The Dance Hall 6: We're All Off Our Rockers 2018-2019

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sharsk8s said:
Do they take into account if people didn't compete at a certain competition or competed less (such as p/c and c/b missing grand prixs due to injury)
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No. Points are earned based on events competed and placement. If a team misses a comp or part of a season, they likely will drop a bit in the standings. But I doubt judges are tracking who is ranked where.
 
sharsk8s said:
Does it really count for anything? I know the top few teams at worlds are seeded for Grand Prix's so is it just so teams can evaluate their development compared to others?
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It determines starting orders at events (so, for instance, the final rhythm dance group at Worlds will be Hubbell/Donohue, Papadakis/Cizeron, Guignard/Fabbri, Stepanova/Bukin, and Chock/Bates), and is important for Grand Prix selection if you aren’t seeded.
 
RoseRed said:
Being top 24 in the WS list after the season ends guarantees one GP. And the starting orders at events are based on World Standing.
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Are teams kept on it even if they are not competing that season or likely retired (v/m, b/s, s/s). Doesn't that hurt other teams that are currently competing from making the top 24 for next season
 
sharsk8s said:
Are teams kept on it even if they are not competing that season or likely retired (v/m, b/s, s/s).
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See for yourself: http://www.isuresults.com/ws/ws/wsdance.htm

Here's the ISU communication that explains the principles (NB that there have been a couple of changes since this communication was released, e.g. the introduction of Challenger Series):
https://isu.org/inside-isu/isu-communications/communications/1625-1629-world-standing-sandp-id/file

Also, have you noticed this thread for miscellaneous skating related questions?
https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/newbie-and-or-dumb-questions.104775/
If you want more in-depth explanations about the WS system or GP spots etc, that might be a good place to post your questions.
 
sharsk8s said:
Are teams kept on it even if they are not competing that season or likely retired (v/m, b/s, s/s). Doesn't that hurt other teams that are currently competing from making the top 24 for next season
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I believe the top 24 is based on teams competing in the coming season. So I don't think V/M, the Shibs, etc, were counted in the top 24 as their feds did not submit their names for GP assignments.
 
nimi said:
See for yourself: http://www.isuresults.com/ws/ws/wsdance.htm

Here's the ISU communication that explains the principles (NB that there have been a couple of changes since this communication was released, e.g. the introduction of Challenger Series):
https://isu.org/inside-isu/isu-communications/communications/1625-1629-world-standing-sandp-id/file

Also, have you noticed this thread for miscellaneous skating related questions?
https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/newbie-and-or-dumb-questions.104775/
If you want more in-depth explanations about the WS system or GP spots etc, that might be a good place to post your questions.
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Sorry I didn't see that thread, thanks!
 
Debbie S said:
I believe the top 24 is based on teams competing in the coming season. So I don't think V/M, the Shibs, etc, were counted in the top 24 as their feds did not submit their names for GP assignments.
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That's interesting. I haven't heard this, but it could make things nicer for a few teams if it is true. Can anyone confirm if this has actually happened? Paging @kwanfan1818. (This year it wouldn't have mattered because there was enough room on the GP for teams quite far down the SB list so I would think anyone close to the top 24 on the WS list would already have made the invite list via their SB. Could matter for teams trying to qualify for next season, though).
 
Dobre said:
. I haven't heard this, but it could make things nicer for a few teams if it is true. Can anywone confirm if this has actually happened? Paging @kwanfan1818
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That's not the way the rule is written - - not that it's ever stopped the ISU before - - but I'm fairly certain that there have been skaters who would have moved to the Top 24 SB or Top 24 WS list had the skaters and teams who skipped GP or split or retired been removed and everyone else moved up, and who did not get an initial spot, but who later got spots off the alternate list, the caveat being that the whole names submission process is not in the Announcement.

The SB list remains static, even if skaters retire or teams split. At least in the past, skaters and teams who have retired have been removed from the WS list if the Feds notify the ISU. (I don't know if skaters have to sign something.) Mostly they don't bother and fall down and off the list.
 
kwanfan1818 said:
That's not the way the rule is written - - not that it's ever stopped the ISU before - - but I'm fairly certain that there have been skaters who would have moved to the Top 24 SB or Top 24 WS list had the skaters and teams who skipped GP or split or retired been removed and everyone else moved up, and who did not get an initial spot, but who later got spots off the alternate list, the caveat being that the whole names submission process is not in the Announcement.
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I stand corrected. But yes, I would imagine that if X number of skaters/teams in the top 24 retire, close to X number of skaters/teams just outside the list will end up getting a GP anyway. This season had retirements (or withdrawals) in all disciplines, and quite a few skaters/teams on the alternate list got an assignment.
 
