Should Eteri be called "The Madame" at this point?

As for the coach starving the youngster to death, the folks go into these sorts of training programs with their eyes open - or at least you hope they do. If you don't approve of this sort of practice - and I, for one, do not - then the participants are free to leave. Moreover, their parents are free to pull them out of the program. When you want to be a Navy Seal, you go into the whole thing knowing it is going to be hell on earth, at least until you graduate and become a Seal. Supposedly, that is what you want and you choose a program which is going to lead to that end. The Seals have this bell they can ring when they have had enough and want to leave the program. They literally go up to a bell swinging on a pole of some sort and they physically ring it after which they are out of the program. They call it "ringing the bell" and once they do so, they go back to being ordinary Navy sailors, a perfectly respectable thing to be. Once a person rings the bell, he is no longer in the Seal program. Mom and Dad can say "that's enough" and pull the kid out. The coach is not holding a gun to their head and forcing the children to stay in the program - either they or their parents want them to be there. This is why people have parents - to raise and protect them during the years before they become an adult and can make their own decisions. Let's not forget that plenty of people become anorexic entirely on their own, without any help from this coach or others like her.
 
brennele said:
As for the coach starving the youngster to death, the folks go into these sorts of training programs with their eyes open - or at least you hope they do. If you don't approve of this sort of practice - and I, for one, do not - then the participants are free to leave. Moreover, their parents are free to pull them out of the program. When you want to be a Navy Seal, you go into the whole thing knowing it is going to be hell on earth, at least until you graduate and become a Seal. Supposedly, that is what you want and you choose a program which is going to lead to that end. The Seals have this bell they can ring when they have had enough and want to leave the program. They literally go up to a bell swinging on a pole of some sort and they physically ring it after which they are out of the program. They call it "ringing the bell" and once they do so, they go back to being ordinary Navy sailors, a perfectly respectable thing to be. Once a person rings the bell, he is no longer in the Seal program. Mom and Dad can say "that's enough" and pull the kid out. The coach is not holding a gun to their head and forcing the children to stay in the program - either they or their parents want them to be there. This is why people have parents - to raise and protect them during the years before they become an adult and can make their own decisions. Let's not forget that plenty of people become anorexic entirely on their own, without any help from this coach or others like her.
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Navy Seals are not 13 years old. And sadly, it is not realistic to expect that all parents will protect their children. In the US gymnastics scandal, one of the earliest reports of Nasser's molestation was by a young (I think around 13 or 14) gymnast to her mother. The mother said she was ready to turn her car around and go report the abuse but her daughter begged her not to because she thought she might get kicked out or held back. And so the mother did not report it. How many young skaters (or gymnasts) would even tell their parents about abuse? And how many parents would do like the young gymnast's mother did and let it go because her daughter's success was more important than rocking the boat?
 
giselle23 said:
Navy Seals are not 13 years old. And sadly, it is not realistic to expect that all parents will protect their children. In the US gymnastics scandal, one of the earliest reports of Nasser's molestation was by a young (I think around 13 or 14) gymnast to her mother. The mother said she was ready to turn her car around and go report the abuse but her daughter begged her not to because she thought she might get kicked out or held back. And so the mother did not report it. How many young skaters (or gymnasts) would even tell their parents about abuse? And how many parents would do like the young gymnast's mother did and let it go because her daughter's success was more important than rocking the boat?
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Giselle, that is why we have parents. Parents are not children. They are suppose to know better. During my practice one time, I had this absolutely adorable little girl - maybe 4 or 5 years of age - cutest thing I ever saw. Her father had brought her in for vaccinations need to protect her health. The little girl started to cry when she saw the needle - broke my heart - she was so adorable. Big tears rolling down her adorable little cheeks. It broke the father's heart, too. So he gave in and allowed her to leave without getting the shots. Was this the right thing to do?

In the case you cited, I absolutely understand the child not wanting the parent to intervene. Of course, such is obvious enough. If children had enough brains to make it on their own, they would not need parents, in the first place. I do not understand a parent caving in and allowing something which is so blatantly wrong to occur because the child wants it so. The mother who did not report sexual abuse of the child is almost as guilty as the abuser. He is a complete scumbag. She is an unwitting accomplice. Now in defense of that mother, I read where numerous mothers DID report the abuse by the doctor and their reports were ignored. Apparently reporting the doctor's abuse did nothing to end the practice. The officials chose to look the other way.

