Royalty Thread #10 -Archie Phase 2 - Bold and Bald Still

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@Karen-W have you ever heard this concept that no one can truly make anyone do anything? Harry's not some helpless little pup. He's a grown man and no one can "poison" him against his relatives. If he's making those drastic decisions he would have gotten there anyway with or without Meghan.
 
No, I don't see her coming back to Britain any time soon either, and that is truly tragic. I am sure Harry knows the consequences of what he and Meghan are doing but it seems pretty clear to me that he is now estranged from his father, his brother, and his extended paternal family. I've been through the receiving end of that type of situation and it is heartbreaking - much moreso for my mother when her youngest was being poisoned against her than it was for me because my brother and I haven't ever been terribly close. I can only imagine how the family must be feeling at this time, especially William because he and Harry have always had such a close bond. That this is playing out for the entire world to see, with the media snapping pics of truly minor royals like Eugenie driving in and out of the KP grounds where she has her home, only makes the situation even harder to watch. I hope Harry can find the peace of mind and heart he desperately desires.

I am very sorry for what you have gone through, but the implication seems to be here - and forgive me if I'm misreading this - by drawing parallels with your own experience is that you believe Meghan has poisoned Harry against his family. Is that correct?
 
Interesting debate just now on BBC Newsnight. Mostly agreeing that this should now be turned into a positive exciting new phase for the royal family and that it is possible for H&M to carve out a new role abroad that supports the Queen; largely travelling throughout the Commonwealth.

Royal biographer Robert Lacey was on the panel and was actually quite reasonable until he took black singer Jamelia to task about racism claiming that Britain was much better than other places regarding racism. Jamelia hit back regarding covert racism which his straight white upper-middle class privileged male self couldn't quite comprehend.

Renowned royal historian Kate Williams said this will go down in history as a time.of seismic change for the monarchy but also as the time when Britain as a society ran the Duchess of Sussex out of the country; quite literally because Meghan has already left and flown back to Canada. Can't say I blame her either.

I'm glad to hear it's being seen as positive-- and they're trailblazing a new role with the Commonwealth. I thought that was one area of focus anyway? Canadians aren't ignorant of the Queen's influence on our lives despite her role being vastly a symbolic head of state-- she's on our money, for one daily reminder. Still, we're also not ignorant of her quite symbolic and archaic role. Sending the more modern couple out as representatives in the new Globalized world-- it would have looked very smart if they'd all announced it together, in fact. :shuffle:

There's been Canadian assumption that they'll settle somewhere in Canada based on circumstantial evidence, but I guess it's still one small but mighty argument over the US. :lol:

But one thing Canada has in common with many of those under the BRF auspices is assuming America wrote the definition of Racism, and using it to play deaf, dumb and blind.
 
Yup, it's being reported by Omid Scobie and Emily Andrews on Twitter that they left Archie in Canada and Meghan has already flown back to be with him while Harry sorts things out. (And caused the BA flight she was on to leave 30 min late.)

Kind of destroys the narrative that they just HAD to release their statement and roll out their new website yesterday to get ahead of The Sun's exclusive. If I was a British taxpayer, I would be wishing them both good riddance right now.

Excuse me! She left her baby thousands of miles away
Unconscionable. And then left Harry with all this fall out? Lovely!
I think Harry is in way over his head.
 
@Karen-W have you ever heard this concept that no one can truly make anyone do anything? Harry's not some helpless little pup. He's a grown man and no one can "poison" him against his relatives. If he's making those drastic decisions he would have gotten there anyway with or without Meghan.
I am very sorry for what you have gone through, but the implication seems to be here - and forgive me if I'm misreading this - by drawing parallels with your own experience is that you believe Meghan has poisoned Harry against his family. Is that correct?
In no way am I implying that Meghan has poisoned Harry against his family. I believe the seeds were already there for Harry to reach this point all on his own. I do think, however, that Meghan's own life experiences and personality have probably propelled Harry down this path faster and certainly far more dramatically than one would have expected or anticipated even just 2 years ago. As I stated earlier, she has forged her own path in her life and doesn't seem like the type to just take life's hits but instead chooses to change her circumstances if she is unhappy. In that sense, I think she has likely encouraged Harry to take a similar approach. The problem is and always has been, though, that what Harry really wants is to not live royal life and the plan the Sussexes laid out on their website yesterday is completely incompatible with the way the BRF not only functions but is funded and supported by the British taxpayers and government. So, of course there is now a rift. I only hope that he can someday be reconciled with his paternal family.
 
