The Skating Lesson 2018/2019

Rafter

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,269
Seriously?????? Maybe they were playing with DL for revenge or a test..(they said it to him in complete confidence and then waited to see if he would spill the beans) Unless there is some huge split between Bruno and Richard Gauthier in which case I could see at least half of their teams would switch to Bruno. I would wait and see on this one.....Maybe his source wasn't Meghan and/or Meghan was joking.
I doubt it would be a huge split between Marcotte and Gauthier....D and M probably got an offer in a place that has an amazing climate. It’s also their chance to help build up US pairs.
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
Messages
7,320
You make it sound like she finished 17th with that Olympic skate. :lol: I'd dearly love to see her skate on tour, stepout and all.
It was more a comment on the quality of the production then Osmond's skating - if they weren't going to bother doing re-skates or edits what was the point.
 

barbarafan

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,719
I doubt it would be a huge split between Marcotte and Gauthier....D and M probably got an offer in a place that has an amazing climate. It’s also their chance to help build up US pairs.
I doubt it would be a huge split between Marcotte and Gauthier....D and M probably got an offer in a place that has an amazing climate. It’s also their chance to help build up US pairs.
Why would they want to build up US pairs? CDns really really need a lot of work.
 

marbri

Hey, Kool-Aid!
Messages
13,071
Wow. Just watched some of their pay for "review" of the TYCT for free on someone's instagram account. So save your $5, it's out there already.

I consider myself a fairly cynical and jaded person so I do find heartfelt thank you's a bit much for my black soul but these two just come across as asses. I can understand why they didn't have the balls to post this for free.
 

kosjenka

Pogorilaya’s fairy godmother
Messages
4,623
Wow. Just watched some of their pay for "review" of the TYCT for free on someone's instagram account. So save your $5, it's out there already.

I consider myself a fairly cynical and jaded person so I do find heartfelt thank you's a bit much for my black soul but these two just come across as asses. I can understand why they didn't have the balls to post this for free.
They were trolling around. I laughed just a little bit. Johnathan wasn't into it as much at Dave.
 

Shayii

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,595
I don't put stock in what TSL says so as a VM fan I wasn't affected by the review of the tour itself. What is weird is what seems to be Dave's hate for Tessa (who has been getting a lot of hate even from her so called fans and I feel bad for her). Like he really went after her. I don't think it's easy being a public figure--you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. If I was in the public eye I would be accused of being inauthentic as well.
 

angi

Well-Known Member
Messages
232
I don't put stock in what TSL says so as a VM fan I wasn't affected by the review of the tour itself. What is weird is what seems to be Dave's hate for Tessa (who has been getting a lot of hate even from her so called fans and I feel bad for her). Like he really went after her. I don't think it's easy being a public figure--you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. If I was in the public eye I would be accused of being inauthentic as well.
They do the same thing with Ashley Wagner, TSL used to rip her apart in the most bitchy ways time after time, including this year when she isn't even competing until she publicly blocked them and posted about it calling them something like "insufferable little trolls". TSL seems to have a real issue with women, particularly strong women who make high money in the sport (unless it's Michelle Kwan which he sucks up to repeatedly). I've always found TSL coverage to be very misogynistic and this treatment of Tessa is very on-brand for them.
 

kosjenka

Pogorilaya’s fairy godmother
Messages
4,623
I would not agree there was hate for Virtue. They were mocking her and after seeing the content that was televised, i couldn't help but laugh because the content for mocking was provided on the plate.
I am sure that the most decorated Olympic champion in ice dance is not bothered.
 

marbri

Hey, Kool-Aid!
Messages
13,071
I don't watch or listen to everything they do. If I see it mentioned that they have on a guest I am interested in I will look. I enjoy Meghan Duhamel for example.

I am not a regular so am not clued up what he has said about Ashley but what I watched today it doesn't surprise me that he'd have a go at her as well. He seems threatened by strong successful women. Every once in a while my feminist gene gets triggered and I think that's what happened today. In explaining his shots at Tessa he takes a shot at Meryl as well. I just didn't find it at all clever and I guess yeah, I found it misogynistic.

