Royalty Thread #11: Putting the "Fun" in Dysfunctional

[manhn]

The Kits area where Chip Wilson lives is part of my long run route. It’s beautiful. And very close to the UBC Arena, for those attending Canadians next season.

 

[jenny12]

I would hope this would be the beginning of the end to the silly notion of royalty in our society today but sadly that won’t be the case. The fact that it is 2020 and the ideas of royals and commoners still exist is just hilarious. Meghan and Harry leaving because of the racist elements of the British media as well as other reasons is understandable to say the least and they’ve abdicated their titles and public funds. Hopefully more royals will do the same. The British Royal family has been nothing more than a gigantic waste of money for some time now.

 

[becca]

To be quite honest, I believe Meghan and Harry were isolated, particularly by the Cambridges/Carole Middleton and palace courtiers via leaks to the press and some unfairness behind-the-scenes. I think the Queen and Prince Charles were fair and accepting initially, but that when the vicious leaks began to occur after the major success of the Sussexes' South Pacific tour, a number of entities within the royal family became concerned about M&H's popularity. But why so concerned? William & Kate will be King and Queen so what's the problem? Charles will be inheriting the throne when the Queen passes, so what's the problem? Why not embrace M&H and the popularity that they brought to the firm in recent years (and that Harry has always brought)?

Charles and the Cambridges are already busy copying many of the Sussexes' initiatives, ideas, and ways of interacting with the public. Charles recently became patron of a 'women's empowerment' group. That is a direct result of Meghan's influence and passion surrounding that cause. The Cambridges have been attempting to emulate the Sussexes' example all along, from the way M&H craft their Instagram to their interaction with communities around Britain in a unique, hands-on way that highlighted community projects and local businesses. It was Meghan's idea for her and Harry to visit communities around Britain in advance of their wedding, in order to learn as much as she could about her new country. Those visits were popular, well-received and very successful. There are many iconic moments from those visits, along with the invaluable way Meghan's sartorial choices helped a local business (Huit Denim) and other British manufacturers. This is down to how hands-on Meghan always is in her advance research and preparation. And now with the Cambridges recent visit to Bradford, they are clearly continuing to follow the example set by Meghan and Harry in many regards.

We learned that Meghan writes her own speeches in addition to helping Harry with his, and also being able to speak very effectively off-the-cuff. Months later in the aftermath of the faux reports of 'rifts' between Meghan and Kate, there were reports in the American press picked up from British tabloids that Kate suddenly is now 'writing her own speeches.' I mean, fine well and good, but if so, it's clearly a reaction to the fact that Meghan is so capable in that regard. It's not a competition and that's not how M&H have carried themselves. It is totally down to the Cambridges' feelings of insecurity and anxiousness regarding a popular spotlight being on the Sussexes, particularly whenever the Sussexes went on tour. Again, such a competitive, insecure reaction makes no sense to me. There's plenty more examples including the fact that Harry previously spoke up for both Camilla and Kate when they were criticized in the media. But did anyone in the royal family do the same for Harry's wife, when she was being unfairly dragged and smeared during her pregnancy? NO!

One of the royal reporters even wrote a story recently stating that Harry & Meghan need to 'dim' their light! How is that supposed to happen? M&H have done nothing but be themselves, work hard, genuinely engage with people, serve good causes, love each other, exist and breathe. But somehow the royals, palace staffers, and royal reporters couldn't wrap their heads around the existence of this couple on the royal scene. They wanted to both use and abuse M&H, but could not abide M&H objecting to vile treatment. There has been a huge campaign afoot to target and blame the Sussexes for objecting to mistreatment by speaking out and standing up for themselves. Leaks from KP are what led to the Sussexes' decision to launch their website and make their announcement in order to stay in control of the narrative. Don't mistake that bitter hardball has been played behind-the-scenes, chiefly against M&H as a result of their decision to not be maligned (even though they will be maligned anyway). The little bit of leverage M&H have attempted to use ultimately can't win out against the combined power of the monarchy and the media. That is the exact reason why Harry said to the public in his statement released last September that, "It may not look like it, but we need your support."

