Royalty Thread #7: Do They Get Frequent Flier Miles?

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I am watching the BBC documentary 'Diana, 7 Days' and am once again astounded and disgusted as to how the press managed to turn the peoples hatred from them for Diana's death to the Royal Family. It was perverted - clever -but perverted - of the press. Reporters deliberately asked questions that fanned the flames they wanted to throw at the Royal family at that time. The princes and their maternal family have stated that they needed to be in Balmoral to help them grieve - not in the public eye but the press weren't going to let that happen if they could somehow throw the blame elsewhere. Glad the princes are speaking out - both in their love and on-going grief for their mother as well as their obvious love and respect they have for their father and the Queen.
 
I am watching the BBC documentary 'Diana, 7 Days' and am once again astounded and disgusted as to how the press managed to turn the peoples hatred from them for Diana's death to the Royal Family. It was perverted - clever -but perverted - of the press. Reporters deliberately asked questions that fanned the flames they wanted to throw at the Royal family at that time. The princes and their maternal family have stated that they needed to be in Balmoral to help them grieve - not in the public eye but the press weren't going to let that happen if they could somehow throw the blame elsewhere. Glad the princes are speaking out - both in their love and on-going grief for their mother as well as their obvious love and respect they have for their father and the Queen.

I'm glad they are speaking out, too. I remember thinking at the time that the notion that those boys should be drug out in public for the grieving masses to observe was not just absurd but downright cruel. And the idea that by staying there with her sons in a quiet safe space, the Queen and Charles were doing some great disservice or disrespect to Diana was also absurd. For all of her faults, Diana seemed to want the best for her children and likely would not have wanted their grief paraded for the masses or to have them left alone in a time of great pain.
 
Talk about being drug out...when is the subject of Diana's death ever going to die? It's one thing to admire her & be sorry that she died. It's quite another to endlessly mourn someone you didn't know in RL & deify her. I'm expecting any day now to have sainthood conferred upon her. IMO she was a real flesh-and-blood woman...but that's just me. YMMV

The one story I'm glad about is that William & Harry have gotten some of the mental health support that they have (apparently) needed for so long. The fact that they have been so open about it is likely to help hundreds or thousands of people. Their non-profit will keep that help on-going as well as eliminating the stigma of mental health problems.
 
Talk about being drug out...when is the subject of Diana's death ever going to die? It's one thing to admire her & be sorry that she died. It's quite another to endlessly mourn someone you didn't know in RL & deify her. I'm expecting any day now to have sainthood conferred upon her. IMO she was a real flesh-and-blood woman...but that's just me. YMMV

The one story I'm glad about is that William & Harry have gotten some of the mental health support that they have (apparently) needed for so long. The fact that they have been so open about it is likely to help hundreds or thousands of people. Their non-profit will keep that help on-going as well as eliminating the stigma of mental health problems.

I seriously wonder how much of their motivation to focus on mental health issues, particularly erasing the stigma around it, is related to the fact that their mother suffered from serious mental health problems for most of her life (including the time prior to her marriage).
 
I am watching the BBC documentary 'Diana, 7 Days' and am once again astounded and disgusted as to how the press managed to turn the peoples hatred from them for Diana's death to the Royal Family. It was perverted - clever -but perverted - of the press. Reporters deliberately asked questions that fanned the flames they wanted to throw at the Royal family at that time. The princes and their maternal family have stated that they needed to be in Balmoral to help them grieve - not in the public eye but the press weren't going to let that happen if they could somehow throw the blame elsewhere. Glad the princes are speaking out - both in their love and on-going grief for their mother as well as their obvious love and respect they have for their father and the Queen.
One can tell about the press..and they are despicable. Diana did court them when it suited her.

As far as I am concerned if there is a villain in this story it is Charles.
 
One can tell about the press..and they are despicable. Diana did court them when it suited her.

As far as I am concerned if there is a villain in this story it is Charles.

Real life rarely has actual villains. The story that Diana successfully constructed had villains, but it was a carefully constructed story that was designed to have villains and make the teller look like a victim.

I find, based on reading about the royal family in reliable sources, that it was an ill-advised marriage between two dysfunctional people who were wholly incompatible. And the fact that one of them had serious mental health issues made it all the worse. And that was not Charles. He, in fact, was the more functional of the couple in mental and emotional terms.
 
IMO, the only ones who could inform Diana of what she was getting herself into would be members of the Royal Family -- who were the same people who could have squashed the whole thing if they realized that Diana wouldn't fit in well. That they didn't do so is not necessarily blameworthy ... they may not have recognized any mental health issues ... so I wouldn't call any of them "villains", but they were in the best position to minimize or prevent any problems ... possibly (but not certainly) by not giving Diana a realistic enough idea of what her life would be like once she entered the fishbowl.
 