And it certainly wasn't lost on me that he talks about high school speeches and their hypocrisy of skating for charitable reasons while charging people for tickets all the while bitching like mean girls in high school and charging people to watch because he knows they are high profile and suckers will pay him the $$$.

I guess if he didn't learn from the last episode that had him hiding with his tail between his legs he will never learn. Some people are just asses and will always be.

eta.. Anyway , I will go back to being indifferent. Just happened upon the freebie and thought I save folks some money ;) :p
 

starrynight

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,421
I haven't seen the episode. But I have seen that other online trolls have edited out choice mean snippets and have been tagging skaters in them on social media. Which is just downright obnoxious.

I just don't think that anything dedicated solely to injecting negativity in the skating world is applaudable. Particularly right now when things have been on the whole a bit depressing.

I'm not against critiquing something. I love reading online reviews of movies and TV shows and analysing things. But that's not what TSL was doing. They are just being bitchy. I think they are mostly just trying to provoke Virtue/Moir fans because they think it's funny or something. (And ironically being paid by them for the pleasure which is a bit twisted).

Fact is, this show was a step up from what has been on offer in North America to date. There were lots of new costumes, group numbers which had actually been rehearsed for decent time and individual programs designed especially for the tour. It would have taken a bit to get that off the ground first time around. I'm sure for the next tour, which is not scheduled right after the exhausting Olympic season, with previous ticket sales to support sponsorship etc, that even more will be able to be developed.

The alternative has been the same old format of Stars on Ice where the same costumes have been used for 20 years and content relies on the skaters themselves bringing their own exh programs. TTYCT was a step up from that. Hopefully the content and focus of the tour will be able to expand in the future now that everyone involved has more experience.

At the end of the day, they had the balls to create their own skating show when barely any new exciting things have happened like that in North American skating for years.

The suggestion the tickets should have been free, was frankly RIDICULOUS. The only way that could have been achieved is if Tessa and Scott turned up at a few local rink shows and did an exh program. I would love to hear where TSL imagines the funds could have been obtained for a 2 month tour stretching the length of Canada if there were no ticket sales. That opinion shows how little they actually thought through this ‘critique’.

I thought some aspects of the tour were great. For example, I thought that Weaver/Poje program 'I Wanna Dance With Somebody' choreographed by Marie-France is one of the best things they've done.

I do wonder what Duhamel sees in these two and why she likes them so much.
 
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all_empty

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,763
New episode is up summarizing the Russian Cup Final.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9b-1NWKaMkk

They've returned to a lot of the snark, digging into Konstantinova and Tuk a lot.

Later, they dissect Gracie's various interviews -- the NYT one and the two televised ones.

I'm going to risk opening a can of worms here, but I couldn't help but note the amount of sympathy they show for Gracie and (what I interpreted) as a lack of sympathy for John Coughlin in previous (now deleted) episodes.

Granted, Gold's eating/mental issues and Couglin's allegations are two completely different things, but we're talking about two people in a lot of pain (three, if you throw in their comments about Gaby Daleman).

For awhile I felt Dave was moving in a more journalistic direction, but this episode feels like two steps back. I'm not sure about this armchair psychology.
 

marbri

Hey, Kool-Aid!
Messages
13,071
I thought some aspects of the tour were great. For example, I thought that Weaver/Poje program 'I Wanna Dance With Somebody' choreographed by Marie-France is one of the best things they've done.
I didn't realize she choreographed this program. Off topic but Weaver/Poje is the one team I really wanted to move to Montreal this season because I think what they are missing in FD's is what MF could give them. Love their RD and think the work Igor did there is great but I would have liked some fresh eyes on them for the FD.
 

tylersf

Well-Known Member
Messages
423
You don't have to accept what TSL says as gospel truth.
It's just 2 people with an opinion. You have the right to think for yourself.
I'm highly entertained by their comments whether or not I agree with them.
 
D

Deleted member 53443

Guest
I liked the last episode. I think they found a balance between substance (much less than with a pro-skater guest obviously but still ok) and entertainment. If you don't have the stomach to take some banter on your favorite skaters watch something else. I like Zagitova and dear lord have they been unfair to her at times but really, if I can't take that I am the one with the problem, not them.
 

