Russian women news & updates, 2021-22 season

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That was uncalled for. The announcer could have simply said she is being coached by Eteri Tuberidze. There was no need for the soap opera. I am glad it didn't affect Alyona's performance.
Good
That was uncalled for. The announcer could have simply said she is being coached by Eteri Tuberidze. There was no need for the soap opera. I am glad it didn't affect Alyona's performance.
Could you imagine how long we would be there if coaching changes were part of every announced bio? Good gawd. I have a feeling if you left Eteri you can kiss the Oly team goodbye. She has two strong skaters who never left. And what about Liza?
 
81 (83) - 151 (153) is Tuktamsyehva's ceiling , a total of 235 max is easily beatable by Alysa, Wakaba, Kaori or You even stepsister Kromyk. Tuktamsyehva should be a last option if all others bomb or are injured, sure she beat a worn out and dethroned Kostornaya but that score is still not enough.

NOTE: The Stepsister scored 152.09 with an invalidated jump but with 2 quads.
 
81 (83) - 151 (153) is Tuktamsyehva's ceiling , a total of 235 max is easily beatable by Alysa, Wakaba, Kaori or You even stepsister Kromyk. Tuktamsyehva should be a last option if all others bomb or are injured, sure she beat a worn out and dethroned Kostornaya but that score is still not enough.

NOTE: The Stepsister scored 152.09 with an invalidated jump but with 2 quads.
Yeah, okay, except that neither Maiia nor Anna scored that high at Budapest Trophy a couple weeks ago. Tukt might have a ceiling but those girls have yet to surpass it or even come within spitting distance of it - and that includes the rest of the Russians not named Kamila or Sasha.
 
Yeah, okay, except that neither Maiia nor Anna scored that high at Budapest Trophy a couple weeks ago. Tukt might have a ceiling but those girls have yet to surpass it or even come within spitting distance of it - and that includes the rest of the Russians not named Kamila or Sasha.
but a ceiling means she cannot get higher score unless Tukt lands a quad. Stepsister2 already scored 152 with invalidated jumps and a clean Anna with just 1 quad will easily outscore that.

Take this, one mistake from Tuk and she is off the podium, easily beatable by a clean Kinira, Alysa, Wakaba, Kaori or even You.
 
but a ceiling means she cannot get higher score unless Tukt lands a quad. Stepsister2 already scored 152 with invalidated jumps and a clean Anna with just 1 quad will easily outscore that.

Take this, one mistake from Tuk and she is off the podium, easily beatable by a clean Kinira, Alysa, Wakaba, Kaori or even You.
Did you even watch Skate Canada today? Liza is scoring, consistently, in that range. Once any of those other women demonstrate they can do the same, then we can have a conversation about who is likely to beat her.
 
I really wish we could cut Kostornaia a little slack. So she made some decisions that turned out poorly. So she's struggling with her skating. So she changes her programs a lot. Guess what? She's a teenager. When I was a teenager, I barely knew which end was up, never mind having a career as a top medal-winning athlete. Nor did I have to deal with a serious disease or injuries or allegedly predatory coaches.

I love skating as much as the next person, and I'm probably guilty too sometimes, but let's try to be aware of the weight of expectation we put on these kids. Yes, some of them bear it well, but we shouldn't be so shocked and disapproving when some of them don't. They're talented and strong, but they're not superheroes or demigods. They're still kids.
 
Kostornaia is not the first skater to play musical programs during the season. We've already seen Mariah Bell dump both of her programs because they weren't working for her. Why shouldn't Alena do the same?

I hope she gets her mojo back. It might not happen this season and if Alena doesn't continue after this year, I'll be sad as her fan for what might have been. But ultimately it's her life and her skating and she doesn't owe anyone anything.
 