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@Karen-W have you ever heard this concept that no one can truly make anyone do anything? Harry's not some helpless little pup. He's a grown man and no one can "poison" him against his relatives. If he's making those drastic decisions he would have gotten there anyway with or without Meghan.

Strictly speaking I suppose that is true. That said, I think that both Harry and Meghan have mental health challenges. We have no idea what is actually going on, but from what has been made public the process they appear to be following is not one that comes from a calm rational place.

Calm and rational would be to return to the U.K. and sit down with Charles and have a serious talk about what is going on. Releasing this statement and all the supporting stuff on their website without working through the details is rash and self defeating. There is a lot of talk about “the men in grey suits,” but that phrase comes from 30 years ago. Charles clearly loves his sons. I find it hard to believe that if they sat down they couldn’t work it out.

One other little bit of info from twitter. Apparently Meghan met with the National Theatre in London yesterday to “discuss the year ahead.” That tweet was prior to the “stepping back tweet.”

I don’t see how they can keep their patronages if they are out marketing themselves for profit.
 
My heart goes out to this couple/family. That's all I have to say. I haven't taken a step in their shoes so I don't know the pressures. I did watch a series about Queen Elizabeth and I wouldn't want that role for all the money in the world.
 
Yup, it's being reported by Omid Scobie and Emily Andrews on Twitter that they left Archie in Canada and Meghan has already flown back to be with him while Harry sorts things out. (And caused the BA flight she was on to leave 30 min late.)

Kind of destroys the narrative that they just HAD to release their statement and roll out their new website yesterday to get ahead of The Sun's exclusive. If I was a British taxpayer, I would be wishing them both good riddance right now.

I disagree it destroys that narrative. We know The Sun had an exclusive. We know they came back dropped a bomb, no disagreement. Anything that hasn't been an official statement is still conjecture and a whole lot of "This person reports/reported directly to the Queen/Charles," vs "I spoke to a mouthy employee" etc. etc. Maybe they got word of it while in Canada, and that's why they left Archie behind. It depends on who you want to give the benefit of the doubt to. But there's enough to go around-- there just isn't one bad guy here.

I kind of hate to say it, but my first thought on hearing the "stepping back" news was that maybe they should "step back" only after they repay the cost of their home renovations and their wedding....

?????? Did you miss in this thread where the renovations to the cottage were already earmarked prior to their residence? And anything else they got was out of their own pocket? Hell, some houses over 100 years old here need special permissions just to update the furnace, wouldn't Frogmore require special handling and styling?

Cut very useful London traffic/mapping context - I'm vastly unfamiliar with London, obviously

Why on earth are we talking about a late plane, of all things? True or false, it's also 30 minutes late. Is it okay? Hell no-- if I'm on my way somewhere fun, I get unreasonably angry when someone is inconsiderate and holds us up. But I could count the number of flights I've taken that leave on time on one hand, so I'm missing the problem here. If it wasn't her, something else would have come up. If a Princess is why the plane is late, I've got a story for life. And a princess pulling a runner? :P Plus - talk about can't win with flying. She goes commercial and it's still a problem. :lol:

Such petty stuff when there's so much more interesting things we'll never know to pick apart. I'm sad if Prince Charles was not in step with his son-- not the first time, and with this track record, won't be the last. I'll give Charles the benefit of the doubt that he loves both of his sons, absolutely, but my baseless speculation is as a father would try to wait them out on this decision with delay after delay-- Phillip's health! (fair) New baby! (fair) Andrew's Scandal-- wait, what?

