Russian women news & updates, 2021-22 season

[Scott512]

I didn't read Konstantinova as trying to "shield coaches from blame". She's pointing out the irony in saying that Usacheva should be expected to push herself and do 3As and quads during the Olympic season and that her coaches should also push her into doing that, but then shifting all the blame onto her coaches even though she wasn't attempting those jumps in the first place now that she's injured. You cannot have it both ways, where you are questioning why she didn't do any quads and was not pushing herself enough, and also blaming her coaches when she's injured for pushing herself. It's intended, I'm guessing, for the sports.ru troll fanbase. The translation is generally quite poor, as can be noticed in the sentence structure and unusual choice of words.

I also read quite a strange comment from Meagan Duhamel about how her throw quads weren't affected by her weight, or how men can do quads despite weighing more than women. No doubt Eteri girls have terrible technique, reliant on weight control more than anything and it should be called out, but these comments fundamentally misunderstand biophysics and provide deniability for any claims against such techniques.

It is also just true that you'll have to jump differently depending on your weight. That's just physics. You'd do it with different snap, different vault, adjust your axis, so on. It's not like there's no adjustment phase when skaters hit puberty, as is so often discussed? The problem rather is some try to actively not gain weight through disordered eating and so on, because the coaches make them do so, or they just couldn't manage to readjust their jumps.

Fair point about what Stanislava was really saying and your pertinent point about how people want it both ways against Eteri.

Dasha Mariah and Bradie and other non Ultra Si figure skaters are injured this season. Unfortunately this is the life of figure skaters.

 

[Karen-W]

Fair point about what Stanislava was really saying and your pertinent point about how people want it both ways against Eteri.

Dasha Mariah and Bradie and other non Ultra Si figure skaters are injured this season. Unfortunately this is the life of figure skaters.

Mariah isn't injured, unless you've heard/seen something the rest of us have missed. She didn't have any early Challenger assignments because she decided to get a whole new SP and go back to her Hallelujah FS, and then the USFS wound up not sending anyone to the mid-October Challengers (I can't recall whether she was originally assigned to Asian Open Trophy), so she debuted her SP at the Henderson NQS event instead. Since her GP assignments are IdF and RC back-to-back, she wasn't assigned to the November Challengers.

 

[Bulletsdad]

I didn't read Konstantinova as trying to "shield coaches from blame". She's pointing out the irony in saying that Usacheva should be expected to push herself and do 3As and quads during the Olympic season and that her coaches should also push her into doing that, but then shifting all the blame onto her coaches even though she wasn't attempting those jumps in the first place now that she's injured. You cannot have it both ways, where you are questioning why she didn't do any quads and was not pushing herself enough, and also blaming her coaches when she's injured for pushing herself. It's intended, I'm guessing, for the sports.ru troll fanbase. The translation is generally quite poor, as can be noticed in the sentence structure and unusual choice of words.

I also read quite a strange comment from Meagan Duhamel about how her throw quads weren't affected by her weight, or how men can do quads despite weighing more than women. No doubt Eteri girls have terrible technique, reliant on weight control more than anything and it should be called out, but these comments fundamentally misunderstand biophysics and provide deniability for any claims against such techniques.

It is also just true that you'll have to jump differently depending on your weight. That's just physics. You'd do it with different snap, different vault, adjust your axis, so on. It's not like there's no adjustment phase when skaters hit puberty, as is so often discussed? The problem rather is some try to actively not gain weight through disordered eating and so on, because the coaches make them do so, or they just couldn't manage to readjust their jumps.

Yes, I agree that weight affects jumps for women, especially since puberty related weight gain reduces rotational speed. Therein lies the problem with the womens' quad mania; it encourages female skaters (and their coaches) to delay/avoid puberty related weight gain. This can be achieved through calorie restriction, overtraining, eating disorders, any/all of the above.

 

[On My Own]

^But I do think women with good technique can do them. Miki Ando never rotated one, but she wasn't relying on weight control to learn one and get it all the way around either.