Kostornaia is not the first skater to play musical programs during the season. We've already seen Mariah Bell dump both of her programs because they weren't working for her. Why shouldn't Alena do the same?
Based on how the first programs were received changing the programs was the right decision. They clearly aren't ready yet, but they don't need to be.
I hope she gets her mojo back. It might not happen this season and if Alena doesn't continue after this year, I'll be sad as her fan for what might have been. But ultimately it's her life and her skating and she doesn't owe anyone anything.
I don't think she owes anything to anyone but herself. She clearly has a talent, and it would be a shame if she never got the opportunity to display that on the largest stages that the sport has to offer.
 
Mark my words if Sasha does not get 100% healthy then Maya will be the biggest threat to KV.
She is the right age when the girls at TT pop or rather explode on the scene and I expect that to happen this fall with MK. She has the quads. She has big jumps and she is fearless.

I think aliona took a step forward at Skate Canada she did well all things considered just changing both programs. I don't think she should fret too much because even if she doesn't make the Olympic teams it's not like anyone is going to beat Valieva. My thinking for the Russian ladies is don't fret too much whatever happens happens.

But in reality it doesn't look like anyone could be a serious Challenger for Kamila this season. She is putting up scores no one has ever seen before in ladies figure skating so are we making too much about who makes the Russian Olympic team because nobody's going to be able to challenge her unless it's Sasha hitting like four quads?
 
Kostornaia is not the first skater to play musical programs during the season. We've already seen Mariah Bell dump both of her programs because they weren't working for her. Why shouldn't Alena do the same?

I think changing a program is not a big deal; people are talking about it because Aljona had six programs last season and four programs this season. I don’t think anyone else has managed to have ten programs within two seasons.
 
I think changing a program is not a big deal; people are talking about it because Aljona had six programs last season and four programs this season. I don’t think anyone else has managed to have ten programs within two seasons.
Last season was odd though and she did make a coaching change. I'm willing to cut her some slack and it sounds like her programs now are what she had previously and didn't use.
 
So right now who do you guys see making the Oly team? It's going to be a bloodbath and a lot of talented girls won;t make it.
 
If I had to guess -- and I know it's foolish to guess -- I would say Kamila, Sasha, and Liza (please God) make it. I always said never count Anna out, but I'm afraid her technique is deserting her. (But I won't be sad if she proves me wrong!) I suspect Liza's 3As, her general improvement, and a wave of sentimental goodwill might be just enough to get her there. Anyway, I hope so.
 
NOTE: The Stepsister scored 152.09 with an invalidated jump but with 2 quads.
Would you please SHUT UP with the "stepsister" thing. It's dumb and offensive on all sorts of levels. The reason you are using it is to say "less favored" or "not as good", so say that instead of insinuating a step child is always less loved or worse yet in reference to the fairy tale where the full phrase was "ugly stepsisters".
 
Just want to add -- people are being so hard on Alena. But if Alena skated for, say, the US, she'd be a lock for the team. It's the fact that she skates for Russia that people are writing her off.
The fact is Russia has 7 skaters who could be on the Olympic podium. They could sweep just like they did at Worlds. Only three of them will get the chance. The other 4 could be on the Olympic podium if they skated for another country. Gubanova has the chance of being top 10, maybe top 7, at the Olympics and Worlds and wouldn't have even made Russian nationals this year. That is how insanely deep the ladies field is in Russia. And, there is a good chance at least one of the 3 making the Olympic team, won't medal at Russian nationals given the juniors who will skate senior nationals.

Barring injury/illness (pneumonia and C-19 have brought some down at the worst time) I think Trusova and Valieva will go. Anna always seems so fragile right up until she slays at nationals. Tuk starts well, but has the worst luck when it gets to nationals, Euros, Worlds and the Olympics. So, we flat out won't know until nationals is over and even then, the fed can throw in the Russian cup finals as a skate off if they deem necessary.
 