All this talk about H&M being impetuous is unfortunate. If the situation was growing untenable for them, then leaving now is best. Get separated, cauterize the wound and work together professionally and personally from a better place. Maybe they can be a better support for the Royal Family with that space as well. Their planning seems more thought-out than they're being given credit for. And as a tax payer, I'd want every Royal to take a more part-time approach. :P

Harry is his own man. Neither Prince married young-- Harry had his own opinions and complications before he even met her. He was also characterized as Will & Kate's third wheel for a bit there, which was fine with them at the time. It would be natural to feel Meghan specifically upset that dynamic, but it would have always been that way when Harry started his family, short of marrying Pippa, like everyone wanted for a hot second in 2011.

Sorry to make this annoyingly long, but comments about how Kate & the Middleton's endured garbage press for years-- yes, absolutely. It was bullshite then, and it's no less bullshite because the focus has moved on now. Let's stop lowering the bar on how people should be treated based on how badly the last person was treated.


Ooh, I'd start with your childish superiority and pettiness first. But that's just the compassion in me talking-- I'm sorry, you're not familiar?
 
I really hate myself for being in this thread so much. :lol:

Strictly speaking I suppose that is true. That said, I think that both Harry and Meghan have mental health challenges. We have no idea what is actually going on, but from what has been made public the process they appear to be following is not one that comes from a calm rational place.

Calm and rational would be to return to the U.K. and sit down with Charles and have a serious talk about what is going on...

If Meghan and Harry both have mental health challenges, why is it fair to keep them tethered close to the Royal Family if it's not serving either of them? If they have mental health challenges, do you truly think telling them to stop and be calm & rational is especially helpful? If we can all agree Charles loves his sons, then I'm sure long talks have happened already. It's not working for all involved. Telling two adults to just pipe down and they'll be happy is what I keep getting from all this hand-wringing over what could be a really promising venture.

At this point, I'm going to just assume the take that William's surrounded by too many yes-men courtiers with their own plans, and the reports of his ego are true. He's created a situation where his brother and family feel they can't stay, and his father+ family have a dynastic obligation to protect the heir. I don't think it's just bad and often racist press, to be frank. Actresses are built tougher than that.

So, then, what kind of calm and rational talk can they have to get through that?
 
All the news coverage.

Do you believe everything you read? How naïve!

H&M spent 6 weeks in Canada basically alone so I'm sure they hashed out what they want out of life & how to get it. Too many people are acting like all this was impulsive & not thought-out. And BTW, have you ever gone on vacation & left your kids with someone else for 3 or 4 days? Oh horrors! Lock her up!
 
If Meghan and Harry both have mental health challenges, why is it fair to keep them tethered close to the Royal Family if it's not serving either of them? If they have mental health challenges, do you truly think telling them to stop and be calm & rational is especially helpful? If we can all agree Charles loves his sons, then I'm sure long talks have happened already. It's not working for all involved. Telling two adults to just pipe down and they'll be happy is what I keep getting from all this hand-wringing over what could be a really promising venture.

I hate myself for being here too. My only excuse is I have a terrible cold and just moving off the couch is way too much effort!

Anyway, I was not suggesting that they should be told to calm down and stay tethered. That never works. My point was that the way it has unfolded shows a fairly high level of disfunction. Now we all know, given how the Charles and Diana relationship came un done (not to mention all the drama with Diana’s parents and her brother) that disfunction is pretty much the middle name of the Windsors and Spencers. Clearly the disfunction is alive and well in the next generation as well. Leaving Archie in Canada, while not a problem for him, seems hard on his grandfather and great grand parents who might have wanted to see him again. Babies change a lot in 6 weeks and Royal schedules are clad in steel well in advance. The Queen and Prince Phillip no longer travel so they won’t see him again until Harry and Meghan return, if ever really. The same may be for Charles depending on his schedule.

As for it being a promising venture, I really hope you are right. I can’t see it, but then I have been wrong before and likely will be wrong again. If Trudeau tries to float the idea that Canadians pay for their security while they are here we will be back in an election in a flash.