 

[rfisher]

Yes, I agree that weight affects jumps for women, especially since puberty related weight gain reduces rotational speed. Therein lies the problem with the womens' quad mania; it encourages female skaters (and their coaches) to delay/avoid puberty related weight gain. This can be achieved through calorie restriction, overtraining, eating disorders, any/all of the above.

Except Trusova defies that premise that they are all starving. have you seen her muscle definition? Have you seen video of her one-handed pull up? Muscles. The workout regimen of the Sambo 70 skaters is intense. Sasha's issues this year is she got taller which changes the center of balance. But, clearly she's made the adjustment per the test skate. She then had a stress fracture of her foot. They happen to a lot of high level skaters

 

[Wyliefan]

The premise is not that they are all starving. The premise is that there is a troubling pattern of pushing harmful dietary habits, often leading to disordered eating and further problems. These habits have been openly acknowledged more than once by both the coaching team and the skaters.

 

[bladesofgorey]

Except Trusova defies that premise that they are all starving. have you seen her muscle definition? Have you seen video of her one-handed pull up? Muscles. The workout regimen of the Sambo 70 skaters is intense. Sasha's issues this year is she got taller which changes the center of balance. But, clearly she's made the adjustment per the test skate. She then had a stress fracture of her foot. They happen to a lot of high level skaters

That's not how an eating disorder or intense weight control methods work SMDH
People need to not talk out their arse about illnesses like this and educate themselves instead. I am not saying that Trusova is "being starved" or has an eating disorder, I'm not privy to that. There are countless numbers of ripped, muscular athletes in all sports (both male and female) who struggled with disordered eating or clinical eating disorders when they were competing at the highest levels.
And the cutesy laugh emoji when discussing harmful disorders like this is gross.

 

[On My Own]

Except Trusova defies that premise that they are all starving. have you seen her muscle definition? Have you seen video of her one-handed pull up? Muscles. The workout regimen of the Sambo 70 skaters is intense. Sasha's issues this year is she got taller which changes the center of balance. But, clearly she's made the adjustment per the test skate. She then had a stress fracture of her foot. They happen to a lot of high level skaters

An outlier doesn't an argument make.

 

[soogar]

I also read quite a strange comment from Meagan Duhamel about how her throw quads weren't affected by her weight, or how men can do quads despite weighing more than women. No doubt Eteri girls have terrible technique, reliant on weight control more than anything and it should be called out, but these comments fundamentally misunderstand biophysics and provide deniability for any claims against such techniques.

Regarding Meagan, she always likes to brag about her throw quads and discuss how the ISU is not rewarding risk and that other pairs play it too safe. Basically she insinuates that she should have been rewarded more for her risk. At least that's how I hear it. She consistently downplays the dangers of doing quads, but there's a whole bunch of skaters getting injured. Then she complains how the ISU creates rules that don't reward risks in pairs. Personally I don't like the idea of pairs skaters pushing the technical side. I still have nightmares of what happened to Totmianina as Skate America and I don't think a pairs medal is worth that kind of risk.

She and Eric weren't that great at pairs elements. Their triple twist wasn't great and neither were their lifts. To be competitive, they had to rely on singles and throw elements. I roll my eyes at her comments because she is so desperate to insert herself as a comparison with Eteri girls, even though Eteri girls are so much better artistically and technically than Meagan ever was. You can look at her old singles footage, she was a good skater but not in their league. I also think it is an insult to other skaters as well when she pretends that body type or weight has nothing to do with being able to do quad jumps. She's never landed singles quad jumps because if she had, you would never hear the end of it.

Edited to add that whenever Meagan discusses her transformation towards becoming a Vegan, the first thing she says is that she lost weight. So obviously weight is important because she wouldn't constantly discuss it in relation to the advantages of a vegan diet.

 

[Scott512]

Mariah isn't injured, unless you've heard/seen something the rest of us have missed. She didn't have any early Challenger assignments because she decided to get a whole new SP and go back to her Hallelujah FS, and then the USFS wound up not sending anyone to the mid-October Challengers (I can't recall whether she was originally assigned to Asian Open Trophy), so she debuted her SP at the Henderson NQS event instead. Since her GP assignments are IdF and RC back-to-back, she wasn't assigned to the November Challengers.

Thanks.

