The Dance Hall 13: When You Dance on the Ice and Your Feet Twizzle Twice, That's Amore

[almiranara]

Does anyone have a subscription to The Information, and if so, could you give us a summary of what they're saying here about skating music?

https://www.theinformation.com/articles/figure-skating-aims-get-groove-back-ai-music-spice-girls

i can access it with archive.ph here https://archive.ph/VP9Xy

 

[Wyliefan]

Ah, thank you! Pretty good piece that covers a lot of angles, although I see they missed the fact that even classical music performances are often under copyright. And they also missed the brouhaha over the first iteration of the Czechs' AI piece.

 

[lauravvv]

I don`t see the judges giving the french more than a bronze they haven`t developped a style of their own yet piper and paul with all the mistakes they had this weekend have already pretty much closed the gap and they are usually much stronger in the sencond half of the seseason.

Style has nothing to do with that. That said, no one else is currently doing that style on such a level.

And you are obviously not taking into consideration that Fournier-Beaudry had their beginning choreo judged as a choreo rhythm sequence instead of their real choreo sequence in the RD, resulting in an '!' and much lower GOE, and also got an '!' (and lower GOE ) for their choreo sequence, lost a level on a lift and got -1 for it in the FD. Of course, they and Gilles/Poirier are much closer than it seemed after their first Grand Prixs, I am just saying that F-B/C also were far from ideal at Finlandia Trophy and are bound to improve at later competitions.

 

[Karen-W]

Style has nothing to do with that. That said, no one else is currently doing that style on such a level.

And you are obviously not taking into consideration that Fournier-Beaudry had their beginning choreo judged as a choreo rhythm sequence instead of their real choreo sequence in the RD, resulting in an '!' and much lower GOE, and also got an '!' (and lower GOE ) for their choreo sequence, lost a level on a lift and got -1 for it in the FD. Of course, they and Gilles/Poirier are much closer than it seemed after their first Grand Prixs, I am just saying that F-B/C also were far from ideal at Finlandia Trophy and are bound to improve at later competitions.

Way to disregard the obvious error that Piper made on her twizzles in the RD this week and the major lift error in the FD at SCI while building up FBCiz.

I think they're probably about equal and it may come down to skate order in Milano-Cortina as to who wins which medal. I'm very curious about the GPF to see where FearGib match up with the other three teams when they're all in the same field.

 

[lauravvv]

Way to disregard the obvious error that Piper made on her twizzles in the RD this week and the major lift error in the FD at SCI while building up FBCiz.

I didn't disregard anything. It was @yurokis40 who apparently disregarded F-B/C's errors and the calls they got, so I responded to that. Both teams made mistakes and were harshly judged by the technical panel. As for the G/P's twizzle mistake at Skate Canada, that's why I said that it "seemed" that they and F-B/C were further apart than they actually are.

 

[yurokis40]

France are lucky they will even get a medal in ice dance at the olympics it was pure luck that enabled fournier beaudry and cizeron to team up and for canada to release her so quickly also france and USA won`t have a judge in the team event at the olympics which could give piper and paul a boost if they skate well there. Also the french had a 2 month head start on chock and bates and piper who started there season much later. Fear and gibson won`t win a medal they will be lucky to be top 5 marie and iam are not sweeping the podium.

 

[Belsornia]

CTES watch update -

One Challenger (Tallinn Trophy) and two B events (Santa Claus Cup, Bosphorus Cup) this weekend are the last dance competitions ahead of the Euros entry deadline.

Ivanitskiy/Sperry (need +1.78) will be in Istanbul aiming for the third Finnish spot as well as Hairsine/Surenkov-Gultchev making their debut for Bulgaria.

Bosphorus Cup has had generous panels the last few years so they'll be joined by lots of teams hunting for Worlds minimums: all four Polish teams (Dovhal/Kulesza are the nearest - need +0.25), PinPog (need +0.20 - though Larson/Kapran already have minimums for UKR), Verhaegh/van Geffen (NED - need +0.42), Kudryavtseva/Karankevich (CYP - need +1.41), Pallu Neves/Panesar (BRA - need +4.93), Nauryzova/Datiev (KAZ - need +6.57), Kazakova/Kasinskij (GEO - need +8.34) and the Straubs (AUT - need +10.84).

