U.S. Men 2019-20 season - news & updates

Jammers

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7,558
I would love to see Andrew put it all together and win Junior Worlds. Everyone saw the talent in the SP from this kid. If he ever starts landing shit he will move up quickly and be a threat the make the podium at Nationals as soon as next year. I would love to see him go to Raf for his jumps especially the 3axel. Adam used to stalk his 3axel as badly as Andrew does but Raf fixed it and Adam had a decent axel in his final years.
 

insideedgeua

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926
I would love to see Andrew put it all together and win Junior Worlds. Everyone saw the talent in the SP from this kid. If he ever starts landing shit he will move up quickly and be a threat the make the podium at Nationals as soon as next year. I would love to see him go to Raf for his jumps especially the 3axel. Adam used to stalk his 3axel as badly as Andrew does but Raf fixed it and Adam had a decent axel in his final years.
Adam lands plenty in practice. It seems to be doing the same thing in competition that is his issue. He has the goods, but doesn’t consistently deliver them, yet.

I don’t know whether it’s nerves or pressure that he puts in himself, or both. He’s got the jumps and lovely skating skills, he’s a hard worker, he has all the ingredients.

I hope he has a wonderful event at Junior Worlds.
 

VGThuy

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41,020
Since Torgashev competed as a junior internationally this fall, then it makes sense for him to go to Junior Worlds. Camden competed as a senior for the first time since he aged out of juniors.
 

Vagabond

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25,384
Since Torgashev competed as a junior internationally this fall, then it makes sense for him to go to Junior Worlds. Camden competed as a senior for the first time since he aged out of juniors.
:wall:

Torgashev skated internationally in both Senior and Junior events this year. This is the third season he has done so.

Pulkinen has been skating in Seniors internationally since the summer of 2017.

Torgashev finished fifth at Nationals last weekend; Pulkinen finished seventh.

Both skaters are inconsistent, but there is no strong case for sending Pulkinen to Four Continents instead of Torgashev except for the fact that Torgashev is eligible for World Juniors and Pulkinen isn't.
 

aftershocks

Banned Member
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17,317
Are you talking about his quad at TEB or Nationals?

I watched Misha Ge do a whistle-clean quad toe at Skate Canada FS (I was like 5 rows up directly in front of where he did it) and it was called <. I even took a picture of the landing edge because I was excited that he did a clean quad and the mark was really clear :lol: :mad:

Skate America fp 2016.

What year did Misha land a quad at Skate Canada. Cool you were there to witness it. Jason landed his quad on the other side of the rink from where I was sitting.
 

Dobre

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16,958
Both skaters are inconsistent, but there is no strong case for sending Pulkinen to Four Continents instead of Torgashev except for the fact that Torgashev is eligible for World Juniors and Pulkinen isn't.

SB scores, maybe?

This whole conversation is making me want to dig up so many disastrous performances from this season. All these young guys are just learning. May they all just stay in one piece and keep learning, as the GP and JGP made it perfectly clear that they all have a lot of it to do.
 

aftershocks

Banned Member
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17,317
... right on the border of 1/4 short.

Thank you. Benefit of the doubt to the skater!!! Especially a skater working so hard to get quads!! Especially a skater whose quad + fall in the sp was called good! When he actually lands it in the fp, why on earth nitpick when that skater also has a beautiful program that weaved a story for the audience, and he was skating at home. Hello! :duh:
 

VGThuy

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41,020
:wall:

Torgashev skated internationally in both Senior and Junior events this year. This is the third season he has done so.

Pulkinen has been skating in Seniors internationally since the summer of 2017.

Torgashev finished fifth at Nationals last weekend; Pulkinen finished seventh.

Both skaters are inconsistent, but there is no strong case for sending Pulkinen to Four Continents instead of Torgashev except for the fact that Torgashev is eligible for World Juniors and Pulkinen isn't.

Sorry, I meant Camden’s first time competing in the senior GP series and Andrew competing in the junior Grand Prix series. Both have competed in other senior competitions. It seems which GP series a skater competes may play some factor in where the USFS puts a skater unless a Polina Edmunds 2014 Olympics situation happens. Although it seems Torgashev wanted 4CC/Worlds consideration hence doing senior competitions and getting the minimums. I take Camden was doing the same thing by skating in challengers prior to this season while competing at junior GP events.
 
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Dobre

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16,958
Junior guys also want an SB score to get onto the GP, which is more earnable in senior competition where quads are allowed in the short program. Also they can earn WS points by competing at both levels, which can likewise help them earn their way onto the GP.

Pulkinen is currently 21st on the SB list. He has the 3rd highest SB for a U.S. man thus far this season due to SC. Torgashev is 47th. Pulkinen is currently 23rd on the WS list. Torgashev is currently 32nd. They could both earn points if they both go to different major internationals.
 

acraven

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2,599
Remember that Four Continents, though prestigious, is a dead-end competition from the perspective of the US and the the other countries in the sense that standings there don't affect the number of entries to future events. Junior Worlds results, on the other hand, determine how many skaters the US can send out on the Junior Grand Prix next year as well as to 2021 Junior Worlds. Naumov and Malinin are very talented but nowhere near as experienced as Torgashev. I have a feeling USFS wanted Torgashev back at Junior Worlds to try to get the maximum number of men's entries on the JGP. Let's hope he has turned a corner, consistency-wise, and can do it.

