The Dance Hall 7: Tripping the Light Fantastic 2019-2020

casken

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C&B have like one intricate behind the back hold in the entire FD and they get those marks? And people think it's deserved?

It's a decent FD compared to their others, but, come on.
 

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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GPF qualification standings with 2 comps left: http://www.isuresults.com/events/gp2019/gpsdance.htm

1 Madison HUBBELL / Zachary DONOHUE USA 15 (209.55) + 13 (206.31) = 28 (415.86)
2 Madison CHOCK / Evan BATES USA 13 (204.84) + 13 (208.55) = 26 (413.39)
3 Laurence FOURNIER BEAUDRY / Nikolaj SORENSEN CAN 11 (197.53) + 11 (190.74) =22 (388.27)

Rostelecom Cup:
Victoria SINITSINA / Nikita KATSALAPOV RUS 15 (209.90)
Piper GILLES / Paul POIRIER CAN 15 (209.01)
Sara HURTADO / Kirill KHALIAVIN ESP 7 (180.64)
Natalia KALISZEK / Maksym SPODYRIEV POL 5 (183.42)

NHK Trophy:
Gabriella PAPADAKIS / Guillaume CIZERON FRA 15 (222.24)
Alexandra STEPANOVA / Ivan BUKIN RUS 13 (206.57)
Charlene GUIGNARD / Marco FABBRI ITA 11 (203.34)
Lilah FEAR / Lewis GIBSON GBR 11 (195.35)
Shiyue WANG / Xinyu LIU CHN 9 (186.45)
Christina CARREIRA / Anthony PONOMARENKO USA 5 (180.55)
Lorraine MCNAMARA / Quinn CARPENTER USA (183.47 at Nepela Trophy in Sept.)
 
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oleada

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42,509
I've been honest about my less than enthusiastic reactions to H/B's choice of material this season, but it's just dissing to act as if H/B aren't top-notch ice dancers. H/B sell their programs and they are excellent at what they do, despite Gadbois having so many teams, they are running thin on creative ideas.
They messed up two elements in their FD - which is a complete dud of a program - and the Danadians were already better last season :saint:
 

aftershocks

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They messed up two elements in their FD - which is a complete dud of a program - and the Danadians were already better last season :saint:
:lol: You like the Danadians, Laurence & Nikolaj. Good for you. I like L&N too. They are definitely more physically imposing on the ice than H/B. But technically better, no. Sure CoC is not the best H/B have skated this FD, which made them dead-in-the-water, especially with Wang/Liu skating at home with more crowd-pleasing material.

In terms of the RD, I expected H/B to place behind the Danadians. As is obvious, there just isn't a lot separating the top teams in the world who have good basic skills, except there's no question P/C have bravura skills and are head-and-shoulders above the field. But Wang/Liu are still building as a team technically, and weren't better than H/B in the RD. W/L are an excellent physical match, pleasing to watch, and the best of the Chinese ice dancers. Still, W/L are NOT better than H/B technically, no way. I think W/L were a bit overscored at CoC, but fine. There's always home-cooking in effect.

As has been said ad nauseam, these programs for H/B this season simply don't enhance who they are as skaters, which doesn't mean they aren't doing everything to sell them. I think they went into the FD at CoC with a lack of confidence this time, and it's no wonder with the drop in scores they have been suffering. And so it becomes a worse domino effect. Again, my first reaction to the debut of H/B's programs was that they work both programs, but the material is not great. The FD is particularly problematic and at CoC it completely fell flat. Both program concepts have been done before. As the third U.S. team, H/B are expendable, particularly without crowd-pleasing programs to enhance what they are good at.

At the same time, it's disingenuous to tear H/B down as not being good technically. In a way, some of this criticism reminds me of how some fans disliked the Shibs for a variety of reasons and were always attempting to dis them. The criticism just failed to keep the Shibs down, because they were always so awesome technically. Plus, the Shibs were very smart and always stayed a step ahead of the game in being as competitive as they could be and working on their weaknesses. They did a lot of outsourcing and networking to shore up and freshen their program ideas. Of course, none of the Shibs' strength and savvy kept their critics from constantly nitpicking.

