The Dance Hall 6: We're All Off Our Rockers 2018-2019

[Ka3sha]

@Dobre , Ushakova/Nekrasov are staying in juniors

 

[her grace]

Here's Russia's teams from the SB list

guranteed something
3 Stepanova/Bukin, obviously going to get 2 GPS
7 Sinitsina/Katsalapov ditto, 2
12 Zagorski/Guerreiro, also in top 24 WS, 2 most likely
20 Skoptcova/Aleshin, guaranteed 1
22 Evdokimova/Bazin, guaranteed 1 if score stays in top 24 after worlds
23 Ushakova/Nekrasov staying jr.

not guaranteed anything
25 Khudaiberdieva/Nazarov JW2
26 Shevchenko/Eremenko JW3 & JGP1
27 Popova/Mozgov
31 Shpilevaya/Smirnov, doomed
more jr teams
50 Morozov/Bagin, will they be gifted again?

Russia had seven teams on the GP this season. If several of the teams get 1 assignment, I think you could fit all of K/N, S/E, and P/M on the GP. And of course, Russia can push whichever teams are in favor to get a second one. Whoever's not in favor can do the Challenger circuit.

 

[her grace]

I misread that Ushakova and Nekrasov were aging out. Then yes, I would agree that they would be the favourites, as Nguyen and Kolesnik's finish at World juniors was an upset.

I agree that Ushakova/Nekrasov are the early favorites with Nguyen/Kolesnik close on their heels. I do hope that Jr. Worlds was a wake-up call for U/N. They have so many good qualities, but they really need to address their sloppy body positions. N/K aren't as advanced as they are in performance quality, but they may well have an advantage on the strength of their impeccable technique.

 

[mjb52]

Does anyone know exactly why Shpilevaya/Smirnov are so disfavored?

 

[barbarafan]

A few other thoughts on the JW repercussions . . .

Lajoie & Lagha get their top 24 SB spot. (Looks pretty safe, as they are in 21st, and I can only think of @three senior teams headed for Worlds that I can fathom getting onto the list). So I would guess this translates into two locked spots on the GP for them, as they were already very likely to get a host spot.

Khudaberdieva & Nazarov take out Shevchenko & Eremenko; but miss the top 24 score, leaving both teams now just a hair off the list. I do not know what is likely to happen with these bubble Russian teams now next season. Russia currently has spots #25, 26, 27, and 31. Shall we flip a coin & see who gets onto the GP? If Ushakova & Nekrasov don't move up, I'd think there would be room for at least one of these bubble teams; but now K&N have the highest score among these teams, yet they finished behind S&E at Russian Junior Nationals and the JGPF. Curious what will happen there. (And, really, if Popova & Mozgov get their ______ together, they could defeat either of these teams in the pre-season).



Or both skaters on the twizzle sequences! Absolutely infuriating. Reviya starts mucking up the twizzle sequence, and the cameraman/woman leaves him and follows only her. Ahh!



It was plenty bad considering they had a higher base value than the 4 teams who finished ahead of them. Sigh, first Junior Worlds nerves. Learn from the experience. Meanwhile--I love Demougeot & Le Mercier--but they had three glaring errors here and still finished 8th above teams they lost to earlier in the season. Lucked out in the RD as a few seconds earlier, and that trip would have been costly. But how they got away with mucking up the free as well...?

True

 

[Dobre]

Russia had seven teams on the GP this season. If several of the teams get 1 assignment, I think you could fit all of K/N, S/E, and P/M on the GP.

That would be interesting. I doubt they'll do it.

Here's Russia's teams from the SB list

There's also Konkina & Drozd, who are with Zhulin and I'd guess did well enough at the Ice Mall Cup to be considered for the CS.

We'll see if everyone sticks it out through the summer.

