The Dance Hall 6: We're All Off Our Rockers 2018-2019

[muffinplus]

I do remember an incident during the practices at the Olympics when they deliberately crossed into the path of Weaver/Poje. It just resulted in them getting yelled at by both W/P and Virtue/Moir (who were also at the practice). I would have imagined that in the end that was more distracting to G/P than it was to W/P.

Was there a video of this?

 

[Wyliefan]

Oh yeah, I remember hearing about that at the time. I don't remember whether there was video, though.

 

[Peepsquick]

Was it just clumsiness or was it intentional? There always seems to be a lot of potential for accidents during the practice sessions ...

 

[VGThuy]

I saw a video of it. It wasn't on YouTube but someone at Pyeongchang took it. G/P either weren't paying attention or didn't care, but W/P had the right of way as their music was playing and G/P decided to practice their FW sequence and was in W/P's way. Kaitlyn yelled at Piper to watch out or something like that and it interrupted Weaver/Poje's run-through completely and G/P ended up getting out of the way thus interrupting what they were working on. Before the Olympics, some fans were noticing G/P had a tendency to get in other skaters' way during competition practice during their run-throughs all season. One incident happened with the Shibs at Skate America. Some times accidents happen when there are so many skaters out there in practice (like when Nikita got in the Shibs way but at SA but Nikita came up to them and apologized and both Shibs and S/K were smiling and in good spirits during their exchange), but some who were noticing it with G/P noticed it seemed more than an accident. If not intentional then maybe it was more to do with G/P just being used to "owning the ice" at their home rink and not being aware of their surroundings.

 

[RoseRed]

I saw a video of it. I wasn't on YouTube but someone at Pyeongchang took it. G/P either weren't paying attention or didn't care, but W/P had the right of way as their music was playing and G/P decided to practice their FW sequence and was in W/P's way. Kaitlyn yelled at Piper to watch out or something like that and it interrupted Weaver/Poje's run-through completely and G/P ended up getting out of the way thus interrupting what they were working on. Before the Olympics, some fans were noticing G/P had a tendency to get in other skaters' way during competition practice during their run-throughs all season. One incident happened with the Shibs at Skate America. Some times accidents happen when there are so many skaters out there in practice (like when Nikita got in the Shibs way but at SA but Nikita came up to them and apologized and both Shibs and S/K were smiling and in good spirits during their exchange), but some who were noticing it with G/P noticed it seemed more than an accident. If not intentional then maybe it was more to do with G/P just being used to "owning the ice" at their home rink and not being aware of their surroundings.

I've seen that a few times with Nikita I think. He and Victoria full on hit Tessa (they left a bruise on her leg and ripped her tights) at NHK in 2016, and took a few minutes to come and apologize. Scott looked really mad.

 

[Holy Headband]

G/P are notorious for doing this in warm-ups, so I highly, highly doubt they--two athletes competing at the elite level in a sport that requires coordination and synchronicity--are somehow just clumsier or more inattentive than 95% of all other ice dance couples.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I do remember an incident during the practices at the Olympics when they deliberately crossed into the path of Weaver/Poje. It just resulted in them getting yelled at by both W/P and Virtue/Moir (who were also at the practice). I would have imagined that in the end that was more distracting to G/P than it was to W/P.

LOLLLLL Good times!

This reminds me when good ole Kat used to stare down her competition in warmups...

Ahhhhhhh, the 80s!!!!!!!

 

[nimi]

If not intentional then maybe it was more to do with G/P just being used to "owning the ice" at their home rink and not being aware of their surroundings.

Might be a factor. That rink sure isn't the Gadbois...

G/P are notorious for doing this in warm-ups, so I highly, highly doubt they--two athletes competing at the elite level in a sport that requires coordination and synchronicity--are somehow just clumsier or more inattentive than 95% of all other ice dance couples.