Bottom line, no lie: Jean Luc Baker is hands down a better skater than Nikolaj Sorensen. Laurence is better than Nikolaj as a skater too, but together they have a sexy dynamic and a very engaging chemistry. Nikolaj presents Laurence well and she's just flat-out good and they are physically imposing as a team, so it works well and they are continuing to gain fans. Kaitlin Hawayek has always been a good skater, and she's improved to match Jean Luc technically. Since moving to Gadbois, Kaitlin has been skating with a great deal more confidence. But in terms of material, H/B have just been woefully let down this season. They can't afford to have to work so hard selling programs that aren't doing anything for them. It's always shark-fest open season on any U.S. team/ skaters who look blood-in-the-water vulnerable.
 
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Peepsquick

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374
:lol: You like the Danadians, Laurence & Nikolaj. Good for you. I like L&N too. They are definitely more physically imposing on the ice than H/B. But technically better, no. Sure CoC is not the best H/B have skated this FD, which made them dead-in-the-water, especially with Wang/Liu skating at home with more crowd-pleasing material.

In terms of the RD, I expected H/B to place behind the Danadians. As is obvious, there just isn't a lot separating the top teams in the world who have good basic skills, except there's no question P/C have bravura skills and are head-and-shoulders above the field. But Wang/Liu are still building as a team technically, and weren't better than H/B in the RD. W/L are an excellent physical match, pleasing to watch, and the best of the Chinese ice dancers. Still, W/L are NOT better than H/B technically, no way. I think W/L were a bit overscored at CoC, but fine.

As has been said ad nauseam, these programs for H/B this season simply don't enhance who they are as skaters, which doesn't mean they aren't doing everything to sell them. I think they went into the FD at CoC with a lack of confidence this time, and it's no wonder with the drop in scores they have been suffering. And so it becomes a worse domino effect. Again, my first reaction to the debut of H/B's programs was that they work both programs, but the material is not great. The FD is particularly problematic and at CoC it completely fell flat. Both program concepts have been done before. As the third U.S. team, H/B are expendable, particularly without crowd-pleasing programs to enhance what they are good at.

At the same time, it's disingenuous to tear H/B down as not being good technically. In a way, some of this criticism reminds me of how some fans disliked the Shibs for a variety of reasons and were always attempting to dis them. The criticism just failed to keep the Shibs down, because they were always so awesome technically. Plus, the Shibs were very smart and always stayed a step ahead of the game in being as competitive as they could be and working on their weaknesses. They did a lot of outsourcing and networking to shore up and freshen their program ideas. Of course, none of the Shibs' strength and savvy kept their critics from constantly nitpicking.

Bottom line, no lie: Jean Luc Baker is hands down a better skater than Nikolaj Sorensen. Laurence is better than Nikolaj as a skater too, but together they have a sexy dynamic and a very engaging chemistry. Nikolaj presents Laurence well and she's just flat-out good and they are physically imposing as a team, so it works well and they are continuing to gain fans. Kaitlin Hawayek has always been a good skater, and she's improved to match Jean Luc technically. Since moving to Gadbois, Kaitlin has been skating with a great deal more confidence. But in terms of material, H/B have just been woefully let down this season. They can't afford to have to work so hard selling programs that aren't doing anything for them. It's always open season on any U.S. team/ skaters who look vulnerable.
I really think that they chose the material themselves. Their previous rather romantic material might have shown their skills in a better light but I don't think it reflected their inner quirkiness. I am not happy with their results but I do think that they should have some creative space to be themselves on the ice.
 
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barbarafan

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4,648
Eh, come on! This is a push to take down U.S. ice dance teams. There's no way that S/K are 4 to 5 points better than Chock/Bates. And there's no way, no way that the Danadians and Wang/Liu are better than Hawayek/Baker! W/L .7 ahead of H/B! Puhleese!!! Give me a break please with that Chaplin program, and with another rendition of Singin' in the Rain. :rolleyes: And fans have been carping overtime on Madi/Zach and Hawayek/Baker for their program choices! :duh: It's just open season apparently on U.S. ice dance teams. As well, there's some obvious backlash being thrown toward Gadbois, but it just can't stick too well with Gadbois being state-of-the-art and coaching so many teams from different countries.

While I think S/K are improved, they simply ain't better than C/B. Both teams are very much on a par, so the politics goes in the Russians' favor obviously. Loads of GOE for S/K, and keeping down C/B's GOE. IOW, C/B being nitpicked and contained, while ignoring S/K's shortcomings.