When the child's success is more important to the mother than the child's own health and wellbeing - causing said parent to allow sexual abuse and starvation - we are looking at a person who should not be a mother, in the first place. Their adult judgement is impaired. This person is not competent to raise a child. Sexually abusing a child and starving child to the point of death or near death are both criminal activities. When a parent permits criminal activity in the name of success, said parent is an accomplice to a crime.
 
brennele said:
Giselle, that is why we have parents. Parents are not children. They are suppose to know better. During my practice one time, I had this absolutely adorable little girl - maybe 4 or 5 years of age - cutest thing I ever saw. Her father had brought her in for vaccinations need to protect her health. The little girl started to cry when she saw the needle - broke my heart - she was so adorable. Big tears rolling down her adorable little cheeks. It broke the father's heart, too. So he gave in and allowed her to leave without getting the shots. Was this the right thing to do?

In the case you cited, I absolutely understand the child not wanting the parent to intervene. Of course, such is obvious enough. If children had enough brains to make it on their own, they would not need parents, in the first place. I do not understand a parent caving in and allowing something which is so blatantly wrong to occur because the child wants it so. The mother who did not report sexual abuse of the child is almost as guilty as the abuser. He is a complete scumbag. She is an unwitting accomplice. Now in defense of that mother, I read where numerous mothers DID report the abuse by the doctor and their reports were ignored. Apparently reporting the doctor's abuse did nothing to end the practice. The officials chose to look the other way.

When the child's success is more important to the mother than the child's own health and wellbeing - causing said parent to allow sexual abuse and starvation - we are looking at a person who should not be a mother, in the first place. Their adult judgement is impaired. This person is not competent to raise a child. Sexually abusing a child and starving child to the point of death or near death are both criminal activities. When a parent permits criminal activity in the name of success, said parent is an accomplice to a crime.
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I don't recall reading of any case where the mothers reported the abuse but were ignored. I'm not saying some wouldn't have. I think they didn't know. Kids often keep these things to themselves--another reason why parents often cannot protect their kids.
 
Giselle, The mothers' reports were part of the whole scandal. Some of the mothers DID report the abuse and the authorities at the training camps were the girls were participating chose to ignore the complaints. This part of the events added fuel to the fire. It was well known that the doctor was abusing the girls and the general attitude was "everybody knows that is just how he is." Some of the people in authority did not think the doctor's behavior was enough reason to fire him.

I once was referred to a dentist who was a root canal specialist by my own dentist. The root canal specialist was very inappropriate and was touching me in inappropriate ways and making suggestions which were also very inappropriate. I was in no position to deal with him at the time since he was performing a root canal on me and I was given some kind of drug to help with anxiety and pain. When I recovered and went back to my own dentist, I reported the behavior to him and asked if he knew about it. He told me "everybody knows about Dr. ____ but he is the best there is in his field so we keep sending patients to him." I asked if this dentist he sent me to had ever been sued and my dentist acknowledged that he had. He also told me "One of these days he is going to lose his license if he does not knock it off." So people DO turn a blind eye to this sort of thing. My dentist also told me that I was better off being sent to him than any other dentist he could have sent me to because of the kind of work this man did. I was an adult about 37 or 38 at the time and having a lot of pain from this bad tooth which the inappropriate dentist saved. I was also scared to death and he made the procedure tolerable. In spite of his sexual abuse, he was strangely supportive and even kind. He took away your fear somehow and made you feel as though you were in good hands, ironically enough. He also told me that he could give me a drug for anxiety but if I just worked with him, I would not need it and he was correct. I just wanted it all to go away and be back to normal again ASAP - which the root canal dentist made happen. Bottom line, I agreed with my own dentist that the inappropriate sexual behavior was a small price to pay for what I wanted and got. I would not ever send a child or teenager to this dentist, however. People ignore things which should not be ignored. Look at the whole scandal involving the Penn State coach who we found out knew about the assistant coach who was molesting small boys in the locker room.
 