William has been so used to Harry the spare and the cut-up always taking the fall and being the third wheel. Behind-the-scenes, it has actually been William causing the Queen and Prince Charles the most trouble. But they both decided to let William do as he pleased, and they also decided not to speak out in support of Meghan against the media attacks. They expected her to take it and to just be grateful she married into the family, and to be happy with the perks and with the early small gestures from them. Neither the Queen nor Prince Charles have had the foresight or gumption to hold William accountable, because William is second in line to the throne, and as such, he represents the future of the monarchy. Thereby Harry and his wife are expendable. And with Meghan being 'different' she will eternally receive the bulk of the blame for the decisions the Sussexes made together. In fact, Harry has chafed under the yoke of being royal for a long time. Still, he was willing to stay and to serve out of love and loyalty to his grandmother and to his father. But they have both failed him.

What's obvious is: the Windsors will protect and preserve the British monarchy by any means necessary. Remember how George V refused to help his lookalike cousin, Tsar Nicholas of Russia during WWI! The Windsors feared that helping their Russian cousins escape from Russia might lead to a similar overthrow of the monarchy in Britain. We know the grave result of that choice by George V....

I think in family rifts it always takes two and it’s not fair to blame the Cambridge’s at the end of the day the job of the other members royal family is to support the monarch.

So if Harry was going to remain a working member of the royal family that was his eventual job to support his brother.


To compare this situation to George V letting his cousin and their kids die.

I think this is best for all involved Harry and Meghan can have their global brand if they want But not as working members of the royal family... I hope it works well for all.

 

[aftershocks]

To be honest with you this happens too many times so I have to wonder how much of a say H&M are having in these articles and their 'friends' commenting like this. The Queen is trying to give them as much as she can yet these 'friends' keep sniping and being downright nasty.

Eh, the royal courtiers and others in the royal family have been 'downright nasty' and dismissive toward Meghan and Harry for awhile. Not to mention the scathing treatment of Meghan and now Harry by the media, who were definitely given the go-ahead to attack the Sussexes. Like I said earlier, palace hardball has been played for awhile against M&H and it's only ratcheted up since M&H made the decision last September to finally speak out against the mistreatment.

The little bit of leverage the Sussexes have from their insider knowledge, their supportive friends, and public goodwill is the only thing giving them any leeway whatsoever. M&H have actually been reticent in what they have said so far. Even this speaking out by the Sussexes' friends is mild under the circumstances of the vicious maligning Meghan has been receiving in the media.

Harry went ahead and signed his name to the recent statement with William in response to the reports of William allegedly 'bullying' the Sussexes. If you will notice though, the statement did not specifically say William was not at fault. The statement Harry co-signed merely said in a vague way that in spite of denials the press continued to print false reports, and that William and Harry in light of their joint mental health advocacy decried the language used in those reports. So Harry may not necessarily agree with the term 'bullying,' but the statement he signed does not deny any possible negative behavior by William behind-the-scenes.

I have also seen online this interesting series of photos taken sometime around the Jubilee ceremonies in 2012. William appeared to forget Kate as he walked out of an enclosure carrying an umbrella. Harry called out to William and pointed a finger at Kate, as if to say, 'You forgot your wife, mate.' William then retraced his steps to help Kate and cover her with the umbrella: https://twitter.com/wkgeorgielottie/status/411854087651872768/photo/1

And this photo from July 2018 speaks volumes:

https://www.celebitchy.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/RAFANNIV_ZB6111_319527_00021.jpg

I can just imagine how Harry feels about the reports of William having had an affair/ affairs. You have only to revisit scenes of the royals at church last Easter Sunday, in the immediate aftermath of the rumbling affair gossip; William threatened to sue newspapers; and then William was thrown under the bus by a report in The Times confusingly stating that William wanted the Sussexes far away (possibly a move to Africa) in order to get them out of the limelight. That report was meant to remind William that the media has something on him. Subsequently, the original story was spun and backtracked in so many different ways that it was soon covered over and largely forgotten in the public sphere. I am wondering whether the Sussexes are being strong-armed to drop their suit against the newspapers to help avoid William possibly being exposed in court documents since he's been in bed with the media for several years now. Or maybe some kind of deal will be struck between the palace and The Mail Online to avoid William being exposed no matter how the trial proceeds. It speaks volumes that the Sussexes went outside of palace confines to obtain legal representation in their lawsuits.

