Ross Miner Out Of Olympic Team (OFFICIAL)

[misskarne]

I away from where I can watch ... But wasn't Adam's win controversial over Nathan? Wasn't it just sort of dismissed because they were both RA's skaters and were expected to just sort of work it out amongst themselves at the rink?

Forget over Nathan, it was Max that was screwed at that Nationals.

 

[skateboy]

@becca But he isn't doing the same thing. Kori's been bringing in different jump coaches for him to work with, and she let him go to Frank Carroll to work with him. I'm sure USFS has seen the practice videos and in person that he has landed quads and even a 4T-3T cleanly at home in practice. They know he can do it and that's why they aren't dumping him. I'm sure they (and I) would be happy to see him try going to a different coach more long term, but I don't think Jason will do that.

Didn't work.

 

[bardtoob]

Forget over Nathan, it was Max that was screwed at that Nationals.

Interesting.

 

[Dr.Siouxs]

Interesting that you should say that because I finally got to watch the Mens SP yesterday and Miner's performance was not that impressive. He ended up 6th because of it..

It wasn't fabulous, that's for sure. But Vince is like watching a novice with quads..

 

[misskarne]

It wasn't fabulous, that's for sure. But Vince is like watching a novice with quads..

Not even rotated quads.

 

[antmanb]

Not even rotated quads.

Come on - you're entering caseyedwards territory with this particular beaten and dead horse here. Surely you're better than that?

 

[olympic]

Ross skated clean in both Nationals performances, something no other top man did at 2018 Nationals, no matter who doesn't like his skating or his music or his style. Again, no one is going to take away Ross' hard-won achievement nor the feeling he had leaving the ice after that standing O.

That USFS has made the memory of Ross' triumph controversial and bittersweet for fans is solely US fed's shame and their blame. IMO, the decision will come back to haunt them.

The people that accept Ross being left off the team are not trying 'to take away Ross' hard-won achievement' at Nationals. I imagine that we all accept the new criteria for making the team as a better way to get more consistent skaters to the big competitions.

 

[NoStefaniaNo]

I went back and read the Champs Camp thread last night and it was interesting how much foreshadowing there was about the way things have unfolded.

There was a lot of discussion about Bradie, admiration for Mirai's 3A, some concern for Ashley about not competing enough and "her spot" potentially being in danger, and then this tidbit about selection.

USFS' selection process for the upcoming season; Rutherford: "Because you're on the podium at U.S. Nationals doesn't necessarily mean you will get to go to the Olympics, or to Worlds."

If a reporter knew this was the situation, surely an experienced skater like Ross knew.

 

[kittyjake5]

snip

If a reporter knew this was the situation, surely an experienced skater like Ross knew.

Unless you know Ross personally it is just your speculation what Ross knew or did not know about the criteria. Did his coaches know and did not think it was important enough to pass that information onto Ross, who knows.

 

[clairecloutier]

If I were Ross, I would be very proud of my silver medal and the performance that led to it. I would re-live that feeling in my mind over and over again.

Sure, there will be the painful memory of not being on the Olympic team, but it will pass and I will cherish the good feelings into my old age and tell my grand children about how it felt.

Minor point I guess, but I feel this is a very sanguine view of the situation.

We know from interviews with former athletes that many still struggle to deal with Olympic disappointments for a long, long time after the actual event. Sasha Cohen talked about it in an article last year. She has Olympic silver, but still is unhappy with, and bothered by, her performance in Torino, even 10+ years later.

I don't think this is something that will just "pass" for Ross. He's spent his whole life in figure skating. This is going to sting for a very long time. I think Mark Mitchell's reaction to what went down in San Jose tells the tale. It's clear that the disappointment of being left off the 1992 team hasn't just "passed" for Mark either. It still hurts.

As to Ross's expectations going into Nationals, I'm sure that he was not unaware of the whole tier criteria thing. But he is an older skater who came up during the years when USFSA was pretty closely following top 3 = the team, so probably on some emotional level, he still had the feeling that top 3 might be enough. Because for many years, it was. Now maybe, he didn't have as realistic a view of it as he could have. But, as someone else just said, skaters arguably have to think optimistically, or they probably couldn't even keep on doing this sport.

 

[Skittl1321]

Anyone who saw the close up of Mirai as she took her place on the ice for the free skate should assume that being passed over for Olympic selection is not something athletes will get over easily.