Wang/Liu being placed ahead of H/B is pure home cookin' nonsense. H/B sat there and took it with barely batting an eye this time. They absolutely know what's happening, especially after being placed behind Fear/Gibson in their last outing. While F/G are wonderful and entertaining, they are not on the same level as H/B technically.

The Danadians are on a par with H/B, but are NOT better than H/B. The Danadians are certainly not 4+ points better than H/B. So here we are back to the days of old way off political placement scoring in ice dance, with U.S. teams in particular being purposely set up this season to be given the short end of the stick because U.S. teams are very competitive and very good, and have been for years. The rest of the world is getting tired of that. And it's also a reaction against North American dominance in ice dance as well. But Canadian fed is much more politically adept than U.S. fed.
I have only seen S/K and the Danadians. S/k were a snooze in Singing in the rain...K is no Kurt. The way he was screwing his face up I was sure he was on a roller coaster or really constipated. I haven't watched the long of the others yet so I won't comment....(yet)
 

Colonel Green

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5,771
But Wang/Liu are still building as a team technically, and weren't better than H/B in the RD. W/L are an excellent physical match, pleasing to watch, and the best of the Chinese ice dancers. Still, W/L are NOT better than H/B technically, no way.
Wang/Liu comprehensively beat Hawayek/Baker on RD levels, so it would seem that they were better technically.
 

aftershocks

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Wang/Liu comprehensively beat Hawayek/Baker on RD levels, so it would seem that they were better technically.
In this subjective, political sport, a lot of things can "seem" whatever which way. You got any excuses for NikVik pulling out that hugely overdone FD score! :blah:

Look, W/L are a good and an improving team. Plus, they are physically well-suited and more imposing on the ice than H/B in that respect. But W/L don't have a great RD program concept. They look cute, but it's boring. It's been done so often and they are adding nothing to it. W/L's FD is more crowd-pleasing than H/B's mishmash tango. Let's face it, H/B's programs aren't doing anything for them, which leads to them losing confidence. So that will ultimately affect performance level.

W/L are fine in the FD, but not spectacular. Their scores were a bit generous there too, but they are skating at home and got a boost. W/L's FD is not original either, but they look good and worked it to the best they could. It's an accessible program. It reminds me of what Shae Lynn Bourne and Shae Zukiwsky did for Kayne/O'Shea in their successful Swan Lake fp. So W/L and their coaches have transferred the same idea to ice dance.

You can go ahead and lie that W/L are more skilled technically than H/B. They aren't. Sure they are close in ability and improving all the time. Flat out, Jean Luc Baker is a much better skater, but fans look down on him for his size. So continue on. :watch:
 
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mollymgr

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4,053
Speaking of teams that have regressed, the Polish team is right up there. Even Ben commented last week, how they were fresh and new with their Dirty Dancing FD when they came on the scene but they aren’t able to generate that same kind of excitement. I can’t believe they would do the same music again. I think the judges totally take that into consideration and with more younger teams coming up with more exciting programs, these older teams are going to drop in rankings.
 

Colonel Green

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5,771
W/L are fine in the FD, but not spectacular. Their scores were a bit generous there too, but they are skating at home and got a boost.
It's actually only slightly higher than what they got at Finlandia.

You can go ahead and lie that W/L are more skilled technically than H/B.
Uh, nobody is saying that. H/B are the more skilled team. That doesn't mean that they skated better at this particular event, and they didn't.

Speaking of teams that have regressed, the Polish team is right up there. Even Ben commented last week, how they were fresh and new with their Dirty Dancing FD when they came on the scene but they aren’t able to generate that same kind of excitement. I can’t believe they would do the same music again. I think the judges totally take that into consideration and with more younger teams coming up with more exciting programs, these older teams are going to drop in rankings.
Spodyriev had a cycling injury in the summer that, while not as bad as it was initially reported, affected their preparations for the season. I imagine that repeating the only free dance was because they didn't have time to work up a new one.
 
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In this subjective, political sport, a lot of things can "seem" whatever which way. You got any excuses for NikVik pulling out that hugely overdone FD score! :blah:

Look, W/L are a good and an improving team. Plus, they are physically well-suited and more imposing on the ice than H/B in that respect. But W/L don't have a great RD program concept. They look cute, but it's boring. It's been done so often and they are adding nothing to it. W/L's FD is more crowd-pleasing than H/B's mishmash tango. Let's face it, H/B's programs aren't doing anything for them, which leads to them losing confidence. So that will ultimately affect performance level.