William stating that he can no longer 'put his arm around his brother' is mind-boggling, tone deaf and clueless. It offers fodder for a number of joke responses, especially in light of Kate seeming to shrug off Will's embrace in a clip during their recent Mary Berry Christmas documentary. Of course, the shrugging off by Kate could mean anything and nothing. But putting that quote by William in a headline above William in a military outfit and Harry in civilian clothes is all kinds of It was Harry who graduated from Sandhurst and Harry who served his country twice in Afghanistan. And it is Harry who was moved to create the Invictus Games to help wounded military veterans and their families.

 

[mag]

they’ve abdicated their titles

They have not abdicated anything. They will simply not be using the HRH part. They will still be the Duke and Duchess of Sussex and will still be HRH it just won’t be said.
I would have a lot of respect for them if they did actually give up all their titles.

On a related note, just because they didn’t request a title for Archie doesn’t mean he can’t one day be granted one. He is the son of a royal duke so it is always a possibility however unlikely it seems now.

 

[aftershocks]

Sure @ballettmaus, in family squabbles no one is perfectly innocent, but in this case, I think Meghan and Harry have been enduring a lot behind-the-scenes and they have been taking the punches for awhile in relative silence. With the birth of their son, it's clear they decided to find a way to gain their freedom for the sake of their sanity, their love for each other, the well-being of their marriage, and for their son's future. Harry surely does not want Archie being targeted by the media and pitted against the young Cambridge kids as they grow up.

Regarding some of the comments about the Queen possibly having custody of 'grandchildren,' it is based on some ancient obscure law, which surely does not apply in any case to great-grandchildren. Nor do I think the Queen would ever invoke it for any reason:

No, the Queen Doesn't Have Legal Custody of Her Great-Grandchildren!

A 300-year rule is begging the question as to whether Queen Elizabeth technically has legal custody of her minor great-grandchildren.

people.com

In another article, it is also indicated that the Queen Mother left a larger portion of her money to Harry rather than to William since William would be inheriting more money as the future Prince of Wales, and eventual King:

Harry Inherited More Money Than William from Their Great-Grandmother

The reason is actually pretty sweet.

www.harpersbazaar.com

Another interesting fact I recently learned is that Harry suffers from dyslexia, which is in part why he struggled at Eton. I'd never heard that before:

404 - Page not found - Music News and Reviews | Contactmusic.com

404 - Page not found - Contactmusic.com is the premier destination for official music videos, music reviews | Contactmusic.com

www.contactmusic.com

 

[aftershocks]

On a related note, just because they didn’t request a title for Archie doesn’t mean he can’t one day be granted one. He is the son of a royal duke so it is always a possibility however unlikely it seems now.

Technically, sure, but I don't think there's any doubt that Archie accepting a title was ever going to happen, even if the royal family toxicity didn't manage to alienate and drive away the Sussexes. Meghan and Harry clearly wish to raise their son in a nurturing, supportive and keyword 'normal' environment as much as possible. I say 'normal,' because that's the word Harry and William both constantly used in past interviews. There's little likelihood of Archie being offered a title when Prince Charles takes the throne. When Archie grows up, I think he will have learned all about his heritage, but I doubt he will be interested in titles. As Bill Maher opined in the linked skit, royal titles in this day and age are rather archaic, snooty and somewhat isolating and constricting.

Neither brother have been all that enamored of being royal. But William is stuck as heir to the throne, and as I said in previous threads, I think William was taken over by the 'grey men' his mother so despised as soon as she was lost to her sons. William was swarmed around and protected as the 'heir to the throne,' and the future power base in the family. That's pretty obvious.

By this point, William has been catered to so much, he's never had to learn from his mistakes nor ever truly put up with being reprimanded or contradicted. Robert Jobson wrote an article in 2017 stating that it's well known behind-the-scenes that William doesn't listen to the Queen nor to his father, but he does listen to fawning, manipulative courtiers and to the Middletons. I appreciate that William fell in love with the Middletons and that he looks upon Michael Middleton as a second father and probably also views Carole Middleton as a second mother. In retrospect, it may have adversely impacted William's emotional development when his distraught mother leaned upon him so heavily amidst the sadness of her lonely marriage and her isolation inside the palace.