I think it will be very hard for Ross, and there will always be "what could have beens".
I also think he seems like one of the nicest guys, and he seems happy for his friend Adam.

I do wish there was more transparency- who is USA #3 on the team? Adam or Vincent? How much discussion was there around Vincent going vs. Ross going? Adam going vs. Ross, etc. The meetings shouldn't be secret- release minutes, for instance; or allow people to sit in (but not speak).

And the alternate thing is just wrong. A more transparent process should justify that.

 

[BittyBug]

I don't think this is something that will just "pass" for Ross. He's spent his whole life in figure skating. This is going to sting for a very long time. I think Mark Mitchell's reaction to what went down in San Jose tells the tale. It's clear that the disappointment of being left off the 1992 team hasn't just "passed" for Mark either. It still hurts.

On the one hand, I understand this. On the other, life is full of disappointments and how we deal with those disappointments determines whether we retain an optimistic outlook or whether we become embittered. I hope that Mitchell's personal experience does not transfer to Ross, especially since there there is a lot to celebrate in his accomplishment at nationals.

 

[attyfan]

...

If a reporter knew this was the situation, surely an experienced skater like Ross knew.

IMO, there is a huge difference between knowing that making the podium does not guarantee a place on the Oly team (which is what the reporter -- and arguably Ross -- knew) and knowing that even a silver medalist may be dumped. After all, in 2014 (the first time ever that BOW was used to pick a team outside of medical byes), it was the bronze medalist who was replaced.

I also believe that there are several issues raised by the team selection process, and, the opinions on each issue can vary widely. For example, people may think that BOW is a better criteria for Oly team selection and still think that Ross was royally dissed by the USFS (i.e, that is named only second alternate; that he was told by text; etc). Also, that BOW may be better for team picking does not mean that there was enough notice to the skaters of such a massive change.

 

[julieann]

Ross' record over a 23-year span of competition is irrelevant. The factors were specifically outlined as being performance over much more limited time, with some competitions holding more weight than others. It is not a lifetime achievement award, a participation trophy given to he who has competed the longest. Heck, under that metric, we'd probably have had to send John Baldwin, Jr.

This is 100% correct. Ross had every opportunity to start his Olympic dream at LAST NATIONALS, he missed the mark. 5th place at last year's nationals where he was over 23 points away from a medal. He wasn't selected for 4CC or Worlds. He got one GP this season and finished 6th AT HOME. The other two competitions this year were 5th and 6th, not Olympic calibur skating. Yes, he skated beautifully at this year's nationals but that's not the consistency the fed is looking for.

Adam OTOH, had three bronze medals last season before WD from the us nationals and this year he has one bronze, two silver at the GP, made it to the GPF where he was 5th.

This is all the selection committee had to see:

2016-2017 Seasons Best Total Scores
3 307.46 Nathan CHEN USA ISU Four Continents Championships 2017 19.02.2017
10 267.53 Adam RIPPON USA ISU GP Trophee de France 2016 12.11.2016
12 258.11 Vincent ZHOU USA ISU World Junior Championships 2017 16.03.2017
.
.
.
48 214.48 Ross MINER USA ISU CS US Internat. FS Classic 2016 16.09.2016

2017-2018 Seasons Best Total Scores
2 293.79 Nathan CHEN USA ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2017 21.10.2017
7 266.45 Adam RIPPON USA ISU GP Skate America 2017 26.11.2017
12 256.66 Vincent ZHOU USA ISU GP Audi Cup of China 2017 05.11.2017
.
.
.
27 233.72 Ross MINER USA ISU CS Finlandia Trophy 2017 07.10.2017

If he could prove he can get scores closer to the top, he would've been on the team, but he's proven this season, he can't. They want to send the team who can get the highest scores and placements. Even if Ross got his personal best +20, he'd be much lower than the other men.

I love Ross but if he wants to go for the 2022 games (which I hope he does) he needs to get started now, not at the 2022 US Nationals.

 

[SkateGuard]

I don't think this is something that will just "pass" for Ross. He's spent his whole life in figure skating. This is going to sting for a very long time. I think Mark Mitchell's reaction to what went down in San Jose tells the tale. It's clear that the disappointment of being left off the 1992 team hasn't just "passed" for Mark either. It still hurts.