Plisskin

Active Member
Messages
42
You don't have to accept what TSL says as gospel truth.
It's just 2 people with an opinion. You have the right to think for yourself.
I'm highly entertained by their comments whether or not I agree with them.
Indeed. I kinda wish I could come into this thread and not always sift through the same complaints of people who have issues with TSL and talk about the episodes but it is what it is I guess. I just go to their Youtube comments and talk to others there since this thread is pretty much a complaint thread at this point.
 

Rock2

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,676
You don't have to accept what TSL says as gospel truth.
It's just 2 people with an opinion. You have the right to think for yourself.
I'm highly entertained by their comments whether or not I agree with them.
Exactly.

The commentary market is crowded now and just about every other personality in this space is political. You don't see Jackie Wong and others taking on any meaningful discussion of Coughlin or body image issues. Many in the space steer clear of everything even remotely controversial to make sure USFSA and all skaters like them and no feathers get ruffled.

If you enjoy the more middle of the road, breezy commentary then you'll enjoy those types. If you appreciate more direct discussion on what's happening in skating -- even if you don't share their opinions -- you'll follow TSL. But in order to do that, you have to have an appetite to hear unflattering comments about skaters, coaches or officials you might like. If you can't hack that, you'll spend a lot of wasted energy being offended.

They aren't attempting to be journalists -- it's a Vlog. Having said that I can tell Dave is careful enough to not assert anything as truth that he can't stand behind. Opinion is mostly positioned as such. I'm good with it.
 

all_empty

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,763
You don't have to accept what TSL says as gospel truth.
It's just 2 people with an opinion. You have the right to think for yourself.
I'm highly entertained by their comments whether or not I agree with them.
I guess this was directed at me?

I have been following TSL since the beginning. I also happen to be a journalist and liked the direction Dave was doing with the analysis stuff.

The fun banter and commentary is fine as well. The shows have always been a mix of snark and analysis even in the earliest days when Dave was more snark and Jenny was more analysis.

The last show just felt a bit weird/all over the place tonally given the various serious things that Gracie and Gaby are going through. That's all.

If you look back, I have actually been very supportive of TSL.
 

meggonzo

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,909
I'm going to risk opening a can of worms here, but I couldn't help but note the amount of sympathy they show for Gracie and (what I interpreted) as a lack of sympathy for John Coughlin in previous (now deleted) episodes.

Granted, Gold's eating/mental issues and Couglin's allegations are two completely different things, but we're talking about two people in a lot of pain
Seems you've answered your own question. Is it really that difficult to understand?
 

tylersf

Well-Known Member
Messages
423
This is not directed at anyone specifically.
A lot of people seem to get angry over what a couple of people think about skating.
I'm highly entertained by Dave, Jonathan and their guests even if I don't agree with them.
So I'm sorry if you took this personally. The comment was just an observation that I see in this forum.

I guess this was directed at me?

I have been following TSL since the beginning. I also happen to be a journalist and liked the direction Dave was doing with the analysis stuff.

The fun banter and commentary is fine as well. The shows have always been a mix of snark and analysis even in the earliest days when Dave was more snark and Jenny was more analysis.

The last show just felt a bit weird/all over the place tonally given the various serious things that Gracie and Gaby are going through. That's all.

If you look back, I have actually been very supportive of TSL.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
32,215
I saw their interview with Joe Inman recommended to me and I could not help but watch. A great interview and I think Joe Inman speaks a lot of truth. Even though I do think there are things one can disagree with, I do think Inman's statements are very reasonable. I also love the insight he gave about making PCS (with Lori) and how it got twisted a bit. Like they never intended to use the word "transitions" which I wish was questioned a bit more in depth. His comments about musical phrasing is spot on and having speed but little power and how skaters get older can develop power and really get into the ice. I just wish current judging would reward that more. I liked his comments about judges not taking enough off for mistakes and disruptions for great skaters with excellent skating skills, especially in the "performance" mark and spoke about Patrick Chan at 2013 Worlds and how Chan was off his phrasing and stiff during that performance.
 