I've also heard that William joked (or maybe he was serious) after the birth of Archie that being an uncle is nothing new to him, since he already has a nephew (Pippa's son, Arthur). A recent photo of Arthur with his parents arriving in St. Barts for the Christmas holidays:

HELLO! — новости о звездах, светских событиях и развлечениях

Яркие выходы знаменитостей ?, звездные пары ?, подробности жизни монархов ?, эксклюзивные интервью и обзоры экспертов — все это и гораздо больше на официальном сайте журнала HELLO!

ru.hellomagazine.com

Arthur resembles the Cambridge kids a bit, unsurprisingly.

 

[aftershocks]

To compare this situation to George V letting his cousin and their kids die.

I'm not comparing the two situations. I'm simply pointing out, as a number of documentaries do, the lengths to which the British monarchy has previously gone to preserve itself. There are further suspected eye-opening and jaw-dropping examples in the 20th-century that I will refrain from citing at this juncture.

Suffice to say that the current catering to William while disrespecting the spare's bid for freedom and asserting his manhood, is par for the course.

 

[puglover]

I hope in time this move will not be attributed to royal toxicity or being bullied out - which seems to be especially offensive to both William and Harry. The issues of media spotlight seem to be very troubling to Harry and obviously Meghan has not enjoyed it at all. They want a different life for Archie. I hope, whatever is happening behind the scenes, that they can come together as brothers and friends. My husband's youngest brother, who has been troubled and was suicidal, now refuses any contact from his two brothers or two sisters. Sure - no one is perfect - perhaps things were said that shouldn't have been - but their rift is just so sad. Life is short - I hope Diana's sons can fine peace.

 

[Cachoo]

I think the media will lose interest, particularly the foreign press, and I'm guessing that Meghan & Harry do a few TV interviews for Canadian television over the next few months talking about what they want to do while in Canada, and gushing about the country & the people, and we Canadians will be satisfied and will move on to other issues. The Stanley Cup playoffs are only 3 months away.

I have a feeling they would like that very much after this year.

 

[aftershocks]

I don’t like the optics of her leaving while he works out the deal and I wonder how happy he will be.

You don't have to like the optics, especially since it was a decision clearly made by both Meghan and Harry. Methinks Harry is exceedingly happy with his wife and son. Surely another child will soon be on the way, if Meghan isn't already pregnant again, as she looked to be in that recent photo in Vancouver at the women's shelter. Harry also seemed very relaxed and playful during the recent Rugby draw at BP, surely one of his final full-time royal appearances.

Maybe adjustments will be made down the road, but it appears that M&H will continue with their current patronages and charitable enterprises, but that Harry will give up his military appointments.

Of course, future developments are unknown and will unfold as they will. I doubt any of us have the benefit of a crystal ball.

 

[jenny12]

They have not abdicated anything. They will simply not be using the HRH part. They will still be the Duke and Duchess of Sussex and will still be HRH it just won’t be said.
I would have a lot of respect for them if they did actually give up all their titles.

On a related note, just because they didn’t request a title for Archie doesn’t mean he can’t one day be granted one. He is the son of a royal duke so it is always a possibility however unlikely it seems now.

They won’t be taking public funding anymore as well as repaying some taxpayer money which is more than I can say for the other waste of space royals. I just don’t see why people should care about the impact this has on a meaningless organization like the Royal family.

 

[aftershocks]

I hope in time this move will not be attributed to royal toxicity or being bullied out - which seems to be especially offensive to both William and Harry. The issues of media spotlight seem to be very troubling to Harry and obviously Meghan has not enjoyed it at all. They want a different life for Archie. I hope, whatever is happening behind the scenes, that they can come together as brothers and friends. My husband's youngest brother, who has been troubled and was suicidal, now refuses any contact from his two brothers or two sisters. Sure - no one is perfect - perhaps things were said that shouldn't have been - but their rift is just so sad. Life is short - I hope Diana's sons can fine peace.

