Superstitions for Prediction of Olympic Gold Medalists. Zagitova wins?

I think the bent arm is actually truer to the orginal ballet move. But straight or bent, the system should not be rewarding these meaningless moves to the current extent. The credit, if any, should be in presentation.

As said before, "it's all in the eyes of the beholder!" I find it distracting and unattractive when any of them do it! Once is fine, but not on every element! It's plain and simply hideous to see IMO even if they can get through the routine without an error! It's more pronounced if they blow a jumping pass! It's like, "get through it without all the fan fare!" From what little I understand, they might get a couple points (grade of execution) for the jumps technically, but they lose points artistically (compulsory) since it's so ugly to see! :rolleyes: :duh: :kickass: :irina1: :puppet: :oksana1:
 
I could see Boyang Jin pulling an upset and maybe winning if he’s healthy. I’m assuming the men’s event will be a splatfest and he does have a tendency to peak at the right time as evidenced by his 2 Worlds medals. I don’t think it’s the most likely scenario but it’s definitely possible.

As for the ladies, if Med is clean I still thinks she wins. If she makes mistakes though then Zagitova could sneak in there or maybe even Osmond or Kostner if either can magically skate a totally clean free.
 
In any case, neither are Zagitova and Medvedeva "balletic at all." :oksana1: :p

I don't say they are. But Medvedeva doesn't skate to the most well-known, classic ballet piece.. Zagitova is also an athletic young skater and she skates to a ballet music but it suits very well for her. Osmond is too "strong", too athletic for a Swan. I didn't like Portman's Black Swan, too. She has too short arms , etc. I know she did a great job in the movie!!! but that is not a lucky thing if we compare to the real balerinas.
 
I don't say they are. But Medvedeva doesn't skate to the most well-known, classic ballet piece.. Zagitova is also an athletic young skater and she skates to a ballet music but it suits very well for her. Osmond is too "strong", too athletic for a Swan. I didn't like Portman's Black Swan, too. She has a too short arms , etc. I know she did a great job in the movie!!! but that is not a lucky thing if we compare to the real balerinas.

Carolina just doesn't have the technical content anymore! I don't care about her maturity and experience to sway people with the artistic side of skating, you need a 3/3 of some sort and she's been doubling the 2nd jump even after a 3 Flip! These other girls are hitting 3Lutz/3T's! Kostner would have to do something not seen in years just to snatch a BRONZE medal IMO! :rolleyes: :COP: :irina1: :oksana1: :sarah1: :sasha1:
 
I don't say they are. But Medvedeva doesn't skate to the most well-known, classic ballet piece.. Zagitova is also an athletic young skater and she skates to a ballet music but it suits very well for her. Osmond is too "strong", too athletic for a Swan. I didn't like Portman's Black Swan, too. She has too short arms , etc. I know she did a great job in the movie!!! but that is not a lucky thing if we compare to the real balerinas.

Your idea of ballerinas may be out of date. These days a lot of professional ballet dancers in the US are very muscular and built more like Osmond than Medvedeva. In Russia that’s not the case, but internationally, ballerinas aren’t always little waifs. I’ve seen a few Alvin Ailey shows live and those girls are strong and muscular, much more athletic looking than one might expect...
 
Who is the most responsible for the ruination of women's figure skating? Speedy? The Russians? Sale and Pelletier? Scott and Sandra? All of the above?
 
Your idea of ballerinas may be out of date. These days a lot of professional ballet dancers in the US are very muscular and built more like Osmond than Medvedeva. In Russia that’s not the case, but internationally, ballerinas aren’t always little waifs. I’ve seen a few Alvin Ailey shows live and those girls are strong and muscular, much more athletic looking than one might expect...
Do you think Missy Copeland? I like the Russian style..for example https://www.instagram.com/p/BYikjmNn3MM/?taken-by=kokolizik I don't think Russians will be involved in the "new wave"
 
Russia goes from not having any women at the Olympics 24 years ago to prognostications of a clean sweep of the podium in Gangneung! How did this happen? They were bereft of talent after Irina retired, now they're flush; men and women! Love Tara's comment on a telecast; "Plushenko will not be attending his 18th Olympics!" :rolleyes: :plush: :respec: :rofl: :duh:

Truly amazing. Part of the reason may be that in the past those with the most talent went for pairs or ice dance and we saw how USSR/Russia dominated those disciplines for decades. I think at some point the ladies and some men realized that they could earn the medals entirely on their own. Although it seemed like after Irina's retirement there was no one left, there were many young ladies waiting in the wings. Once they became junior age eligible (and later senior) the medals started flowing in.