brennele said:
Chiquita, perhaps it does not bother the coach - esp given that Zag just won OG - but it might not have been her idea or preference in the first place. People are accusing the coach of sexualizing the young skaters but what would be her motive? Child porn is illegal and carries stiff penalties so she can't be setting her up to pose for Penthouse center folds or any such venue - profitable though they be. It is hard to believe that any adult woman thinks the costume or the routine was attractive but I suppose it is within the realm of possibilities that the coach, as well as Zag, liked the costume. Look at the outfit Kostner wore in some competition leading to the Olympics. It was so awful that one could barely look at her skate yet obviously Koster, a presumably sane person, thought the outfit was attractive. Maybe the coach does like the outfit. It is possible. It is just as possible that this woman has some insight into the teenage psyche and she is indulging Zag because the girl just won OG. Maybe the message is that when you do everything the coach tells you and you win big time, as a result, she will then cut you some slack. Who knows? The outfit was pretty awful but overall it will likely have no impact on either of their lives. Zag just won OG and will reap any benefits which come with that feat. Similarly, the coach now has even more credibility than ever. Perhaps the two of them simply have super bad taste in fashion. I think it is highly unlikely that the coach has a side business in child porn. Can't do much coaching in jail unless the Russian laws are different
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Your whole chapter doesn’t stand from the first few words. This is not a new gala routine for Zagitova so her winning the gold medal does not ponder into the equation. I don’t care about the costume in this very message. I am more into the coach-student relationship and you seem to,project your own personal experince onto elite skaters when clearly you haven’t been near some.
 
brennele said:
Giselle, The mothers' reports were part of the whole scandal. Some of the mothers DID report the abuse and the authorities at the training camps were the girls were participating chose to ignore the complaints. This part of the events added fuel to the fire. It was well known that the doctor was abusing the girls and the general attitude was "everybody knows that is just how he is." Some of the people in authority did not think the doctor's behavior was enough reason to fire him.

I once was referred to a dentist who was a root canal specialist by my own dentist. The root canal specialist was very inappropriate and was touching me in inappropriate ways and making suggestions which were also very inappropriate. I was in no position to deal with him at the time since he was performing a root canal on me and I was given some kind of drug to help with anxiety and pain. When I recovered and went back to my own dentist, I reported the behavior to him and asked if he knew about it. He told me "everybody knows about Dr. ____ but he is the best there is in his field so we keep sending patients to him." I asked if this dentist he sent me to had ever been sued and my dentist acknowledged that he had. He also told me "One of these days he is going to lose his license if he does not knock it off." So people DO turn a blind eye to this sort of thing. My dentist also told me that I was better off being sent to him than any other dentist he could have sent me to because of the kind of work this man did. I was an adult about 37 or 38 at the time and having a lot of pain from this bad tooth which the inappropriate dentist saved. I was also scared to death and he made the procedure tolerable. In spite of his sexual abuse, he was strangely supportive and even kind. He took away your fear somehow and made you feel as though you were in good hands, ironically enough. He also told me that he could give me a drug for anxiety but if I just worked with him, I would not need it and he was correct. I just wanted it all to go away and be back to normal again ASAP - which the root canal dentist made happen. Bottom line, I agreed with my own dentist that the inappropriate sexual behavior was a small price to pay for what I wanted and got. I would not ever send a child or teenager to this dentist, however. People ignore things which should not be ignored. Look at the whole scandal involving the Penn State coach who we found out knew about the assistant coach who was molesting small boys in the locker room.
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Can we go back to skating related discussions and not just sharing our own personal experience on life matters?
 
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brennele said:
When the child's success is more important to the mother than the child's own health and wellbeing - causing said parent to allow sexual abuse and starvation - we are looking at a person who should not be a mother, in the first place. Their adult judgement is impaired. This person is not competent to raise a child. Sexually abusing a child and starving child to the point of death or near death are both criminal activities. When a parent permits criminal activity in the name of success, said parent is an accomplice to a crime.
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I wonder if a child in that situation can EVER have a healthy relationship with their parents again?
 
antmanb said:
I've seen far worse things written about Sasha Cohen doing her fan spiral and i'd never advocate removing the move from skating because some pervert somewhere got a thrill out of it.

All sorts of sports and arts use tight body suits. The illusion fabric cut-outs were absolutely not a good choice, but I don't see her rolling around on the ice as particularly sexual.
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Roux said:
Absolutely, but I am concerned about the intention behind the exhibition and whose idea it was.
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^This (reply from Roux)

In one case you have a skater who is just skating and as others said, there are billions of people in this world and many of them will find something sexual about even innocuous things. A skater just skating is not even comparable to a coach intentionally dressing up a little girl in provocative clothing, and intentionally choreographing sexual poses for her to perform on the ice, trying to sell her as a Lolita. Now I saw she was on the cover of a skating magazine last month in the same outfit. They could have put any picture of her on the cover of the magazine and they pick the most controversial one................why? Go ahead and guess.

Some sick sick people in and around this sport sometimes.
 
brennele said:
Bottom line, I agreed with my own dentist that the inappropriate sexual behavior was a small price to pay for what I wanted and got.
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That sentence is really bothering me. There is no justification for the dentist's behavior, and you would have already been paying him a huge price for the procedure in dollars.