At this point, I'm going to just assume the take that William's surrounded by too many yes-men courtiers with their own plans, and the reports of his ego are true. He's created a situation where his brother and family feel they can't stay, and his father+ family have a dynastic obligation to protect the heir. I don't think it's just bad and often racist press, to be frank. Actresses are built tougher than that.

Now with respect to this, if you are going to believe these rumours about William’s behaviour, then it would be consistent to believe the similar negative rumours about Meghan’s behavior. As far as I can see, both are just rumours that should be taken with a large grain of salt.
 
I really hate myself for being in this thread so much. :lol:



If Meghan and Harry both have mental health challenges, why is it fair to keep them tethered close to the Royal Family if it's not serving either of them? If they have mental health challenges, do you truly think telling them to stop and be calm & rational is especially helpful? If we can all agree Charles loves his sons, then I'm sure long talks have happened already. It's not working for all involved. Telling two adults to just pipe down and they'll be happy is what I keep getting from all this hand-wringing over what could be a really promising venture.

At this point, I'm going to just assume the take that William's surrounded by too many yes-men courtiers with their own plans, and the reports of his ego are true. He's created a situation where his brother and family feel they can't stay, and his father+ family have a dynastic obligation to protect the heir. I don't think it's just bad and often racist press, to be frank. Actresses are built tougher than that.

So, then, what kind of calm and rational talk can they have to get through that?

I don’t like speculating that folks have mental health issues.
I am also not sure why William gets blamed for this. He is the heir.

He has it seems to me quietly done his duty his whole life.

Someone pointed out well that support doesn’t go two ways. For example one can point that Harry’s 99 year old Grandfather was just out of the hospital and his Grandmother is frail too. He could have made his announcement another way.
 
Well the announcement probably had to be made quickly because apparently the decision to leave Britain was already made by HM. Meghan has already left.
 
I'd think a manipulative person would try to manipulate more of the spotlight for herself and her branch of the family, not less. But who knows.

Hasn't Harry frequently expressed a desire to break away from the rigors & limitations of Royal life, long before meeting Megan?

Didn't he once express a wish to the Queen for a DNA test to determine if Charles really is his father?

If any of that is true, then maybe Megan looked, in part, like an easy way out of his Royal life.

Anyway, the jewelry is to die for. :)
 
I hate myself for being here too. My only excuse is I have a terrible cold and just moving off the couch is way too much effort!

Anyway, I was not suggesting that they should be told to calm down and stay tethered. That never works. My point was that the way it has unfolded shows a fairly high level of disfunction. Now we all know, given how the Charles and Diana relationship came un done (not to mention all the drama with Diana’s parents and her brother) that disfunction is pretty much the middle name of the Windsors and Spencers. Clearly the disfunction is alive and well in the next generation as well. Leaving Archie in Canada, while not a problem for him, seems hard on his grandfather and great grand parents who might have wanted to see him again. Babies change a lot in 6 weeks and Royal schedules are clad in steel well in advance. The Queen and Prince Phillip no longer travel so they won’t see him again until Harry and Meghan return, if ever really. The same may be for Charles depending on his schedule.

I don't disagree-- I'm as surprised as anyone here. So far it's just a bad situation that everyone keeps making worse, like the decision for her to return quickly being pre-planned. I've just heard a lot about travelling with babies/kids these last few years, so I'm hesitant to take umbrage yet. Flying is exciting and stressful on my own or in a pair-- I can't imagine a commercial flight with an infant.


As for it being a promising venture, I really hope you are right. I can’t see it, but then I have been wrong before and likely will be wrong again. If Trudeau tries to float the idea that Canadians pay for their security while they are here we will be back in an election in a flash.

Now with respect to this, if you are going to believe these rumours about William’s behaviour, then it would be consistent to believe the similar negative rumours about Meghan’s behavior. As far as I can see, both are just rumours that should be taken with a large grain of salt.