As to Ross's expectations going into Nationals, I'm sure that he was not unaware of the whole tier criteria thing. But he is an older skater who came up during the years when USFSA was pretty closely following top 3 = the team, so probably on some emotional level, he still had the feeling that top 3 might be enough. Because for many years, it was. Now maybe, he didn't have as realistic a view of it as he could have. But, as someone else just said, skaters arguably have to think optimistically, or they probably couldn't even keep on doing this sport.

You raise some really good points here Claire. I think one of the biggest problems in skating right now is the rise of the short term memory.

On another note, I think it's really problematic to use the defense of comparing Ross solely to Adam in justifying why Ross was excluded from the team. The spin on this really seems to largely exclude the Ross .vs. Vincent discussion.

 

[wickedwitch]

On the one hand, I understand this. On the other, life is full of disappointments and how we deal with those disappointments determines whether we retain an optimistic outlook or whether we become embittered. I hope that Mitchell's personal experience does not transfer to Ross, especially since there there is a lot to celebrate in his accomplishment at nationals.

This. So much this.

I don't expect Ross to be able to do this immediately, but at some point, I hope he goes and reads Jordan Moeller's pre-LP instagram post or takes a moment to compare his situation to Josh Farris'. Because of regardless of how unfair this situation may be, I want him to be able to be at least content with his skating career. And I hope someday, he can look back on his skate from Saturday and just feel proud (with maybe a tad bit of disappointment) about how good he was that night.

 

[gkelly]

One of the heartbreaking things about this sport is that there are so few opportunities at the very top.

If competing at (let alone medaling at or winning) the Olympics is the definition of a happy ending, then most skaters are not going to get that happy ending.

If there are more worthy skaters than there are Olympic opportunities available, then some worthy skaters will be left off the team.

That isn't anybody's fault, it just is.

If USFS had chosen a different men's team this year or a different ladies' team this year or in 2014, we'd be having different arguments, but we would still be having arguments.

 

[aftershocks]

Oh thank you @clairecloutier, @attyfan, and others. So many well-made points in your posts. Of course this is not an easy situation, nor was the decision easy. It boils down to USFS unfortunately not understanding the need to take a larger view of the situation, and not rush the decision. They needed to look at it from all angles. There's a lot going on here.

I personally don't have sympathy for USFS bigwigs because they have failed time and again to take a step back and realize the issues are huge and need to be examined much more thoughtfully and over time, and with an understanding of history, as well as current realities. They have shot themselves in the foot with this decision for a number of reasons and in many ways that might not be readily apparent. The different levels and underpinnings of the ramifications are coming to light in many posts here by many fans. And it doesn't break down along the lines of who's for or against certain skaters being selected either. None of this is the skaters' fault. None of it. And it's not Mark Mitchell's fault either how he is processing what happened. I really wish the negativity against Mark in comments here would cease. In a TSL interview a few years ago, Todd Eldredge spoke about what happened in 1992 and he mentioned that he and Mark are on good terms these days having resolved any ill feelings between each other personally. In the interview, Todd seems to regret having been placed on the team without having been able to compete at Nationals. So yes, none of these feelings for any of the athletes involved ever simply go away.

It's cool that today the U.S. men all seem to get along very well and are sportsmanlike and supportive as a group, despite the tensions of having to compete head-to-head for limited and coveted opportunities. They all understand what it feels like to sometimes be treated unfairly by judges and by their federation. USFS doesn't seem to learn much from the gracious example of their athletes. Isn't the Olympics after all about overcoming the odds? Among other factors, by denying Ross Miner his place on the team, USFS missed a positive and uplifting Olympic storyline (that involved both Ross and his coach Mark Mitchell). No matter where Ross may have ultimately placed in the Olympic standings (we'll never know), the power and inspirational appeal of rewarding his triumphant effort at Nationals should not be underestimated. But sadly, it already has been quickly and thoroughly disregarded, not just underestimated.

Some people seem to feel that Mark Mitchell should just suck it up and go away with his head held down. Keep on feeling that way. Unfortunate karma might eventually catch up with you for being so insensitive. USFS should not keep expecting everyone to toe their party line and pander to their lame authority. Quite honestly, USFS are obviously already trying to do damage control, probably even here on FSU. They are going to be kept busy with that effort. And one of the big reasons why is directly connected with Mark Mitchell's reaction: "Why would they [the young athletes] want to come back to the rink?" You can bet that many parents of skaters are asking themselves that question too. The sport is rather expensive, in more ways than one.

