Russian Figure Skater tests positive for drugs - delays ceremony for team medals

[Mayra]

RUSADA does not get to do whatever they want. The ISU and IOC's authority both supersede it, and the case they brought to CAS (along with WADA) to uphold Valieva's suspension at the Olympics would have been bulletproof had it not been for the "untimely reporting" of the results, as cited by CAS in their decision. None of those entities support slap-on-the-wrist punishments for doping violations, even by minors.

I think it’s already been mentioned, and it’s possible I’m wrong, but this positive doping test does not fall under the IOC’s jurisdiction because the positive test did not happen at the Olympic Games.

It was an in competition positive test and the jurisdiction now falls under RUSADA. Due to the fact that she is a protected person, there is a lot of leeway in her punishment which as I said, can be a reprimand or a suspension length that they deem appropriate.

The only reason the IOC was involved now was because the positive test resulted during the Olympic Games and the issue of her suspension and the awarding of medals came into play.

In light of grandpa’s cup coming under suspicion as a possible contaminant, it would not be shocking to me to have RUSADA consider this an accidental contamination and give a minimal suspension length.

 

[altai_rose]

I agree with you to a certain extent here...L-Carnitine is a naturally-occurring amino acid that would correctly be categorized as a supplement. The Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition says it is a supplement taken by competitive athletes, and their research seems to indicate that it doesn't have proven long-term negative affects.

However Hypoxen is a synthetic drug. It doesn't seem to be available outside of Russia (at least not under that name), but it's advertised as a drug to increase the body's performance in extreme situations. Figure skating is not an extreme situation. It seems to be commonly used by mountain climbers to help battle hypoxia while climbing at high altitudes. It's serious for a 15-year-old girl to be routinely taking that medication, and I certainly wouldn't give it to a child or allow my child to take it.

Perhaps there should be a new category of drugs that are banned just for people under 18, so that coaches and parents who only care about athletic performance and not about long-term health can't be giving them to a child.

There are a couple of articles on google -- Hypoxene is a ubiquinone derivative, ie, another antioxidant. It is synthetic. So are most multivitamins in pills (ie, synthetic forms of natural vitamins). Sure, it's a "drug" just like L-carnitine in a pill is a "drug" (it's prescribed to mitochondria patients, synthetic forms are with tartrate or fumarate). Vitamin B1 in a pill is a "drug" (prescribed to heavy alcohol users, among others).

Furthermore, I think that classifying hypoxene and L-carnitine as "heart medications" is complete BS and just journalistic sensationalism.

I really think TMZ is the only issue here.

 

[sk9tingfan]

The latest in the NY Times:

Kamila Valieva’s Sample Included Three Substances Sometimes Used to Help the Heart. Only One Is Banned. (Published 2022)

The medications were revealed in a document filed in her arbitration hearing on Sunday.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Mayra]

Furthermore, I think that classifying hypoxene and L-carnitine as "heart medications" is complete BS and just journalistic sensationalism.

It is, but it’s also the information being fed by the Sambo-70 doctor.

Per the dossier, Kamila’s mother testified that the good Sambo doctor prescribed these medications for heart variations he found.

Name me a cardiologist or physician who would use the equivalent of a CQ10 as a front line treatment for any heart variation in a 15 year old?

These people can’t even lie well.

 

[altai_rose]

It is, but it’s also the information being fed by the Sambo-70 doctor.

Per the dossier, Kamila’s mother testified that the good Sambo doctor prescribed these medications for heart variations he found.

Name me a cardiologist or physician who would use the equivalent of a CQ10 as a front line treatment for any heart variation in a 15 year old?

These people can’t even lie well.

Agree, that's a weird testimony. I would be interested in what the doctor actually said.

Sometimes, patients tell me "this doctor told me XYZ," and I am 10000% sure that the doctor did not tell them XYZ. Basically, the patient or family just didn't understand what the doctor was saying. This actually happens rather often, unfortunately...

 

[DELTA]

I read somewhere that taking Trimetazidine and L-Carnitine together doesn't make sense. L-Carnitine is used to transport fatty acids to mitochondria. Trimetazidine on the contrary blocks them from oxidation in mitochondria.

 

[Mayra]

Agree, that's a weird testimony. I would be interested in what the doctor actually said.

Sometimes, patients tell me "this doctor told me XYZ," and I am 10000% sure that the doctor did not tell them XYZ. Basically, the patient or family just didn't understand what the doctor was saying.

Again, my body can’t stretch or twist into the pretzel shape needed to accommodate so many discrepancies and excuses in this case.

 

[altai_rose]

Again, my body can’t stretch or twist into the pretzel shape needed to accommodate so many discrepancies and excuses in this case.

Agree. But here I actually think that it's important to see what the doctor actually said. Because this discrepancy in what the family hears and what the doctor actually said is quite common.

 

[Willin]

It is, but it’s also the information being fed by the Sambo-70 doctor.

Per the dossier, Kamila’s mother testified that the good Sambo doctor prescribed these medications for heart variations he found.

Name me a cardiologist or physician who would use the equivalent of a CQ10 as a front line treatment for any heart variation in a 15 year old?

