Royalty Thread #10 -Archie Phase 2 - Bold and Bald Still

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Good for them. They've made great contacts through different tours, friends, etc. Hell, Oprah was at their wedding-- maybe the Duchess winds up with her own (very high-brow, obvs) show on OWN. The world's their oyster, and monarchies continue to be a supremely dated post as the world evolves.

Who knows what life is actually like for all of them inside the palace walls? It's not too off-base to consider they've received bad treatment from family and the inner-circle, considering Princess Michael of Kent's racist broach a couple of years ago. I doubt it has much to do with Kate and Megan, either. I still feel they've been used as distraction and sacrificed to keep attention off of other scandals, such as William's rumoured affair (which I believe), and Prince Andrew before the interview. I'm not sure how I'd feel about his protection from the Queen, while H&M are left to fry for... I'm not even sure for what. All of it seems petty and garbage, so I assume the biggest sins of the Sussex's are being biracial, American, and willing to evolve with the times.

I've assumed at least Charles would be support for them, you know, as a father, so I'm sorry to hear that's not the case. Might as well seek refuge under the protection of Beyonce instead anyways. :P
 
I am happy for them. Honestly it must be horrible ... the press there have picked on them non-stop to sell their rags. I wish them happiness.
 
It isn't surprising at all that she wanted to move back to Canada. I'm waiting for the announcement of the Good Morning with Meghan and Harry show. Disaster. She's a former actress. Even Princess Grace missed the business and considered going back to acting briefly. How else would they find the financial independence they are looking for? What other marketable skills are they hiding?

The timing is so close to moving into a grace and favor mansion. That is off putting; it seems ungrateful.

Will 2021 will be the divorce year? You can ditch out and do your own thing for only so long. If m. wants everything to be different than she doesn't want to be royal (who are we kidding) or British or live in England. It's just a hop, skip, and a jump to be being single again. I wish the best for Harry. I hope he finds good counsel, and mental health counselling if that is what the case is. Hopefully Harry's second wife will be less overwhelmed by all the cultural differences and trappings of royalty and intense media focus.

I hope William and Kate and the fragile looking 93-year old Queen Queen's reaction (from Marie Claire magazine)are not overly burdened with this current drama.
 
Wow @Glide2 what a harsh judgmental statement. Have you ever considered that maybe Harry wants this too? That he's struggling from some issues that he's been open about and it's not all Meghan's fault? You're just racist.
 
attyfan said:
At worst, Harry and Meghan are not handling matters wisely
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^^ The article you cite is not an official statement by the Queen though. We don't really know exactly how she feels.

The royal family is surrounded by royal staffers, many of whom are jockeying for position as the family is undergoing a steep transitional phase which will inevitably culminate in the Queen's eventual passing, which I am sure no one is looking forward to. She is the only British monarch to have reigned for over 67 years, which is remarkable. I posted an earlier video clip of the Queen speaking many years ago in her own words about what matters most to her: duty, tradition, family and her love of animals. As I've said before, the Queen has always ruled with a light touch, and with apparent reluctance to become embroiled in family conflicts. She expects everyone to buck up, and she makes symbolic public gestures, often in order to smooth ruffled feathers within the family. She surely wants everyone to get along. But let's face it that she's in her mid-nineties and some of the ancient, old-fashioned ways of doing things are no longer working.

There's always been an uneasy relationship between the royals and the media, and historically the royals have not navigated that relationship very successfully. Instead of always being behind the curve and having to react to changes, this family needed to be ahead of the curve when Meghan entered the family, particularly in light of her unique heritage and the ugly, hidden biases among the public and the press that came to the fore. The royals should not have been surprised by the negativity. They sat back largely silently allowing a new member of the family to be cruelly mischaracterized, hounded, and dragged. What makes this worse is that a lot of the negativity was fueled by palace leaks immediately after the Sussexes' extremely successful South Pacific tour. It's inexcusable by itself, but the fact that Meghan was pregnant during this time and that none of the negativity lessened but only increased, is unconscionable.