We'll see how long Trudeau keeps the beard around in an attempt to soften the blow. :P

Gossip is pick & play-- we get to believe what we want. If others are going to believe a whole lot of stories I can't keep straight about Meghan, then they would be consistent to believe it about William as well. And it's absolutely best to take it all with a grain of salt. I get the feeling, with how fast this is moving, we may hear more about what's actually going on, but if we don't, it doesn't matter. The situation was no longer working, and it was pushed a bit further along. Once people can if people can move past indignation, that is. I can't relate, living in the icy Commonwealth, but I can understand the reaction if you're on the less welcoming end of the news.
 
Whenever someone famous leaves their original country for Canada, all hell breaks loose. Maybe William can get an interview with Ted Barton.

As a neutral party to the Monarchy and a hater of Suits, I would LOVE Harry and Meghan to move to Canada!
 
I have just remembered this. Someone somewhere who recently met Kate mentioned that she said her kids were hoping to see more of Archie in the new year. Maybe it was during the Christmas morning walk about? That part does make me sad. For royal kids, cousins are so important. Hopefully H & M spend enough time in the U.K. that Archie gets to know his cousins really well.

“As a neutral party to the Monarchy and a hater of Suits, I would LOVE Harry and Meghan to move to Canada!”

I am good with it as long as Canadian taxpayers are not on the hook for one dime of their security or upkeep costs. We have too many people living below the poverty line, too many social programs that need funding. H&M are welcome, but on their own dime.
 
The time is ripe for a new thread. The only nominators appear to be @Zemgirl and me. :shuffle:

Nominated by Vagabond:

"Stepping Back"
"Things Are Getting Harry"
"A Harry Escape"
"Nothing Succeeds Like Sussex"'
"'I'm a Minor Royal, Get Me Out of Here!"
"Kind Hearts and Coronets"
"Putting the 'Fun' in Dysfunctional"
"Running Away from Home with Lots of Baggage"
"The Married Lives of Windsor"

Nominated by Zemgirl:

The Break-up
Harry and Meghan's Great British Spinoff.
I'll show myself out.

I don't think Zemgirl meant to nominate that last one, but it seems at least as appropriate as any of the others, so it stays.

ETA: And, quasi-nominated by @allezfred:

#megxit

If no one else starts a new one in the next twelve hours or so, I will do so based on a popular vote. After all, what is a royalty thread for, if not democracy? :p
 
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Well the announcement probably had to be made quickly because apparently the decision to leave Britain was already made by HM. Meghan has already left.
Nope. Had they any respect for the Queen and Prince they could have been decent and waited.
 
?????? Did you miss in this thread where the renovations to the cottage were already earmarked prior to their residence? And anything else they got was out of their own pocket? Hell, some houses over 100 years old here need special permissions just to update the furnace, wouldn't Frogmore require special handling and styling?

I don't doubt that the house already was in line for renovations, and that being a heritage house (for lack of a better term) it would have required extra attention, and probably permissions, for renovations. And I do know that H&M paid for "extras" above and beyond that. However, I would guess that because members of the royal family were going to live there, there were also additions for security and privacy that wouldn't have been needed if non-royals were moving in.

If H&M have already paid for their share of the renovations, good for them. But if there are costs that were covered by the taxpayers because they are royals, then those are what I was thinking of when I suggested they should cover those costs before "stepping away". Ditto with any similar costs for the wedding.
 
The time is ripe for a new thread. The only nominators appear to be @Zemgirl and me. :shuffle:

Nominated by Vagabond:

"Stepping Back"
"Things Are Getting Harry"
"A Harry Escape"
"Nothing Succeeds Like Sussex"'
"'I'm a Minor Royal, Get Me Out of Here!"
"Kind Hearts and Coronets"
"Putting the 'Fun' in Dysfunctional"
"Running Away from Home with Lots of Baggage"
"The Married Lives of Windsor"

Nominated by Zemgirl:

The Break-up
Harry and Meghan's Great British Spinoff.
I'll show myself out.

I don't think Zemgirl meant to nominate that last one, but it seems at least as appropriate as any of the others, so it stays.

If no one else starts a new one in the next twelve hours or so, I will do so based on a popular vote. After all, what is a royalty thread for, if not democracy? :p
What about Mexit? Or Harmegxit?

ETA: seems Canbelto and I are thinking alongside the same lines.
 
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