The Dance Hall 6: We're All Off Our Rockers 2018-2019

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I guess USCIS decides she didn’t qualify as an alien with extraordinary ability (but Melania is, I guess :saint:). But I’m no lawyer; that’s my interpretation from the document linked by that tweet.
 
yurokis40 said:
they should have competed for Canada in the first place, much easier to get Citizenship here
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The US would never release Anthony. (Although isn’t there some ISU rule now that says a federation can’t hold someone indefinitely? Although it didn’t seem to work for Abachkina)
 
Well, this is bad news. :(

I hope Christina can win her appeal somehow (I guess they've already talked to their elected officials?). They have so much potential. And arguably the best junior team in the U.S. right now is Nguyen/Kolesnik, who also have citizenship issues.
 
It seems really risky to try to skate for the US if the Olympics are your goal because it seems citizenship has always been hard to get. And particularly in the current political climate I imagine harder.

Are actions like Christine's often successful? I imagine that taking legal action is very expensive.
 
same thing happened to the danes they are now skating for Canada, if she can't get citizenship I see no other option unless Trump is defeated in 2020.
 
yurokis40 said:
same thing happened to the danes they are now skating for Canada, if she can't get citizenship I see no other option unless Trump is defeated in 2020.
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It’s takes much longer now to get a citizenships under Trump. Even if she is successful it might be just not enough time to complete the process. It’s really sad. Might be demotivating for such a young team.
 
My understanding of the petition is that she was denied a particular type of visa, an O-1 Visa, issued to "individuals with an extraordinary ability in the sciences, education, business, or athletics". My husband is in the US on this type of visa (as a scientist) so I know something about how they work. They do not grant permanent residence status so won't speed up citizenship directly, but do allow you to work in the US, and you can pay to have the application processed quickly (10 days seems about right). The visa is first issued for a period of 3 years, after which it can be extended annually in 1-year increments. I suspect she was hoping for this status as it might make applying for a green card easier since she is not "working" in the US.
 
I was just talking to someone today about EB-1 and EB-2 visas. I am far from an expert, but the impression I got was that the EB-1 and EB-2 can be applied for in parallel, and that a negative result on the EB-1 doesn't impact the EB-2 application. In that case, I hope she has already submitted the application for the EB-2.
 
So the visa application precedes the green card application? Then most likely, she wouldn't be able to get citizenship in time for Beijing (which they might not qualify for anyway, esp if the current top 3 teams all continue until then), b/c isn't there a waiting period between getting your green card and applying for citizenship?

But this could have a chilling effect on future athletes in any sport who are seeking to represent the U.S. at the Olys.
 
princeton123 said:
Are they aiming for 2022? Sounds like it would’ve been tough for her to get it in time even if her green card wasn’t denied.
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Likely that is their target, and yes, it would have been difficult even if the O-visa had not been denied. Without knowing all the details of her case, I have the following thoughts which seem to be different from the above sentiments:
1) The O is for extraordinary talents. So far, Christina Carriera is simply not all that extraordinary. Very good yes, but not a track record so far that would warrant handing her an O. IMO, she is asking for something that she doesn't yet merit.
2) Given the depth of ice dance in the USA, it is presumptuous to think that she and her partner will even make the 2022 Olympic team. They might have a shot, but it's far from certain given the competition. She has not been denied the ability to compete for the USA in any other international capacity, as that is perfectly OK by ISU rules. So this is all really about the 2022 Olympics and only that. She should have plenty of time to get green card and citizenship for the 2026 Olympics under standard regulations.

In short, she can try to fight or sue or whatever, but she doesn't have a leg to stand on. I'm sure she's looking at Tanith Belbin as the model to follow, but Tanith's situation was different on multiple dimensions.

I say this as a fan of Carreira/Ponomarenko, but this leaves a bit of a sour impression for me. It's not like they didn't know this would be an issue when they teamed up.
 
This site might be useful:

https://www.uscis.gov/working-unite...ividuals-extraordinary-ability-or-achievement

To qualify for an O-1 visa, the beneficiary must demonstrate extraordinary ability by sustained national or international acclaim and must be coming temporarily to the United States to continue work in the area of extraordinary ability.

Extraordinary ability in the fields of science, education, business or athletics means a level of expertise indicating that the person is one of the small percentage who has risen to the very top of the field of endeavor.
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As I understand it, the reason for the denial is not that she is not talented enough or hasn't achieved enough, its that her achievements do not count because the USCIS don't consider ISU competitions to be internationally recognized because one has to represent a country with ISU membership in order to be eligible to compete. Which is bogus and a misinterpretation of the law.
 
It looks like her green card got denied card which is different from a work visa. Work visas need to be renewed at various intervals. A green card aka permanent resident card allows you to work and live permanently in the United States but doesn't give you the right to vote. Once you are a permanent resident for x number of years, you can apply to become a naturalized citizen.
In Tanith and Ben's case, the lawyer did pro bono work for them. Tanith said it wouldn't have been possible without his help. I don't know how much influence the USFS has, if any. Even the fast tracked version of the US citizenship process is quite lengthy and cumbersome under any administration, particularly this one.

ETA: Here is the permanent resident eligibility criteria.

https://www.uscis.gov/greencard/eligibility-categories
Are a first preference immigrant worker, meaning you:
  • Have extraordinary ability in the sciences, arts, education, business or athletics, or
  • Are an outstanding professor or researcher, or
  • Are a multinational manager or executive who meets certain criteria
 
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Christina Carreira has been living in the US since 2014, and competing for the US internationally starting with JGPs in the fall of that year. She turned 18 in April 2018, which is presumably why she wouldn't have been able to apply for a visa on her own behalf earlier.
From the bit quoted in the linked tweet, the rationale for the denial does indeed seem bizarre:

" the denial of this petition was arbitrary and capricious in the extreme in that the USCIS’s weird conclusion that
“silver and gold awards at national and international .. ice skating competitions,” are not “nationally or internationally recognized prizes or awards for excellence in the field of endeavor, because it is limited to members of that association and participants of those competitions", Exhibit 4 at 5, is entirely irrational, in that such limitations on the winners of such awards is completely unrelated to the ultimate issue of whether they are nationally or internationally recognized."