Sexual harassment scars women (and men) for life. It cannot be justified on the basis that a person performs a valuable, professional service, and is therefore entitled to get away with unacceptable, harmful and possibly illegal behavior.
 
Okay, long story short: I have never liked Eteri. At first glance, she looks like a well-dressed, classy, attractive lady, but the way she speaks gives me chills.

1) I think it's clear Eteri had SOME involvement with Yulia Lipnitskaya's eating disorder. Around 2014 Europeans, Eteri told the press that Yulia was on some kind of powdered drink to lose weight, when she was already well under 100 pounds. IMO if a coach observes this, they should stop it. And if they CONDONE this extreme dieting, then they shouldn't be allowed to coach.

2) I think she seems to care only about scores and medals. Maybe I'm wrong, but something about her just screams "Mother Gothel". She rarely shows happiness for her students when they perform well.

3) I recall an interview where she slammed her former skaters...something about Sergei Voronov being a mama's boy and Adian Pitkeev needing a girlfriend. Seems unprofessional to me to throw shade at your ex students.

As for Alina and the catsuit, I can't judge what's going on there, because I don't know who made the choice to put her in it. Personally, I think it's pretty racy for her age and I know my parents sure as heck wouldn't let me out of the house in that thing. But the same time, I don't know if Eteri is intentionally sexualizing her, so I won't accuse her of that until I have more proof on that note.

I think the previous points should be enough evidence to get her banned from coaching already...
 
In the last Patinage Magazine (french figure skating magazine), Alina is interviewed and says Eteri advised her not to eat sugar to take care of herself.
Nothing really surprising for a champion's coach, but for sure, Eteri takes part of her skaters'food ;)
 
briancoogaert said:
In the last Patinage Magazine (french figure skating magazine), Alina is interviewed and says Eteri advised her not to eat sugar to take care of herself.
Nothing really surprising for a champion's coach, but for sure, Eteri takes part of her skaters'food ;)
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I would think that many athletes limit their intake of sugar while making sure to consume an appropriate amount of complex carbohydrates and optimize the nutritional value of the often-limited calories that they consume.
 
I know nothing about this site, but I'd be really surprised if it were true. By all accounts she was upset over losing the gold, but I don't see her blaming Eteri for it. Alina won because she racked up the technical points, and Janny wasn't able to rack up quite as many, pure and simple.
 
I'd be surprised if Med left too. Leaving Eteri isn't going to make Eteri stop training the competition. If anything, leaving may make Med lose her edge. That said, maybe if she left she wouldn't be confronted with the competition every day and that could be mentally better for her for the moment.

Speaking of the above, I always get confused when there's a coaching stable with very close competitors in a discipline and one of them decides to leave because they don't like having to deal with the competition or think the coach shouldn't be coaching the competition because leaving isn't going to make the coach not coach the competition or coach them less. I do get it if they don't want to deal with that sort of competitive environment day-in/day-out when they already have enough pressure or if they feel they need a new set of eyes to reevaluate their skating if they feel like they're losing ground. However, leaving out of anger about your coach coaching the competition doesn't seem like the wisest decision.
 
I wouldn’t be surprised if Tsurskaya left though. It must be hard for her, struggling to get to her previous level, while being overtaken by Zagitova, and now all those babies will be out in another season.
 
She could change coaches, but that's not going to stop the juniors who can do pretty much everything the seniors can or the fact Russia only has 3 spots for Europeans, Worlds or the Olympics, regardless of who one's coach might be. Now, there are more shots at competing at the GPF, but I'd rather know exactly what my biggest competition is capable of doing than finding out when they :kickass: in a competition. Tsurskaya had really bad luck with the timing of her injury and illness.
 
Karina1974 said:
You must be too young to remember Kwan's Salome, which she skated at only 15. Her costume simulated a bare midriff.

https://www.google.com/search?q=mic...AhUlnuAKHUywDdYQ_AUICSgB#imgrc=_L944AbJWXza6M:
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Yeah, but bearing your midriff (something teens have been doing since the '60s both in bikinis and normal clothing) is a lot different that writhing around on the ice.

muffinplus said:
This website sounds like a lot of crap... it also says Medvedeva plans to switch countries :lol:
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To be fair, I don't trust any single source without a good reason to (especially one I don't recognize), but IIRC at the Olympics someone (I think Johnny?) hinted that she might have been considering that possibility. So I'm not wholly discounting the rumors quite yet.
 