If I had to guess -- and I know it's foolish to guess -- I would say Kamila, Sasha, and Liza (please God) make it. I always said never count Anna out, but I'm afraid her technique is deserting her. (But I won't be sad if she proves me wrong!) I suspect Liza's 3As, her general improvement, and a wave of sentimental goodwill might be just enough to get her there. Anyway, I hope so.
This is what I am thinking, too. I'm still counting on Anna though, but if she's off I hope Liza gets the team. She would be so deserving of it, and so would Mishin.
 
Just want to add -- people are being so hard on Alena. But if Alena skated for, say, the US, she'd be a lock for the team. It's the fact that she skates for Russia that people are writing her off.

I agree but I also think there's a frustration because it feels like she isn't into it or isn't giving her all. I feel like she doesn't believe in herself. I'm sad for her. Her results aren't too bad and I wish she would fight more and see herself as a contender like Liza is doing. The bronze here was a good result. She can make GPF if she wins the gold in France ahead of a couple of skaters she beat at SC and Scherbakova. It's doable if Scherbakova doesn't land a quad. I want Alena to go in there with the attitude that she's gonna fight for it and can do it and will do it.
 
The fact is Russia has 7 skaters who could be on the Olympic podium. They could sweep just like they did at Worlds. Only three of them will get the chance. The other 4 could be on the Olympic podium if they skated for another country. Gubanova has the chance of being top 10, maybe top 7, at the Olympics and Worlds and wouldn't have even made Russian nationals this year. That is how insanely deep the ladies field is in Russia. And, there is a good chance at least one of the 3 making the Olympic team, won't medal at Russian nationals given the juniors who will skate senior nationals.

Barring injury I think Trusova and Valieva will go. Anna always seems so fragile right up until she slays at nationals. Tuk starts well, but has the worst luck when it gets to nationals, Euros, Worlds and the Olympics. So, we flat out won't know until nationals is over and even then, the fed can throw in the Russian cup finals as a skate off if they deem necessary.
All of this, exactly. And I think you and I have discussed previously the idea of another event like the Cup Finals if Tuktamysheva does sneak in for a top 3 eligible skater placement. I think Trusova and Valieva barring injury are in- if only one goes then it's going to take a meltdown by that one skater to probably lose the gold. Sending both will add all the drama needed for a great event. I'm not going to count Shcherbakova out yet, either, because she really seems to hit at Nationals.

RE: Kostornaia. I don't know why Alena and her less-than-favorable programs and regressing skating skills/content being pointed out is any 'harsher' than anyone has been to the handful of Russian women who have had similar fates over the last 10 years. She's a great skater and yes, she would still make Worlds in any other country but almost every woman at Nationals probably could make it to Worlds and finish in the top 15 at the worst. But in my own view, she came in at such a wonderful high level and now I get nothing out of her skating, and it seems like she's not really into it at the moment either, for whatever reason.

Alena Leonova, according to the majority of the board, skated way past her prime and should've hung up the skates much earlier than she did, but my favorite program of hers was the short she did in her final (2018-2019) season. If Kostornaia gets a spark and energy back, I'll gladly get more excited about her skating.
 
I agree but I also think there's a frustration because it feels like she isn't into it or isn't giving her all. I feel like she doesn't believe in herself. I'm sad for her. Her results aren't too bad and I wish she would fight more and see herself as a contender like Liza is doing. The bronze here was a good result. She can make GPF if she wins the gold in France ahead of a couple of skaters she beat at SC and Scherbakova. It's doable if Scherbakova doesn't land a quad. I want Alena to go in there with the attitude that she's gonna fight for it and can do it and will do it.
Not a criticism of Kostornaia, but, IMHO she has never been a fighter. She's the most emotional of the Russian skaters and always has been. That's part of her ability to express herself when skating, but if everything isn't going her way, she cries and has temper tantrums rather than digging deeper to fix the problem. This is the difference between her and Anna, Sasha, Kamilla and Tuk. It's not the coaching team or the programs. She's had 10 programs over two years. She's got to want it and right now she doesn't want it enough to do what needs to be done. I suspect this has been the biggest issue she's had at Eteri's rink. They are not coddlers, but neither is Panova, or Buyanova or Mishin. I can only imagine how she'd fare with Tsareva. She'd have the same issue if any of them coached her. I won't even go into the whole Rozanov debacle.
 