Would any athletes be eligible under this rationale? As the petition points out, even an Olympic medal wouldn't qualify.
 
chameleonster said:
As I understand it, the reason for the denial is not that she is not talented enough or hasn't achieved enough, its that her achievements do not count because the USCIS don't consider ISU competitions to be internationally recognized because one has to represent a country with ISU membership in order to be eligible to compete. Which is bogus and a misinterpretation of the law.
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Exactly. And strikes me as total BS.
 
chameleonster said:
As I understand it, the reason for the denial is not that she is not talented enough or hasn't achieved enough, its that her achievements do not count because the USCIS don't consider ISU competitions to be internationally recognized because one has to represent a country with ISU membership in order to be eligible to compete. Which is bogus and a misinterpretation of the law.
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That was my reaction.

jiejie said:
Likely that is their target, and yes, it would have been difficult even if the O-visa had not been denied. Without knowing all the details of her case, I have the following thoughts which seem to be different from the above sentiments:
1) The O is for extraordinary talents. So far, Christina Carriera is simply not all that extraordinary. Very good yes, but not a track record so far that would warrant handing her an O. IMO, she is asking for something that she doesn't yet merit.
2) Given the depth of ice dance in the USA, it is presumptuous to think that she and her partner will even make the 2022 Olympic team. They might have a shot, but it's far from certain given the competition. She has not been denied the ability to compete for the USA in any other international capacity, as that is perfectly OK by ISU rules. So this is all really about the 2022 Olympics and only that. She should have plenty of time to get green card and citizenship for the 2026 Olympics under standard regulations.

In short, she can try to fight or sue or whatever, but she doesn't have a leg to stand on. I'm sure she's looking at Tanith Belbin as the model to follow, but Tanith's situation was different on multiple dimensions.

I say this as a fan of Carreira/Ponomarenko, but this leaves a bit of a sour impression for me. It's not like they didn't know this would be an issue when they teamed up.
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If they want to say that she isn't extraordinary enough to qualify, that would be one thing. But my understanding of that document is what @chameleonster said above. And the explanation of why Junior Worlds, for example, doesn't count doesn't make sense to me.

This is from the lawsuit:

...the USCIS’s weird conclusion that “silver and gold awards at national and international .. ice skating competitions,” are not “nationally or internationally recognized prizes or awards for excellence in the field of endeavor, because it is limited to members of that association and participants of those competitions, , is entirely irrational, in that such limitations on the winners of such awards is completely unrelated to the ultimate issue of whether they are nationally or internationally recognized. In fact, World Junior Championship awards are the highest the world of junior ice dance skating has to offer.”
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In Tanith's case, a petition was circulated and sent to Congress for an amendment rectifying some parts of the immigration law so that she could get citizenship in time for the 2006 Olympics. I don't know if C/P could make this happen or if it can even apply in this case.

Looking at the document again, I just want to draft it out so that I understand what's going on here. Christina was denied initially because she failed to meet the minimum 3 criteria but then was conceded 2 of the 3. The only thing she's missing would be what everyone else has been pointing out (and I completely agree about how arbitrary the justification is).
 
Tanith Belbin was going through the green card/citizenship process and applied under a set of regulations in effect at the time. During this period, the regulations were changed which shortened part of the process for those who applied under the new timetable. This had the practical effect of putting newer applicants ahead of Tanith in getting citizenship, which was blatantly unfair and an unintended consequence of the way the law was written. It took Congress to make a special change this for Tanith and a number of other applicants in the same boat, to put them on equal footing with the newer applicants who were able to use a shortened time frame. The net result was to allow her citizenship in time for the Olympics.

Ultimately, perhaps the root cause of these problems is the International Olympic Committee, which requires citizenship in the country you are representing. This is a problem for certain sports, figure skating pairs and dance being foremost among them. If the IOC would amend this rule to allow options in lieu of citizenship....such as residency in a country for X number of years....or a team that has already represented a country (where one of them has citizenship) for at least Y years in international competition....we wouldn't be having these sorts of dramas. We could continue to have Fournier-Beaudry/Sorenson representing Denmark. We could have more possibilities for dance/pair teams representing Asian countries.
 
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I'm a fan of C/P. But in all fairness, Tanith (and Ben) as a team had to build her case (and resume) by proving their success in the senior field before she even got to the point of citizenship.
 
Lara111 said:
She, in my opinion, absolutely meet a definition of an extraordinary ability as it is described in the rules.
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My two cents as an attorney: Carreira is totally in the right, legally, based on the rules as presented.

The only way she doesn't win this is if the immigration authorities are granted inappropriately broad deference -- this is, unfortunately, more likely than you would hope. Courts are much more reluctant to intervene in immigration matters compared to other areas of the administrative state.
 
Colonel Green said:
My two cents as an attorney: Carreira is totally in the right, legally, based on the rules as presented.

The only way she doesn't win this is if the immigration authorities are granted inappropriately broad deference -- this is, unfortunately, more likely than you would hope. Courts are much more reluctant to intervene in immigration matters compared to other areas of the administrative state.
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Now you got me thinking of the Chevron Deference. I don't even know if Chevron applies in immigration cases. Anyway, the courts seems so deferential when it comes to immigration that they don't even need it.
 
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