Willin said:
To be fair, I don't trust any single source without a good reason to (especially one I don't recognize), but IIRC at the Olympics someone (I think Johnny?) hinted that she might have been considering that possibility. So I'm not wholly discounting the rumors quite yet.
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Medvedeva is very patriotic / loves competing for Russia; why would she be switching?
 
@muffinplus I have no idea. Maybe to not be in the pressure cooker that is Russian ladies' skating? Maybe because some things she's posted make her political views seem out of line of those in Russia re:LGBT rights and she wants to be able to express that? Maybe she's just looking for a change? Maybe there's something we don't know about going on in the Russian federation right now?

TBH it doesn't make much sense - not when Johnny said it and not when this mysterious article said it - so I won't believe it 'til I see it, but I'm not going to say it's 100% false.
 
rfisher said:
She could change coaches, but that's not going to stop the juniors who can do pretty much everything the seniors can or the fact Russia only has 3 spots for Europeans, Worlds or the Olympics, regardless of who one's coach might be. Now, there are more shots at competing at the GPF, but I'd rather know exactly what my biggest competition is capable of doing than finding out when they :kickass: in a competition. Tsurskaya had really bad luck with the timing of her injury and illness.
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There is the whole concept of being with a coach for the coach. When the coach is busy training nd going abroad with her best students, the others get less attention. Having a coach you is totally dedicated to you might help some skaters with the confidence factor. Performing is so much more than good techniques and training regimens.
 
brennele said:
As for the coach starving the youngster to death, the folks go into these sorts of training programs with their eyes open - or at least you hope they do. If you don't approve of this sort of practice - and I, for one, do not - then the participants are free to leave. Moreover, their parents are free to pull them out of the program.
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You're suggesting that skaters expect to have to starve, and that their parents support it. I would think most athletes are prepared to have a follow a certain diet, but certainly hope that most do not anticipate starving or living on protein drinks.

Of course, figure skaters and gymnasts are more prone to disordered eating than other athletes, for whom the aesthetics of appearance are not so important.

Some mothers of figure skaters and gymnasts, and probably dancers too, would support a starvation diet - especially if they are living vicariously through their child's accomplishment, or are hard drivers with high or unrealistic expectations of their child.

But I do hope they are in the minority and that most female skaters eat a healthy albeit controlled diet. I think this must be the case, as athletes require nourishment in order to perform.

The coach is not holding a gun to their head and forcing the children to stay in the program - either they or their parents want them to be there. This is why people have parents - to raise and protect them during the years before they become an adult and can make their own decisions. Let's not forget that plenty of people become anorexic entirely on their own, without any help from this coach or others like her.
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But when skaters reach an elite level, they and their parents have invested an awful lot in it and it can be very difficult, if not impossible, to walk away. Skaters receive funding and endorsements, and if they don't have the ability to do anything else to earn income, their options may be limited. Not all have the ability or resources needed to go back to school and pursue another profession. This is all the more true for skaters from poor countries with relatively poor families. And skaters who have had their careers supported by the state. In an interview with Shen and Zhao some time ago, they pretty much said that they felt obliged to give back to the state because it had given them everything they needed to compete for a very long time.
 
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Also, on the topic of skaters being sexualized...realistically, we could say most skaters use their physical appearances to their advantage on the ice. I have seen much more absurd things than Alina in a catsuit.
Just look at Vanessa James and Morgan Cipres. They're a team known for their hotness. They skate to the 50 Shades of Grey soundtrack. They post selfies and get dozens of comments regarding how sexy they are. You could argue that they've been objectified in the sport, even more so than Alina. Adam Rippon has an entire fan club here just to appreciate his abs, which he flaunts shamelessly on Instagram (although I by no means am asking for him to stop). Ashley Wagner did a nude photo shoot for ESPN and got PLENTY of attention from the guys. And pretty much all the ice dancers, over 18 or not, are shaking their bums in skimpy fringed dresses and deep V necks in the Latin short dances.
The truth is, figure skating has become a highly sexualized sport. I'm not going to lie and say it's the same conservative thing my mom watched as a kid. Couples are judged on their "chemistry", and couples who do non-sexual programs are often marked as "cold and distant". I remember one of the Canadian commentators called the pattern dance this season "expressing vertically what's desired horizontally" or something like that. I don't like it.

This is by NO means a defense of Eteri if she is indeed using Alina that way, but I thought I'd just leave this here.
 
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