The Dance Hall 5: Ice Dance Fans 2017-2018

[cocotaffy]

Looking at the protocols at Judge 1, the Korean Judge really didn't enjoy the US teams one bit and particularly H/B.

 

[VGThuy]

I think she just grouped them together giving higher marks to the Shibs in some areas and giving C/B a +3 on their curve lift. She seemed to like H/D last year. Maybe she'll be more generous in the FD. She's the most like FSU right now in that she clearly thinks there's a big gap between the top 2 and all the bronze medal contenders.

 

[cocotaffy]

I think she just grouped them together giving higher marks to the Shibs in some areas and giving C/B a +3 on their curve lift. She seemed to like H/D last year. Maybe she'll be more generous in the FD. She's the most like FSU right now in that she clearly thinks there's a big gap between the top 2 and all the bronze medal contenders.

Maybe she's an avid lurker or even better a member. Still those PCS are a bit whacko.

 

[VGThuy]

Did you like the 10.0 C/B received for composition from the Spanish judge? It seems C/B's prospects are not quite dead after all and H/D still need to worry about them with the Shibs if Zach doesn't want to collect another bronze medal at Nationals.

 

[cocotaffy]

The Spanish judge seem to have enjoyed C/B but also H/D actually. H/D have to worry a bit because the last three are just 0.5 apart and they don't want to be lumped in the 74 region. I feel the Shibs detached themselves quite clearly from the pack especially with their strong SD. They improved quite a bit compared to last year, I find them more powerful at least in the SD. In the FD, they still need to ramp up their energy a bit more. C/B are doing a bit better here than in the rest of the GP so by Nationals, who knows ! H/D definitely deserve to be at least US number 2 imo but today rewatching their skate, they were not as clean as in Canada or NHK tbh. But most teams skated tentatively today apart for P/C and C/L who enjoyed themselves out there.

 

[Debbie S]

Did you like the 10.0 C/B received for composition from the Spanish judge?

I did.

 

[nlyoung]

Will Russian judges still be permitted at the Olympics after the ban?

 

[clairecloutier]

Well I bet that the GPF like last time won't come into that medal at all. Mark my words. It's not that I hope for the shibs not to win it. It has more to do with politiks and whatever a certain country will do to have it.

Why don't you just say what you think is going to happen? Instead of giving winks and nods and .

 

[VGThuy]

Why don't you just say what you think is going to happen? Instead of giving winks and nods and .

I mean obviously if the Shibs don't get it, then it'll be one of Hubbell/Donohue, Chock/Bates, Cappellini/Lanotte, Weaver/Poje, Coomes/Buckland, Gilles/Poirier, Bobrova/Soloviev, one of Stepanova/Bukin or Sinitsina/Katsalapov, or Guignard/Fabbri. Which one does MarieM think it is? I believe she's winking towards Stepanova/Bukin myself.

 

[Miloune]

lol S/B would be wild but eh, who knows indeed!

 

[ninalovesskating]

As crazy as it sounds, I actually think Stepanova and Bukin are the team performing at their absolute best this season. Not the biggest fan of them but they are making a statement. They performed better than C/B and W/P at IDF. Even British Eurosport said so. You never know in ice dance.

 

[topaz]

The judges appear to be 'ranking' TES and automatically alotting scores based on the their "own" ranking of the teams.

Example:
Today H/D were ranked 6th in twizzles and Lift. In fact, everyone received level 4 twizzles except H/D.
Today, GPF

Shibs: noticable mistake on twizzles(Alex did one less rotation, comes out of the 2nd set early and dance pattern edges were shallow/missed key points and pattern not a big as other teams.

• Twizzle level 4 GOE 1.11 = 7.71(appears they decreased their GOE with the slight mistake on twizzles but not the level)
• Rhum pattern lvl 2 1.29=5.09
• No Touch Midline lvl 4 2.36 = 10.96

Also, I do not think H/D made a mistake on the twizzle. Madison changed her edge going into the 2nd set of twizzles. Her move looks to be the same in Skate Canada where they received the level 4 and highest score for that element at Skate Canada.

https://youtu.be/sfRATAKjI_I?t=3m4s

Today - https://youtu.be/pgqaIbOxJTY?t=14m25s



Madi/Zach TES score comparisons

Skate Canada

http://skatingscores.com/2018/gpcan/short/unit/usa/madison_hubbell_zachary_donohue/

Element base value(bv) GOE Score

1.NiMist3 7.10 2.04 9.14

2. 1RH4+kpyyy 5.00 1.20 6.20

3. Pst4 8.60 2.36 10.96

4. CuLi4 4.50 1.63 6.13

5. STw4 6.60 1.54 8.14

_______________________________40.57 total_____


NHK

Elements and Same BV GOE

1. 2.20 9.30

2. 1.20 6.20

3. 2.36 10.96

4. 1.37 5.87

5. 6.60 7.97

NHK C/L received the exact same score including the same GOE as H/D in twizzles and no touch midline steps. I don't think anyone thinks that C/L have comparable edges, speed and skating skills as H/D. But apparently the judges do.
http://skatingscores.com/2018/gpjpn/short/unit/ita/anna_cappellini_luca_lanotte/


Okay, this is my detailed rant about the judging and I'm through

 

[VGThuy]

The Shibs did not miss key points. Their level 2 was based on timing not missing the key points. If they did they would have received two “N”s not two “T”s. For all of that they still received the same GOE as H/D and higher GOE than V/M and because it was pretty good considering despite the timing issues. Their pattern is comparable to H/D and I feel like select people are copying and pasting Shib criticisms from last season and every season before. Like saying they were slower than H/D when clearly that’s not the case if we’re watching the same video of this particular SD performance.

