U.S. Ladies [#19]: Do You Know the Way to San Jose?

[Bellanca]

11) 196.70 Bradie TENNELL USA ISU CS Lombardia Trophy 2017 15.09.2017
20) 188.56 Mariah BELL USA ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2017 21.10.2017

8) 132.36 Bradie TENNELL USA ISU CS Lombardia Trophy 2017
21) 124.71 Mariah BELL USA ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2017

ETA:
19) 66.18 Karen CHEN USA ISU CS US Internat. FS Classic 2017
25) 64.34 Bradie TENNELL USA ISU CS Lombardia Trophy 2017
26) 64.06 Courtney HICKS USA ISU GP Skate Canada International 2017
28) 63.85 Mariah BELL USA ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2017.

Underdog inclined.

 

[GreatLakesGal]

Homophobic tweets when half the skating world is gay, as well as her choreographer, is kind of baffling to me.

Baffling and also a shockingly stupid thing to do in 2017. You can kiss company endorsements goodbye and, in a sport like figure skating, greatly reduce or even eliminate your chances of being named to the Olympic Team.

 

[kwanfan1818]

What's going on here? Nothing about skating; only conjecture about skaters politics. There are other threads here to talk politics.

If you consider a social media audit trail "conjecture," that's your right.

I don't take "likes" for multi-subject/multi-point message board or Facebook posts as an endorsement of all of the content, but, unless someone's tweeting a screenshot of a longer text, Twitter's length limits tend to limit the Tweeter to one point/Tweet, if anything substantial is being declared.

 

[teacakes]

Interesting that Karen has the highest short and the lowest total score. I really hope her consistency improves.

 

[clairecloutier]

I noticed this when I attempted to look through her 'likes', that she was 'liking' some of the negative tweets directed at her. Don't know what's up with that.

I think this is a defiant-oppositional strategy that some people use toward negative comments on Twitter/elsewhere--I think the intent is to try to indicate to the attacker that the target has seen their comment but is not intimidated/cowed by it.

 

[centerpt1]

I would like to hear what Courtney has to say. Perhaps ask her what exactly her views are? To clarify?

Sometimes there is a not so hidden agenda in witch hunts against skaters. Perhaps Courtney has been targeted, or people are just jumping on the attack because it feels good to let their anger at something else out on a 22 year old sheltered skater.

While I certainly don't agree with her politics at all-(and at her age her politics will likely change) it would be nice to have her actual stance.

I don't see anything on her accounts now-perhaps they have been pulled? But I don't follow her , so maybe I'm not seeing everything.

I've been a fan of hers in the past , but if she truly supports hate groups I am no longer a fan. I'd just like to hear it from her.

 

[Chris_E]

Bradie's high score certainly stands out right now. I think the Olympic picture will become clearer after all the grand prix events, not necessarily the final itself. Bradie will have some pressure on her at Skate America but that isn't to say Ashley and Karen will not. This season might just be a bit more unpredictable than usual!

 

[Tinami Amori]

This one seems like a death threat:
https://twitter.com/Ieftbian/status/924341663409082368

I am surprised (but maybe not) that the "liberal" who is objecting to Courtney's "stands" is holding a gun and wants to "shoot" at her jumps. Gun violence? in a political discourse?... is that "liberal"?.. and it's a woman who is posting it...

As for your other question about her retweeting or liking any homophobic things, I just checked yesterday when this whole conversation was going on and I saw she liked something pretty transphobic and also tone deaf of the experiences of black people:

"Trans-phobic" is not "anti-gay". Transgender issues, and how to accommodate this group, are fairly new in society. People may have nothing against "transgender people" but have not yet found a right solution, for example, to how to accommodate everyone in the "locker/bathroom" situation. I've heard many liberal/dem women expressing concerns about a person with male genitals using same shower/locker room. Their concerns do not make them "anti-transgender"...

"Tone deaf to black issues" is subjective, and does not mean racist either. Some times a "group" makes demands on society which some people perceive as unreasonable, while those same "some" fully support the laws for equal civil rights for all. There are black groups on US campuses which are making demands to have "no white people" days, or "lesser number of white teachers". Objecting to that is not "racist". What the black groups are suggesting is rather racist.

Recently a group of gay liberals kicked out a group of Jewish Gays from their parade, for wearing a Star of David. Can we label these "gay liberals" anti-semitic? Bigots? Racist (since now "racist" is used for practically anything)..?

It seems like putting a simple tag on something makes it "a fact or truth".... the more tags you put on opposition, the more points you score with your own group. It's not going too well, is it?

 

[Coco]

The issue here is skaters behavior on social media.

Debates on the issues raised belong in PI.

LOOKING FORWARD TO BRADIE AT SKATE AMERICA!!!!!