They're on record talking about how clumsy Paul is (accidentally swinging at Carol because he didn't notice she was right there etc.) and how the competition practices can be a "a nightmare" sometimes and you can "get lost in the moment" but "no-one's intentionally trying to run into people": https://youtu.be/apmHH6i5new?t=805

But if you want to believe they're lying liars and just two horrible, unsportsmanlike people hell-bent on sabotaging other teams' practice, even at the cost of disrupting their own practice and potentially risking an injury, that's of course your prerogative.

 

[barbarafan]

Might be a factor. That rink sure isn't the Gadbois...

They're on record talking about how clumsy Paul is (accidentally swinging at Carol because he didn't notice she was right there etc.) and how the competition practices can be a "a nightmare" sometimes and you can "get lost in the moment" but "no-one's intentionally trying to run into people": https://youtu.be/apmHH6i5new?t=805

But if you want to believe they're lying liars and just two horrible, unsportsmanlike people hell-bent on sabotaging other teams' practice, even at the cost of disrupting their own practice and potentially risking an injury, that's of course your prerogative.

After the incident at NHK with Nikita and V/M PJKwong did a little thing on facebook (PJ is pals with Carol Lane &Debbie Wilkes)with Kurt Browning where pJ declared that all ice dancers play chicken on practices and warmups at competitions which really made me very angry. I am sure at any reputable rink in Canada a team doing that would be shown the door. I don't want to say anything about any other country as I just don't know. If it every came to pass that word came to SC than any coach was encouraging teams to do that kind of crap that there would be repercussions against the coach and rink involved.

 

[kittysk8ts]

I've seen that a few times with Nikita I think. He and Victoria full on hit Tessa (they left a bruise on her leg and ripped her tights) at NHK in 2016, and took a few minutes to come and apologize. Scott looked really mad.

Yup. Nikita was trying to find an opportunity to apologize, but Tessa and Scott quickly went to the boards. Nikita was trying though

 

[sharsk8s]

There was also that time that p/c almost hit v/m at TEB 2013 (before anyone knew who p/c were). They apologized and hugged but I remember scott was mad

 

[kittysk8ts]

There was also that time that p/c almost hit v/m at TEB 2013 (before anyone knew who p/c were). They apologized and hugged but I remember scott was mad

True. And Marina was mad too. Only because their music was playing though.

There is also footage of Tessa and Scott having to drop out of lift during a Carmen run-through and by the time they re-grouped, their music was over. They continued to the end with Scott singing the music.

 

[believed]

There is also footage of Tessa and Scott having to drop out of lift during a Carmen run-through and by the time they re-grouped, their music was over. They continued to the end with Scott singing the music.

That was also Nikita (and Elena), iirc.

 

[Barbara Manatee]

They're on record talking about how clumsy Paul is (accidentally swinging at Carol because he didn't notice she was right there etc.) and how the competition practices can be a "a nightmare" sometimes and you can "get lost in the moment" but "no-one's intentionally trying to run into people": https://youtu.be/apmHH6i5new?t=805

Every team gets in someone else's way now and then, that's inevitable. I have no idea if G/P do it more than others. But if they do, I doubt that it's simple clumsiness. There are lots of elite athletes who are awkward as heck - away from their sport. I can believe that Paul dribbles when he drinks or waves his arms around in conversation. I can't believe he doesn't know exactly where he is on an ice rink.

 

[yurokis40]

Love G&P hope they win a medal next month , I doubt they deliberately try to run into someone at practice, the Russian couples are known for doing that its part of the game I guess just like a boxer trying to psych out his opponent I guess.

 

[chantilly]

I saw Paul get in the way of W and P at Nationals.
Obviously it’s hard for any of us to say and sometimes see exactly exactly what happens, but from what I remember Paul was just a bit careless.
I saw no deliberation.
I just think they are all nervous and stressed and trying to stay focused.
I can’t say for certain if G and P are more guilty of it, but I know it’s happened quite a bit with them. And generally it’s Paul.
Scott yelled at him once to get out of the way.

 

[starrynight]

Do G/P share the ice with other teams in their day to day training?