 

[cgirl8]

Speaking of unexpected falls.... Was anybody in the building for Jr Worlds FD who saw what actually happened in the exit of Gropman/Somerville's rotational lift (https://youtu.be/6pw9HXOgGSU?t=79)? Because the cursed cameraman didn't let us see skaters' feet/legs during lifts -- or during large chunks of step sequences, for that matter -- and the slo-mos didn't include the exit, it's hard to get a clear picture of the (presumed) fall. I can see that there's a loss of balance and his hand touches the ice, and the protocol shows a fall deduction with lift GOEs from -2 to -3. So, was it clearly a fall and not just a stumble but because it happened in the exit and not in the middle of the lift, the GOE damage isn't as bad as it could be?

I wasn't there is person, but from a friend who was: Ian stumbled on the exit of the lift and put his hand down and enough weight transferred onto the hand to count as a fall.

 

[Peepsquick]

What happened to Ushakova/Nekrasov? I love this team and they seemed on track at the beginning of the season ...
To me they are the whole package.
I couldn't find a video of their performance .

 

[twinklestar]

So many Russian teams!

My fave is Khudaiberdieva/Nazarov.

 

[Lara111]

What happened to Ushakova/Nekrasov? I love this team and they seemed on track at the beginning of the season ...
To me they are the whole package.
I couldn't find a video of their performance .

Nothing really. Tech panel at JW was let's say different

 

[Colonel Green]

What happened to Ushakova/Nekrasov? I love this team and they seemed on track at the beginning of the season ...
To me they are the whole package.
I couldn't find a video of their performance .

Their free is here.

The main thing that happened to them was getting wiped out on the pattern in the rhythm dance, which realistically meant they weren't going to win unless the teams ahead of them messed up. As far as why they didn't medal at all, harder to say. Possibly these judges just weren't in love with their weird free program, or they liked the other Russian teams more.

 

[Peepsquick]

Their free is here.

The main thing that happened to them was getting wiped out on the pattern in the rhythm dance, which realistically meant they weren't going to win unless the teams ahead of them messed up. As far as why they didn't medal at all, harder to say. Possibly these judges just weren't in love with their weird free program, or they liked the other Russian teams more.

Thank you @ Colonel Green!
I, for one, love the quirkiness of their FD! So entertaining and well done!

 

[RoseRed]

Thank you @ Colonel Green!
I, for one, love the quirkiness of their FD! So entertaining and well done!

I would also say that these weren't U/N's best performances of the season. They seemed a bit sloppier to me (I haven't watched back to compare though).

 

[Bigbird]

I would also say that these weren't U/N's best performances of the season. They seemed a bit sloppier to me (I haven't watched back to compare though).

I honestly feel the FD was a sloppy retreading of last years better FD, same moves and very unrefined. Almost everyone else tried to challenge themselves with different material. As for the RD it was a sloppy mess here at junior worlds, hence they lost a medal. But they really, really need to deal with their very poor posture.

 

[Lara111]

I would also say that these weren't U/N's best performances of the season. They seemed a bit sloppier to me (I haven't watched back to compare though).

I agree.

 

[chantilly]

There seems to be a few whispers here and on the goldenskate forum that the dance event wasn’t properly judged.

As I didn’t see it can anyone shed their opinions. I believe the naysayers were criticizing the technical panel for the most part.

 

[angi]

There seems to be a few whispers here and on the goldenskate forum that the dance event wasn’t properly judged.

As I didn’t see it can anyone shed their opinions. I believe the naysayers were criticizing the technical panel for the most part.

I watched the dance event and the judging seemed solid to me. It was clear L/L improved technically since JGPF and they talked a lot about really focusing on getting the levels so it's not truly surprising that they managed to get level 4 and level 2 on the tango pattern and level 3 on the step sequence in the RD. U/N, on the other hand, were sloppy on both parts of the tango and especially on the second part which affected both the level (they got base level) and the GOE they got for it. However, L/L were 4th on PCS in the RD while U/N were first.
In the FD, L/L were the clear winners for me, U/N programs have been the worst among the top junior teams this season imo and ever since jgpf it started catching up to them since the other top teams mastered their own much better FDs. As others said above, U/N looked sloppy compared to the other teams and their postures weren't good. In an event where the other top 4 teams really brought it, they stood out as the weakest team and it finally affected their PCS as well.
As for K/N and S/E, I would have personally switched their placement but I can't really argue with the result either (and they ended up being barely a point apart).
tl;dr - nothing was wrong with the judging, I suspect it's U/N team that is starting this since they are unhappy with the results (and are, of course, yelling foul play from the Canadians while completely ignoring the fact that it wasn't just L/L who beat U/N but also two other Russian teams...).