In Budapest there's no-one whose country can't already fill it's Euros/4CC spots, but we've got both AZE teams (Weatherby/Kolosovskyi need +3.16 for Worlds, Ritter/Brykalov need +3.89) and Shilling/Baeten (BEL - need +10.89 for Worlds). Ziobrowska/Judd (ROU) are on the entry list but he's on IPS so I guess they're done.

Juniors in action this weekend who are only a few points off the Junior Worlds minimums include the Amaro Letestu twins (only 0.22 off becoming Portugal's first ever championship competitors!), Epps/Gilman (need +1.27) and Gallix/Egyed-Zsigmond, who recently switched from France to Hungary (need +2.10).

 

[Karen-W]

CTES watch update -

One Challenger (Tallinn Trophy) and two B events (Santa Claus Cup, Ephesus Bosphorus Cup) this weekend are the last dance competitions ahead of the Euros entry deadline.

Ivanitskiy/Sperry (need +1.78) will be in Istanbul aiming for the third Finnish spot as well as Hairsine/Surenkov-Gultchev making their debut for Bulgaria.

Ephesus Bosphorus Cup has had generous panels the last few years so they'll be joined by lots of teams hunting for Worlds minimums: all four Polish teams (Dovhal/Kulesza are the nearest - need +0.25), PinPog (need +0.20 - though Larson/Kapran already have minimums for UKR), Verhaegh/van Geffen (NED - need +0.42), Kudryavtseva/Karankevich (CYP - need +1.41), Pallu Neves/Panesar (BRA - need +4.93), Nauryzova/Datiev (KAZ - need +6.57), Kazakova/Kasinskij (GEO - need +8.34) and the Straubs (AUT - need +10.84).

In Budapest there's no-one whose country can't already fill it's Euros/4CC spots, but we've got both AZE teams (Weatherby/Kolosovskyi need +3.16 for Worlds, Ritter/Brykalov need +3.89) and Shilling/Baeten (BEL - need +10.89 for Worlds). Ziobrowska/Judd (ROU) are on the entry list but he's on IPS so I guess they're done.

Juniors in action this weekend who are only a few points off the Junior Worlds minimums include the Amaro Letestu twins (only 0.22 off becoming Portugal's first ever championship competitors!), Epps/Gilman (need +1.27) and Gallix/Egyed-Zsigmond, who recently switched from France to Hungary (need +2.10).

Just a minor correction - this weekend's upcoming competition in Istanbul is Bosphorus Cup, not Ephesus Cup. Ephesus Cup was scheduled for next month but is listed as cancelled on the ISU events page.

And, yes, Ziobrowska/Judd announced their split on IG over the weekend.

 

[Belsornia]

Just a minor correction - this weekend's upcoming competition in Istanbul is Bosphorus Cup, not Ephesus Cup. Ephesus Cup was scheduled for next month but is listed as cancelled on the ISU events page.

Down from three to one ice dance competitions in Turkiye this season - these teams will be hoping Rettstatt doesn't call in on his way back to NY.

 

[Tinycities]

Am I the only one a little confused of why ZingKol are getting blamed for La/La not making the GPF? Sarah brought it up today on the run through and then also it was implied in that Bev Smith article.

I thought it was quite clear that Lajoie/lagha didn’t do great at Skate Canada, which allowed Reed/Ambrulevicius to get silver and make it in to GPF. In the RD, Zak had hit the boards with his foot during the choreo sequence throwing them off and in the FD they got a !

While I wouldn’t argue that ZingKol could have been a little overscored at Cup of China, although I did think they skated lights out there and better there than Finlandia, they would have still won the silver if they had scored in the 197 range and still won the tiebreaker.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Am I the only one a little confused of why ZingKol are getting blamed for La/La not making the GPF? Sarah brought it up today on the run through and then also it was implied in that Bev Smith article.

I thought it was quite clear that Lajoie/lagha didn’t do great at Skate Canada, which allowed Reed/Ambrulevicius to get silver and make it in to GPF. In the RD, Zak had hit the boards with his foot during the choreo sequence throwing them off and in the FD they got a !