It's so easy apparently for some observers in this thread to continue the media's go-to narrative that somehow M&H are not making good decisions, or that Harry is mentally unstable, or that it's M&H's fault they are being dragged by the tabloid press and that they should sit back, shut up and take it. Well, none of us are in the royal family and none of us are actually facing what M&H have been enduring. It's a sad shame to see all the good this couple have done, juxtaposed by all the haters, kool-aid drinkers and royal leeches relentlessly criticizing their every word and action. Anything they do will be criticized by some people so they are smart in understanding the necessity to do what's right to not only survive, but to thrive as a couple, as individuals, and as a family. Go back and take a look at their engagement interview. They told us then exactly who they are, what they are passionate about, and what their intentions are. As they said, "we will work together as a team in support of the causes we are passionate about," and always "put our relationship first."

And yet, the Sussexes continue to surprise us with their generous humanity, their bravery, and their unexpected willingness to pay the price to do what they feel is right in order to simultaneously be at peace in their own lives, while uplifting others.

I'll bet that any woman who has knowingly and bitterly suffered in silence under antiquated and largely unspoken royal hegemony, ultimately succumbing to paying a huge personal price for the so-called 'royal perks' is applauding Meghan, even if only in their hearts, even if only in their graves (e.g., Margaret & Diana). Brava Duchess Meghan!
 
Andora said:
The world's their oyster,...
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Interestingly, when Meghan was still working on Suits and doing modeling spots well before she'd met Harry, she was asked about her future goals. And she responded with a smile, "The world is my oyster..." :)

Indeed, the Sussexes have supporters all over the world. Knowing that fact is in part what prompted Harry to say at the end of his public statement in September: "We thank you, the public, for your continued support. It is hugely appreciated. Although it may not seem like it, we really need it."


ETA:
For anyone who may be unaware, in his 20s, Harry had decided to step away from the royal family. He was not happy with being a prince, in addition to suffering from unresolved grief over his mother's death. The only reason Harry stayed within the fold at that point was for his grandmother, the Queen, out of love and respect. Harry is acting now in tandem with his soul mate and life partner, out of love and respect, and the desire to build a happy, peaceful and thriving life together.
 
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Zemgirl said:
I've seen this compared to Princess Madeleine of Sweden, who lives in the US with her family and only does a limited number of royal events (e.g., the Nobel Prize festivities), but of course the Swedish royals are nowhere near as high profile as the BRF, and while Madeleine and Chris had a royal wedding, he chose to remain a private citizen.
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If memory serves, they also took the time to make the decisions before the wedding. I guess, this is why William suggested Harry/they take more time?
 
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canbelto said:
Wow @Glide2 what a harsh judgmental statement. Have you ever considered that maybe Harry wants this too? That he's struggling from some issues that he's been open about and it's not all Meghan's fault? You're just racist.
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Cold-hearted Glide2 may be, but I don't see anything clearly racist in that post. I think you are making unwarranted assumptions about the poster unless you know something that isn't written there.
 
All posts that 100% blame Meghan without explaining why are racist. They would not say the same if she was white.
 
This news doesn't surprise me in the least, considering the interviews we were getting about their discontent. The Royal life doesn't seem to suit them, so they might as well find what does work for them going forward instead of carrying on and being unhappy.

Edit: I'm not sure all posts blaming Meghan have to be racist... I think any woman who took the very popular Harry away from his family and friends would be blamed, no matter what. People hated Wallis Simpson because she took their beloved King away... Camilla Parker Bowles for taking Charles away (no matter that they were a far better match)...
 
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canbelto said:
All posts that 100% blame Meghan without explaining why are racist. They would not say the same if she was white.
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Hmmm. I disagree. Harry married an ambitious American woman who is used to charting her own course. It was a quick engagement and marriage and they had a child sooner after marrying. She switched which country she lived in. I don’t think Meghan was really ready for Royal life at all, and now wants to be be back in a more normal to her life at least part of the time.

Whether Harry can make the leap with her is to be seen. Raised as Royalty, it’ll be a big adjustment to living by his wits without the income he’s used to.

If allowed Meghan could certainly have a talk show of her own but I can’t see the Royals approving that. Her way of earning money is to trade in her celebrity.
 
skatfan said:
Hmmm. I disagree. Harry married an ambitious American woman who is used to charting her own course. It was a quick engagement and marriage and they had a child sooner after marrying. She switched which country she lived in. I don’t think Meghan was really ready for Royal life at all, and now wants to be be back in a more normal to her life at least part of the time.