Dobre said:
I fear that Zach missed out on the early talk-to-the-media training that many of the U.S. dance team members had during the developmental stage of their careers. Perhaps this is like flexibility and needs to be drilled into one's body/personality at an early age.
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Yes, it looks like Zach has not handled himself too well lately.

But it seems like he can still be a good sport because I've noticed that he has liked some of Piper's tweets/photos about her Mom, and when she & Paul got onto the podium.
 
Debbie S said:
I stand corrected. But yes, I would imagine that if X number of skaters/teams in the top 24 retire, close to X number of skaters/teams just outside the list will end up getting a GP anyway.
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Yes, teams will get the berths, and GP hosts could very well choose to invite a team just below the top 24 on the WS list during the initial draw. But if you are sitting outside the top 24, GP hosts can also select someone else to offer that spot. And once we are past the initial draw, hosts usually select from the top 10 on the replacement list--which is based on SB rankings rather than WS rankings. So for teams like Lajoie & Lagha, Komatsubara & Koleto, Popova & Mozgov, or Shevchenko & Eremenko (S&E are currently on the SB bubble in 24th), a top 24 placement on the WS list could make the difference in whether they receive 1, 2, or 0 invitations.
 
Judges didn´t know that Charlie White is dating Tanith :huh: ?
Chemistry between partners is quite an extra gift, which is really difficult to learn when there isn´t. Some ice dance team are for me more sibling looking than real siblings. OTOH you don´t need to look like you are so in love with your partner to win gold medals.
 
:huh: Really ... this is all nonsense in my book. It is make-believe, people! Like all gifted performers, dance teams can show emotions and connection with their partner regardless of their relationship with them (siblings , friends or other ...).
That judges would be troubled by "fake" amorous chemistry between siblings would bother me a great deal ... most teams are not partners in life. It is a sport but also a performing art!
 
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I think what people want to see in programs is definitely a personal preference. You only need to read the play by play threads to see that. What is one person's masterpiece gets a 'that was boring :shuffle:' from another.

I also think what people view as romantic is subjective too. I noticed that most of the teams the author chose as her examples were ones who have made it clear one way or another they are not romantically involved off ice and won't be in the future.

I'm somewhere in the middle. I like romantic programs (because pulling them off convincingly is a challenge). But at the same time I found the phase where say Zueva was trying to compare all her teams to Gordeeva and Grinkov to be a bit much.

But what is and isn't a 'romantic' themed program isn't cut and dried. Is it just connection?

Have any of Papadakis/Cizeron's free dances been overtly *romantic?* I can't really say that I've thought of them that way. But they do skate with strong connection.

For example, Weaver/Poje's current SOS free dance is not a romantic themed program. But maybe people wouldn't agree with that because it skated between two skaters who have done romantic themed programs in the past and is skated with connection.

The problem is the programs you get for teams who have zero connection and the choreographer tries to hide that with a *fun* program. Which is then never much fun because they don't have connection - and connection isn't the same thing as romance. My peak example of that is when any team comes out dressed as clowns.
 
clairecloutier said:
A good opinion piece about why ice dance teams should look beyond romance as a theme:

https://lamisosoup.wixsite.com/overflowroom/single-post/2019/02/14/Less-Romance-in-Ice-Dance
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It is true that greater variety is always nice, though I don't think Fear/Gibson's program is a particularly good example of what she's citing, since there is a romantic element to that (particularly the "On the Radio" slow segment), it's just more of a "let's go have a wild time at the discotheque" romance as opposed to an angsty/passionate one.
 
starrynight said:
I think what people want to see in programs is definitely a personal preference. You only need to read the play by play threads to see that. What is one person's masterpiece gets a 'that was boring :shuffle:' from another.

I also think what people view as romantic is subjective too. I noticed that most of the teams the author chose as her examples were ones who have made it clear one way or another they are not romantically involved off ice and won't be in the future.