IMHO, it's probably only worth continuing in figure skating for recreational purposes. For those young athletes dreaming of going to the Olympics, it might be best to reassess their talents and maybe take up a different Olympic sport. Unless you happen to have Nathan Chen-caliber talents! And let's face it, Nathan Chen is rather unique. He possesses a very rare combination of abilities and character traits. At a time when USFS is presumptuously and lamely fostering a #WEGETUP campaign, they have just told Ross Miner and countless other young athletes to #GETDOWNOFFTHEPODIUM #NOOLYMPICSFORYOU #DONTEVENBOTHERTOTRY

 

[Vash01]

On the one hand, I understand this. On the other, life is full of disappointments and how we deal with those disappointments determines whether we retain an optimistic outlook or whether we become embittered. I hope that Mitchell's personal experience does not transfer to Ross, especially since there there is a lot to celebrate in his accomplishment at nationals.

That was exactly my point. People - athletes or not- react to disappointments and even tragedies differently. I am not saying it's easy to let it pass but for our own well being it is necessary to let go of the pain and find happiness. Otherwise we will all be wrecks. We, as human beings have a natural ability to let go of the bad memories and retain the good ones, unless we insist on rolling in misery.

 

[caseyedwards]

This is 100% correct. Ross had every opportunity to start his Olympic dream at LAST NATIONALS, he missed the mark. 5th place at last year's nationals where he was over 23 points away from a medal. He wasn't selected for 4CC or Worlds. He got one GP this season and finished 6th AT HOME. The other two competitions this year were 5th and 6th, not Olympic calibur skating. Yes, he skated beautifully at this year's nationals but that's not the consistency the fed is looking for.

Adam OTOH, had three bronze medals last season before WD from the us nationals and this year he has one bronze, two silver at the GP, made it to the GPF where he was 5th.

This is all the selection committee had to see:

2016-2017 Seasons Best Total Scores
3 307.46 Nathan CHEN USA ISU Four Continents Championships 2017 19.02.2017
10 267.53 Adam RIPPON USA ISU GP Trophee de France 2016 12.11.2016
12 258.11 Vincent ZHOU USA ISU World Junior Championships 2017 16.03.2017
.
.
.
48 214.48 Ross MINER USA ISU CS US Internat. FS Classic 2016 16.09.2016

2017-2018 Seasons Best Total Scores
2 293.79 Nathan CHEN USA ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2017 21.10.2017
7 266.45 Adam RIPPON USA ISU GP Skate America 2017 26.11.2017
12 256.66 Vincent ZHOU USA ISU GP Audi Cup of China 2017 05.11.2017
.
.
.
27 233.72 Ross MINER USA ISU CS Finlandia Trophy 2017 07.10.2017

If he could prove he can get scores closer to the top, he would've been on the team, but he's proven this season, he can't. They want to send the team who can get the highest scores and placements. Even if Ross got his personal best +20, he'd be much lower than the other men.

I love Ross but if he wants to go for the 2022 games (which I hope he does) he needs to get started now, not at the 2022 US Nationals.

No totally disagree strongly. This is not love of Ross it’s total horrible dismissal and condescension. Not everyone can be consistent! You are saying if you can’t be consistent retire. Or some can’t really afford monetarily to be training so much. People must be allowed based on historical precedents to be allowed do do best near Olympics and peak at nationals. It’s just disgusting these mandatory exclusion demands if someone has a low period!

 

[caseyedwards]

Come on - you're entering caseyedwards territory with this particular beaten and dead horse here. Surely you're better than that?

But they aren’t rotated! Better than rippon being entirely quadless but Zhou has lots of trouble!

 

[Tavi]

Didn't work.

Debatable. Compare his jumps at Skate America 2016 and Worlds 2017 to his jumps in 2014/2015. There’s a big difference.

I’m not disputing that he’s having issues in competition this year, but people who were at Nats practices said he was landing great 3As and that he landed several 4Ts.

Yes, practice and competition are different, something’s going on with his consistency, and he clearly still has work to do.

But I don’t think it’s any more accurate to say Jason’s jumps haven’t improved than to say Vincent’s presentation hasn’t improved. JMO.

 

[caseyedwards]

On the one hand, I understand this. On the other, life is full of disappointments and how we deal with those disappointments determines whether we retain an optimistic outlook or whether we become embittered. I hope that Mitchell's personal experience does not transfer to Ross, especially since there there is a lot to celebrate in his accomplishment at nationals.