W/L are fine in the FD, but not spectacular. Their scores were a bit generous there too, but they are skating at home and got a boost. W/L's FD is not original either, but they look good and worked it to the best they could. It's an accessible program. It reminds me of what Shae Lynn Bourne and Shae Zukiwsky did for Kayne/O'Shea in their successful Swan Lake fp. So W/L and their coaches have transferred the same idea to ice dance.

You can go ahead and lie that W/L are more skilled technically than H/B. They aren't. Sure they are close in ability and improving all the time. Flat out, Jean Luc Baker is a much better skater, but fans look down on him for his size. So continue on. :watch:
In this subjective, political sport, a lot of things can "seem" whatever which way. You got any excuses for NikVik pulling out that hugely overdone FD score! :blah:

Look, W/L are a good and an improving team. Plus, they are physically well-suited and more imposing on the ice than H/B in that respect. But W/L don't have a great RD program concept. They look cute, but it's boring. It's been done so often and they are adding nothing to it. W/L's FD is more crowd-pleasing than H/B's mishmash tango. Let's face it, H/B's programs aren't doing anything for them, which leads to them losing confidence. So that will ultimately affect performance level.

W/L are fine in the FD, but not spectacular. Their scores were a bit generous there too, but they are skating at home and got a boost. W/L's FD is not original either, but they look good and worked it to the best they could. It's an accessible program. It reminds me of what Shae Lynn Bourne and Shae Zukiwsky did for Kayne/O'Shea in their successful Swan Lake fp. So W/L and their coaches have transferred the same idea to ice dance.

You can go ahead and lie that W/L are more skilled technically than H/B. They aren't. Sure they are close in ability and improving all the time. Flat out, Jean Luc Baker is a much better skater, but fans look down on him for his size. So continue on. :watch:
While I don’t enjoy H/B free dance I do appreciate how committed they are, they really do try to sell it.I can imagine that after winning last years NHK and reaching the GPF they most be really disappointed with this seasons showings so far. They are still great skaters so hopefully they can regroup and have a strong second part of the season
 

aftershocks

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I really think that they chose the material themselves.
You think? Do you have a link? There have been some articles written on U.S. Figure Skating Fan Zone in which H/B discuss how the FD came about. The idea was given to them by M-F. I'm not sure about the genesis for the RD. Obviously, Gadbois is running thin on fresh ideas with all the teams they have, and the timeframes in which to turn around two programs for each team every season.

There were so many other directions H/B could have gone in for their RD -- I earlier listed some ready-made Broadway offerings they could have sunk their blades into to better effect. The tango mishmash was just not well thought out. I get that they were somehow trying to go for humor, but they are trying to do too much, and the program doesn't flow or tell a story well. The music cuts lag, and the humor doesn't come fully across and is not sustained.

Fear/Gibson did disco previously to great effect (surely inspired by Gilles/Poirier), but F/G put their own unique stylistic stamp on what they did and elevated their profile. F/G have things to work on technically, but they are an exciting team to watch, and audiences respond (which means the judges respond). I'm happy for F/G breaking through to medal on the GP, and I look forward to seeing their further progress. F/G's Madonna program works beautifully, and in places and overall concept seems inspired a bit by what Manta/Johnson did at 2019 U.S. Nationals with their vogueing Sweet Dreams rendition. The Danadians are also an exciting team to watch, and good for them.

Still I'm going to be honest about what I see, and I'm not going to knock a team's abilities simply because they don't have good programs. Plus looking down on teams for their size is not very nice. Yes, I know figure skating is not nice and the scoring is routinely what it is -- not always fair but always a mix of politics, subjectivity, rep status, and overall effect of material, ability and performance level on the day.
 
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aftershocks

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Uh, nobody is saying that. H/B are the more skilled team. That doesn't mean that they skated better at this particular event, and they didn't.
:p Thanks for clarifying then. Now, did I say that H/B skated better at this event? In the RD, I think H/B skated fine but not as good as at their last event. However, I don't think H/B skated .7 behind Wang/Liu in the RD. I expected H/B to be behind the Danadians in the RD, but not behind that Chaplin RD by W/L. H/B's FD was very flat and they visibly lacked confidence, so it's not surprising their scores dropped. Still, I thought the drop was more severe than deserved, while W/L were definitely given a boost skating at home.

