U.S. Ladies [#19]: Do You Know the Way to San Jose?

[ZilphaK]

Some colleges are offering synchro varsity programs (Miami, Adrian, Lindenwood). Alongside that, the synchro skaters are allowed to participate in collegiate solo competitions. A lot of singles athletes are trying out for Adrian because they are really supportive of that structure - or they were when I was in college. Other synchro teams are subsidized by the university at a club varsity level, like University of Michigan. Basically, they get some money for training and some free gear from the school's athletics apparel sponsor. Cal doesn't have a synchro team, but their figure skating team is getting very good at recruitment. I've think that the university itself might play a role in this, but that might just be weird wording from the skater I heard it from.
I think Synchro or Club Figure Skating may go club varsity at more schools because it's relatively cheap to sponsor certain aspects of it (if the university has its own ice arena and an associated athletic brand), but I can't see it going full varsity.

Either way, synchro skaters aren't training to get to the Olympics in ladies singles (or probably even synchro, since it's not in the Olympics). Some top singles skaters do go on to compete collegiately (Mirai comes to mind), but for the most part they don't compete in normal collegiate competitions, only the singles championship over the summer. I do think if more top schools had skating teams it would encourage more who are right below that top level to continue. I believe MIT has a very small one, as does UCLA. Dartmouth's is (or was?) one of the top in the country. University of Michigan's is pretty good as well.

It's not going to save the US ladies. The US Ladies who are competitive internationally are those who survive without thinking much about college right away, and those who compete in college are the ones who think about college. It's two very different groups.

All true. I'd just add that even as a club sport in college, synchro keeps more kids on the ice, for longer, taking tests in MIF and dance, and all this supports the bottom line for a club and/or rink in both $$$ and membership. Same with theater on ice programs and all the club "recreational" competitors. It's a good selling point both for schools and clubs. It just gets more kids (and their parents) who try skating/learn to skate, take a longer view of the sport as something worthwhile pursuing with their time/talent/$$. (Sort of like marching band: my middle kid intends to look for a college with a marching band, not that she'll get $$$ for joining band, but it's a ready-made group within the school to identify with and make the transition easier.)

If the skating team model was brought down to pre-college level, again, I think it would additionally help with training costs and skater retention. It's not a perfect either/or -- you might lose a few kids who flourish under the Pay $$$$$ to Play system in place now, but might bring in more kids overall who could play longer and at higher levels...or be identified sooner for additional training/funding? I know, it's tough to find a perfect answer, especially when skating is such an early-peak sport and puberty can wreak havoc...but with teams and cost-cutting, you might also retain more late bloomers who drop out due to funds running out. I also think that team competitions would give parents a clearer view of their own kids progression and potential...right now, it's tough for new skating parents (and most are) to see the lay of the land as far as how how much money/time/training to put when and where.

Again...this is all pie in the sky right now. But some clubs are moving toward collaborative coaching teams and package pricing, and I think it's a move in the right direction.

 

[Willin]

@Jozet In Michigan and Minnesota (maybe other states?) they do have high school team skating competitions that go up to state championships. I believe there's individual programs and a skills competition, like the college figure skating team model. I believe the skating teams were varsity at some high schools. Most of the girls I know who did it weren't ever going to be even National level competitors but who skated as a fun hobby. A lot of them went on to do college figure skating or synchro.

 

[Tinami Amori]

And then you have some, particularly online, who say things like "those who do not support him or at least understand him, are either losers who do not believe in themselves, or using their platform for personal advancement or causes." On both sides of the aisle. .

I is there a particular reason why, while you're stating that "it is wrong on both sides of the isle" you only underline my comment and not this one, which came first?

I think he is a vile human being, and people who support him plummet in my estimations (and that's how it is for a lot of other people too). & Polina got flack too after the election because of her Insta and Snaps.

Is it not "partisan" and "bias" of you?

 

[annie720]

...If you don't stay politically neutral, you're opening yourself up to vicious criticism. You have to wonder if Courtney took that into account - if she was ready for the backlash she'd get, or if she even realized that some people look through your history of liked tweets....

I do think this is possible, that someone can be very active on social media for publicity purposes without realizing how much information is gleaned from liked tweets. It appears Courtney asked someone privately why she disliked her, was told it was because of her political leanings, and then calmly tried to explain her feelings about Trump, privately. I would not have engaged the person at all, that seems very immature, but I have more of a problem with someone thinking it's ok to reveal the private messages. I do not share what appear to be Courtney's political leanings, but IMO she's entitled to her own opinions and as a skating fan, I'm ok with that as long as she is not broadcasting them, and I don't consider private messages and "likes" to be broadcasting. I was happy she was having a good start to her season and will continue to follow her. If she starts praising Trump on her open IG, I'll rethink that.

