The Dance Hall 13: When You Dance on the Ice and Your Feet Twizzle Twice, That's Amore

Debbie S said:
Just a reminder that as the TC, he doesn't actually make the calls. The TS do that and the TC only gets involved if they disagree on a call.
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The TC can also call for a review if they disagree with the call made by the TS. They absolutely have an influence. And his would be even greater considering he is head of the IDTC so can say "this is what we meant when we made that rule".

eta... unfortunate imo that he is the TC for such an important event regarding who is the 6th team to make it into the GPF and will leave it at that.
 
At the Skate to Milano event we saw a relatively strict calling for twizzle levels that we were not accustomed to. The twizzles had for many years become a simple level 4 element unless a skater had a fall, or a step out. Basically if the skater completed the rotations on each foot they got a level 4. That is clearly not been the case so far this fall, and it will be interesting to see if this strict calling continues through the Olympics.
 
I can't believe how I went from really enjoying the fact that I don't have really strong feelings about the results in ice dance this year to finding myself really really irritated by the tech panel in these final two GP events. :lol:

I just really really hope Rettstatt has fulfilled his quota of tech panel assignments before the Olympics begins so I can watch without wanting to slap him :D
 
I'm not sure if the judging really became stricter or if the only thing that has changed is that IAM teams are being scrutinized as much as the teams from other training camps.

Candice Towler-Green was also on last season's Skate America tech panel, where she also counted Mrazeks' choreo at the start of their RD as their choreo step.
 
PRlady said:
Yes. I like Smart/Dieck and both Dune FDs but must root against them tomorrow because I want z/K in the GPF. But I hate it comes at LaLa’s expense, damn the Lithuanians. :shuffle:

I’m sure others have their problems as well.
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I am genuinely rooting for Lithuania here, I mean why not? (I actually love their RD.)
 
Marta24 said:
I'm not sure if the judging really became stricter or if the only thing that has changed is that IAM teams are being scrutinized as much as the teams from other training camps.

Candice Towler-Green was also on last season's Skate America tech panel, where she also counted Mrazeks' choreo at the start of their RD as their choreo step.
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Well Piper just gave a long quote about the current state of ice dance ( can read in RD thread ) and she isn't an IAM team. It isn't just IAM teams that are getting hit.

As for Candice T-G, they are in possession of program content sheets ahead of competition. They KNOW where each team plans to execute that element. Her and others are CHOOSING to apply an insanely strict standard to calling elements that can only stunt creativity to the point we end up with programs more like a pairs program where they just glide from element to element with nothing in between out of fear someone on a panel decides to be an ass that day and invalidate elements they do. This can also only lead to controversy as it can be so easily abused to affect results.
 
marbri said:
Well Piper just gave a long quote about the current state of ice dance ( can read in RD thread ) and she isn't an IAM team. It isn't just IAM teams that are getting hit.

As for Candice T-G, they are in possession of program content sheets ahead of competition. They KNOW where each team plans to execute that element. Her and others are CHOOSING to apply an insanely strict standard to calling elements that can only stunt creativity to the point we end up with programs more like a pairs program where they just glide from element to element with nothing in between out of fear someone on a panel decides to be an ass that day and invalidate elements they do. This can also only lead to controversy as it can be so easily abused to affect results.
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Correction: it is being abused to effect results.
 
GP judging has always been the most political, and this season is no exception. We're back to 1998-2002 levels of politiks :smokin:. After what was clearly bloc, biased judging in Angers, I quite correctly predicted that counter-blocs would form. I'm not surprised at what we've seen since.

The French bloc took out the Italians and pushed down the Brits in Angers; what did they expect from Italian and British tech specialists? Turnabout is fair play :smokin:. And don't expect any love from the American tech controller.

Gilles made a big mistake, so G&P's calling/score is a bit more justifiable, but again - I wouldn't expect any love from a USA-ITA-GBR tech panel given the fight for bronze in Milano.

What we're seeing is a reaction / continuation of what started in Angers.
 
Private Citizen said:
GP judging has always been the most political, and this season is no exception. We're back to 1998-2002 levels of politiks :smokin:. After what was clearly bloc, biased judging in Angers, I quite correctly predicted that counter-blocs would form. I'm not surprised at what we've seen since.

The French bloc took out the Italians and pushed down the Brits in Angers; what did they expect from Italian and British tech specialists? Turnabout is fair play :smokin:. And don't expect any love from the American tech controller.

Gilles made a big mistake, so G&P's calling/score is a bit more justifiable, but again - I wouldn't expect any love from a USA-ITA-GBR tech panel given the fight for bronze in Milano.

What we're seeing is a reaction / continuation of what started in Angers.
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Totally agreed and OMG, the chaotic old days are back!
 
Private Citizen said:
GP judging has always been the most political, and this season is no exception. We're back to 1998-2002 levels of politiks :smokin:. After what was clearly bloc, biased judging in Angers, I quite correctly predicted that counter-blocs would form. I'm not surprised at what we've seen since.