It's not clear what the answer will be for H/B. Maybe some of H/B's fans can speak up. I admire H/B for their talent, but as I noted before the GP started, I'm not impressed by either of their programs this season. Still, the overly negative fan chatter is unwarranted. There's simply a lot of depth in ice dance, which means a lot of political scoring and fans understandably promoting their favorites and talking down teams they don't like.
 
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Dobre

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7,031
Wang & Liu have a fabulous RD this season. No, they aren't the strongest technical team; but they have been doing better than most of the Montreal teams at bringing in the pattern.

Hawayek & Baker have issues on the levels in the RD. It's been true for a long time and has not been improving since they have moved to Montreal. Just for clarity's sake, the caller at Cup of China was Korean, not Chinese. (And if one feels like conspiracy theories, the Korean dance team is coached by Shpilband). H&B do for sure have a huge target on their back, but Wang & Liu are not their major problem. W&L have this great RD; but H&B could have pulled up in the FD as they have done over various teams many times in the past if they had not made nervy mistakes. Which they have also done often enough in the past.

Speaking of teams that have regressed, the Polish team is right up there. Even Ben commented last week, how they were fresh and new with their Dirty Dancing FD when they came on the scene but they aren’t able to generate that same kind of excitement. I can’t believe they would do the same music again.
Spodyriev was in a cast this summer. I can understand that they probably didn't have time to put together a new FD; and considering that, I also think Dirty Dancing seems like a very logical choice for a Worlds in Canada. Anything upbeat will not go amiss, as was pretty obvious at SC. By the time we got around to the Madonna program, the crowd was very well primed for something they could get involved in. I agree that K&S look rough and not ready right now. They always look that way early on the GP though, and they always look more polished & ready by the late CS events and Europeans.
 

aftershocks

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While I don’t enjoy H/B free dance I do appreciate how committed they are, they really do try to sell it. I can imagine that after winning last years NHK and reaching the GPF they most be really disappointed with this seasons showings so far. They are still great skaters so hopefully they can regroup and have a strong second part of the season.
FYI-- There's a problem with your quote marks in your previous post, so this comment by you got completely hidden.

Thanks for your sympathetic thoughts for H/B. They deserve fans to have a bit more compassion and sympathy for them. They are good skaters who find themselves in a bit of a predicament this season. M-F and Patch apparently have no answers. Kaitlin took the RD score in stride, but she looked devastated after the FD score. Patch sympathetically rubbed her on the back. It's harder to decipher Jean Luc's reaction. He seems to have an upbeat, steady mood and a cheerful personality.

At this point, H/B have to start thinking about who they are as a team and where they want to go from here. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Davis/White and the Shibs never rested on their laurels or even expected Marina to have all the answers for them creatively. Both teams were always on a mission to improve. Neither team stopped with input from Marina and their coaching team; they actively sought outside help in a number of creative fields, including among figure skaters/ choreographers they admired to put together competitive programs each season that worked for them or that at least kept them in contention.
 
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aftershocks

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Thanks as always for your insider, expert knowledge @Dobre. Having these facts you present doesn't change much. It's always the cliche response to accuse someone of creating conspiracy theories when 'home-cooking' is mentioned. :drama:

It is what it is. I don't care how the judging panel is constituted. There's politicking in fs, no matter your factoid explanations. As I said, W/L are a good and an improving team. They are still not technically as good as H/B. But H/B do not have programs that are working well for them, particularly not the FD. Plus the buzz and perception is down on H/B. So, unsurprisingly they have been dropped, especially as a third place U.S. team who are not a well-established, veteran front-running team. Being dropped in the scores is affecting H/B's confidence and performance level as well.

... but H&B could have pulled up in the FD as they have done over various teams many times in the past if they had not made nervy mistakes. Which they have also done often enough in the past.
:lol: Honestly, H/B weren't going to pull up, no matter how well they skated that program. They just wouldn't have been dropped as much in the scoring had they skated better. They did skate this FD better in their first outings, but the material isn't the best for them and the reaction has not been good from fans and audiences. There's heavy competition with the huge depth in ice dance these days, so they got passed at their last GP, which has hurt their confidence. Getting dropped .7 behind W/L in the RD was a further punch to their confidence. Figure skating is hard enough without having to work overtime trying to sell material that isn't doing much for you.