Many skaters have not really gotten going yet in the Olympic season. The virus is still a stick-in-the-mud.

 

[Sylvia]

... Tursy (Elizabeta Tursynbaeva). I assume her back injury was long-lasting enough that she moved on, but does anyone know anything about what happened with Eteri's group when she had injury problems and what she's doing now??

@Kathryn2001 I posted the link to her retirement announcement in September in Tursynbaeva's fan/support thread here: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...eer-support-thread.105948/page-2#post-6064536

Mariah isn't injured, unless you've heard/seen something the rest of us have missed. She didn't have any early Challenger assignments because she decided to get a whole new SP and go back to her Hallelujah FS, and then the USFS wound up not sending anyone to the mid-October Challengers (I can't recall whether she was originally assigned to Asian Open Trophy)

Yes, she was.

Back to Russian women...

 

[soogar]

Except Trusova defies that premise that they are all starving. have you seen her muscle definition? Have you seen video of her one-handed pull up? Muscles. The workout regimen of the Sambo 70 skaters is intense. Sasha's issues this year is she got taller which changes the center of balance. But, clearly she's made the adjustment per the test skate. She then had a stress fracture of her foot. They happen to a lot of high level skaters

Trusova is really built. She's very solid looking. I don't think the other girls in the group work out with the same intensity that Sasha does. Her coaches commented that Sasha really loves to work out and do pull ups. I've never seen them skate in person but her jumps look bigger than those of the other Eteri girls. I also think her jumps got better under Plushenko.

 

[euterpe]

Trusova is really built. She's very solid looking. I don't think the other girls in the group work out with the same intensity that Sasha does. Her coaches commented that Sasha really loves to work out and do pull ups. I've never seen them skate in person but her jumps look bigger than those of the other Eteri girls. I also think her jumps got better under Plushenko.

None of the other girls (with the exception of Valieva) are as quad-driven as Sasha, so she needs to work out to maintain her edge over the others. She does have a different build, and looks different on the ice. Many of Eteri's other skaters have whip-thin bodies and big heads, but not Sasha.

And yet--despite the difference in body type and workout preferences, Sasha is injured, too.

 

[rfisher]

An outlier doesn't an argument make.

Except all the Sambo 70 skaters are in excellent physical condition

 

[rfisher]

None of the other girls (with the exception of Valieva) are as quad-driven as Sasha, so she needs to work out to maintain her edge over the others. She does have a different build, and looks different on the ice. Many of Eteri's other skaters have whip-thin bodies and big heads, but not Sasha.

And yet--despite the difference in body type and workout preferences, Sasha is injured, too.

Kwan had a stress fracture of her foot. I don't know any high level skater without injury. Or any other athlete for that matter

 

[euterpe]

Kwan also had a severe hip injury similar to Lipinski's. Tara probably got hers from repetitive practice of the 3lo-3lo. Kwan's injuries were probably due to the years of pounding on her body---she not only did the usual GP+Nationals+Worlds, but there were always 3 or more cheesefests per year plus the summer touring circuit.

The Russian skaters also have a far longer competitive season than anyone else. The Russian Cup series has them in stressful, high stakes competition throughout the season in addition to the international assignments only the best achieve. That only increases the possibility of injury.

 

[muffinplus]

An outlier doesn't an argument make.

Neither do baseless generalizations TBH. The one who is not looking too healthy is not an Eteri girl - it’s Ksenia. Though I dont’t want to judge not knowing what is happenin… but you can’t deny she loooks undeniably different from a couple of years ago

 

[On My Own]

Neither do baseless generalizations TBH.

What "baseless generalization" is in the statement "Eteri girls have terrible technique, reliant on weight control" and "The problem rather is some try to actively not gain weight through disordered eating and so on, because the coaches make them do so, or they just couldn't manage to readjust their jumps"? Please do tell, I'd love to hear.

And do tell me what kind of argument you wouldn't call "baseless" or a "generalization". Flinging that phrase around without a rebuttal doesn't make a counter-argument either. Someone taking exactly one person from Eteri's entire camp is them showing one example that can easily be considered an outlier. To wit: Trusova has the strongest technique of all of Eteri's quadsters, and she's never relied on fast rotation speed and bad take-offs as a senior like the rest of them.