These people can’t even lie well.

The Sambo doctor isn't even a cardiologist or even IM - he's an anesthesiologist.

 

[Lanie]

If Eteri returns to Russia to a hero's welcome, and continues to abuse children - that will be even a bigger tragedy than all this.

100% my expectation and Russia gets a slap on the wrist and is able to continue to abuse and use and throw out these children and dope their athletes without a problem.

 

[Muffin]

I think it’s already been mentioned, and it’s possible I’m wrong, but this positive doping test does not fall under the IOC’s jurisdiction because the positive test did not happen at the Olympic Games.

It was an in competition positive test and the jurisdiction now falls under RUSADA. Due to the fact that she is a protected person, there is a lot of leeway in her punishment which as I said, can be a reprimand or a suspension length that they deem appropriate.

This is all factually incorrect.

First of all, jurisdiction only means they are responsible for enforcing the WADA code. If they don't enforce it, they will be overruled by CAS and Russia will likely face additional Olympic sanctions in the future.

The WADA Code can be downloaded here. Valieva violated Article 2.1 of the WADA Code, which results in immediate provisional suspension pending optional testing of a B sample. If the B sample confirms the presence of a banned substance, then the athlete undergoes a mandatory period of ineligibility of 2-4 years, depending on the circumstances. There is no exception for Protected Persons under Article 2.1. WADA said this in their statement, and it is evident if you read the Code.

Additionally, the ISU has the authority to impose bans on skaters if they determine the skater violated their own doping rules. The ISU also certifies the winners of competitions including the Olympics, and they are not going to award a medal to a skater who was ineligible. Given that the ISU was on the side of "shouldn't even skate at the event", Valieva need not clear her calendar for a medal ceremony at any point in the future.

 

[bardtoob]

Drinking grandpa's backwash during a pandemic is still endangerment of some kind

. . .

 

[Frau Muller]

Drinking grandpa's backwash during a pandemic is still endangerment of some kind

. . .

Sign me up for the new documentary, whenever it comes. The folks who brought us the recent Meddling series should already be on it. Interview grandpa! Keep Creepy Doctor in sight and film an interview.

 

[taz'smum]

Valieva's grandfather confirmed he took trimetazidine (New York Times)

So, my question still remains, was grandpa at Nationals?

 

[Meoima]

It's wrong.

Also, to be clear, I was not talking about hypoxen but about CoQ-10 which some doctors on here said hypoxen was similar to.

@whataboutism

Aw ok. Here is the latest article about the drugs

Cardiologists question the utility of the drugs found in Valieva’s blood. (Published 2022)

The Russian figure skater said she took the substances to treat a heart ailment.

www.nytimes.com

Hypoxen is sold online by Russian companies. One company selling it claims it was developed in Russia in 1976 and is sold without a prescription. The companies make extravagant claims for the drug, saying it can improve athletic performance and also help with severe injuries, burns, major surgery, blood loss, as well as asthma.
“I don’t know whether it works or doesn’t work,” Dr. Nissen said.

 

[gotoschool]

Women's figure skating is not a sport but a coronation for chosen favorites with the most political pull which has been from one team this season. The worst part is travesty of justice decision is just an extension and the most manifest example of the ongoing mockery and strong arming of judges and tech crews to prop up skaters mainly from the same coach for 8 years straight. Browbeat to succeed is the creed. What about the already forgotten presumptuous power play tech memo released just after an isolated case of somewhat fairer scoring broke out at the French Grand Prix in 2019 which immediately resulted in an even egregious degree of teflon tech immunity, even a bigger increase in GOE, and a boost in PCS and step sequences to boot. Already decided to judge for myself what performances I like best since the criteria in skating and doping are merely window dressing that prop up favorites from manily the same coach in perpetuity. The sympathy for me is for those who didn't dope and for those like Mai Mihara, Haein Lee and injured skaters like Rika Kihira who have given me inspirational performances outside the Olympics and didn't get any political pull to be there.

 

[PRlady]

The Sambo doctor isn't even a cardiologist or even IM - he's an anesthesiologist.

So was the head of NASA in Don’t Look Up and look how well that worked out.

 

[xxibjt]

Instead of punishing everyone else why not just have a medal ceremony and if she medals, leave her spot on the podium unattended?

 

[Meoima]

Instead of punishing everyone else why not just have a medal ceremony and if she medals, leave her spot on the podium unattended?

But then again the next person will move up, right?

 

[Frau Muller]

But then again the next person will move up, right?

We don’t know yet.

 

[kates8]

How long has Morisi been training with Eteri? I don't follow mens skating so much, but he seems to have come out of nowhere. Has his "stamina" improved since joining that team?

 

[clairecloutier]

An overview of the controversies around Tutberidze:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/2022/02/14/eteri-tutberidze-russian-figure-skating-doping/

This article provides a few more facts about Tutberidze's background.

For such an influential person in the sport, it is interesting how little is actually known about her.

 

[zebraswan]

How long has Morisi been training with Eteri? I don't follow mens skating so much, but he seems to have come out of nowhere. Has his "stamina" improved since joining that team?