We do see the downturn in pairs and ice dance because so much talent has moved to singles skating.
 
Truly amazing. Part of the reason may be that in the past those with the most talent went for pairs or ice dance and we saw how USSR/Russia dominated those disciplines for decades. I think at some point the ladies and some men realized that they could earn the medals entirely on their own. Although it seemed like after Irina's retirement there was no one left, there were many young ladies waiting in the wings. Once they became junior age eligible (and later senior) the medals started flowing in.

We do see the downturn in pairs and ice dance because so much talent has moved to singles skating.

Russia finally caught up with the selfishness of Americans! I still wince thinking of Kristi Yamaguchi who dropped her partner Rudy Galindo with so little fanfare! Lucky both have been more successful in singles! How did that go down? I had stopped watching during that period ticked off the results; all about Hamilton and Boitano which was nauseating in the pros and amateur events! :rolleyes: :wall: :barrel :TnD1: :irina1: :plush:
 
Russia finally caught up with the selfishness of Americans! I still wince thinking of Kristi Yamaguchi who dropped her partner Rudy Galindo with so little fanfare! Lucky both have been more successful in singles! How did that go down? I had stopped watching during that period ticked off the results; all about Hamilton and Boitano which was nauseating in the pros and amateur events! :rolleyes: :wall: :barrel :TnD1: :irina1: :plush:
Kristi made the right though painful decision to focus on singles
Because-

1. Her singles coach moved to Canada and her pairs coach died, so she and Rudy started training in S. Cal. With Nicks. The distance alone created big problems.

2. In 1990 even though they were training in the Bay Area, the stress of competing in two disciplines cost Kristi medals in both.

3. Pairs were dominated by Russians Like the legendary M&D, G&G and other talented pairs at that time. It would have taken a miracle for Y&G to beat them and win the gold. Her chances were much better in singles.

It was sad for Rudy to lose his pairs career. He rebounded eventually and won the US championship and a world bronze as a singles skater. Both of them had a lot of natural talent, so it worked out in the end. For lesser skaters I don't think it would have.

About selfishness, skaters are going to do what is best for themselves. They didn't have much control in the USSRut after 1991 they list the financial support but got more freedom to choose.
 
Kristi made the right though painful decision to focus on singles
Because-

1. Her singles coach moved to Canada and her pairs coach died, so she and Rudy started training in S. Cal. With Nicks. The distance alone created big problems.

2. In 1990 even though they were training in the Bay Area, the stress of competing in two disciplines cost Kristi medals in both.

3. Pairs were dominated by Russians Like the legendary M&D, G&G and other talented pairs at that time. It would have taken a miracle for Y&G to beat them and win the gold. Her chances were much better in singles.

It was sad for Rudy to lose his pairs career. He rebounded eventually and won the US championship and a world bronze as a singles skater. Both of them had a lot of natural talent, so it worked out in the end. For lesser skaters I don't think it would have.

About selfishness, skaters are going to do what is best for themselves. They didn't have much control in the USSRut after 1991 they list the financial support but got more freedom to choose.

The prerequisite to all of this was that compulsory figures were eliminated. This automatically made Kristi a top 3 competitor in the World because she had consistent 3Lz-combo, 3Lz, 3F, 3Lp, 3T, and 2A.

It must have been like a miracle that all of a sudden the 20% Kristi did not score well in was completely eliminated.

IIRC it was surprising that figures were totally eliminated. I think Fassi believed they were going to remain part of the competition until the 1992 Olympics as 10% of the score.