Your comment is such a 'nervy' negative-nancy putdown by you @Dobre. Funnily enough, it reminds me of how some critics love to put down Madi/Zach for making mistakes and causing their own problems. Bash them when they're down and blame them for being taken down. It's all their fault. They could've done better. Got to uphold those ISU judges' scores. :watch:

Wang & Liu are not their major problem.
Who said W/L are H/B's major problem though? It's just extra pile-on for H/B who know they are better skaters than W/L. Good for underdog, less tech-talented W/L for minding their patterns and p's and q's. :cheer2: Cool for them skating at home too, where they definitely got a boost in the scores.

I've previously enjoyed watching W/L -- their growth is interesting. I was intrigued by their RD costumes, but I totally zoned out when I saw they were skating to Chaplin. That program concept is overdone, over and over again. Please no more! :drama: The Swan Lake FD is crowd-pleasing and a good program for them to practice their dramatic performance skills.
 
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aftershocks

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... kudos again to C/B for winning the FD
Yep, that's always the consolation prize against usually a Russian team overscored in the first program, so much so that it's impossible to overtake them with a better FD/fp to win outright. The same happened in pairs to Denney/ Frazier twice on the GP this season -- they beat the same young Russian team twice in the fp as consolation. At least one of those times, D/F deserved to win overall with better programs and performances. :p Yep, I know @Dobre, it's D/F's fault for not always aceing their jumps! :COP:

Chock/Bates have had wonderful programs from Dubreuil for two seasons running. This snake-charming FD is only getting better every time out. It shows off what Maddie is good at. And Evan is looking stronger as a performer. The hair makeover for him has worked wonders. Maddie/Evan work well together and seem to be having fun in their new training environment. I think M-F Dubreuil has seemingly found a muse in Maddie whom she connects with. They are physically similar and possibly match-up personality-wise too.

Another aside: Zhulin was so drop-dead gorgeous as a young man back-in-the-day. I couldn't believe how handsome he was when I saw him up-close and personal at an event. :swoon: It's hard to fathom his Adonis visage turning into old-age chubby cheeks, balding pate, grizzled beard, and tired eyes. But yep, he's still kickin' it with his ice dancers, especially politically. Zhulin and crew were sitting in the kiss 'n cry knowing NikVika didn't deserve those scores. But yep, they sat there with plastered smiles and relief all around. Let's see if the Rusfed politics holds up in ice dance. I expect that it will, and maybe NikVik will begin to at least earn their scoring boost. Please find better programs pdq!!! Good grief.
 

starrynight

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2,162
Just as an aside, I found the voice over in P/C's free skate incredibly distracting. I think because the words were all blurring together over the sound system I was trying to listen to the words and couldn't concentrate on the program. It certainly doesn't add anything musically to the program.

I wonder what the audio would be like for non-English speakers? If you were Japanese, Russian or Chinese etc and didn't speak English, would the talking in the middle of the program have any impact?

I can't help but feel the voice over has been put in there to window dress this program into something ~new~. If you take away the voice over, the program is pretty solidly in P/C's wheelhouse. But good on P/C for getting away with this - not too many skaters get away with adding voice overs to programs particularly ones where the voice overs are so achingly serious.
 
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puglover

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1,958
I am a totally Johnny-come-lately to fandom for C/B. Last year I was so taken with their programs and loved the free dance. I am always a sucker for something new and agree this current free dance really shows off their strengths along with having a cool narrative that they carry through the dance.
 

Colonel Green

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5,771
:p Thanks for clarifying then. Now, did I say that H/B skated better at this event? In the RD, I think H/B skated fine but not as good as at their last event. However, I don't think H/B skated .7 behind Wang/Liu in the RD. I expected H/B to be behind the Danadians in the RD, but not behind that Chaplin RD by W/L.
I didn't expect them to be behind either, but they didn't get the levels -- if anything, under the pre-2018 system they'd have been insuperably behind as a result of losing that many levels.
 

starrynight

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I am a totally Johnny-come-lately to fandom for C/B. Last year I was so taken with their programs and loved the free dance. I am always a sucker for something new and agree this current free dance really shows off their strengths along with having a cool narrative that they carry through the dance.
I agree. It's really cool to get a more theatrical free dance from a top team. And the whole Madison is the exotic dangerous snake and Evan is the snake charmer is just a brilliant narrative for those two. I think it represents them both on ice and off ice really really well.

