Should Eteri be called "The Madame" at this point?

muffinplus said:
Actually, no, Eteri was the one who came up with this program for Alina according to Daniil Gleykh.
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Whoa, really? To me, the whole EX seems totally out of Eteri's wheelhouse given her obsession with packaging her skaters as little girls.

I think my point still stands, though--besides Alina's cringe-y EX, is there any other instance of Eteri sexualizing children to warrant such a loaded accusation? Usually, I'd say she has the opposite problem.
 
vodkashot said:
Whoa, really? To me, the whole EX seems totally out of Eteri's wheelhouse given her obsession with packaging her skaters as little girls.

I think my point still stands, though--besides Alina's cringe-y EX, is there any other instance of Eteri sexualizing children to warrant such a loaded accusation?
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No, the namecalling /thread premise are ridiculous
 
I don't think we should call Eteri names, but I think there's no issue in questioning her methods. I'm particularly disturbed by the weigh ins and some of the things Meagan Duhamel said about the constant criticism and weekly booting out of skaters who aren't progressing fast enough (especially since for many girls they are skating to support their families).

Meoima said:
Yes and it’s to mature up her image but everyone hates it lol
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There's a huge difference between "maturing up her image" and making her do a pedobait routine not unlike something Britney Spears did when she was 18 or 19. Writhing around in a catsuit and doing sexy poses while laying down isn't appropriate for a 15-year-old.
There are plenty of teenage skaters doing mature routines that aren't pedobait - I'd say Karen Chen's On Golden Pond was mature, as is Kaori Sakamoto's Moonlight Sonata, many of Medvedeva and Miyahara's programs, etc. etc.
 
Skaters have to audition to get into Tutberidze's group. She has plenty of students who want in the group. She doesn't take a student now unless they are willing to do the work. So, parents and skaters apparently don't have a problem with the program.
 
Parents and students may not know the full story of everything that goes on in Eteri’s group. Or they may be so deep into their dreams/investment in skating that they can’t necessarily make the wisest decisions for the long term.

BTW, those who believe that pushing young athletes to the max and beyond is the right path to success should take a look at this article, which outlines the heavy price young gymnasts paid to fulfill the Karolyis’ and others’ gold-medal dreams in gymnastics: https://www.mysanantonio.com/news/t...al-and-12704387.php?__twitter_impression=true.
 
Just one thing, I LOVED Zagitova's cat exhibition. It is by far my favorite program of hers thus far. Kind of dissapointed to read so many of you hated it. I guess that does bring up one important point, how much of "artistry" (and many thinking Zagitova's PCS were far too inflated and she won because of that) is and always will be subjective to a certain degree.

Back on Julia, I think it is unfair to blame her having an eating disorder entirely on Eteri. One thing to remember is Julia was coached by Eteri for years, and long before she was any kind of a hot commodity in Russian skating. In fact Julia probably many times was encouraged to dump Eteri and go to say Tarasova or Mishin. She never did, so obviously she herself did not find any of Eteri's methods or treatment of her wrong, as it would have been incredibly easy to leave her at that point, and no way could she have known Eteri would become the hot ticket of Russian ladies by Sochi. And even Sochi itself is debateable when it was Tarasova protege and Vodorezova (who herself had more coaching exploits than Eteri at that point) the official coach of the controversial winner- Sotnikova, who also beat Julia at Russian Nationals that very year when each had a mistake in either program and the result could have easily gone either way. Julia accepted the choice to go on the diet Eteri recommended, and also stay with her for years long before she was a hot commodity, she obviously had no problem with it or anything else Eteri did. It is still slanderous to now paint Eteri as some kind of criminal or monster, especialy if that is the best evidence that exists.
 
judgejudy27 said:
Just one thing, I LOVED Zagitova's cat exhibition. It is by far my favorite program of hers thus far. Kind of dissapointed to read so many of you hated it. I guess that does bring up one important point, how much of "artistry" (and many thinking Zagitova's PCS were far too inflated and she won because of that) is and always will be subjective to a certain degree.
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You "LOVED" watching a 15 year old girl dressed up in a skintight animal print with provocative cutouts writhing around in sexual poses on the ice? What is wrong with you?

judgejudy27 said:
Julia accepted the choice to go on the diet Eteri recommended, and also stay with her for years long before she was a hot commodity, she obviously had no problem with it or anything else Eteri did.
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This is insane. The coach recommended the girl starve herself, she developed anorexia, which she said went back years with Eteri, and you blame the little girl with no agency?

judgejudy27 said:
It is still slanderous to now paint Eteri as some kind of criminal or monster, especialy if that is the best evidence that exists.
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Not slanderous at all. Exposing abuse in the sport is important. Child abusers need to be eradicated from figure skating. There is no such thing as "win at all costs". It is exploitation. It is abuse.
 
judgejudy27 said:
Just one thing, I LOVED Zagitova's cat exhibition. It is by far my favorite program of hers thus far. Kind of dissapointed to read so many of you hated it. I guess that does bring up one important point, how much of "artistry" (and many thinking Zagitova's PCS were far too inflated and she won because of that) is and always will be subjective to a certain degree.
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To each their own. I felt gross and uncomfortable looking at pictures and clips of Zag's exhibition. I don't know how any adult in their sane mind would let a 15-year old girl wear an exposed leopard/cheetah suit to go writhe about on ice. It left a really bad taste in my mouth. Maybe the Russians have a more lax attitude towards sexualization of minors.
 