 

[chantilly]

I watched the dance event and the judging seemed solid to me. It was clear L/L improved technically since JGPF and they talked a lot about really focusing on getting the levels so it's not truly surprising that they managed to get level 4 and level 2 on the tango pattern and level 3 on the step sequence in the RD. U/N, on the other hand, were sloppy on both parts of the tango and especially on the second part which affected both the level (they got base level) and the GOE they got for it. However, L/L were 4th on PCS in the RD while U/N were first.
In the FD, L/L were the clear winners for me, U/N programs have been the worst among the top junior teams this season imo and ever since jgpf it started catching up to them since the other top teams mastered their own much better FDs. As others said above, U/N looked sloppy compared to the other teams and their postures weren't good. In an event where the other top 4 teams really brought it, they stood out as the weakest team and it finally affected their PCS as well.
As for K/N and S/E, I would have personally switched their placement but I can't really argue with the result either (and they ended up being barely a point apart).
tl;dr - nothing was wrong with the judging, I suspect it's U/N team that is starting this since they are unhappy with the results (and are, of course, yelling foul play from the Canadians while completely ignoring the fact that it wasn't just L/L who beat U/N but also two other Russian teams...).

Thanks.

 

[Dobre]

What happened to Ushakova/Nekrasov? I love this team and they seemed on track at the beginning of the season ...
To me they are the whole package.
I couldn't find a video of their performance .

Nothing easy to see, but they had a visible error in the second half of their pattern. The Greens also. It got both of them. Then Ushakova Nekrasov had a level two and a level one on the one-foot steps in the FD, which is very uncharacteristic. (He had two level fours on it during the regular JGP and a level three with the tough panel at the JGPF). Their lower GOE on the element relative to the other higher-ranked teams does seem to reflect that the judging panel & tech panel agreed that the step wasn't well executed here.

I'm going to go with the norm, which is that when you come into Junior Worlds with all the pressure, it's pretty common to feel it and not skate your best. We've seen it happen the last three years in a row with the top-ranked returning team from the previous Junior Worlds (McNamara & Carpenter in 2017, Carreira & Ponomarenko in 2018, and now Ushakova & Nekrasov in 2019).

I believe the naysayers were criticizing the technical panel for the most part.

I haven't read either thread yet so I can't respond to any complaints there. I can say that the difference in base value between Nguyen & Kolesnik and Ushakova & Nekrasov was almost identically higher for N&K at the Kaunas JGP. So at least with regard to these two teams, the difference in the final result here came down to the judging panel rather than the tech panel. (N&K gave up some obvious points at the JGPF so their other JGP performances are probably more indicative of their technical levels with a clean skate).

 

[Lara111]

Nothing easy to see, but they had a visible error in the second half of their pattern. The Greens also. It got both of them. Then Ushakova Nekrasov had a level two and a level one on the one-foot steps in the FD, which is very uncharacteristic. (He had two level fours on it during the regular JGP and a level three with the tough panel at the GPF). Their lower GOE on the element relative to the other higher-ranked teams does seem to reflect that the judging panel & tech panel agreed that the step wasn't well executed here.

I'm going to go with the norm, which is that when you come into Junior Worlds with all the pressure, it's pretty common to feel it and not skate your best. We've seen it happen the last three years in a row with the top-ranked returning team from the previous Junior Worlds.