It's also a very welcome break from all the contemporary lyrical dance that has come from the top teams over the last quad and a half.

And I just adore Madison's costume. It must have cost a fortune, but I think it was worth every penny because it sets the scene perfectly before the free dance even begins. It must look spectacular in real life. And I think Evan's costume really works in connection with Madison's.

Chock/Bates for National Champs and World Silver!

I really enjoyed these fan art drawings. The first one of the Egyptian tomb carvings is GENIUS:


 

Peepsquick

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374
You think? Do you have a link? There have been some articles written on U.S. Figure Skating Fan Zone in which H/B discuss how the FD came about. The idea was given to them by M-F.
Sorry @aftershocks, I am just going with my guts on this one, especially the FD. MF probably chose the concept but she is trying to connect to each team, find their "essence' so to speak (sounds a bit too serious :COP:!) and H/B are rather goofy. They are very talented and I always enjoy their skating but this particular quirky FD help to distinguish them from any other team. I like that.
 

puglover

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Messages
1,958
I agree. It's really cool to get a more theatrical free dance from a top team. And the whole Madison is the exotic dangerous snake and Evan is the snake charmer is just a brilliant narrative for those two. I think it represents them both on ice and off ice really really well.

It's also a very welcome break from all the contemporary lyrical dance that has come from the top teams over the last quad and a half.

And I just adore Madison's costume. It must have cost a fortune, but I think it was worth every penny because it sets the scene perfectly before the free dance even begins. It must look spectacular in real life. And I think Evan's costume really works in connection with Madison's.

Chock/Bates for National Champs and World Silver!

I really enjoyed these fan art drawings. The first one of the Egyptian tomb carvings is GENIUS:


Her hair is amazing as well. I love it when the whole concept is pretty well spelled out from the music to the costuming to the choreography and then when those moves suit the particular skaters strengths and is unique and different - well that is a home run for me.
 

yurokis40

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Messages
569
H
C&B have like one intricate behind the back hold in the entire FD and they get those marks? And people think it's deserved?

It's a decent FD compared to their others, but, come on.
i agree this fd is overrated the Egyptian theme has been done to death and Evan bates is not a good ice dancer he is just there as a prop for chock, this is more about us fed politicking to keep a us team in contention after the implosion of h&d.
 

Bigbird

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Messages
1,213
H

i agree this fd is overrated the Egyptian theme has been done to death and Evan bates is not a good ice dancer he is just there as a prop for chock, this is more about us fed politicking to keep a us team in contention after the implosion of h&d.
So what does Vika do, no less.? But the program and execution by C/B was just superior today. We can at least give them that. They did the better FD today.
 

yurokis40

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Messages
569
Sinkats have a very dull fd ugly wobbly lifts shaky twizzles if they are beaten by g&p next week then Russian fed will switch support to step bukin
 

Colonel Green

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5,771
Sinkats have a very dull fd ugly wobbly lifts shaky twizzles if they are beaten by g&p next week then Russian fed will switch support to step bukin
They won’t lose to Gilles/Poirier in Russia unless Nikita decides to make Rostelecom the location for his annual twizzle wipeout.
 

bcash

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Messages
299
Just as an aside, I found the voice over in P/C's free skate incredibly distracting. I think because the words were all blurring together over the sound system I was trying to listen to the words and couldn't concentrate on the program. It certainly doesn't add anything musically to the program.

I wonder what the audio would be like for non-English speakers? If you were Japanese, Russian or Chinese etc and didn't speak English, would the talking in the middle of the program have any impact?

I can't help but feel the voice over has been put in there to window dress this program into something ~new~. If you take away the voice over, the program is pretty solidly in P/C's wheelhouse. But good on P/C for getting away with this - not too many skaters get away with adding voice overs to programs particularly ones where the voice overs are so achingly serious.
Maybe try giving up on figuring out the words next time. I don’t think they intended for you to digest every word - it’s a skating program after all. I found the spoken track slightly intrusive at a couple spots but mostly took in the skating as I was watching. The program still has the most natural rise and fall (while containing many mini-rises-and-falls within it), and feels most like a seamless organic whole, rather than a series of elements linked together. The program just reminded me they are still the best at this.
 

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