IMO, the only ones who could inform Diana of what she was getting herself into would be members of the Royal Family -- who were the same people who could have squashed the whole thing if they realized that Diana wouldn't fit in well. That they didn't do so is not necessarily blameworthy ... they may not have recognized any mental health issues ... so I wouldn't call any of them "villains", but they were in the best position to minimize or prevent any problems ... possibly (but not certainly) by not giving Diana a realistic enough idea of what her life would be like once she entered the fishbowl.

What about her family? Were they so anxious to make a connection to the Royal Family that they didn't recognize that this was an unlikely match? Surely they were in a better position to understand her and how her life would change than the Royal Family, who live in their own bubble and barely knew her. The fact that she was sent to spend time with the Queen Mother in the weeks preceding the wedding says a lot - that was Queen training, not wife and mother training.

Or, more likely I think, did her family and everyone else think she'd be able to grow into the role, knowing that it was likely decades before her husband would become King and her role would become that much more public and full of responsibility? How was anyone to know how enraptured the public would become with her, and how easily she'd take to the more glam side of things and the charity work and thus increase her fame far faster and to a greater degree than anyone might have thought?

Maybe Charles himself thought she would grow into the role and he would grow to love her - it seemed at the time that the priority was a well-bred Englishwoman who would bear him children, not for him to find his perfect love. She was so young and perhaps too starry eyed to really get it, but I can't imagine that she didn't go into it with high hopes for a long and happy marriage either.

Sure, in hindsight it was an ill-fated match, but it's entirely possible that everyone went into it with the best intentions, and only over time did it fall apart, to the blame of no one.
 
What about her family? Were they so anxious to make a connection to the Royal Family that they didn't recognize that this was an unlikely match? Surely they were in a better position to understand her and how her life would change than the Royal Family, who live in their own bubble and barely knew her. The fact that she was sent to spend time with the Queen Mother in the weeks preceding the wedding says a lot - that was Queen training, not wife and mother training.
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I don't see how her family would be able to warn her what life would be like once she married into the Royal family. The only ones who can disclose what life is like in the Royal fishbowl are the Royals themselves. For example, even if Diana's family could have recognized the mental health issues, it would be the Royals who would be best suited to explain how Royal status would prevent any privacy if if Diana tried to get treatment.
 
I don't see how her family would be able to warn her what life would be like once she married into the Royal family. The only ones who can disclose what life is like in the Royal fishbowl are the Royals themselves. For example, even if Diana's family could have recognized the mental health issues, it would be the Royals who would be best suited to explain how Royal status would prevent any privacy if if Diana tried to get treatment.

Her maternal grandmother, Ruth Fermoy, had been a lady-in-waiting to the Queen Mother. Her father had been an equerry to King George VI. Her sister's husband was also employee of the royal family. Charles and his family made the erroneous assumption that someone from a noble family with close connections to their family would have some understanding of how things worked.

As for treatment, she was treated at various times. Early on in the marriage, Charles arranged therapists more than once. Late in the marriage, she sought out some professional help herself. However, she consistently refused to reveal her eating disorders or self harm or any such things to them which made it impossible to treat her. Late in her life, she sought help from alternative healers, hypnotists, astrologers and such. Her own family never sought treatment for her or encouraged her to seek it. In contrast, her mother placed her sister, Sarah, in residential treatment for anorexia but did not do anything to get treatment when she became aware of Diana's bulimia. And that was PRIOR to her marriage or relationship with Charles.
 
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Real life rarely has actual villains. The story that Diana successfully constructed had villains, but it was a carefully constructed story that was designed to have villains and make the teller look like a victim.

I find, based on reading about the royal family in reliable sources, that it was an ill-advised marriage between two dysfunctional people who were wholly incompatible. And the fact that one of them had serious mental health issues made it all the worse. And that was not Charles. He, in fact, was the more functional of the couple in mental and emotional terms.
Well, we have a different view of functional. He was having an affair with a married woman straight through his marriage. Ruined his entire family. And..........he is married to her now. IMO that adds insult to injury. As to the Queen's blessing......there are no words.
 
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....Or, more likely I think, did her family and everyone else think she'd be able to grow into the role, knowing that it was likely decades before her husband would become King and her role would become that much more public and full of responsibility? How was anyone to know how enraptured the public would become with her, and how easily she'd take to the more glam side of things and the charity work and thus increase her fame far faster and to a greater degree than anyone might have thought?

Maybe Charles himself thought she would grow into the role and he would grow to love her - it seemed at the time that the priority was a well-bred Englishwoman who would bear him children, not for him to find his perfect love. She was so young and perhaps too starry eyed to really get it, but I can't imagine that she didn't go into it with high hopes for a long and happy marriage either.