Except all the Sambo 70 skaters are in excellent physical condition

Really? Daria Usacheva seems to be in excellent physical condition to you? Anna Shcherbakova was in excellent physical condition earlier this season? Lipnitskaya, Pitkeev, Medvedeva of the past ones? You think her girls are relying on correct jumping tech and not high rotation speed? Or are they magically following proper nutritional regimes and also retaining the kind of jumps they usually do (that then randomly disappear by 18)?

How many examples and interviews from Eteri students are needed to establish that there's a problem in the camp, again? Give me a number. 100? There might 100 be soon enough.

 

[muffinplus]

What "baseless generalization" is in the statement "Eteri girls have terrible technique, reliant on weight control" and "The problem rather is some try to actively not gain weight through disordered eating and so on, because the coaches make them do so, or they just couldn't manage to readjust their jumps"? Please do tell, I'd love to hear.

Because they don’t… unless you have a crystal ball and can tell us where they will end up in a few years. Except Anna has already had a bunch of body changes and still has managed to kee her jumps. And as far as I remember, I keep hearing about her losing her jumps for 3 years in a row.. so when will this happen? Kamila’s quads are big jumps and clearly are about height too.. her quad toes are. Re the rest…are you there in training sessions?

Really? Daria Usacheva seems to be in excellent physical condition to you? Anna Shcherbakova was in excellent physical condition earlier this season? Lipnitskaya, Pitkeev, Medvedeva of the past ones? You think her girls are relying on correct jumping tech and not high rotation speed? Or are they magically following proper nutritional regimes and also retaining the kind of jumps they usually do (that then randomly disappear by 18)?

How many examples and interviews from Eteri students are needed to establish that there's a problem in the camp, again? Give me a number. 100? There might 100 be soon enough.

Anna looks fine to me, (not that I know what is going on with her health because I am not there)… unless you can tell us something we don’t know? She had a broken toe that’s all…. Please don’t start posting stuff you know nothing about. Daria I don’t know about. Not about to engage in anything else with you since you are clearly a poster of a certain kind…Some Eteri skaters have certainly had issues with weight, as have other skaters undeniably. But you are really only want to see it a certain way…

 

[rfisher]

What "baseless generalization" is in the statement "Eteri girls have terrible technique, reliant on weight control" and "The problem rather is some try to actively not gain weight through disordered eating and so on, because the coaches make them do so, or they just couldn't manage to readjust their jumps"? Please do tell, I'd love to hear.

And do tell me what kind of argument you wouldn't call "baseless" or a "generalization". Flinging that phrase around without a rebuttal doesn't make a counter-argument either. Someone taking exactly one person from Eteri's entire camp is them showing one example that can easily be considered an outlier. To wit: Trusova has the strongest technique of all of Eteri's quadsters, and she's never relied on fast rotation speed and bad take-offs as a senior like the rest of them.



Really? Daria Usacheva seems to be in excellent physical condition to you? Anna Shcherbakova was in excellent physical condition earlier this season? Lipnitskaya, Pitkeev, Medvedeva of the past ones? You think her girls are relying on correct jumping tech and not high rotation speed? Or are they magically following proper nutritional regimes and also retaining the kind of jumps they usually do (that then randomly disappear by 18)?

How many examples and interviews from Eteri students are needed to establish that there's a problem in the camp, again? Give me a number. 100? There might 100 be soon enough.

Anna was sick over the summer which impacted her training. It had nothing to do with her "conditioning." People get ill. Tuk withdrew from her last event with a fever. Do you think it was because Mishin was starving her??? Daria had an injury that is not uncommon among athletes her age. In fact, a poster here on FSU discussed her skater daughter having the same issue at the same age. It has to do with the fact the bones are not completely fused until their mid 20s. Their kid wasn't being starved. Nathan Chen had a similar injury his first year in seniors. Was Raf starving him? Injuries are part of sport. It's very fashionable to bash Tutberidze so I'll just end my comments on the topic here.