Whether Harry can make the leap with her is to be seen. Raised as Royalty, it’ll be a big adjustment to living by his wits without the income he’s used to.

If allowed Meghan could certainly have a talk show of her own but I can’t see the Royals approving that. Her way of earning money is to trade in her celebrity.
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In their engagement interview Harry actually said
You know, I still have to have some pretty frank conversations with her to say what you are letting yourself in for it’s a big deal. It’s not easy for anybody.
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time.com

Read About Prince Harry and Meghan Markle's Sweet First Date

"This beautiful woman just sort of literally tripped and fell into my life"
time.com time.com

IMO, those conversations should have happened before the engagement was announced.
 
I don’t think H&M will have to worry about money. They are both independently wealthy and, assuming they will take sound financial advice, they will be fine. They will always have friends and “friends” who are willing to host them in vacation villa’s and fly them in private planes.

What makes me sad (I mean as sad as I can feel for two extremely privileged people) is that they made so many unforced errors in their short time together so far. Whether it was bad advice or not listening to good advice, they have made their own lives so much more difficult and unhappy than they needed to be. As most parents know, you can’t live your kids’ lives for them. H&M will have to move forward and have hopefully learned a lot from the last couple of years.

It will worry me if they move away from Harry’s family completely. Meghan essentially has no contact with her family except her mother. That is not a very good support network for parents with a young child.
 
Judging from social media race is the first last and only thing anyone ever sees about anyone else. I feel like Harry had a difficult time explaining “people will hate you because you are black. Period and the end.”
 
canbelto said:
Judging from social media race is the first last and only thing anyone ever sees about anyone else. I feel like Harry had a difficult time explaining “people will hate you because you are black. Period and the end.”
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The thing about social media, is you have to actively look for it and read it. Yes, there are some terrible people posting terrible things. There are “fans” of Meghan who post terrible things about Kate. There are “fans” of Kate that write terrible things about Meghan. It is a cesspool that should be avoided at all costs. This goes back to the taking some time and doing some soul searching and planning that clearly did not happen before H&M got engaged. This does not mean the cesspool is in any way their fault. The game changer is now you manage your life knowing that the cesspool is there. IMHO H&M have not been able, for whatever reason, to manage that.

@Andora if you are willing to state: “such as William's rumoured affair (which I believe)” then do you also believe all the crap written by the same sources about Meghan? Because it seems to me if you are ready to believe the gutter press about one thing, you should be ready to believe them about other things.
 
Eh @Parsley Sage, misread whatever you please into the engagement interview. :blah: M&H told us a lot in that interview, and the question Harry responded to from the journalist about having discussions with Meghan regarding royal life is not the most striking, resonant or instructive comment in that interview.

Obviously Harry was intent upon not scaring Meghan away (since he'd already lost several girlfriends who didn't wish to deal with the constant intrusive media and photographers). Still, Harry said in the interview that he had conversations with Meghan during their courtship. It's not like they never had a discussion about the rigors of royal life. As well, Meghan received additional input from Harry's staffers when they were dating, in addition to having further conversations about royal life and logistics post their engagement. Harry even asked his journalist friend, Tom Bradby, to speak with Meghan after her dog walker was accosted on the street in Toronto by tab hounds and paps. I previously posted a link to the ITV video interview with Bradby that took place on the day of the royal wedding in which he comments on how calm Meghan was while Harry was a bit more nervous in wanting to ensure things would be okay. At that point in the courtship, Meghan simply didn't understand the level of aggressive, OTT scrutiny that ensued after it was revealed they were dating. But yet, she was still calm and she took in what Bradby had to say. And Bradby commented about the calming effect Meghan has on Harry, and how smart she is.

As we now know, Meghan was up for the challenges, but naively although she expected things would be difficult, she thought she would at least be treated fairly. She has not been treated fairly. That's a big part of the problem.