I am not sure about child abuse, it's kinda too much. These kids are firstly driven by their parents to the skating school. Anything they do must get permission from their parents first. If anything, we have to ask the parents if they think the way their children are being coached ok or not.
 
skateboy said:
As for Alina's exhibition, I've seen it 3 or 4 times now and fail to see anything even hinting at sexuality.
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Yeah, I thought it was nice to see the modern dance quality of Alina's exhibition performance after the incessant tutu shtick. Maybe the choreo could have had less rolling around over the ice, but in general I went with the overall Goddess of Fire theme. Still, with Eteri's track record of trying to camouflage her charges' youth and immaturity, there were obviously some sexualized overtones in Alina's exhibition.

But again, I saw the performance as more of a modern dance number and not as egregious as the icky choice to have a 13-year-old skate to Hey, Big Spender, lyrics and all. The sport in general needs to check itself and the Lolita-style overtones of it's fixation with rushing young female teenagers into adult roles and premature over-expectations. Certainly, there's an overlap with global cultural acceptance of female exploitation, involving females of all ages.
 
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Meoima said:
We don’t have to agree with her method.
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I believe that is the question, though: Are her methods morally acceptable?

judgejudy27 said:
Julia accepted the choice to go on the diet Eteri recommended, and also stay with her for years long before she was a hot commodity, she obviously had no problem with it or anything else Eteri did.
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rfisher said:
So, parents and skaters apparently don't have a problem with the program.
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Meoima said:
If anything, we have to ask the parents if they think the way their children are being coached ok or not.
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I'm not certain that Eteri is guilty of any intentional negligence or abuse. However, the fact that skaters and/or their parents don't notice or care does not prove there's nothing wrong, either.

vodkashot said:
I think my point still stands, though--besides Alina's cringe-y EX, is there any other instance of Eteri sexualizing children to warrant such a loaded accusation? Usually, I'd say she has the opposite problem.
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I think you mean that you are looking for a pattern to give insight into her intentions before accusing her of sexualizing children at all, but it sounds like you are saying it's fine as long as there's only one victim: other instance of her sexualizing children? Would one not be enough?
 
Well to say something in her favor her American pair liked her. And she advocated ice stroking in her curriculum and I always liked how the Russians are so "into their knees" on the ice. I do dread years of back loaded programs.

OTOH I remember reading some interview with Med and she was asked what she eats and she mentioned a piece of fish and that was it. I hope she is eating enough.
BTW what happened to Piteev?
 
Meoima said:
I am not sure about child abuse, it's kinda too much. These kids are firstly driven by their parents to the skating school. Anything they do must get permission from their parents first. If anything, we have to ask the parents if they think the way their children are being coached ok or not.
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I imagine if Eteri came back to North America there would be a line of skate moms with their daughters fighting for her instruction for better or for worse.
 
Cachoo said:
Well to say something in her favor her American pair liked her. And she advocated ice stroking in her curriculum and I always liked how the Russians are so "into their knees" on the ice. I do dread years of back loaded programs.

OTOH I remember reading some interview with Med and she was asked what she eats and she mentioned a piece of fish and that was it. I hope she is eating enough.
BTW what happened to Piteev?
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Pitkeev had a serious injury and really can’t jump anymore. He is in ice dance now...
 
Willin said:
I also wonder if it's cultural. In Russia abusive training methods seem to be accepted as necessary to win; if the USA Gymnastics backlash about training methods at the Karolyi Ranch is any indication, abusive training is disliked but not entirely absent in the US.
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I'm not so sure there is as much of a cultural difference as you think and the glorification of the Karolyis in the US media is the perfect example. There were plenty of stories about how abusive the Karolyis were and yet as recently as 2016, there is a gigantic (hour long with commercials) fluff piece in the middle of NBC's Olympic coverage, calling Martha and Bela's story "a love story." I can't find it on YouTube, so here is a humorous description of the piece that gives a sense of what it was like:
https://balancebeamsituation.com/2016/08/28/vampires-and-nadia-comaneci-the-karolyi-story/

Had the Nassar situation not come out, Americans would have been perfectly happy to let the Karolyis continue on with their abusive ways.