 

[ZilphaK]

@Willin That sounds a lot like our high school hockey teams around here. Some of the club travel players join in, but a lot of players aren't playing hockey as their primary sport or get training outside the high school team. With skating, I think the model of high competitive team competitions would have to come from USFSA as the primary structure to get to Sectionals and Nationals, if not Regionals. Or maybe, vice versa. It would take a lot to coordinate with clubs, rinks, coaches. Probably impossible. It takes less money to run and maintain a gymnastics training center than an ice rink. Although, again, I think more could be done with off-ice training to balance the high costs of ice time.

 

[Wyliefan]

I think "he" is an interesting, dynamic, productive human being, who will return law and order and prosperity to the country, and those who do not support him or at least understand him, are either losers who do not believe in themselves, or using their platform for personal advancement or causes.

And he is so pleasant and fair and mannerly, just like you like people to be.

 

[Willin]

@Tinami Amori Because I quoted the most recent post that I could easily scroll up to in order to quote. Do not assume bias or malice where laziness could explain it instead.

@annie720 I gained a lot of respect for her. While I do not agree with her at all, I was impressed that she stayed calm and articulated her reasoning. It's okay to disagree with someone politically, as long as you're not a jerk about it.
Though, I should note I do have a problem that she has liked at least one transphobic tweet. I expected it given her religious leanings, but since figure skating has a large LGBT audience (only growing with Yuri on Ice's popularity), it's really not good for her image.

 

[Tinami Amori]

@Tinami Amori Because I quoted the most recent post that I could easily scroll up to in order to quote. Do not assume bias or malice where laziness could explain it instead.

You did not need to "scroll up".. My reply highlighted the other posts...

And he is so pleasant and fair and mannerly, just like you like people to be.

The point is: if one suggests it is best to stay neutral, one should list only one-sided example. It's hypocrisy.

 

[oleada]

I'm not particularly surprised given her FS music choice.

Courtney is entitled to her political beliefs and people are entitled to judge her based on them. Does that have anything to do with her skating? No, nor should it be a reason to select someone for the Olympic team. May the best skater win. But people are allowed to like or dislike skaters for all sorts of reasons.

Personally, though, any positive feelings I had for her after Skate Canada are gone and I'll be rooting for other skaters to make it to Korea.

 

[AxelAnnie]

I'm not particularly surprised given her FS music choice.

Courtney is entitled to her political beliefs and people are entitled to judge her based on them. Does that have anything to do with her skating? No, nor should it be a reason to select someone for the Olympic team. May the best skater win. But people are allowed to like or dislike skaters for all sorts of reasons.

Personally, though, any positive feelings I had for her after Skate Canada are gone and I'll be rooting for other skaters to make it to Korea.

So, her politics should have nothing to do with her skating, but you you no longer have positive feelings about her skating because she likes Trump? WOW!

 

[Tinami Amori]

Personally, though, any positive feelings I had for her after Skate Canada are gone and I'll be rooting for other skaters to make it to Korea .

same here.... same sentiment, different conclusion....

 

[Vagabond]

Figure skating twitter can get messy and the skaters are so young, they should be taught how to handle this stuff properly.

Courtney Hicks is 21, nearly 22. That's young, but she most likely has been told -- even taught -- several times how to handle things properly. She simply chooses not to, which may itself be an indication that she is too young to be using social media.

 

[oleada]

So, her politics should have nothing to do with her skating, but you you no longer have positive feelings about her skating because she likes Trump? WOW!

I haven't historically liked her skating prior to SC, where in this very thread I gave her credit for her improvement.

Turns out she's racist, xenophobic and transphobic, and supports a president who is all of the above. I can't disassociate that from her skating. I'm human, sorry. I'm not rooting for her to fall or anything like that. I just hope other skaters end up ahead of her.

As I said, people can like whatever skater a they like for whatever reason.

 

[Spun Silver]

So, her politics should have nothing to do with her skating, but you you no longer have positive feelings about her skating because she likes Trump? WOW!

Or because she is skating to a Christian hymn.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Turns out she's racist, xenophobic and transphobic, and supports a president who is all of the above. I can't disassociate that from her skating..

Turns out you're using old well known dishonest tricks to accuse opponent without substantiating it, and by repeating it often enough to it sounds like truth.

By that logic, if you are anti-Trump, then you're a contributor to US's crime and illegal activities, offender of the citizens' lives and safety, pro economic decline and destruction of the country, pro-unemployment for the US citizens, and squanderer of US resources, in other words: murderer, thief, anti-American.

 

[AxelAnnie]

It used to be that everything eventually became about MK. Now everything ends up being about Trump. Could we please move this thread back to skating rather than politics?

 

[jlai]

Hey, there is a reason I don't follow skaters on Facebook or Twitter.
May the best skater go to Korea!

 

[oleada]

Or because she is skating to a Christian hymn.