In this BBC report and panel discussion, the younger female journalist gets at the heart of what Meghan has been dealing with. It's rather revealing that the more conventional journalists try to blame the trolls or the royal family while attempting to deflect blame away from the British media:
www.youtube.com

Harry & Meghan to step back: What does the future hold for the Royal Family? - BBC Newsnight

The Duke and Duchess of Sussex have announced they will step back as "senior" royals and work to become financially independent. Subscribe to our channel her...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com

And here's a report from an Australian news outlet:
www.youtube.com

Prince Harry and Meghan Markle to step back as senior Royals | ABC News

Prince Harry and his wife Meghan, the Duchess of Sussex, have announced they plan to step back from their roles as senior members of the Royal family and wor...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com

I think the E-news discussion I linked earlier and some of the BBC discussion shed further light on the overbearing restrictiveness of royal life behind-the-scenes. Some of these restrictions and limitations on personal freedom were surely not described to Meghan in any detail, because it's not something others can describe until you are actually confronted with the reality of all the details. A lot of these type of difficulties might have been overcome with the family being more supportive and implementing a unified front against racial bias and damaging media attacks.

As I shared earlier, the Queen once spoke about duty and tradition and about how much she adheres to those qualities, mostly because that's how she was raised after her uncle abdicated the throne. The Queen would have loved to become a wife and mother living on a farm with horses and dogs. But she was raised to conform to stalwart, and overbearing traditions, thus she learned the necessity to sublimate herself to the crown, which however difficult it is, she at least serves as Queen. The difficulty of being in the royal family is hard for all of them, even the lesser royals, and especially the mainline royals closest to the throne, which includes Harry. He's been through all of this before. But now as a husband and a father, Harry has drawn a line against the relentless media intrusion and the archaic and isolating restrictions threatening the safety, well-being and happiness of his wife and son.
 
mag said:
The thing about social media, is you have to actively look for it and read it. Yes, there are some terrible people posting terrible things. There are “fans” of Meghan who post terrible things about Kate. There are “fans” of Kate that write terrible things about Meghan. It is a cesspool that should be avoided at all costs. This goes back to the taking some time and doing some soul searching and planning that clearly did not happen before H&M got engaged. This does not mean the cesspool is in any way their fault. The game changer is now you manage your life knowing that the cesspool is there. IMHO H&M have not been able, for whatever reason, to manage that.

@Andora if you are willing to state: “such as William's rumoured affair (which I believe)” then do you also believe all the crap written by the same sources about Meghan? Because it seems to me if you are ready to believe the gutter press about one thing, you should be ready to believe them about other things.
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im not sure if royals can avoid SM nowadays. For instance KP’s Instagram account does a quick job deleting any and all inappropriate comments about Meghan or Kate. The Royal Family’s account is slower in deleting those comments especially on the weekends. During the height of the Andrew scandal a bunch of supercritical comments were just left there. At some point I assume W&K must be consulted on which kind of comments are instantly deleted, which users to block. Assume H&M must also be made aware if there are credible threats over social media.
 
canbelto said:
KP’s Instagram account does a quick job deleting any and all inappropriate comments about Meghan or Kate.
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^^ The royal family failed to implement an effective strategy for quickly dealing with these negative, trollish comments which were chiefly being made against Meghan initially on KP's Twitter and Instagram before the Sussexes split to put together their separate staff and their individual Instagram.

In fact, it was due to Meghan joining the royal family that KP followers increased on both platforms. Nothing was done about the negative comments until the negativity began to also be directed toward Kate, while continuing against Meghan.

A huge issue, as has been previously mentioned, is the overthrow of the Queen's private secretary, Sir Christopher Geidt, which was orchestrated by staffers of both Prince Charles and Prince Andrew. Geidt had hoped to consolidate all of the separate palace communications, which those royal staffers jockeying for power and position at Royal Lodge and Clarence House were squarely lodged against. So those factions won and Geidt stepped down. The Queen subsequently gave Geidt another service honor, in addition to having him take on a position at the Queen's Commonwealth Trust. But the power coup has apparently come back to haunt the royals. The Queen does not rule with an iron fist, which is problematic in this instance because she might well have weighed in to support Geidt's authority, but she didn't. Perhaps age is catching up with her and she simply wished to keep the peace, and so gave in regarding Geidt stepping down. If Geidt had more progressive views, it is too bad he didn't prevail.