He did not "come out of nowhere"...he skated for Russia when he was younger and switched to Georgia before Pyeongchang. He has always been extremely unstable so if Tutberidze was doping him, it didn't do much good. I really don't like the whole "guilt by association" conspiracy theories that keep popping up...from people accusing everyone in her team to every Russian skater ever. Do I believe Kamila is an isolated case, no, but until there is any more evidence to the contrary then I don't think it's cool to try to ruin anyone else's reputation.

 

[Cachoo]

.

I much prefer the Tara vs Michelle saga. I had no horse in that race.

Joanne Rochette and Kaetlyn Osmond did not even overcome me other than National support or basic empathy for Joannie's mom.

No I get the Tonya vs Nancy saga with Oksana Baiul and my current favorite skater doping.

Back to ice dance I go! Now that was simpler times.

B&K or not to B&K, V&M is the question...

Yes, I wish this was "skater A vs skater B." Now it is doping and who is clean and who is not and watching people you now believe might be cheating win medals. It has ruined this event. I'm so sorry for the girls, women and coaches who have acted within the rules. And I'm sorry for the fans. This truly sucks. I'm moving on to pairs.

 

[screech]

Based on this article, it's seeming like despite it being a requirement to attend a press conference after the final results, the IOC is not expecting Kamila to attend (she didn't attend after the SP, which is not required).
My question - if it's a requirement but she does NOT attend, as is expected, what ramifications are there? Is this another case of letting her get away with something that nobody else is allowed to get away with?

Medal winners are obliged to attend a press conference but Adams has expressed doubt over whether she will meet those requirements.

"They should make every effort and we would like them to [attend]," said Adams.

"Particularly in this case I am not sure we will be able to.

"I think it’s probably very unlikely."

 

[flyingsit]

Based on this article, it's seeming like despite it being a requirement to attend a press conference after the final results, the IOC is not expecting Kamila to attend (she didn't attend after the SP, which is not required).
My question - if it's a requirement but she does NOT attend, as is expected, what ramifications are there? Is this another case of letting her get away with something that nobody else is allowed to get away with?

So apparently 15 year olds from Russia don't have to do anything they don't want to. At this point it seems like she could do illegal elements in her program and if she was penalized, ROC would appeal and the IOC would support her.

 

[Frau Muller]

Based on this article, it's seeming like despite it being a requirement to attend a press conference after the final results, the IOC is not expecting Kamila to attend (she didn't attend after the SP, which is not required).
My question - if it's a requirement but she does NOT attend, as is expected, what ramifications are there? Is this another case of letting her get away with something that nobody else is allowed to get away with?

We don’t know the threats that she might have received. Just look at the vile and venom from the Brennans of this world.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

Based on this article, it's seeming like despite it being a requirement to attend a press conference after the final results, the IOC is not expecting Kamila to attend (she didn't attend after the SP, which is not required).
My question - if it's a requirement but she does NOT attend, as is expected, what ramifications are there? Is this another case of letting her get away with something that nobody else is allowed to get away with?

Yes, it would be allowing here to get away with something but I'm not as upset about this one as actually competing. What can she possibly be expected to say here? Her team is drugging and abusing her whether she knowingly doped or not. I don't want to add media on top of it. It goes back to questioning those least in power. Save the media shit storm for those that deserve all of it.

I also don't want yet another pity party attempt to show how badly she's been treated while ignoring the overall damage done to the sport and Olympics.

 

[Trillian]

I really don't like the whole "guilt by association" conspiracy theories that keep popping up...from people accusing everyone in her team to every Russian skater ever. Do I believe Kamila is an isolated case, no, but until there is any more evidence to the contrary then I don't think it's cool to try to ruin anyone else's reputation.

You’re not wrong here, but on the flipside, this is a perfect example of why doping is so damaging to sport as a whole. It calls the legitimacy of everything into question. In this case there are several reasonable inferences based on the facts available, history, and basic logic:
1. A child had drugs in her body that couldn’t have been there without the involvement of at least one adult.
2. The drugs much more likely came from coaches and/or doctors than a rogue family member or residue on a water glass.
3. Coaches or other sporting officials who drug one athlete rarely drug only one athlete.

It sucks to be suspicious of everyone, and maybe not everyone is guilty by association. But that’s one of the (many) reasons doping sucks and people shouldn’t do it. Talk to whoever thought it was a good idea to drug a child in the first place.

 

[screech]

Yes, it would be allowing here to get away with something but I'm not as upset about this one as actually competing. What can she possibly be expected to say here? Her team is drugging and abusing her whether she knowingly doped or not. I don't want to add media on top of it. It goes back to questioning those least in power. Save the media shit storm for those that deserve all of it.

I also don't want yet another pity party attempt to show how badly she's been treated while ignoring the overall damage done to the sport and Olympics.

I too am more upset about her competing, but there's nothing to prevent the IOC from putting limitations on what can be asked at the conference, and if a reporter asks a banned question, they are removed. Or have Kamila literally just sit there with noise cancelling headphones on, but not answer any questions.