The French bloc took out the Italians and pushed down the Brits in Angers; what did they expect from Italian and British tech specialists? Turnabout is fair play :smokin:. And don't expect any love from the American tech controller.

Gilles made a big mistake, so G&P's calling/score is a bit more justifiable, but again - I wouldn't expect any love from a USA-ITA-GBR tech panel given the fight for bronze in Milano.

What we're seeing is a reaction / continuation of what started in Angers.
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But what support do Italians expect to get with those programs? I mean.......make this make sense. FBC was objectively better than the Italians and British on aggregate. They were only 3rd after the RD, so first and second were up for grabs if they had the skates and material, which they didn't. This retaliation is uncalled for, IMHO.
 
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Bigbird said:
But what support do Italians expect to get with those programs? I mean.......make this make sense. FBC was objectively better than the Italians and British on aggregate. They were only 3rd after the RD, so first and second were up for grabs if they had the skates and material, which they didn't. This retaliation is uncalled for, IMHO.
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Well, but even in real-time during GPdF, people were commenting on how FearGib lost levels on the review during the FD - enough to give FBCiz the win by the slimmest of margins. Overall, I thought FearGib should have won in Angers and had they won, we might not be seeing quite the retaliation with the counter-blocs forming as PC noted. It's sort of "you want to hose FearGib on levels in France, then FBCiz better watch their backs because they're likely going to be hosed on at least one call at their next GP" - and that's exactly what happened. The FFSG worked a little too hard in Angers. FBCiz would still have qualified for the GPF with a silver medal there.
 
And remind us again who the tech panel was in Angers? ITA-CAN-USA, that's who. Why would they be interested in keeping Fear/Gibson down at the expense of FB/C. A team who one would think would be a bigger challenge to each of their #1 interests?

I am a bit :lol: that that seems to be the main focus for some and not Shawn Rettstatt. A man with a very clear pattern. n
 
marbri said:
And remind us again who the tech panel was in Angers? ITA-CAN-USA, that's who. Why would they be interested in keeping Fear/Gibson down at the expense of FB/C. A team who one would think would be a bigger challenge to each of their #1 interests?

I am a bit :lol: that that seems to be the main focus for some and not Shawn Rettstatt. A man with a very clear pattern. n
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Precisely. Forget FB/C, how do you give G/P level 1s on both pattern steps and midline step sequences at the end of the GP season and a B, for her twizzles? Are they just collateral damage, and the aim was to lower the FBC score? What point does it make? They're still going to make it to the GPF?
 
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Should watching tomorrow be something that even interests me? Or should I sleep and just look at the results? Cause today I bought the chips and everything, and this was just so underwhelming. No more wasting of my time. Sigh.
 
It's just wholly weird that the levels are so low this season.
I read somewhere, that with regard to the pattern steps that the teams can only "retrogress" going in or out of the steps, which is a new rule, from what I understand.
However I am no technical expert. People better than me here can address that.
But based on my base understanding it seems night impossible to not retrogress at all.

As for both the choreo issue with the French and the base levels on the G/P twizzles, it seems a bit harsh and bewildering.

I don't know what's going on. It seems that the panels in general have been super strict, some way more than other panels and the teams are all just confused.
 
thvu said:
Our thoughts on the Finlandia Trophy RD calling mess:

thvu

Post in thread 'The Skating Session - A New Show'

SOS Ice Dance Judging - S2E12 - Special Episode on Finlandia Trophy Rhythm Dance & Reaction​


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I was literally just bemoaning the fact I'd have to wait until Sunday to hear you two tear this shit apart, thank you for having zero chill about any of this. :lol:
 
marbri said:
The TC can also call for a review if they disagree with the call made by the TS. They absolutely have an influence.
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marbri said:
And remind us again who the tech panel was in Angers? ITA-CAN-USA, that's who. Why would they be interested in keeping Fear/Gibson down at the expense of FB/C. A team who one would think would be a bigger challenge to each of their #1 interests?

I am a bit :lol: that that seems to be the main focus for some and not Shawn Rettstatt. A man with a very clear pattern. n
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Rettstatt, or any other member of the tech panel, is still just one person. My understanding is that, regarding calls, the majority rules. At least two of the three members of the tech panel have to agree. All three tech panelists could agree on a call, or two agree, with the third dissenting. And these alliances need not be consistent. It could change from call to call.

Do we know how the members of the tech panel voted? Or are posters speculating and then forming conclusions assuming their speculation is fact?

If anyone knows for sure how the tech panelists voted, I would love to hear about it.
 
No one can know how they voted but I can tell you with 100% assurance that Rettstatt was the leader of the group last week. I literally sat right behind them. No one is going above and beyond to argue with the technical committee chair!
 
Thomas and Tony, I wanted to ask you something about Skate America, but haven't manage so far. During the FD, didn't Chock lose her balance during the third set of twizzles? I was thinking about this especially after Gilles's base level tonight.
Also, thank you for all the clips, you are a treasure!
 
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