While I wouldn’t argue that ZingKol could have been a little overscored at Cup of China, although I did think they skated lights out there and better there than Finlandia, they would have still won the silver if they had scored in the 197 range and still won the tiebreaker.

ice dance has always seemed the discipline were medal results are based on pecking order. Because Marjorie and Zach have been together longer then they should be scoring higher and apply this to all the couples across the board. I mean in singles what makes it exciting for me someone come right from juniors and bam can win something and that will neverrrrr happen in ice dance. Look at the great Britain team. Look at the French team. They’re all scoring 10th in their debuts in the senior Grand Prix because they’re brand new so that means they can’t score any higher than last place for the next two years lol

That’s why I don’t always tune in to dance because there’s never usually that much excitement, the ones have been around together the longest are the ones that are going to score highest, and then, as soon as one team retires then just move everybody up by one slot. Lol. You go from winning medals everywhere your last two years in juniors, then basically directly to “whatever happened to?”….. in the senior arena. Not 100% of the time because Tali and lafornara did get a senior assignment as did the French and the British but you definitely need to wait your turn until the experienced seniors move out of the way.

Last year, the Americans in juniors the Peals and the Mullens won medals everywhere. Now they seem like ghosts because the pecking order in senior dance doesn’t allow them to even compete anywhere.

many will disagree with me. That’s fine. But that’s how I feel because that’s what I witness.

Of the four disciplines obviously ice dance is the one that needs the most correcting, fixing, and reimagining. And while they’re at that should they even manage all that allow same sex couples in some forum. Let’s welcome 2026 Please. Thank you dinosaurs, lol

 

[Peepsquick]

ice dance has always seemed the discipline were medal results are based on pecking order. Because Marjorie and Zach have been together longer then they should be scoring higher and apply this to all the couples across the board. I mean in singles what makes it exciting for me someone come right from juniors and bam can win something and that will neverrrrr happen in ice dance. Look at the great Britain team. Look at the French team. They’re all scoring 10th in their debuts in the senior Grand Prix because they’re brand new so that means they can’t score any higher than last place for the next two years lol

That’s why I don’t always tune in to dance because there’s never usually that much excitement, the ones have been around together the longest are the ones that are going to score highest, and then, as soon as one team retires then just move everybody up by one slot. Lol. You go from winning medals every where your last two years in juniors, then basically directly to “whatever happened to?”….. in the senior arena. Not 100% of the time because Tali and lafornara did get a senior assignment as did the French and the British but you definitely need to wait your turn until the experienced seniors move out of the way.

Last year, the Americans in juniors the Peals and the Mullens won medals everywhere. Now they seem like ghosts because the pecking order in senior dance doesn’t allow them to even compete anywhere.

many will disagree with me. That’s fine. But that’s how I feel because that’s what I witness.

Gabriella and Guillaume were the exception. I remember an interview of Stepanova/Bukin who were ahead of P/C in Juniors say that Junior and Senior are totally different worlds.

 

[manhn]

The French is not the exemption but the last. We had teams like B&A, Shibs, V&M, D&W, move up quite rapidly. This past quad has had very little movement at the top (I guess it changes with the new French team, but please) and I doubt many people would think the current top 3 teams compare to any other top 3 teams in previous eras. If we were gonna see rapid ascensions in ice dance, it should have been the past 4 years.

 

[~tapdancer~]

I am finding it a little difficult now to figure out exactly what the dancers are doing on the ice now. Mind you, I have followed ice dance since the 80s and have watched a lot of vids of ice dancers from back when it began. It is so different now. I miss CDs with a passion...you could for sure tell who had the skills when watching CDs. I miss the ODs and even the Short Dance was good. Because they had set patterns they had to follow that lasted longer than 10 seconds. Dancers now have to focus on their choreo in everything in the RD because they have to follow themes. Themes? How about we go back to picking a normal pattern based on the compulsory dances? WHY, oh why did they ever get rid of compulsory dances?

Also, I don't understand why more ice dancers don't get L4 for the one-foot step? They look pretty darn good to me but the judges seem to be so scrutinizing, one edge that wasn't quite deep enough...drop a level. I find most of the one-foot step sequences being done are lovely and really good. Unless it is an obvious mistake to drop the level, how are the edges judged? All have to be perfect? I guess it would help me if I read the rules and guidelines though.