 

[VGThuy]

I respectfully disagree. That tweet was making fun of the existence of a trans person on a very basic level and did not go into nuances of accommodation, and it was also making fun of people saying black people have different life experiences and should be allowed to speak about their own experiences. Trans-issues are unique issues and deserve their own space, but I find that transphobia and homophobia tend to go hand-in-hand and often times there are shared concerns among trans communities and LGB communities. That's why there's a "T" in LGBT.

I'm not going to get into any other issues you raised because I think that's diversion, but you and everyone else knows everybody is capable of having prejudicial and hateful attitudes about groups of people based on their ethnicity, race, gender, etc. even if they themselves belong to a marginalized group.

Anyway, this was about Courtney's liking things on Twitter and even if you want to argue her liking a transphobic tweet isn't homophobia, the tweet itself is pretty explicit about where it stands on how it views trans folk. For many, that is more than enough.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I respectfully disagree. That tweet was making fun of the existence of a trans person on a very basic level and also making fun of people saying black people have different life experiences and should be allowed to speak about their own experiences. Trans-issues are unique issues and deserve their own space, but I find that transphobia and homophobia tend to go hand-in-hand. That's why there's a "T" in LGBT.

I still can't find "tweets which Courtney liked".... what are they?

Anyway, this was about Courtney's liking things on Twitter and even if you want to argue her liking a transphobic tweet isn't homophobia, the tweet itself is pretty explicit about where it stands on how it views trans folk. For many, that is more than enough.

Well, i agree that putting down "any folks" for their personal features which do not hurt others is "... phobic", and if she supports it openly, it is a problem for her image.

 

[toddlj]

The scores at Lombardia seemed a bit inflated in general, and it's never safe to compare across competitions. That being said, Bradie's jumps looked very clean to me at Lombardia! I wonder how much a squeaky clean program could score for an unheralded GP first-timer? Fingers crossed.

 

[toddlj]

Can we please please please debate politics in some other thread? I come to this thread for the discussion of US Ladies Skating. I'll go to social media for my dose of politics, when I'm feeling emotionally strong enough to handle that. Thanks.

 

[Rukia]

Another cheer for Amber this week! If she could skate as well as she does in practices she'd do amazing. I like her a lot, so I hope she can just relax and skate great.

Personally I'm not s fan of Hicks's skating style, and I didn't think her long was that great? It showed very little connection to the music to me. But I'm glad she stepped up and had a pretty good outing.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Personally I'm not s fan of Hicks's skating style, and I didn't think her long was that great? It showed very little connection to the music to me. But I'm glad she stepped up and had a pretty good outing.

(regardless of her "politics") I don't find Courtney very graceful or even slightly artistic. For someone who feels so strongly about "god's grace", she could have shown more passion and expression through body movements....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_UExq2FH-Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mvF2e6NE4c

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

Homophobic tweets when half the skating world is gay, as well as her choreographer, is kind of baffling to me.

Indeed although I guess a choreographer has to look past such things if they want to build their business and not get involved in controversy. Personally though, I wouldn't want to work with people who are homophobic, racist or have shown they are sympathetic (via 'liking' such disgusting tweets) towards such causes. I do all I can to avoid being in the same room with them, let alone work with them.

 

[DORISPULASKI]

I thought the tweet in question was anti liberal; expressing a belief that liberals are inconsistent and hypocritical.
It is a standard conservative trope. I.e. The liberal quoted believes a non black cannot know what it is like to be black, but believes that he/she knows exactly what the transgender person is feeling, despite not being transgender.

Twitter's short length make this stuff even more moot.

It is better to stay away from twitter imo.

A lot of people look through celebrities or public people's tweets and likes because they are interested in knowing more about them. It's like when people invite cameras into their personal life and people start following them on social media and want to know more about them and they grow a fandom. I think what happened with Courtney is that some skating fans were looking at likes to various skaters and then came across hers and then saw a few things they didn't like. Or maybe they saw something she re-tweeted that showed up on their feed and looked at her likes to see if she expressed support for other views like that just to be sure before they made a judgment. Then they told their friends, and then they told others, and then some reacted in a way where they became more openly hostile and confrontational about it.

As for your other question about her retweeting or liking any homophobic things, I just checked yesterday when this whole conversation was going on and I saw she liked something pretty transphobic and also tone deaf of the experiences of black people:

https://twitter.com/SyrOrangeJC/status/924028266796670977

Courtney actually liked some of the more negative comments. The last reply in the above thread where the person hashtagged #girlbye to Hicks was liked by Hicks. So she's pretty proud.

Anyway, I think Hicks is young and discovering her political voice and is enthusiastic about others whose views she shares. I think the ones responding to her are similar in age and also discovering their voices. So you have young people yelling at each other. This is pretty much how the 2016 election discourse was happening on social media except it wasn't just young people and some times people were positively reacting to bots.

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

Best of luck to Amber at COC!

 

[VGThuy]

I thought the tweet in question was anti liberal; expressing a belief that liberals are inconsistent and hypocritical.
It is a standard conservative trope. I.e. The liberal quoted believes a non black cannot know what it is like to be black, but believes that they know exactly what the transgender person is feeling, despite not being transgender.