And the Shibs lost a lot of GOE for their twizzles compared to what they usually get so it was reflected. It’s just that the Shibs planned a very difficult set with many more rotations than the competition so they were still able to meet level 4 despite Alex having one less rotation than usual. It was still more rotations on the second set than H/D planned. Also, Madison hit a slight snag on the middle of her second set not on her entrance.

Looking at cleanliness of steps, turns, it’s not picking the deepest ones at a moment but also looking at the entrances and exits and the entire thing as a whole. The Shibs steps may not go for the long lobes of H/D but they were deemed correct and deep and clean. It’s a different approach but not a less correct one.

 

[rhapsody]

But it PC, its neutral territory, not so?

Worlds were in Finland this year which is also neutral (hehe) and the Shibs still only barely won their bronze. This was off the heels of the GPF where they beat the French in the SD in France. It looks good for the Shibs, but I'm going to be cautiously optimistic.

 

[MRani]

If last season taught me anything, nothing’s over until after the very last FD in the biggest competition of the season. Momentum counts for a lot, but it can shift in a moment.

 

[Amantide]

And don’t forget, it was not unprecedented that season for I/K to beat P/B. They did it at TEB that season and it was their only head-to-head before Sochi. The Shibs beat all of the Russian main contenders this season already and by some way. Sure B/S would have been close and may have beaten them but for the spin error but it didn’t happen.

Same thing happened at the europeans that year, and the worlds. I&K had the judges. It was their stupid mistakes, over and over again, that prevented them from winning more.

 

[chameleonster]

For those of you who were wondering if Chock/Bates were a couple:
http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/how-madison-chock-and-evan-bates-fell-love-ice

 

[Amantide]

For those of you who were wondering if Chock/Bates were a couple:
http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/how-madison-chock-and-evan-bates-fell-love-ice

I can't watch that in my region.
She's stunning though. Bates is a lucky guy. Not that he is a frog or anything like that. They make a very good couple.

 

[MAXSwagg]

Just watched V/M vs. P/C. I think I would have V/M a little ahead (basically, the scores the same just teams reversed). V/M twizzles have been better, but P/C's last lift is very...janky, compared to V/M's rotational lift. They really need to do something with that. Frankly, for P/C, France was a better performance.

 

[chapis]

I just read in another forum that Marie France decided to go with Smart/Diaz and Celia/Luis to Golden Spin, I think it was very nice from her, Zhulin was not with Sara/Kirill and B/S even when him has not teams competing at GPF.

 

[caseyedwards]

Well I bet that the GPF like last time won't come into that medal at all. Mark my words. It's not that I hope for the shibs not to win it. It has more to do with politiks and whatever a certain country will do to have it.

Russia is far too busy with ladies to care anymore whether it gets a measley bronze in dance!

 

[cocotaffy]

For those of you who were wondering if Chock/Bates were a couple:
http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/how-madison-chock-and-evan-bates-fell-love-ice

That title though: "Twizzle into my heart: how Chock and Bates fell in love" this sounds like an article title Ivana Komova could have written. I feel we need a new avatar from @Aerobicidal ASAP based on that gripping title.

 

[Aerobicidal]

That title though: "Twizzle into my heart: how Chock and Bates fell in love" this sounds like an article title Ivana Komova could have written. I feel we need a new avatar from @Aerobicidal ASAP based on that gripping title.

ASAP is going to have to wait until I finish grad school two weeks from today, but I love the suggestion.

 

[mysticchic]

For those of you who were wondering if Chock/Bates were a couple:
http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/how-madison-chock-and-evan-bates-fell-love-ice

interesting,so he dated Maddie while he was dating Becky Bereswell?

 

[Debbie S]

interesting,so he dated Maddie while he was dating Becky Bereswell?

She said she was 16, so that would have been 2008. I think Evan and Becky started dating when she moved to MI to train (pairs) and IIRC that was 2010 (she and Trevor Young competed at 2011 Nats). So it sounds like Madi preceded Becky.

 

[Daena]

Cannot watch the video: what is this "Maddie was 16" part? C/B dated when she was 16 and now they are back together?

 

[MarieM]

I mean obviously if the Shibs don't get it, then it'll be one of Hubbell/Donohue, Chock/Bates, Cappellini/Lanotte, Weaver/Poje, Coomes/Buckland, Gilles/Poirier, Bobrova/Soloviev, one of Stepanova/Bukin or Sinitsina/Katsalapov, or Guignard/Fabbri. Which one does MarieM think it is? I believe she's winking towards Stepanova/Bukin myself.

I do. Either of the Russian team IMO have a very good shot. S&Bukin were hosed in both their events. I don't understand how on earth the russian fed isn't behind them. B&S have zero chance in hell in the SD. Not with Zhulin's attention all on Nikita and only Nikita.

 

[caseyedwards]

I do. Either of the Russian team IMO have a very good shot. S&Bukin were hosed in both their events. I don't understand how on earth the russian fed isn't behind them. B&S have zero chance in hell in the SD. Not with Zhulin's attention all on Nikita and only Nikita.

Russia did a lot of work for bobrova and soloviev in the past. They hope whatever they did can hold while they move all resources to try to maybe sweep or at least get 2 in ladies.

 

[millyskate]

I'm another one who thinks that based on skating quality this season, Stepanova and Bukin should be right up there with the Shibs. I was really impressed with them at the French GP.

 

[MarieM]

I'm another one who thinks that based on skating quality this season, Stepanova and Bukin should be right up there with the Shibs. I was really impressed with them at the French GP.

Yet they are not even politicked at all. And that's bullshit crazy because Bobrova is slow and boring.