 

[Bunny Hop]

Am I the only one a little confused of why ZingKol are getting blamed for La/La not making the GPF? Sarah brought it up today on the run through and then also it was implied in that Bev Smith article.

No, not just you. I also heard that on The Runthrough (this judging controversy is driving me to listen to multiple podcasts and not have my attention wander) and was surprised. Good teams were always going to miss out on GP Final and the results don't always go the way we expect at the start of the season. It's not the team's fault.

 

[skategal]

The French is not the exemption but the last. We had teams like B&A, Shibs, V&M, D&W, move up quite rapidly. This past quad has had very little movement at the top (I guess it changes with the new French team, but please) and I doubt many people would think the current top 3 teams compare to any other top 3 teams in previous eras. If we were gonna see rapid ascensions in ice dance, it should have been the past 4 years.

100% agree.

I think Ice Dance has a perception issue of their own making where people think it’s either rigged or results are pre-determined.

I think this is influencing the harsher calls at the last two GPs (possible scoring at last year’s worlds too - dumping G/F) as the tech callers “attempt” to “improve” the situation going into Olympics. (Ie. they can show that top teams get penalized for mistakes and the same teams don’t always finish where expected.)

 

[Peepsquick]

The French is not the exemption but the last. We had teams like B&A, Shibs, V&M, D&W, move up quite rapidly. This past quad has had very little movement at the top (I guess it changes with the new French team, but please) and I doubt many people would think the current top 3 teams compare to any other top 3 teams in previous eras. If we were gonna see rapid ascensions in ice dance, it should have been the past 4 years.

The were an exception in the fact that they were not regular winners of the Junior circuit and that for many casual ice dance followers, they seem to shoot to the top out of nowhere. V/M for example, were very much expected to be top contenders as seniors. They 'exploded' in the senior rankings when they started training full time in Montreal. Before that, their life was not exclusively spent on the ice rink.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Virtue/Moir also were able to break out because, by being young, they had been brought up from their second season in juniors in early CoP/early IJS with one new coach coach who knew how to exploit it best and who had already brought Belbin/Agosto to an Olympic medal. The term “code-whoring” didn’t come about for nothing.

 

[clairecloutier]

For those who haven't seen it yet, Gabriella Papadakis and Natalia Zabiiako posted this clip of them dancing together on IG :

𝐍𝐚𝐭𝐚𝐥𝐢𝐚 𝐙𝐚𝐛𝐢𝐢𝐚𝐤𝐨 on Instagram: "@gabriellapapadakis🤍🧊"

Join the discussion on authenticity and self-discovery through the lens of social interactions. Uncover the complexities of human identity and the nuances of everyday moments that reveal our true selves. With a focus on relatable experiences and everyday people, this video invites viewers to...

www.instagram.com

 

[puglover]

As my sweet mother used to often say "I would like to be a fly on the wall..". It must be extra challenging that IAM is the coaching team smack dab in the middle of this, especially if they received specific feedback on elements for one team prior to competition from the technical panel.

 

[angi]

Am I the only one a little confused of why ZingKol are getting blamed for La/La not making the GPF? Sarah brought it up today on the run through and then also it was implied in that Bev Smith article.

I don't think they are necessarily blamed, it's just that the last spot was between L/L and Z/K, who had the same number of points, but Z/K had a gap of just over 8 points in total score from L/L, and that's perceived to be due to the judging shenanigans we have been seeing through this entire GP season.
Having said that, Z/K are in no way responsible for the horrible judging we've been witnessing, and while I've seen many people say that L/L are the better team and deserved the spot, most of them also say that Z/K did their part and earned it by having two stellar competitions (even if their scoring/tech calls seem questionable).

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

The were an exception in the fact that they were not regular winners of the Junior circuit and that for many casual ice dance followers, they seem to shoot to the top out of nowhere. V/M for example, were very much expected to be top contenders as seniors. They 'exploded' in the senior rankings when they started training full time in Montreal. Before that, their life was not exclusively spent on the ice rink.

Wasn't there are lot of buzz about P&C after they won silver at Junior Worlds? One of thing about the ice dance rules this quad, I think (in the good/bad old days) they favour more established couples who come across as having more "mature" presentation even if there are younger teams competing who are technically better.