I respect your viewpoints. The truth behind the real rifts is definitely sad. However, it's not the 'media spotlight' that has troubled Harry and Meghan. It is the unfair media harassment and lies, chiefly against Meghan. And also the fact that whatever has gone on behind-the-scenes has been stifling and isolating for Meghan & Harry. As well, Harry has never seemingly enjoyed being royal. I believe that Harry truly loves and respects his royal grandparents and as well that he loves his father and his brother, but that it has been deeply painful for him to see how Meghan is continually mistreated and not fully supported by anyone in his family against the palace leaks and relentless attacks in the media.

Contrary to the faux and malicious references to private plane rides, Frogmore Cottage renovation expenses, British Vogue guest editorship, private christening and non-release of Archie's godparents' names, there is nothing legitimately wrong with any of what Meghan & Harry have been rampantly accused of in the media. Even the straw dog that they launched the website without the Queen knowing anything about it was chiefly disseminated in order to sway public opinion against them. The Queen already knew about the website and the plans M&H had been asked to draw up. Harry was blocked from speaking with the Queen and then someone leaked the Sussexes' written plans to The Sun. That's when Harry decided to get ahead of the leaks. If he so-called 'defied' the Queen's wishes in the process, so be it. More than likely, he was defying the courtiers who advise the Queen and Prince Charles in order to force his relatives to finally seriously negotiate his bid for freedom. Meanwhile, I don't think there's any doubt that the triggering leak to The Sun came from KP.

The fact the Sussexes live, breathe, love each other, shine brightly together, and are very personable and popular with the public, particularly during their tours is what set certain powers-that-be within the palaces against them. Even in the early going, it was apparently difficult for the Cambridges and the Middletons (and certain palace staffers) to truly welcome and embrace Meghan as Harry's wife. Harry by himself as the spare, fall guy, third wheel and cut-up was fine. It may have been inevitable that anyone Harry married would have had a hard time in this royal family, unless they were willing to sacrifice who they are in exchange for a life of royal perks, fickle mistreatment and unfailing obedience to the crown.

With Meghan being a WOC, a strong, accomplished woman and an assertive, fearless Leo, apparently all hell broke loose against her. It is definitely sad that Meghan made sacrifices to join the royal family, and that she tried very hard to fit in, while still trying to maintain her dignity and her sense of self. She accomplished a great deal in a short time, but that too was held against her. It appears that the Queen and Prince Charles did try in the beginning to carve out a Commonwealth role for Meghan & Harry. But the Sussexes' natural charm and expansive popularity on royal tours was apparently unacceptable. At least M&H still have their love for each other, their passion for helping others, and they have their son, Archie, whose well-being is a huge factor in their decision-making.

 

[aftershocks]

From The Atlantic article:

"Prince William and Prince Harry, despite their own different temperaments and approaches, are not being turned into cultural avatars in the same way."

To a degree that's true in the context of the article's focus on how women are pitted against each other. To that point, it was falsely reported that there was some kind of rift between Kate & Meghan when that was apparently never true. They may have had a slight disagreement in the lead-up to the wedding attributed to post-partum depression by Kate and wedding jitters by Meghan, whether true or not. In actuality, these ladies probably respect each other to a degree and have been cordial to each other, but have very little in common, and very different personalities. The pressures of their positions within the royal family further prevent them from bonding, as indeed does the 'rift' between the brothers, and the constant negative comparisons between K & M by the media.

As far as William and Harry though, there has been opposing depictions made between them, not so much within the larger culture, but definitely within the British royal family culture. The recent article with William in military uniform vs Harry in civilian uniform is just one coded example.

 

[missing]

Out of deference to the current situation and some reawakened curiosity, I watched a dvd of The Queen this evening. The ghost of Diana really does hang over the family. She was the lost princess in so many ways, a lost opportunity for her and the family, and then a mother lost to an already vulnerable family and nation.

What's really startling about the movie is that while Tony Blair is gone, and so is the Queen Mum, Elizabeth and Phillip and Charles are still dominating the space. The boys have grown up and married and reproduced, but really the same cast of characters is still there with little sign of letting up.

Longevity is not necessarily an asset in a royal family. Charles has had a thwarted professional life and William is likely to and if there's still a monarchy when it's George's time, he may run into the same problem.