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aftershocks

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,303
I thought this was a great interview. I agree completely that there needs to be more accountability. And I really enjoyed hearing about working with different skaters and coaches.
Yes, Joe Inman as a guest is fascinating, but I dislike all the Surya Bonaly shade. Inman at least tried to soften his critique by acknowledging that Surya has been a good professional performer. The fact is that although she did not have good edges, her background as a tumbler gave her amazing power on her jumps, and she also had other good performance qualities as an eligible skater. Surya could complete difficult jumps even without going into them with any speed, sometimes almost from a standstill (not saying that was always conducive to good programs).

The shade about Surya having horrendous figures could be said about a lot of skaters of the past. And, in any case, Surya did not begin to rise in the standings until after the sport's decision to completely do away with figures (i.e., throwing the baby out with the bath water because of television). Sure, they needed to eliminate figures from competition. But I don't think they needed to abandon figures entirely as if figures have no relevance whatsoever to good skating development. Obviously, some skaters excelled at figures more than others, and that would always be the case. Perfect figures are nearly impossible to perform, unless you are Trixi Schuba (or are blessed with her talent):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuLv-FyvoyA
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trixi_Schuba

Oh well, at least there are skaters who have sought to preserve and archive the importance of figures via the World Figure & Fancy Skating Championships.
 
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bardtoob

Clichy Competitive Audition Protocol Auditor
Messages
13,833
The shade about Surya having horrendous figures could be said about a lot of skaters of the past.
I love Surya, but her figures were in fact hideous. There is footage of her going into other skaters patches during competition practice.

https://youtu.be/hkkYeo8wgxA

That is not to say that Vanessa Riley and her biased comments can't stuff it.
 
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WillyElliot

Tanning one day, then wearing a winter coat today.
Messages
662
See, I disagree about figures. Does anyone remember getting up at the crack of dawn to practice your figures on a small patch of ice? I found that stroking/edge coaches are much more important (and less expensive) to learn your edges instead of toiling on a figures patch for hours on end. It just seems as if some old-timers look back decades with fondness and a romanticized view of yesteryear. Figures were for the most part judged politically, ruined a skater's Olympic dreams, and really didn't help someone's SKATING. (For instance, Schuba was awesome at figures and was a very mediocre skater, while Lynn was terrible at figures yet her skating is legendary). It still boggles my mind that no one helped Surya on her basic edging and stroking, or that Mama refused to let anyone help Surya with such a fundamental requirement for good skating.
 

Spun Silver

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,595
See, I disagree about figures. Does anyone remember getting up at the crack of dawn to practice your figures on a small patch of ice? I found that stroking/edge coaches are much more important (and less expensive) to learn your edges instead of toiling on a figures patch for hours on end. It just seems as if some old-timers look back decades with fondness and a romanticized view of yesteryear. Figures were for the most part judged politically, ruined a skater's Olympic dreams, and really didn't help someone's SKATING. (For instance, Schuba was awesome at figures and was a very mediocre skater, while Lynn was terrible at figures yet her skating is legendary). It still boggles my mind that no one helped Surya on her basic edging and stroking, or that Mama refused to let anyone help Surya with such a fundamental requirement for good skating.
Janet Lynn isn't the greatest example of your point. She is a huge advocate for figures and, correct me if I'm wrong, but she was only "terrible" at them compared to the likes of Trixie Schuba.
https://bevsmithwrites.com/janet-lynn-and-why-she-loves-figures/
 

WillyElliot

Tanning one day, then wearing a winter coat today.
Messages
662
Janet Lynn isn't the greatest example of your point. She is a huge advocate for figures and, correct me if I'm wrong, but she was only "terrible" at them compared to the likes of Trixie Schuba.
https://bevsmithwrites.com/janet-lynn-and-why-she-loves-figures/
And Karen Mag, Julie Lynn, etc. And what I said above about figures being political, I would bet that Lynn was even worse than her placements actually were. They weren't about to "Tiffany Chin" her to keep her out of the medals. The figures were rife with cheating/politik.

And as for Lynn being a huge advocate of figures, that doesn't surprise me. I'm sure she'd also be a huge advocate of going back to the Eisenhower Era where women had little if no education, and stayed in the kitchen, pushing out babies. Mem'ries, it was all so simple then.....
 
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