At 1990 US Nationals the Compulsory Figures rankings were:
1. Jill Trenary
2. Holly Cook
3. Tonya Harding
4. Jeri Campbell
5. Kristi Yamaguchi

At 1990 Worlds the Compulsory Figures rankings were:
1. Jill Trenary
2. Natalia Lebedeva
3. Patricia Neske
4. Holly Cook
5. Željka Čižmešija
6. Beatrice Gelmini
7. Lisa Sargeant
8. Marina Kielmann
9. Kristi Yamaguchi
10. Midori Ito
 
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^^ The ISU needed to study the situation with a lot more input from a variety of people in the sport, as well as seeking counsel from fs historians. The complication was that figures were not understandable by television audiences, and not easy to cover. However, if tv cameras can cover curling, they can certainly cover figures competitions! The sport should have made training in figures mandatory, and cut back figures in regular competitions gradually rather than precipitously. They also should have understood the importance of nurturing the professional ranks, as well as growing the sport through providing increased opportunities for skaters (via contemplating developing separate figures competitions, artistic competitions, etc.) As it is, TPTB are currently struggling to figure out what direction to go in after the unwieldy mistakes they have made with the scoring system, with overemphasis on quads for men, and with their dismissive, wrongheaded effort to kill pro competitions.

Who is the most responsible for the ruination of women's figure skating? Speedy? The Russians? Sale and Pelletier? Scott and Sandra? All of the above?

:lol: :p Everything goes in cycles... everything is always changing. Unfortunately, there's been such a lack of vision in figure skating, much less an understanding of how figure skating evolved. Speedy and his speedskating regime had no idea how important it is to understand the past in order to grasp the present and chart the future.

IMO, all of the disciplines just go along to get along. There are some bright spots here and there by virtue of extremely talented young people and innovative choreographers, who unfortunately are hamstrung by the antiquated rules and often undermined and abused by the unnecessarily complicated, misapplied scoring system. Ladies especially, but indeed all skaters, need to be encouraged to be more creative and to explore who they are as individuals on the ice, rather than being expected to adhere to antiquated notions and overly traditional conventions.

Although I don't always agree with Sandra Bezic, I do think she answered some of the questions about Eteri's factory with honest aplomb (in her recent chat with TSL). OTOH, Bezic at the same time seems to adore Evgenia Medvedeva, and voiced her belief that Med will be embraced by a worldwide audience at the Olympics. That's probably true, but it will be more likely due to Med's huge babydoll brown eyes, her quick rotations, and the overhype (reminiscent of what went on with Lipnitskaya in 2014). I'm sure though that Medvedeva has the personality and grit to handle it all. If she's healthy, Med's consistency may help her prevail. Unfortunately, the way Eteri has boxed Med in with all this arch OTT pantomime, and point-gathering backloading is a downer.

Both Med and Zagitova are technically exceptional, but their PCS scores are so overdone, it's ridiculous. Med has been steered very wrong. Her competitive skating is so inauthentic, but her exhibitions have allowed more of her true personality to seep through. It's probably too late to strip down all the bells and whistles, and just allow Med to be herself on the ice. The same goes for Alina Zagitova. As Bezic said, Alina is covered in so much stuff, we can barely see her. That calculated ballerina shtick is not who Alina is at all! She's more angular, modern and edgy, than she is balletic. TSL said something about Alina giving off a tapdancer vibe, which to me sounds more apropos. Unfortunately, Alina is stuck in a faux Kitri/ Black Swan twilight zone. That the ISU judges robotically feel they must over-reward on PCS for these calculated, inauthentic Eteri-designed desperation traps, is stupefying. Kudos re the technical excellence these girls display. However, why must such superb technique be accompanied by such misbegotten packaging and a total lack of creative vision?
 
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Where have you been hiding the last few years? Russian ladies have been dominant. It's not surprising that 5 out of 6 in the JGPF are Russian. Eteri's skaters swept the podium.
Actually I didn't pay attention to the JGP until the final and they were introducing the skaters. But not surprising really as they have been the star performers over the last few years.
 
The judges may live to regret giving Alina such high PCS in her first senior season. It means Evgenia has less room for error.
Good for competition, though. A GPF commentator (I think that is where I heard this) said that Eteri pits Zag and Med against each other by making comments about how the other is working so hard, or look at the jumps the other can do.
 
