prestigious 4CC.
 

Frau Muller

From Puerto Rico…With Love!
Messages
19,574
HaHa Rag n Bone Man?
Yeah! There’s even a skating link - Rag’n’Bone sang this song, skated by Brezina:


I had never heard of Rag’n’Bone until this Art on Ice ad.

UPDATE: So Ilia’s name is no longer in the AoI ad. Yeah! Uh…I think that Ilia’s mother won the first 4CCs. It may be somewhat important to the family!
 
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Seerek

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,727
The ISU has had mixed results with the participation of top athletes for the Four Continents events in its other disciplines this fall. A lot of it may relate to finding a good place in the calendar to host the event.

In short track speed skating, most of the top athletes attended the 4CC event in Salt Lake City in November, as there was a World Cup event taking place at the same venue the following week.

In comparison, a lot of top athletes (most of the US team in particular) did not attend the long track speed skating 4CC event in Quebec City in early December, opting to rest for the World Cup events the following 2 back-to-back weeks in Calgary.

I would think February in a non-Olympic year is just about the right timing to hold 4CC, no?
 

Allskate

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,001
If Jason isn’t in the top three at nationals, they shouldn’t put him on the team. If he’s in the top three, they probably should, because nobody else managed to do a lot with the fall season besides Ilia. I really don’t think it’s going to be as ambiguous enough to warrant all this speculation.
It doesn't take ambiguity to have a prolonged, drawn out, and repetitive argument about whether Jason should be on a team - whether it's before or after the team assignment. ;) I think U.S. Figure Skating is probably thrilled that he is competing at Nationals and will make a decision about Worlds that will result in some people being mad no matter what.
I don’t know anything about Art On Ice except that a lot of people in Europe seem to get excited about it, but it’s high profile enough that it seems like a good opportunity for the skaters to perform without competitive pressure. That aspect of figure skating has a long and well-established history, too.
I would love to see Art on Ice (including Rag N Bone Man, who I like). Even during the golden age of pro and exhibition skating in the U.S., we didn't get many shows like this.
I have been listening to the audio version of Nathan's book.
What do you think about it? I'm debating between the audio version and the regular book.
 

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