It will be interesting to see the country's reaction when Elizabeth dies. Undoubtedly there'll be an outpouring of grief, but some of it will be on a "Margaret Are You Grieving" level. I can't imagine the country falling back in love with monarchy because of Charles. And by the time William gets the crown, his kids will be old enough to know all the problems of their peculiar life style and will probably no longer appreciate the better things about it.

I hope Harry, Meghan and Archie pull off the disappearing act. It's their best shot at happiness and I think they're smart enough and grown up enough to realize it.

 

[becca]

I don’t know. I don’t think the Queen is unhappy. As for Charles, I think Charles has found ways to do good in his role as Prince of Wales. Set up a lot of charities.

I think life is what you make of it. Good and bad of that life.

 

[puglover]

I don’t know. I don’t think the Queen is unhappy. As for Charles, I think Charles has found ways to do good in his role as Prince of Wales. Set up a lot of charities.

I think life is what you make of it. Good and bad of that life.

Interesting - all this talk about how hard it is to be the spare (no doubt) but can not have been easy to be the heir apparent into your seventies.

 

[becca]

Interesting - all this talk about how hard it is to be the spare (no doubt) but can not have been easy to be the heir apparent into your seventies.

Well yes. Not everyone lives until their 70s. Charles may never be king but he is a Dad and a Grandfather and with the woman he loves and found a way to do good with his role.

Harry got to goof off far more than William ever did.

Plus Harry got more opportunities than most of us get in their life.

I find it very unfair to say William doesn’t want his brother happy. A reporter wrote about when Harry was younger William stood up for him and said He’s just a young kid in love.

Harry managed to do good stuff with his role Invictus Games.

 

[overedge]

Interesting - all this talk about how hard it is to be the spare (no doubt) but can not have been easy to be the heir apparent into your seventies.

And to have your mom disapprove of your girlfriend for years and years.

Anyone who thinks Charles is happy in his role or in his life should read this book.

Amazon.ca

 

[aftershocks]

I don’t know. I don’t think the Queen is unhappy. As for Charles, I think Charles has found ways to do good in his role as Prince of Wales. Set up a lot of charities.

I think life is what you make of it. Good and bad of that life.

I don't think it's quite that simple when reflecting on royalty, who live to the beat of a different drummer. Charles has done a lot of good, but he has also suffered through emotional crises and personal challenges (including lack of closeness to his parents) that are somewhat out of the ordinary as a direct result of his royal status. He strikes me as generally kind and forward-thinking, but also stuffy and entitled. How could he not be? In addition, he has been described as being indecisive, which likely means he leans heavily on the advice of courtiers and mentors. His succumbing to his elders in marrying Diana, rather than having the backbone to marry Camilla greatly impacted his life and the course of the British monarchy.

QE-II was raised to believe in duty, loyalty to the crown and the dedicated carrying on of tradition. But she struggled early in her marriage when she suddenly became Queen after the premature death of her father. While Elizabeth likely initially enjoyed some of the sense of power that ascending the throne may have brought her, grief over her father's death, along with other huge sacrifices took their toll. In addition to problems in Elizabeth's marriage, and her mother's melancholy over losing her husband and her status as Queen, there were the emotional conflicts involving Margaret's desire to marry a divorced war hero. Elizabeth tried to help her sister retain her royal status and still be able to marry Peter Townsend, but ultimately Elizabeth, as a young queen, acquiesced to the demands of the old men in the British government, which led to her sister Margaret leading an unhappy, largely unfulfilled life, aside from the solace of her two children.

As depicted in The Crown, Elizabeth would have preferred to be a wife living in the British countryside raising horses and dogs. While she has raised horses and dogs as Queen, she could not devote the time she would have preferred to those singular pursuits. The Queen has also had to adjust to never showing her emotions and to dealing with palace intrigue, family squabbles, government upheaval, the vagaries of public opinion, political and domestic crises, etc. Throughout it all, her love for Prince Philip and his steadfast loyalty has seen her through (despite Philip's notoriously gruff personality and other peccadilloes). We don't know what the Queen really thinks about the current family crisis. We only know what her public statement says on the surface.