Sorry for the off-topic rant. As for Eteri, I'm troubled by trends in her camp. Trusova is another example of someone who has super inappropriate programs. And it will be interesting to see how Med reacts to not being on top all the time. That's about all I have to say about that.
 
IMO, there is a huge difference between a coach mishandling a specific problem with a specific skater and a coach being abusive. That Eteri mishandled things with Yulia, or that Frank mishandled things with Gracie (in failing to recognize -- or even encouraging -- eating disorders) could mean ignorance rather than abuse. If coaches don't learn from their mistakes is a different matter, but I haven't seen any evidence of that yet (although I did not see the exhibitions)
 
I have no idea what Eteri is like as I have never met her. But you can not deny her results they are incredible. Be it her current 8 year old boy with his triples, current junior champ with quads or current Olympic champ.
 
rfisher said:
Well, Big Spender is quite common among young US skaters as well, so I don't think that's limited to the Russians. Most of the kids/coaches pick it for the melody and not the words anyway.
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That. And the fact the instrumental version was used for decades before lyrics where allowed. The theme was nonetheless the same i.e. strippers taunting patrons. Then, I doubt that "I don't pop my cork for every man I see" meant something else than opening a bottle of champagne when Bob Fosse created Sweet Charity in the 60s. Nobody sued Shirley Bassey for being inappropriate when her own version was released. There was no Urban Dictionnary at the time. To me it mainly refers to something scatological rather than sexual. And most people whose native language isn't English have no idea what it means anyway. I discussed it with some French and Italian friends not long ago, their English is fluent but they had no idea this particular sentence could have a sexual connotation. It could be exactly the same in the Kingdom of Eteri. Most strippers are not hookers anyway. I assume the lyrics were to be taken stricto sensu when the song was written : strippers are here to entertain people and make them spend money. Hence the title of the song. I agree it's clumsy to make a young girl skate to this song but it certainly doesn't make you a pimp or a brothel keeper. Nor is it to dress a 15 y.o. in a tiger suit. All I saw was a young girl dressed as a big cat mimicking a big cat rolling and stretching.
 
rfisher said:
Well, Big Spender is quite common among young US skaters as well, so I don't think that's limited to the Russians. Most of the kids/coaches pick it for the melody and not the words anyway.
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that was before the introduction of lyrics into skating programs... It sure ahs a good musciality to it... but with the lyrics? iiikkk...
 
Erin said:
I'm not so sure there is as much of a cultural difference as you think and the glorification of the Karolyis in the US media is the perfect example. There were plenty of stories about how abusive the Karolyis were and yet as recently as 2016, there is a gigantic (hour long with commercials) fluff piece in the middle of NBC's Olympic coverage, calling Martha and Bela's story "a love story." I can't find it on YouTube, so here is a humorous description of the piece that gives a sense of what it was like:
https://balancebeamsituation.com/2016/08/28/vampires-and-nadia-comaneci-the-karolyi-story/

Had the Nassar situation not come out, Americans would have been perfectly happy to let the Karolyis continue on with their abusive ways.

Sorry for the off-topic rant. As for Eteri, I'm troubled by trends in her camp. Trusova is another example of someone who has super inappropriate programs. And it will be interesting to see how Med reacts to not being on top all the time. That's about all I have to say about that.
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All of this... That's my thought. I have the Karolyis vibes x 1000. I could go on on how I see Medvedeva and Zagitova's personality being shaped around pleasing the coaches. I don't see healthy girls (and I know I,ll have a 30-reply ling thread about how they are great little bubbly teenagers having a real life)

And I have had a weird feeling seeing Zagitova in her tiger suit with the nude fabric amost over her butt. Even mu husband had a remark about that...
 
I do admit the interview left me chilly when she called her skaters material. I guess I would prefer a warmer relationship without the threat of being tossed if you do not produce.
 
vodkashot said:
Eteri sexualizing children? Seriously...?

Besides Zagitova's awful tiger/catsuit EX this season, I can't think of a single instance of Eteri's students ever being presented in a sexual manner. Lipnitskaya under Eteri was always packaged as a little girl (e.g. the little girl in the red dress, the little girl drawing hearts in the sand), Medvedeva is almost always covered up in long-sleeved costumes with serious Averbukh programs in which she's pretending to do non-sexual stuff like skip ropes, read books, and be deaf, and Eteri's other skaters like Kostornaia, Tarakanova and Trusova all have age-appropriate programs and costumes (granted, Trusova's skating to "Big Spender" this season but the choreography is very much in a cutesy TA-DA style instead of sexual).

Given Eteri's track record of packaging her students as little girls, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Zagitova's awful EX was Zagitova's own idea instead of Eteri's.
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Agree. Didn't see a single sexy vibe in either program of either girl. All four were age appropriate, neither were overtly sexy.

I don't even find the tiger suit thing to be overtly sexual.
 
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