I'll be curious to see whether Torgashev attempts three quads in the Junior Worlds free skate or takes a more conservative approach. If I were USFS, I think I'd make a deal: Skate a less ambitious program at Junior Worlds and get a spring senior international assignment where he'll be free to try the three quads again, if he wants to.
 

Marco

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15,262
What happened to Nathan's lutz?

Jason was amazing. Absolutely beautiful. THE MOST beautiful. But while the quad is closer, it is still not close enough and other top skaters are already on harder quads or their 3rd quad, etc. With that, I agree with the poster who said Vincent is a safer 3rd World team member than Tomoki.

I actually would have the world team completely skip 4CCs and have Tomoki, Andrew and Alexei have 4CCs experience. Nathan doesn't need another competition before Worlds and Jason and Vincent can both use more training time. Or perhaps I would send Camden over Alexei for the final spot. Camden at least showed a quad at the GPs and Alexei was so promising but just can't breakthrough with the judges.

Jr Worlds selection seems fair except Ilia Malinin wasn't even named to the camp. Has the camp even happened yet?
 

olympic

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10,892
Camden has aged out of Juniors. Torgashev is in his last year of eligibility and I don't think has ever been to JW (or maybe once, a few years ago?). It makes sense for USFS to give out as many major int'l assignments as they can, and since Camden can't go to JW...

Thank you and I get the strategy. But, despite mistakes, I felt like I was watching a completely different competitor when I watched Andrew last week, and I feel like he should be rewarded w/ a step-up. OTOH, Camden showed a ton of fight (despite silly mistakes on simpler jumps) and a great Quad Toe himself, so I am torn about assignments.
 

kwanfan1818

RIP D-10
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37,644
there don't affect the number of entries to future events.
Future championships. 4C's scores can effect the number of GP spots if they are SB's, guaranteed or not, but USFS doesn't seem to care much about that, since they're earned by individuals and not appointed, like JGP sports.

I would have assigned the 4C's roster like you did, to fill up championship point slots to get better starting order placements at GP's and championships. Otherwise, it's a downward spiral.
 

concorde

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636
Thank you and I get the strategy. But, despite mistakes, I felt like I was watching a completely different competitor when I watched Andrew last week, and I feel like he should be rewarded w/ a step-up. OTOH, Camden showed a ton of fight (despite silly mistakes on simpler jumps) and a great Quad Toe himself, so I am torn about assignments.
If I remember correctly, Andrew went to JW awhile back and flopped in short so he did not advance. I am sure someone will correct this if I did not remember correctly.
 

aftershocks

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17,317
How Nathan can adjust on the fly what quads he will do from event to event is amazing. Sometimes it feels like he's not human.

Check out 2018 Olympics sp performances of one Nathan Chen, and you will notice that he's human. He even has a hard time finding the men's room in strange rink environments, as documented by the NBC camera crew. ;)

Nathan is just a very special human who could give us all some lessons in how to be 'cool' and carry on, if not quad lessons with his busy schedule! :D
 

Dobre

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16,958
This will be the first time Andrew has gone to Junior Worlds since 2017 and the first time he has competed as the top American junior man coming into the event. (Though Malinin's scores were both stronger than one of his JGP marks). It's going to be a big challenge and a lot of responsibility. I don't know what one might wish to call that, but personally, I think that is quite a step up for any athlete.
 

aftershocks

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17,317
The program that I keep rewatching from this weekend is Tomoki's SP. The way he's able to keep his energy up is remarkable. In general, I really love both the programs Mark Pillay has choreographed for him, this and last years SP.

I liked Tomoki's last year's programs better. I was happy to see how well he skated at Nationals, and I was surprised too because he'd had trouble with both these programs all season long. I appreciate how his team felt that these programs might work for him, but I agree with Johnny (or maybe it was Charlie White on NBC Gold) who said that Tomoki has trouble expressing the character of these particular music choices. I think he finally concentrated on simply performing the elements to his best ability rather than trying to adequately express the music or tell a story through the music. He needs more time to develop artistically before he will be able to do that with the type of more complex character-driven music selected for him this season.

Still, Tomoki skated with energy and pizzazz in Greensboro, in a way he hasn't done all season. I don't like either Tomoki's music or his costumes this season. They just aren't suited to his skating style nor to his personality. But the fact he was able to overcome the mismatched program selections and simply skate with energy and enthusiasm is great to see. His performances at Natls definitely warrant repeat viewing. :encore:
 

jlai

Question everything
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13,781
The program that I keep rewatching from this weekend is Tomoki's SP. The way he's able to keep his energy up is remarkable. In general, I really love both the programs Mark Pillay has choreographed for him, this and last years SP.
Tomoki's programs were really the highlight of the men's event. Not that Chen's sp wasn't great, and not that Jason wasn't beautiful as usual, but Nathan's was more traditional, Jason skating as Jason did. But Tomoki's was great and different and high high energy. And should get the highest scores for transitions.

If Andrew's short isn't so 'trashy' it will be great too. :)

For the long, I couldn't keep my eyes off Andrew, mistakes and all. And Alexei was compelling to watch in his fierce way too.
Considering how other men were going overdrive to skate their best, Nathan's was more business like in the long, by comparison. Understandably though (no great competition here)
 

aftershocks

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If Andrew's short isn't so 'trashy' it will be great too.

Huh? :confused: Trashy in what way??

Andrew's sp is a tour de force which he choreographed himself. Thank you very much! :encore:

This Youtube viewer is all praises on the rewind, sans sound (the music is probably copyright protected):
 

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