This current state of affairs does not appear to bode well for what will be a brief reign by King Charles, particularly if Charles himself does not possess the gumption and foresight to clean house of all the antiquated, old-fashioned, business as usual non-progressive thinkers who are complicating unified communication and up-to-date management practices.

A CNN Report:
www.youtube.com

Prince Harry and Meghan stepping back from royal family roles

Prince Harry and Meghan, the Duchess of Sussex, are stepping back from their roles as senior members of the British royal family and plan to work towards bec...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com

A very interesting discussion and summary by CTV news (a Canadian outlet)
www.youtube.com

Prince Harry and Meghan to 'step back' as senior royals

CTV News royal commentator Richard Berthelsen on what kind of work the Duke and Duchess of Sussex will take on after they step away as senior members of the ...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
 
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canbelto said:
im not sure if royals can avoid SM nowadays.
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Am I missing something here? Of course they can avoid the comment section. Simply don’t read them. Don’t watch “Good Morning Britain” or whatever show it is that Piers Morgan is on. Why would they watch and read that crap. How do they even know what is being said about them? The whole thing is so crazy. It is right up there with Meghan thanking an interviewer for asking how she is doing and her responding that no one or not many have asked that. Why would a regular press Corp reporter ask her that? Has she asked anyone in the royal press Corp how they are? Does she know anything about there private lives? The spouses, their children? Where are all her friends that were at the wedding and are so happy to talk to the media about her? Clearly either they were not calling up to find out how she was doing, or she was not being truthful.

Add that to statement she made about how the coverage was “not fair” and that if they had done something wrong they would admit it. Yet they didn’t. They took four private flights in quick succession and when rightfully called out it they made excuses. The correct response would have been “ yes, you are absolutely correct. We demonstrated terrible judgement taking those flights. We also realize that we are very privileged to have the opportunity for two luxury vacations in such a short time frame. It would have set a better example to either travel to France via rail or not travel at all. We are fortunate enough to have a lovely private home which is more than many have.”

I have great empathy for their unhappiness. That doesn’t mean much of it was not self inflicted. I do hope they can find peace, but I would not bet my house on it.
 
I am hearing though their financial independence involved then primarily being funded by the Dutchy and they still expect the public to pay for security non senior working royals pay rent if they live royal estates are they wanting to do that?

Cannot help wondering if they want cake eat it too plus they could have coordinated with family his Grandfather is quite ill.
 
Harry seems to be a person who once he has made a decision acts on it without always thinking of the practicalities of it. He and Meghan want to step back from royal duties and I get that as it clearly has impacted them on a negative level and apparently they told the Queen et al a week or so back that was their desire. But instead of waiting and getting the nuances sorted out like how they step away from the constraints of being unable to create independence on a financial manner but still support the Queen on official engagements, how they would still support their royal patronages - some of which are high level ones usually supported by senior royals, how their security would be paid for whilst living in North America to name but a few of the issues to be sorted out they have just gone ahead and told everyone it is all done and dusted. I can see why the Queen and Charles would be distressed and upset by this statement as clearly there are many issues to be ironed out.

Harry unfortunately appears to be slowly but surely burning his bridges with his family - I just hope he really has thought it through clearly and isn't just acting on his emotions. The media coverage of them will just intensify exponentially and regardless of what Meghan said in the Africa interview certain elements of the media in North America can and will be just as bad as certain elements of the UK media have been. Harry has previously stated he wants more privacy for himself and his family but creating a Global Foundation will put them front and centre amongst a media frenzy worse than they have here in the UK. This could well be a case of be careful of what you wish for as the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence - or the pond in this case!!
 
aftershocks said:
As we now know, Meghan was up for the challenges, but naively although she expected things would be difficult, she thought she would at least be treated fairly. She has not been treated fairly. That's a big part of the problem.
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In other words, she was ready for hypothetical challenges and not the actual challenges of being a member of the BRF. Kate and Sophie both got negative and at times unfair coverage; it's not unprecedented.