Sure, in hindsight it was an ill-fated match, but it's entirely possible that everyone went into it with the best intentions, and only over time did it fall apart, to the blame of no one.

ITA with this. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but no one could foresee how famous Diana would become and the pressures such scrutiny would bring on all concerned. Charles was brought up in a world where marriage and love were commonly regarded as separate entities and could be compartmentalised as such. Diana was too to a certain extent, but her parents divorce certainly coloured her own attitude to relationships and what she expected of them.

I don't see Charles as a villain in all this. I see him as a victim of his own circumstance; unable to stand up for what he really wanted, pressured to conform and succumbing to the entitlement of his upbringing when suddenly society decided that what used to be acceptable just wasn't going to cut the mustard any more. Kings and Prince's having affairs and mistresses was nothing new and often known about by the wider public. But for some reason this match was regarded as something different. People truly believed that they were witnessing a fairytale. The 70's in Great Britain weren't the best of times and their wedding in 1981 contrived to create a fantasy on which to pin all our hopes of a happy ending. Diana and Charles could never hope to live up to the impossible ideals the world expected of them.
 
Well, we have a different view of functional. He was having an affair with a married woman straight through his marriage. Ruined his entire family. And..........he is still seeing. I call that eville.

He isn't "still seeing" her - they have now been married, with the Queen's blessing, for many years and by all accounts are very happy together. She fits into his family, and his children get along with her well - you only have to see them all together in public situations to see that there is real warmth there.

I'm glad Charles finally found some happiness - his has not been an easy life.
 
He isn't "still seeing" her - they have now been married, with the Queen's blessing, for many years and by all accounts are very happy together. She fits into his family, and his children get along with her well - you only have to see them all together in public situations to see that there is real warmth there.

I'm glad Charles finally found some happiness - his has not been an easy life.
I know. They still left a horrid mess in their wake.
 
I don't see how her family would be able to warn her what life would be like once she married into the Royal family. The only ones who can disclose what life is like in the Royal fishbowl are the Royals themselves. For example, even if Diana's family could have recognized the mental health issues, it would be the Royals who would be best suited to explain how Royal status would prevent any privacy if if Diana tried to get treatment.

In addition to the connections @PDilemma lists, the Spencers are a titled family with a long history, so they have a better sense of the traditions, obligations, restrictions and challenges than most. Conversely, the Royal Family at that time was so sequestered - they probably thought that a young lady of noble breeding was the perfect candidate to groom into the position that she would eventually have as wife of the King and mother to future monarchs.

How could anyone know how popular she'd become? It was unprecedented - while she was alive she was arguably the most famous person in the world, let alone Britain - a phenomenon well beyond the usual control of the Palace. And she thrived in that role, coming into her own with her charity work, her affectionate relationship with her children and her love of the jetset lifestyle. Which, btw is something her family might have seen coming in knowing her character and charm, whereas the Royal Family likely didn't have a clue.

How could they possible prepare her for a level of celebrity no one saw coming?
 
Talk about being drug out...when is the subject of Diana's death ever going to die? It's one thing to admire her & be sorry that she died. It's quite another to endlessly mourn someone you didn't know in RL & deify her. I'm expecting any day now to have sainthood conferred upon her. IMO she was a real flesh-and-blood woman...but that's just me. YMMV

The one story I'm glad about is that William & Harry have gotten some of the mental health support that they have (apparently) needed for so long. The fact that they have been so open about it is likely to help hundreds or thousands of people. Their non-profit will keep that help on-going as well as eliminating the stigma of mental health problems.

ITA with this post. Thanks for putting it into words.

The whole Charles & Diana thing became a fiasco. Jenny you are correct - people went in with good intentions.
Charles, my understanding, was raised among adults, not much time spent with other kids, and is a product of his environment.
Charles and Camilla look like a very happy couple (IMHO). Considering all that has happened that is amazing. What would the press have done if they married back before Diana? Less newspapers would have been sold.
 
Talk about being drug out...when is the subject of Diana's death ever going to die?

Let's see. Edward VIII abdicated and married Mrs. Simpson in 1936. Diana died in 1997. 1997-1936=61. :COP:

I predict people will stop talking about her death about 61 years after they stop talking about the Duke and Duchess of Windsor. :)
 
Well, we have a different view of functional. He was having an affair with a married woman straight through his marriage. Ruined his entire family. And..........he is married to her now. IMO that adds insult to injury. As to the Queen's blessing......there are no words.

Diana had an affair with at least one married man. She had also had a long term affair in which she brought her lover to Kensington Palace in the presence of her young children.

As for functional--one person in that marriage had a nearly lifelong eating disorder, had volatile mood swings, routinely drew people close then discarded them sometimes in rages, had tantrums and crying jags on nearly a daily basis, engaged in physical self-harm, and admitted to depressive episodes and four or maybe five suicide attempts. It was not Charles.
 