Obviously, we all face challenges in life no matter who we are. When Elizabeth was born, she was not expected to become Queen. It was her Uncle David's (Edward VIII's) abdication which changed the course of her life at a young age. Edward's abdication also haunted the royal family throughout the latter half of the 20th-century. Had Edward not abdicated, the course of British history and the British monarchy would have been drastically different. Perhaps the monarchy would have been irreparably weakened sooner with an unfit king like Edward, whereas it was strengthened and rejuvenated by QE-II inheriting the throne.

In any case, the fact that Edward abdicated is a bit more complicated than has been commonly portrayed. George V knew that his firstborn son was not fit to be king and he said as much before he died, but there wasn't anything that could be done to prevent Edward inheriting the throne. It was not just that Edward was in thrall to Wallis Simpson. Despite his general popularity with the public, he was weak, self-indulgent, self-pitying and dangerous in his political views (e.g., although his belief in Hitler was not an unusual political stance pre-WWII, it was a treasonous betrayal once negotiations between Britain's prime minister and Germany's dictator failed). Also in recent years, biographers have suggested that Wallis Simpson did not really want Edward to abdicate. It is believed that Wallis preferred the powerful status of continuing to be the King's mistress, rather than divorcing her husband in order to become the abdicated Duke of Windsor's wife. The government knew about Edward's friendly views toward Hitler, and so they were eager to use his obsession with Wallis to slyly force his abdication.

It all boils down to British royal family dysfunctions (as per the thread title) dating back from Edward VIII, to George V and Queen Mary, to Edward VII, to Queen Victoria, and further back to generations of debauched Hanovers.

 

[starrynight]

Not a huge fan of Bill Maher, but I did get a chuckle out of this.

New Rule: Your Not-So-Highness | Real Time with Bill Maher (HBO)

Subscribe to the Real Time YouTube: http://itsh.bo/10r5A1B In his first New Rule of the season, Bill calls on Prince Harry and Meghan Markle to take their pr...

youtu.be

Yes, this made me chuckle. I think it shines some light on the reality that Harry is so very very eligible and such a 'prize' to be pursued because of his money and title. Would stunning women be throwing themselves at him if he was a regular bloke? I think that he's grown up in a world where everyone (girlfriends included) have been fawning over him because of his title, status and wealth, so I expect actually being normal would be difficult for him. But if fantastically expensive houses are being purchased in Canada, I expect that not much 'normalcy' is actually going to be happening.

As for whether they care about the Royal titles, I think that royals really do care about these things, because those titles are the only thing that make them different from Joe Bloggs.

Personally, I like the role the royal family plays. But I find this whole situation amusing because Bill Maher is correct in that the Royal Family is the complete opposite of many of the things that I think Harry and Meghan might like to stand for, but yet taking the money generated by the institution (and all the British history that goes with it) doesn't seem to be an issue. After all, Meghans' financial step up from 18 months in the royal family is going to be massive.

 

[aftershocks]

Harry got to goof off far more than William ever did.

Ummm, they lost their mother at vulnerable ages. While they were born into wealth and privilege, they both suffered emotionally throughout their teens and early twenties. They both partied and got drunk and were photographed in clubs kissing girls. It's just that they have different personalities and most of William's youthful mistakes were covered up because of being heir to the throne and having a brother close enough in age who thus often shouldered the blame for wayward behavior they were equally involved in.

With Harry, generally what you see is what you get, as he tends to wear his heart on his sleeve. William is much more reserved emotionally and less easily readable. Anyway, I think it's a good thing to learn from mistakes and to be lucky enough to overcome errant ways, mature through seeking to help others, and then meet and fall in love with your soul mate.

 

[aftershocks]

Would stunning women be throwing themselves at him if he was a regular bloke?

While that might be true, I think that is better said about their father, Prince Charles, back in the 1970s.

William was very attractive in his teens and early twenties. But he's rather bald and boring now. While Harry has grown from cute to scruffy-looking, I think he's sexier than William, and also obviously more outgoing, but perhaps no less sincere and genuinely kind. Harry is definitely an alpha male, and his deep voice and engaging manner are very appealing. Behind-the-scenes, both brothers may be a bit self-indulgent and short-tempered due to their privileged upbringing. Yet I think they both surely remember and live by some of the down-to-earth lessons their mother tried to teach them, especially Harry.