I'm somewhere in the middle. I like romantic programs (because pulling them off convincingly is a challenge). But at the same time I found the phase where say Zueva was trying to compare all her teams to Gordeeva and Grinkov to be a bit much.

But what is and isn't a 'romantic' themed program isn't cut and dried. Is it just connection?

Have any of Papadakis/Cizeron's free dances been overtly *romantic?* I can't really say that I've thought of them that way. But they do skate with strong connection.

For example, Weaver/Poje's current SOS free dance is not a romantic themed program. But maybe people wouldn't agree with that because it skated between two skaters who have done romantic themed programs in the past and is skated with connection.

The problem is the programs you get for teams who have zero connection and the choreographer tries to hide that with a *fun* program. Which is then never much fun because they don't have connection - and connection isn't the same thing as romance. My peak example of that is when any team comes out dressed as clowns.
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I think that's a great point. If Virtue/Moir had skated the Shibs exact Fix You FD, I suspect people would have thought of that as a romantic program because that's what they're known for.
 
I find all the posing and staring into each other's eyes during the introductions prior to warmups this season annoying. And I always find it annoying when teams (this year it happens to be Komatsubara & Koleto) try to sell themselves as having a great connection on the ice because they are married or romantically involved off the ice. I've never found this to be true. I also find that generally programs that are soft & one-dimensionally romantic are not my personal cup of tea.

But if you want to come out on the ice for your program and sell me a relationship, that's good with me. Sexy, passionate, intimate, antagonistic, fun, caring, frightening, whatever. Make me believe it in the performance, and I will love it. I also have a few clown programs I love;). I guess what I really love is diversity. If you can sell me fun--be it disco or cha cha or whatever--and you can sell me goth girl or scary intense tango and you can sell me blind Charlie Chaplin romance, etc., you've got me. I'm yours. I might even be on board through the waltz. (Silverstein & Pekarek's was fabulous).
 
Dobre said:
I find all the posing and staring into each other's eyes during the introductions prior to warmups this season annoying.
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I suppose it’s all part of setting the scene and getting the audience and judges into the program and mood by incorporating the theme of the dance into the warm ups.

It’s not as bad as the opposite where a skater is about to be announced for a Carmen or a delicate ballet themed program and they are filmed standing by the boards blowing their noses lol.
 
I also like when teams have enough technical risk in a program that I worry they might make a mistake.


starrynight said:
I suppose it’s all part of setting the scene and getting the audience and judges into the program
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I like when teams set the scene by coming out onto the ice prior to a performance in character.

But I find it annoying when they are posing during other teams' introductions.
 
Dobre said:
I find all the posing and staring into each other's eyes during the introductions prior to warmups this season annoying.
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starrynight said:
I suppose it’s all part of setting the scene and getting the audience and judges into the program and mood by incorporating the theme of the dance into the warm ups.
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I suspect the staring at each other until their names are called is part of their mental prep - i.e. focusing on themselves and their program rather than being distracted by other teams/audience cheering, etc. In other words, getting in the zone.
 
Dobre said:
I like when teams set the scene by coming out onto the ice prior to a performance in character.

But I find it annoying when they are posing during other teams' introductions.
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I’m sure that’s a way to keep the attention on their own team even while the others have been announced.

Everything becomes part of the competition. During warm ups some teams stalk other teams around the ice and deliberately engage in *near misses* to spook other teams. Some teams skate right through other teams to assert their dominance. I’ve seen one team practice a spin and another team stop right next to them to do their spin too. The competition has started.
 
starrynight said:
I’m sure that’s a way to keep the attention on their own team even while the others have been announced.

Everything becomes part of the competition. During warm ups some teams stalk other teams around the ice and deliberately engage in *near misses* to spook other teams. Some teams skate right through other teams to assert their dominance. I’ve seen one team practice a spin and another team stop right next to them to do their spin too. The competition has started.
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I love them, but Gilles/Poirier are very very bad when it comes to pulling stunts like this in warm ups
 
I do remember an incident during the practices at the Olympics when they deliberately crossed into the path of Weaver/Poje. It just resulted in them getting yelled at by both W/P and Virtue/Moir (who were also at the practice). I would have imagined that in the end that was more distracting to G/P than it was to W/P.
 
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