I haven't read either thread yet so I can't respond to any complaints there. I can say that the difference in base value between Nguyen & Kolesnik and Ushakova & Nekrasov was almost identically higher for N&K at the Kaunas JGP. So at least with regard to these two teams, the difference in the final result here came down to the judging panel rather than the tech panel. (N&K gave up some obvious points at the JGPF so their other JGP performances are probably more indicative of their technical levels with a clean skate).

Russian teams are not ready for early JGP. You cannot say that U&N performance there was indicative of their level. I agree their performance at the Worlds was off. May be he had some health issues.

 

[Dobre]

Russian teams are not ready for early JGP. You cannot say that U&N performance there was indicative of their level.

I was referring to N&K's technical levels, saying that for them their regular JGP skates were a better indicator of their base value potential than their JGPF scores.

But U&N were pretty ready. On the thread on GS about the Junior Russian Test Skates, they were one of only two teams listed as having skated the FD. Kaunas was an international debut skate, of course, but that was true for both teams.

 

[Moustaffask8r]

Nothing really. Tech panel at JW was let's say different

 

[Bigbird]

When you look at the performances in real time it's obvious that U/N simply were below par for this competition and the other teams really stepped up their game, especially the Canadian team. I imagine that the entire Gadbois camp will be super motivated and prepared for worlds.

 

[Dobre]

Per Rose Red's post in the Russia thread, Shevchenko & Eremenko are highly likely to finish top 24 in the World Standings after the point turnover. So there's your 6th Russian team on the GP. Beyond that, we wait & see.

 

[sharsk8s]

tl;dr - nothing was wrong with the judging, I suspect it's U/N team that is starting this since they are unhappy with the results (and are, of course, yelling foul play from the Canadians while completely ignoring the fact that it wasn't just L/L who beat U/N but also two other Russian teams...).

I think there was a lot of potential for poor scoring/over-scoring of l/l since it was a predominantly NA panel but they skated very well and earned their scores. I understand some people might complain about the margin but I think the placements were correct (2nd and 3rd could be switched but I personally agree with these standings).

 

[yurokis40]

I think there was a lot of potential for poor scoring/over-scoring of l/l since it was a predominantly NA panel but they skated very well and earned their scores. I understand some people might complain about the margin but I think the placements were correct (2nd and 3rd could be switched but I personally agree with these standings).

the real travesty from the judges was giving Lajoie and Lagha only the fourth pcs in the rd when it is one of the strongest and they got the highest pcs af gp final, the judges tried to screw them again thank god they left no doubt their fd was a masterpiece and would have been difficult even for senior teams, the Russians always complain when they don't win the only Russian team that impressed me were the silver medalists I thought the American team should have been on the podium

 

[yurokis40]

so what are the predictions for worlds , I am seeing a lot of predictions at golden skate for chock and bates silver not sure about that they won 4cc but it was in their home country and the US had to win something after flaming out in the other disciplines. My predictions a big surprise G&P on the podium if they nail their rd.

 

[Wyliefan]

This year, my ideal podium would have P/C, C/B, and G/F. I doubt I'll get it, but it's what I want. I wouldn't mind if Piper and Paul got on there somewhere, though. And I wouldn't mind if H/D did either -- I really don't care for their FD, but they're still a good team.

 

[yurokis40]

Piper and Paul deserve a medal I don't think people appreciate how difficult it is to put a free program like that especially on paper, don't get the C&B love they are good but is that fd really that good , we will see in neutral in saitama weapon will also factor they always skate well in Japan.

 

[Lara111]

Piper and Paul deserve a medal I don't think people appreciate how difficult it is to put a free program like that especially on paper, don't get the C&B love they are good but is that fd really that good , we will see in neutral in saitama weapon will also factor they always skate well in Japan.

g&p FD is amazing, I think I like it the most this season and they get fairly high scores for this dance. Unfortunately, there are teams that probably never will be at the podium unless someone else makes a serious mistake. I think shorter teams are at a natural disadvantage when compared to the taller teams. I also do not get C/B at all.