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This is what I am thinking, too. I'm still counting on Anna though, but if she's off I hope Liza gets the team. She would be so deserving of it, and so would Mishin.
Will the Sr G-P final in Osaka consist of only six Russians? Not sure if there’ll also be a 7th “Japanese host pick” in seniors as there will be in Jrs.
 
I agree but I also think there's a frustration because it feels like she isn't into it or isn't giving her all. I feel like she doesn't believe in herself. I'm sad for her. Her results aren't too bad and I wish she would fight more and see herself as a contender like Liza is doing. The bronze here was a good result. She can make GPF if she wins the gold in France ahead of a couple of skaters she beat at SC and Scherbakova. It's doable if Scherbakova doesn't land a quad. I want Alena to go in there with the attitude that she's gonna fight for it and can do it and will do it.

I think she might be one of those girls that peaked at the wrong time. Her strongest season was the 18-19 season. Then C19 hit and Alena got a very bad case. Isn't she a long hauler? Since then a lot of disruptions -- coaching changes, program changes.
 
I really wish we could cut Kostornaia a little slack. So she made some decisions that turned out poorly. So she's struggling with her skating. So she changes her programs a lot. Guess what? She's a teenager. When I was a teenager, I barely knew which end was up, never mind having a career as a top medal-winning athlete. Nor did I have to deal with a serious disease or injuries or allegedly predatory coaches.

I love skating as much as the next person, and I'm probably guilty too sometimes, but let's try to be aware of the weight of expectation we put on these kids. Yes, some of them bear it well, but we shouldn't be so shocked and disapproving when some of them don't. They're talented and strong, but they're not superheroes or demigods. They're still kids.
Seriously, and yes, even with all this, if she were in any other country, even Japan, she'd be #1.

She is earning every point she gets this year, doing it the hard way (without federation support). I respect her.

Olympic seasons are crazy in normal times, let alone during a pandemic.

It wouldn't surprise me if she ended up in the Olympics.

If everyone is healthy, I expect the team to be Kamila, Sasha and Liza, with Maia, Anna and Alena as the alternates, in that order, although how Anna stays ahead of Alena without a quad or 3a is a good question.

ETA: @rfisher I recall her crying years ago as a junior after a Grand Prix or a championship, but what is your actual evidence for these tantrums you are talking about?

I think some criticisms of her skating are valid but a lot of internet commentary on her seems to be people funneling their disappointment at her declining results through attacks on her character. It's simply wouldn't be possible to show the improvement she's shown since last season's Russian Cup and the test skates without an enormous amount of hard work.
 
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I think she might be one of those girls that peaked at the wrong time. Her strongest season was the 18-19 season. Then C19 hit and Alena got a very bad case. Isn't she a long hauler? Since then a lot of disruptions -- coaching changes, program changes.
No, she was on track to win Worlds in 2020 and broke world records in that season- that was by far her best season. But things change by the month in Russia. Look at Pogorilaya- she was on track to contend for gold at 2017 Worlds and then melted down in the free skate, dealt with injuries, showed up at one more Grand Prix the next fall, and was done for.

Kostornaia first and foremost needs to find programs that work for her, even if it means pulling back the Twilight program the CV season, and she needs to keep nailing the 3A. The programs don't even have to be packed with amazing choreography or transitions, but she does need to be able to get energized from and sell them rather than making it look like a chore IMO. If this were any other skater in Russia, the board would be claiming the skater has no chance because of the lack of a consistent Axel and no quads. People already write off Tuktamysheva's chances and she's doing much more.
 
I loved the Twilight program but I can see why she'd want to move on from that. Its kind of juniorish. The Billie Ellish program isn't a bad idea on paper. Ellish is a popular singer whose music has become familiar to people around the world. She;s just not really presenting the program well.
 
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