Unfortunately, as I said earlier, William sadly seems to be a bit overtaken by the 'grey men,' by the media, by the restrictions of royal duty, and by the Middletons (which can be both good and bad). William also has demonstrated insecurity/annoyance in his reaction to Meghan/Harry's popularity.

Maybe the royal perks make up for the less pleasurable aspects of being royal. Diana never wanted her sons to be spoiled, but I think William has become spoiled by all the attention and the deference. Some critics think Harry has been overtaken by Meghan, but I think their love story is genuine and that they share an equal partnership, based on common goals and on mutual respect and admiration. Possibly, Meghan's strength as a woman has bolstered Harry's confidence in coming into his own as a husband and a father. He also seemed to grow in confidence as the Invictus Games has succeeded in helping so many military veterans and their families.

It appears that Harry has at least outwardly had a much harder time emotionally over the years, particularly since he was younger when Diana died. Harry is surely more than a bit spoiled too. But Harry also seems to be more demonstrably and actively socially conscious since giving back to others is how he began to heal. William probably feels similarly in terms of carrying on his mother's and his father's legacies but he's tended to be less actively engaged in substantive, hands-on high profile humanitarian projects, until the last year or two.

The Royal Foundation was initially created by W&H in 2009 largely to help raise funds for Harry's Sentebale which he founded with Prince Seeiso in 2006. Of course, Harry credits William with convincing him to undergo mental counseling to deal with his grief. And that eventually led to the brothers creating the Heads Together campaign with Kate, who coined the project's name and initiated the collaborative concept.

 

[Husky]

@aftershock
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Post #597 was a very interesting read. Long, but absolutely worth the time. A lot of things I witnessed and couldn't explain during the last weeks make sense in the light of your interpretation.

BTW I never fully understood where all these leaks came from if only the closest family member and probably their consultants were invited?

 

[skatesindreams]

They have not abdicated anything. They will simply not be using the HRH part. They will still be the Duke and Duchess of Sussex and will still be HRH it just won’t be said.
I would have a lot of respect for them if they did actually give up all their titles.

It seems a shame that they can't provide a "model"/prototype for what the slimmed-down "Firm" might become.

On a related note, just because they didn’t request a title for Archie doesn’t mean he can’t one day be granted one

King Charles may well provide family members ways to "represent" him in the future.

One of the British Royal Commentators said (on CNN) that the coverage of the Duchess of Sussex in the UK had been 72% negative. (after the wedding?)
No wonder they would feel "forced out".

 

[kittyjake5]

Harry and Meghan will now control their own lives. It is what they
wanted, and IMO they have successfully achieved a clean break to move on.

 

[skatesindreams]

I am grateful that HMQ was so supportive of Meghan.
Perhaps, that will ease some of the implied racism and attacks against her.

 

[taf2002]

Meghan's father just can't keep his mouth shut. Talk about being your own worst enemy!

Meghan and Harry are ‘cheapening’ royal family: Thomas Markle

Meghan Markle’s estranged father said the couple are destroying the monarchy and turning it into ‘a Walmart with a crown on it’.

www.scmp.com

He claims he wants a relationship again & that he wants to meet his grandchild but I don't think he will achieve anything good by this latest diatribe. I wonder how much money he was paid this time. And of course Samantha has to make some attention-getting remarks too but then I never doubted that she would stick her oar in during this latest controversy.

 

[clairecloutier]

These people seriously need to just go away. Show some decency and class, for once. I really feel bad for Meghan, having had to deal with relatives like this. I've got nothing for anyone who claims it's her fault. As a parent, surely the very least thing you can do for your adult child is not embarrass them in public. You may not like or approve of everything they do, but at the very least, keep your mouth shut and out of the news. If you can't even manage that, then all it shows is that you are jealous of their fame and trying to take some of the spotlight on them for yourself--which only reflects badly on you.

 

[Polaris]

@aftershocks LaineyGossip, is that you?

You're basically copy-posting her entire PR-mouthpiece/blog posts.