I recall that the practice at Olympics only had three teams on the ice - W/P, V/M and G/P because it was a Canada only dance practice. So it wasn't crowded. At the time, V/M were just skating laps next to the boards, so there was only 1 team to avoid on a whole sheet of Olympic sized ice.

By comparison, I can imagine all the teams at Gadbois have become experts at dodging lol. The full scale warm-up pre-flight would just be another morning on the ice lol.

 

[laviemn]

Might be a factor. That rink sure isn't the Gadbois...

They're on record talking about how clumsy Paul is (accidentally swinging at Carol because he didn't notice she was right there etc.) and how the competition practices can be a "a nightmare" sometimes and you can "get lost in the moment" but "no-one's intentionally trying to run into people": https://youtu.be/apmHH6i5new?t=805

But if you want to believe they're lying liars and just two horrible, unsportsmanlike people hell-bent on sabotaging other teams' practice, even at the cost of disrupting their own practice and potentially risking an injury, that's of course your prerogative.

I haven't watched these videos so don't have an opinion about G/P's intentions, but if any skaters were intentionally psyching out opponents with unsportsmanlike behavior, would they just admit it in an interview? Or would they present the most positive spin possible?

There are sports where athletes can be honest about this, but skating in North America isn't a culture that allows its athletes to be complicated people.

 

[starrynight]

I haven't watched these videos so don't have an opinion about G/P's intentions, but if any skaters were intentionally psyching out opponents with unsportsmanlike behavior, would they just admit it in an interview? Or would they present the most positive spin possible?

There are sports where athletes can be honest about this, but skating in North America isn't a culture that allows its athletes to be complicated people.

Is there rules against deliberately getting in people’s way in the warm ups and practices? If there isn’t I could imagine one would be introduced if doing it deliberately became an openly done thing.

It’s not like other kinds of psyching out because of how dangerous it is. Take Osmond breaking her leg during an accidental collision. Also for example if Virtue/Moir had collided mid-lift with Elena/Nikita back in 2012 that could have easily been career ending for Virtue given the potential for very serious injury there.

Appropriate psyching out is doing things like the Russian girls doing 5 triple combos in practice. You’re terrifying the opposition but you’re not hurting anyone.

Although blocking teams practices and warm ups can be very strategic. For example if you know a team really wants to practice an element during warm up so they don’t go ‘in cold’ during the program, blocking them or near missing to stop the element could help a rival a lot. Likewise if you totally disrupt a run through in practice. The team only has one chance to have the music played.

But if any team was actually planning something like that I’d be recommending they concentrate more on their own skating.

 

[mollymgr]

I don't think they are intentionally running into people. Just think about this. If they run into someone and they are the ones who end up getting hurt in the process, it would be extremely unfortunate and not to their advantage. I do think that maybe they are not as comfortable during warm-ups and practices. If Paul is clumsy, maybe he has poor judgment/space perception in terms of him being on the ice and how to react when several others are on the ice and coming from all directions and speeds. I agree that practices and warm-ups for ice dance are really important since judges are pre-judging you. That combined with the nervousness may be a bad mix.

 

[sharsk8s]

The gadbois teams have said that they like when other teams in their skate group are from gadbois because it makes it easier since they know their path (someone said it at 4cc I just forget who). I think makes sense because it must be difficult to always avoid teams when you don't know where they are going but to a certain extent you just need to have awareness that it isn't a private session and especially look out for teams if their music is playing. I doubt g/p do it intentionally because they seem like sweet people but they have developed a reputation because of their practice sessions.

 

[chameleonster]

Honestly, setting aside the issue of whether they're the kind of people who would do that intentionally, my issue is that intentionally getting in the way during warmups seems like a very high risk maneuver for relatively little pay off. When you have collisions or near misses, both parties seem rattled and both can come away with injuries. Whatever psychological advantage you might gain from freaking out your rivals does you no good if you put yourself or your partner in the hospital with a concussion.