Woah. I never said I didn't root for Courtney because of her religion, so please do not mischaracterize that. I figured she was fairly religious based on her music choice, and it's not surprising, given her beliefs, that she's politically conservative. But there are many religious and conservative people who didn't support Trump.

 

[BlueRidge]

Its quite possible to like Amazing Grace and not be politically conservative, or political at all. My father loved the song.

I really like Courtney's long program and I'm not inclined to bother about her politics.

 

[GullyGirl84]

Courtney Hicks is 21, nearly 22. That's young, but she most likely has been told -- even taught -- several times how to handle things properly. She simply chooses not to, which may itself be an indication that she is too young to be using social media.

I agree that Courtney is really old enough to know better to go about responding this way. Maybe some immaturity due to being sheltered, etc., but you can't really go out of your way to engage people on Twitter unless you are ready to back it up, and her "who, me?" responses seem kind of clueless. It seemed not to be so much the "Trump support" tweets but some specifically racial/trans phobic tweets that people were offended by her liking. Now when you search her on Twitter, this is all the stuff that comes up, and it will probably continue to be this way. You have to show some restraint when you are a professional athlete/public figure, if she didn't want this attention, she would have been better making some generic tweet about celebrating diverse viewpoints, but this stuff kind of just lit it up.

That said, to cycle it back, this does need to be covered in Champs Camp...I assume it has been to some extend already, and Courtney has been on the grand prix circuit long enough at this point, even though she did not go this year.

 

[Vagabond]

Entire post

I don't know whether the Admins will ban you for this, but you'll be on my Ignore List for a week.

 

[oleada]

Turns out you're using old well known dishonest tricks to accuse opponent without substantiating it, and by repeating it often enough to it sounds like truth.

Oh? So did someone hack into Courtney Hicks's twitter account and liked anti DACA, anti immigration, transphobic and anti women's rights tweets? Go look at her timeline yourself.

Anyway, I'm out. Same old cast of trolish characters.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I don't know whether the Admins will ban you for this, but you'll be on my Ignore List for a week.

If they won't ban you for starting a name calling towards a US skater/Courtney (she's racist, xenophobic and transphobic) then they should not ban me... You can keep me on your ignore list permanently, and send me no cookies, dear mother....

 

[Willin]

Amazing Grace is a great song. I love it. I don't like it as Courtney's FS because I feel the rendition of it she's using (or at least the singers on it) are awful. The arrangement at the start is great and then the voices come in and I want to plug my ears.

 

[BlueRidge]

Amazing Grace is a great song. I love it. I don't like it as Courtney's FS because I feel the rendition of it she's using (or at least the singers on it) are awful. The arrangement at the start is great and then the voices come in and I want to plug my ears.

Hmm, the vocals aren't superb, but I really like the way it builds.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Amazing Grace is a great song. I love it. I don't like it as Courtney's FS because I feel the rendition of it she's using (or at least the singers on it) are awful. The arrangement at the start is great and then the voices come in and I want to plug my ears.

In the current political environment i also made a note that Amazing Grace is a "christian song" and creates associations. But so is "Hallelujah" and "Ave Maria".... Just like "Hamilton" has racial-issues undertones, and i have no doubt many realize that as well.

I've seen people "politically react" while watching skating to the use of any song called "Money", regardless if it was ABBA, Pink Floyd, "Cabaret"....

 

[alchemy void]

So, her politics should have nothing to do with her skating, but you you no longer have positive feelings about her skating because she likes Trump? WOW!

Could we please move this thread back to skating rather than politics?

 

[FSfan107]

Honestly, it's so unfortunate people are basing their opinions on skaters based on their politics. There are many good people who support Trump, Clinton, or whomever. This is just contributing to the increasing divisiveness in this country. Just my opinion.

 

[Lanie]

Honestly, it's so unfortunate people are basing their opinions on skaters based on their politics. There are many good people who support Trump, Clinton, or whomever. This is just contributing to the increasing divisiveness in this country. Just my opinion.

Yup. I’m conservative-ish and a Christian who’d love to punch Trump in the face... I’m on the center right in American politics, but I left the GOP after the primary. I couldn’t vote for someone like that. Ever... but I know and love lots of people who voted for him, or for Clinton. I don’t think any less of them, not would I terminate a friendship, cut out family, or judge someone on their politics unless they were really unhinged. I don’t think less of Courtney.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Honestly, it's so unfortunate people are basing their opinions on skaters based on their politics. There are many good people who support Trump, Clinton, or whomever. This is just contributing to the increasing divisiveness in this country. Just my opinion.

On this board, "conservatives" usually don't start political issues in the skating sections/topics. It's usually the Left who fell the need to inject their "sacred war on Trump" at every opportunity, and expect the "others" to stay silent, on an assumption that it is a given that "Left have more rights for their outrage". Wrong assumption! The "conservatives" have the same rights, and they are also fighting the "sacred war".