canbelto said:
im not sure if royals can avoid SM nowadays. For instance KP’s Instagram account does a quick job deleting any and all inappropriate comments about Meghan or Kate. The Royal Family’s account is slower in deleting those comments especially on the weekends. During the height of the Andrew scandal a bunch of supercritical comments were just left there. At some point I assume W&K must be consulted on which kind of comments are instantly deleted, which users to block. Assume H&M must also be made aware if there are credible threats over social media.
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Anyone who wants to avoid social media can do so. People with resources can easily outsource content creation, posting and comment moderation to others. I wouldn't advise any famous person to read everything written about them :yikes:
 
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It was actually said on the news immediately after the statement release that senior royals had been consulted, hence my original post. By not notifying the palace they've basically thrown a grenade into the quadrangle of BP. But I can see how that came about. There obviously have been initial discussions but I would imagine the reaction has been less than positive and that the palace would be doing everything in its power to stall, and make sure any eventual withdrawal would be entirely on their terms and not the Sussexes. By going ahead anyway there is now no going back and it forces the palace hand. But whatever the eventual outcome, at least they have control of their future to some degree. Although as usual the men in grey suits are doing everything they can to throw H&M under a bus. Why else do we know that the senior royals have been 'hurt' by this? We could assume that for ourselves, we didn't need a press leak airing yet more dirty laundry. It makes them all look so ridiculous.

I've said it before here and now after this I'll say it again, I do believe the monarchy is finished as the institution it once was. They are now merely regarded as over-privileged, over-exposed celebrities, that is all and they've brought it upon themselves. The whole sordid saga of Charles and Andrew plotting behind the scenes to oust Geidt just shows what petty, jealous, ridiculous, ego-driven idiots they all are. And what a HUGE mistake that is proving to be; ever since he departed this whole sorry mess of familial dysfunction continues to unravel at an alarming pace. I'm just sorry HM the Queen has to see all this over the last 2 years. All she has done is put duty first but I have a hard time seeing Charles being the one to clean house. Despite his many good deeds and intentions, I fear that he is almost as far removed from reality as his Mother.

I still wish H&M the best and props for having the nouse to see the writing on the wall and realise their only chance of staying together is to forge ahead on their own. I think that's what this all ultimately boils down to. She was never going to settle for luxury and status gift wrapped in misery was she? She's far too strong-willed and independent for that. Sadly there will be a terrible price to pay for both of them - she's already the new Wallis - and she will continue to be the excuse for many here in the UK to indulge their hatred of both blacks and Americans. I just hope they can prove the haters wrong.
 
floskate said:
I still wish H&M the best and props for having the nouse to see the writing on the wall and realise their only chance of staying together is to forge ahead on their own. I think that's what this all ultimately boils down to. She was never going to settle for luxury and status gift wrapped in misery was she? She's far too strong-willed and independent for that. Sadly there will be a terrible price to pay for both of them - she's already the new Wallis - and she will continue to be the excuse for many here in the UK to indulge their hatred of both blacks and Americans. I just hope they can prove the haters wrong.
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I fear that you are correct; yet hope that an appropriate path forward can be implemented.
 
Glide2 said:
It isn't surprising at all that she wanted to move back to Canada. I'm waiting for the announcement of the Good Morning with Meghan and Harry show. Disaster. She's a former actress. Even Princess Grace missed the business and considered going back to acting briefly. How else would they find the financial independence they are looking for? What other marketable skills are they hiding?

The timing is so close to moving into a grace and favor mansion. That is off putting; it seems ungrateful.

Will 2021 will be the divorce year? You can ditch out and do your own thing for only so long. If m. wants everything to be different than she doesn't want to be royal (who are we kidding) or British or live in England. It's just a hop, skip, and a jump to be being single again. I wish the best for Harry. I hope he finds good counsel, and mental health counselling if that is what the case is. Hopefully Harry's second wife will be less overwhelmed by all the cultural differences and trappings of royalty and intense media focus.

I hope William and Kate and the fragile looking 93-year old Queen Queen's reaction (from Marie Claire magazine)are not overly burdened with this current drama.
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She only lived in Toronto due to her job as an actress in Suits but she is American with no citizenship in Canada.
 
canbelto said:
All posts that 100% blame Meghan without explaining why are racist. They would not say the same if she was white.
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Definition of prejudice

2a(1) : preconceived judgment or opinion

(2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge
b : an instance of such judgment or opinion
c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics
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