Carolina just doesn't have the technical content anymore! I don't care about her maturity and experience to sway people with the artistic side of skating, you need a 3/3 of some sort and she's been doubling the 2nd jump even after a 3 Flip! These other girls are hitting 3Lutz/3T's! Kostner would have to do something not seen in years just to snatch a BRONZE medal IMO! :rolleyes: :COP: :irina1: :oksana1: :sarah1: :sasha1:
The problem of Carolina's content is the Lutz, not a 3/3. She doesn't need a 3/3 in the LP as long as she doesn't have a 3Lz.
She already has 6 triples + 2 2Axels planned in her LP.
 
Good for competition, though. A GPF commentator (I think that is where I heard this) said that Eteri pits Zag and Med against each other by making comments about how the other is working so hard, or look at the jumps the other can do.

I can't imagine that would be a useful tool to use for a lot of people.
 
Maybe not for most, but after all, figure skaters are competitors so it could help increase one's motivation to work harder.

i think eventually it will lead to a coaching split. Yagudin and Pluschenko were both fierce competitors, but eventually one of them had to leave Mishin, and that's without him actively trying to pit them against each other.

I can't imagine it working long term psychologically pitting your top skaters against each other. Many skaters talk about being inspired seeing other high calibre skaters around them, but having your coach whispering in your ear about what your competitor is doing to try to motivate, seems like it would be far more damaging. Brian Orser successfully has rivals and he's made a point of never pitting the skaters against each other.

Tutberidze's methods seem at least a little questionable post Lipnitskaya.
 
i think eventually it will lead to a coaching split. Yagudin and Pluschenko were both fierce competitors, but eventually one of them had to leave Mishin, and that's without him actively trying to pit them against each other.

I can't imagine it working long term psychologically pitting your top skaters against each other. Many skaters talk about being inspired seeing other high calibre skaters around them, but having your coach whispering in your ear about what your competitor is doing to try to motivate, seems like it would be far more damaging. Brian Orser successfully has rivals and he's made a point of never pitting the skaters against each other.

Tutberidze's methods seem at least a little questionable post Lipnitskaya.

Does Eteri actively pit her skaters against each other though?
 
I hope this superstition is just that-superstition, because I want Zhenya Medvedeva to win the OGM in 2018.

Me too! This thread has me all in a panic!!:fragile:

I do take comfort that I'm 99.9% positive that the gold medal will be in Zhenya's own control. Despite the TES advantage that Alina has, Zhenya's PCS will be enough for her to win if she skates clean. That luxury of having control of one's own destiny is more than a lot of skaters have going for them.
 
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Well, about Superstitions for Predictions of Olympic Skaters. I've discovered about 90 percent of the time that if I wish an awesome skate and post in one of the threads about it right before the skater performs the program (like "Go --------! Wishing you the best!), then the skaters ends up falling or running into the wall or even worse. Notice I didn't mention any name.

So from now on, I'm going to say "No way!! You won't even do your best, ----------!!" Maybe just the opposite will happen and I won't jinx the skater! :40beers:
 
Me too! This thread has me all in a panic!!:fragile:

I do take comfort that I'm 99.9% positive that the gold medal will be in Zhenya's own control. Despite the TES advantage that Alina has, Zhenya's PCS will be enough for her to win if she skates clean. That luxury of having control of one's own destiny is more than a lot of skaters have going for them.

The key will be Zhenya's health. If she is fully healed and has had the practice time she needed, she will be tough to beat.
 
The woman on top of the podium at the Olympics is often wearing a blue (or blue-ish tinged) dress for at least one program.
- Katarina Witt (1988)
- Kristi Yamaguchi (depending on the video or photo, her dress looks either blue or teal)
- Tara Lipinski
- Sarah Hughes
- Shizuka Arakawa
- Yu Na Kim
- Adelina Sotnikova (blue-ish grey)

Between 1988 and 2014, the only lady to win without wearing blue (ish) in either program was Oksana Baiul (and if she had kept her original 1993 LP dress, she would have fit the trend).

So based on history, my money is on one of the blue-clad ladies. Some of the top ladies waring blue (ish) this year:
- Evgenia Medvedeva
- Kaetlyn Osmond
- Satoko Miyahara
- Wakaba Higuchi
 
If you are a reigning world pairs champion, you are likely to win the Olympic gold.
 

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