And, why did the Queen give her blessing? Even if she knew nothing about Diana, she did know about Charles and Camilla.
 
And, why did the Queen give her blessing? Even if she knew nothing about Diana, she did know about Charles and Camilla.

I would think that's rather obvious. On paper, she was the perfect candidate. It took longer for them to come around to Camilla, who while perhaps not as good on paper, was the better choice in the long run and is now welcomed as a full and active member of the Royal Family.
 
I would think that's rather obvious. On paper, she was the perfect candidate. It took longer for them to come around to Camilla, who while perhaps not as good on paper, was the better choice in the long run and is now welcomed as a full and active member of the Royal Family.
That doesn't answer the question. The Queen must have known about Camilla...........even if she knew nothing of Diana.
 
And, why did the Queen give her blessing? Even if she knew nothing about Diana, she did know about Charles and Camilla.

Knew what exactly? Yes they met and had a relationship in the early 70's - but that ended after Camilla married Parker Bowles. Yes there were rumours they rekindled their relationship in the late 70's but no proof and for all we know Charles told the Queen it was over when he asked for permission to marry Lady Di as she was then. The Queen probably gave her permission based in the hope Charles would be a good husband to Lady Di - no one was to know the issues that would be brought to the union by both parties until it was too late - Charles feeling he had to get married to a 'suitable' girl and Di with the huge issues coming from her pretty messed up upbringing and family as well as her youth, inexperience and rose coloured view of love!! In hindsight the marriage should never have happened but then we wouldn't have William or Harry or George or Charlotte.
 
IMO, the only ones who could inform Diana of what she was getting herself into would be members of the Royal Family -- who were the same people who could have squashed the whole thing if they realized that Diana wouldn't fit in well. That they didn't do so is not necessarily blameworthy ... they may not have recognized any mental health issues ... so I wouldn't call any of them "villains", but they were in the best position to minimize or prevent any problems ... possibly (but not certainly) by not giving Diana a realistic enough idea of what her life would be like once she entered the fishbowl.

I am about the same age as Charles so I have been reading about him my whole adult life. Long before he met Diana he had a pretty seamy reputation of being a playboy & his affair with a married woman & a love-'em-&-leave-'em type. I remember being outraged that he was dating a viginal 19 yr old & when they got engaged I couldn't believe it. My friends & I talked about robbing the cradle. Even without the mental health problems everyone could have seen disaster coming way down the road.

ETA: I couldn't have imagined the divorce. Back then I didn't think it would be possible. But I doubted it would be a successful marriage. Talk about a mis-match.
 
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IMO, the only ones who could inform Diana of what she was getting herself into would be members of the Royal Family -- who were the same people who could have squashed the whole thing if they realized that Diana wouldn't fit in well. That they didn't do so is not necessarily blameworthy ... they may not have recognized any mental health issues ... so I wouldn't call any of them "villains", but they were in the best position to minimize or prevent any problems ... possibly (but not certainly) by not giving Diana a realistic enough idea of what her life would be like once she entered the fishbowl.
I don't know enough to know what kind of fragility Diana came into the marriage with. As to warning her, I think there was no way to warn her about the 24 hour news cycle and how that would affect the Royals.

Her husband loved someone else. That must have gutted her. And could not have done much for her self esteem. I have trouble believing that if Diana had both eating disorders and depression prior to becoming engaged that they were not discovered and analyzed by Her Majesty's people.
 
I have trouble believing that if Diana had both eating disorders and depression prior to becoming engaged that they were not discovered and analyzed by Her Majesty's people.

She had bulimia from her teenage years on. She had depressive episodes, periods of anxiety, abandonment issues and deep seated fear of rejection all before Charles was ever a part of her life. She grew up in a very messed up family with unhealthy relationships with both parents. She showed, throughout her life, symptoms of borderline personality disorder and her background made her a prime candidate for that. Again, her background prior to her marriage. A spouse's infidelity does not cause a person to become seriously mentally ill. I have known people who have had cheating spouses, they have not spiralled into the kind of behaviors Diana exhibited for most of her life. Yes, it is traumatic, but it doesn't lead a normal mentally healthy person to self-harm, eating disorders, repeated depressive episodes and rages (which did not begin with her marriage or end with the dissolution of the marriage), chronic lying (her own brother has openly said that she had a "difficult relationship with the truth" all of her life) or any of the other symptoms she had.

As for the Royal family not knowing, mental health quite simply was not on their radar. Not at all. One important thing to remember was that it was 1981, not 2017. Mental illness was not discussed openly, was stigmatized and not well understood. The advent of awareness and the reducing of stigma is a relatively new development. Diana's own children, 20 years after her death, are working to reduce the stigma around mental illness which is indicative of the fact that that stigma still exists.
 
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