Twitter's short length make this stuff even more moot.

It is better to stay away from twitter imo.

It was more like not believing someone for being trans and poking fun of liberals for "just" taking the trans' person's word that they know that they are a woman insinuating that they are just pretending to be a woman. They are equating it with a non-black person trying to say they know what life is like for a black person. Part of it is showing "inconsistency" of liberals but that also works because they are equating the trans person's identification as pretending.

 

[analia]

Wow. Five pages for Courtney Hicks. She sure was looking for this...

 

[DORISPULASKI]

You could read it that way, but I think the other way is a possible interpretation. Who knows how Courtney read it? That is the trouble with judging people by "likes."

 

[Tinami Amori]

It was more like not believing someone for being trans and poking fun of liberals for "just" taking the trans' person's word that they know that they are a woman insinuating that they are just pretending to be a woman. They are equating it with a non-black person trying to say they know what life is like for a black person. Part of it is showing "inconsistency" of liberals but that also works because they are equating the trans person's identification as pretending.

That’s a new twist to the “like a tweet” story..

Maybe Courtney is not “social-issue sophisticated” and/or does not know enough about transgender issues to detect that is it mocking transgender people, and she simply agreeing with “liberal hypocrisy” part (I agree with her on that part)?

It would be more productive to make her aware (in a tweet or otherwise) about the Transgender specifics, than to tweet in response a gun threat. That only confirms the idea that liberals are hypocrites.

She also re-twitted and “liked" this: https://pics.me.me/untoasted-toasted-burnt-rt-animaioverdose-corgi-colors-13488695.png

Should I call PETA and call her animal hater? (I can’t believe I am reading b-skater’s tweets…..

...... then i check out the site where the foto came from.... it's by an animal lover/rescue.... https://twitter.com/CuteEmergency?lang=en&lang=en

go figure....

 

[VGThuy]

I get people want to read things in the best way possible and give her the benefit of the doubt, but that tweet was pretty blatant. Even if she herself doesn't get that, I'm talking about the original tweet itself. That person is politically sophisticated as he writes for The National Review. Even in giving her the benefit of the doubt, she liked a tweet that used trans folk as a punchline. I'll stop talking about it because I rather not continue to be gaslighted about this or offer others a way to divert attention to other agendas they want to promote in poor attempts at deflecting.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I get people want to read things in the best way possible and give her the benefit of the doubt, but that tweet was pretty blatant. Even in giving her the benefit of the doubt they used trans folk as a punchline. I'll stop talking about it because I rather not continue to be gaslighted about this or offer others a way to divert attention to other agendas they want to promote.

Well, if one can't read the tweet, one can only go by the given descriptions, and so far each is slightly different, and i keep going back and forth. If the original tween was bluntly mocking transgender people, then yes, a 21-year old should have noticed it, and yes it is wrong.

 

[DORISPULASKI]

Courtney also said about it

Ok I understand that. And I did not see it as a joke, to me it seems to be a real conflict of logic that I actually am confused by.

 

[VGThuy]

My tweet link was in the post you yourself quoted.

Courtney also said about it

Like I said, even if she doesn't get that, she's still equating a trans person as pretending to know the experience of a woman. She's agreeing with the supposed logical inconsistency of people accepting trans people's experience as being the gender that they actually are with someone telling someone else that because they are not black, they cannot fully know the black experience. That's the only way that logical "inconsistency" can work for her to agree with it. For many people, that's more than enough.

With that I'm out.

 

[Tinami Amori]

My tweet link was in the post you yourself quoted.

I found it. https://twitter.com/SyrOrangeJC/status/924028266796670977
.. and can tell you more: if not for this discussion, i would have no idea what it is about at first glance, not that it is mocking liberals, or transgender people.

Further more, i thought that the person behind original post is "conveying the message" as a confirmation that he agrees with the statements and supports these statements and just says "same guy said it" (perhaps meaning "that guy is great")..... I am not BS-ing... i would not have known what this tweet is about if not for FSU...

I think..... if this original tweet was posted from the start, and explanation was given why Courtney got a back lash, and the discussion would be about "Courtney's reaction and consequences", instead of general name calling "homophobic", "racist" etc. and if not for one poster's grab of opportunity to stab at Trump and his supporters...... we would not have this bloody mess of a discussion for 5 pages.

 

[Sylvia]

Ted Flett interviewed Ashley after she competed at Skate Canada in Regina (23 mins.): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxI7dZ7m1sk

 

[demetriosj]

When there is no pressure on your back, it’s much easier to perform. Courtney’s good performance it’s pretty much that. She’s still have several lackluster competitions so far this season. If you want to look at a possible, look at Bradie instead.

Glad you're taking advantage of this to promote your little favorite.........Not too obvious..............

 

[toddlj]

Is there a mod that could chime in on this non-topic thread hijack?