 

[sharsk8s]

Yeah I can't imagine intentionally trying to get in the way of the other teams. You/your partner can get injured and I don't think the judges look positively on that

 

[supergirl573]

Yeah I can't imagine intentionally trying to get in the way of the other teams. You/your partner can get injured and I don't think the judges look positively on that

That could explain some of the scores G/P have gotten when I think they should have gotten higher.

 

[professordeb]

Every time I have watched Paul (with either partner) bombing down the ice all the time, apparently unaware that they are the way of the couple for whom the music is playing. I have seen he and his partner always "making he ice their own" by coming close to the couple who are supposed to be skating. Paul may be beloved by those at his training rink but I cannot stand to watch him -- this type or other things I have noticed -- and his partner is then also seen with the "sarcastic" glasses I am wearing that day. Sorry to you Paul Poirier fans.

 

[sharsk8s]

I was discussing with someone earlier about the requirements for a L4 lift. I see so many people complaining about the insanely high scores of teams doing a gadbois sit lift which are far from senior level. I feel we can't blame teams for doing them if that is what is getting rewarded. There are a few which are really stunning but by going back and watching old videos from 2005-2015 it is clear the lifts have gotten easier. Do you guys think that they need to fix the criteria to get a L4 lift with good GOE or is it fine the way it is? (just curious because I have seen so many people argue about this in different places)

 

[cocotaffy]

I guess on a sport point of view, one would think the hardest the better to distinguish the best from the rest. However, I personally can't stand overly complicated and acrobatic lifts. Of course, being a super fan of P/C says it all I'd rather have the innovation coming from unusual position but one that is hold at least enough for it to express something. 20 positions a minute for instance just make no sense. I find Gadbois has done great at trying to find original lifts position, especially lower ones like many of P/C lifts, or striking one like their Mozart "Kiss lift" without sacrificing the musicality. Maybe the trick could be to increase the importance of a difficult entry and/or exit instead of focusing only on the lift positions.

 

[muffinplus]

I guess on a sport point of view, one would think the hardest the better to distinguish the best from the rest. However, I personally can't stand overly complicated and acrobatic lifts. Of course, being a super fan of P/C says it all I'd rather have the innovation coming from unusual position but one that is hold at least enough for it to express something. 20 positions a minutes for instance just make no sense. I find Gadbois has done great at trying to find original lifts position, especially lower ones like many of P/C lifts, or striking one like their Mozart "Kiss lift" without sacrificing the musicality. Maybe the trick could be to increase the importance of a difficult entry and/or exit instead of focusing only on the lift positions.

But P/C's ending rotational lift in Mozart ( which is one of my favorite lifts) was quite acrobatic from a change of position POV, while still managing *to be very beautiful

 

[dramagrrl]

I find Gadbois has done great at trying to find original lifts position, especially lower ones like many of P/C lifts, or striking one like their Mozart "Kiss lift" without sacrificing the musicality.

Just want to point out that many of the lower lifts (including the one that P&C have in their FD this season) are not "original" - Shpilband/Zueva teams were doing very similar lifts as early as the late 90s.

 

[Dobre]

What lifts do people like this season?

-I am happy to see McNamara & Carpenter's lift in the RD this season. They tried out a similar over-the-shoulder lift two years ago and had to scrap it, probably because it wasn't yet ready. Love that they have kept after it and added the secondary tango position for this year's RD.

-I love Nguyen & Kolesnik's final lift in their FD. The way it changes position with such ease & still allows her to fly.

-I like the quirky final position in Shpilevaya & Smirnov's FD. Didn't work out at Nationals, but most of the season it was great. Totally fit the offbeat look they were striving for.

-Ushakova & Nekrasov's execution of their lift--I want to say the last one in their FD, but it's been a while since I watched it--really impressed me at the JGPF. Definitely a +GOE element in my book.

-Also I like Monaghan & Razgulajev's low tango-style lift at the start of their RD. Fits the style beautifully, sets the mood, and nice speed of rotation by Nationals.

-And I like Guignard & Fabbri's low lift as well. Great control & flare.