 

[muffinplus]

Anna was sick over the summer which impacted her training. It had nothing to do with her "conditioning." People get ill. Tuk withdrew from her last event with a fever. Do you think it was because Mishin was starving her??? Daria had an injury that is not uncommon among athletes her age. In fact, a poster here on FSU discussed her skater daughter having the same issue at the same age. It has to do with the fact the bones are not completely fused until their mid 20s. Their kid wasn't being starved. Nathan Chen had a similar injury his first year in seniors. Was Raf starving him? Injuries are part of sport. It's very fashionable to bash Tutberidze so I'll just end my comments on the topic here.

Don't bother. It's like when someone I met at SCI was saying Kamila had horrible scratchy skating and Eteri skaters had poor/"basic" transitions (never heard that one before!)

 

[euterpe]

Nathan Chen had a similar injury his first year in seniors. Was Raf starving him? Injuries are part of sport. It's very fashionable to bash Tutberidze so I'll just end my comments on the topic here.

Nathan had Osgood-Schlatter syndrome which made his knees extremely painful. He was unable to practice the 3a, and the lutz was problematic also. Fortunately, Osgood-Schlatter is associated with growth, and once the bone ends in the knee area are finished growing, the pain goes away.

Osgood-Schatter is not part of sport. It is part of the growth cycle for those unfortunate to suffer from it.

 

[Skibean]

You really can’t compare Kwan to the Russian girls. Reports were that Kwan’s injury was a result of boot/skate changes.
And most importantly, Kwan had a longevity that these 15-18 year old girls will probably never see. Kwan’s hip injury wasn’t in her first 2-3 years of skating

Lipinski yes. She was a blip on the skating radar.

 

[Coco]

Lipinski skated at Worlds or Olympics for three consecutive seasons, so I'd hardly call that a blip.

 

[DreamSkates]

Yes, I agree that weight affects jumps for women, especially since puberty related weight gain reduces rotational speed. Therein lies the problem with the womens' quad mania; it encourages female skaters (and their coaches) to delay/avoid puberty related weight gain. This can be achieved through calorie restriction, overtraining, eating disorders, any/all of the above.

This is not new - calorie restriction, eating disorders, etc. Just more pressure to do so to keep at the top of the pile. Oh, er podium.

 

[DreamSkates]

Lipinski skated at Worlds or Olympics for three consecutive seasons, so I'd hardly call that a blip.

3? Maybe so but it felt like she was there then a pro then gone.

 

[tony]

3? Maybe so but it felt like she was there then a pro then gone.

1996 and 1997 Worlds, 1998 Olympics. Pro up until late 2002 I think, so an entire Olympic cycle plus some (mostly touring since the ISU had already pulled apart the pro scene), but she showed up to 2002 Ice Wars or whatever it was looking absolutely miserable.. it was pretty obvious her body was done.

 

[Marco]

Let's see how Anna does at her next event. She has landed exactly one quad since the season started. If she doesn't get it consistent come Nationals - who knows.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Mariah isn't injured, unless you've heard/seen something the rest of us have missed. She didn't have any early Challenger assignments because she decided to get a whole new SP and go back to her Hallelujah FS, and then the USFS wound up not sending anyone to the mid-October Challengers (I can't recall whether she was originally assigned to Asian Open Trophy), so she debuted her SP at the Henderson NQS event instead. Since her GP assignments are IdF and RC back-to-back, she wasn't assigned to the November Challengers.

She is not nearly as good as the others you mentioned

 

[love_skate2011]

Muravyeva landed her triple axel, its good jump for her with this technique, I can see a spreadeagle going to this triple axel soon.
Most People say Petrosyan reminds of Medvedeva, I dont see it, sure they are Armenian descent but Petrosyan has tiny jumps that reminds me more of Satoko and Samodurova. I still cant believe how she lands those 4T and 4F in practice.

Plushenko is slowly making homegrown stars with Muravieva, Zhilina, Zinina and Titova, Also with Davydov and his student Samodelkina.

I dont see how anyone would still complain about Tutberidze when her dominance may seem to be capped next Olympics season
she still has the Triple A, Kamila, Akatieva, Petrosyan and Alisa, who knows maybe some of her juniors will pull off a Zagitova and lands Ultra C jumps out of nowhere soon.