Totally disagree. Nationals is not an end in and of itself! It’s supposed to mean entry to worlds or Olympics. If you do well there and win silver and don’t move forward it’s all waste. It means nothing. You are thrown in the trash like garbage.

 

[aftershocks]

One of the heartbreaking things about this sport is that there are so few opportunities at the very top.

If competing at (let alone medaling at or winning) the Olympics is the definition of a happy ending, then most skaters are not going to get that happy ending.

If there are more worthy skaters than there are Olympic opportunities available, then some worthy skaters will be left off the team.

That isn't anybody's fault, it just is.

If USFS had chosen a different men's team this year or a different ladies' team this year or in 2014, we'd be having different arguments, but we would still be having arguments.

Quite true @gkelly. That's why I ask why USFS didn't take a step back and think about this from a variety of angles. Why? Because their minds were already made up about who they wanted on the team. They had a working short list, but they obviously didn't have any back-up scenarios in mind. They thought their press release regarding the BOW criteria was enough. They didn't learn from the 2014 Olympic selection fiasco. They took too much for granted that what they hoped would happen, would happen. But once again, Skate Gods threw a wrench. Not so fast! Monitor those expectations everyone.

USFS may as well have come right out and named the athletes on their short list. And then informed everyone that all of the other athletes would only be competing for Nationals placements, not for Olympic berths. As fans, we had a sense of what the BOW might mean. But once again, in its current form, it hadn't ever been strictly applied. Obviously, they need to think of all the possibilities of what could happen. Ross was known to have great talent and he'd placed in the top three in the sp over the preceding two years. Sometimes it pays not to underestimate athletes, and especially not to annoy the Skate Gods.

The big question: "Is USFS even learning anything at all from the current situation???" Apparently not, since they are too busy trying to marshall as many people as they possibly can to stay on 'party line' topic. Just like I heard it gossiped that Lynn Plage most likely sent out a memo to NBC broadcasters to stay away from mentioning anything about I, Tonya, or even indirectly referencing the Kerrigan-Harding episode.

Under the circumstances, had USFS kept Ross on the team and replaced Vincent with Adam, the BOW would have equally applied, plus Vincent is obviously ahead of schedule. Realistically, Vincent may have two more opportunities (2022 and 2026) to make an Olympic team. This is Ross' final season and everyone knew that too. Vincent mentioned being happily surprised last year when he placed second, with Jason competing while injured, and Adam out altogether with a foot injury. Vincent had not expected to be on the podium. The boost in confidence helped him win Junior Worlds. However, Vincent did not have a strong senior GP season. Seemingly as a result, USFS were more-so looking at Nathan, Adam and Jason for the team. That was obvious when Jason was placed third in the sp over Grant who skated better in the sp. Apparently both Grant and Ross were not on the short list. Probably Max Aaron was not on the short list either. In light of the judges manipulating scores in the sp, they should not have outfoxed themselves in the fp.

Again, there are many levels of feelings, emotions, and realities going on here. USFS' preparedness, as well as their short term and long term planning, as usual, are lacking. USFS should take stock, rather than making excuses and trying to sweep everything under the rug, and expecting everyone to shrug their shoulders and go along to get along. Yes, this is all very difficult, but USFS' abrupt actions and lame handling of the presser, not to mention dismissively naming Ross only second alternate to Worlds, are seen by many as insensitive.

However it was handled, USFS needed to examine all the different scenarios and ramifications, and be better prepared to answer tough questions. They didn't and they weren't.

 

[Yazmeen]

On the one hand, I understand this. On the other, life is full of disappointments and how we deal with those disappointments determines whether we retain an optimistic outlook or whether we become embittered. I hope that Mitchell's personal experience does not transfer to Ross, especially since there there is a lot to celebrate in his accomplishment at nationals.

And I sincerely hope Mark Mitchell doesn't do a number on Ross's head about this like Frank Carroll did with Linda Fratianne. To this day, Linda is convinced she was cheated of a gold medal in 1980 and still has a tendency to claim she was held down in figures and won the short program and freeskate at Lake Placid. She received the same placement in figures as she did the previous year at Worlds (3rd) and won the short (same at Worlds). However, Denise Biellmann won the freeskate in 1980, and Linda's factored placements could not put her above Annette Poetsch. Not to mention that IMO, Frank has been trying to turn every female skater he's ever had since then into "Linda II" and it has spectacularly backfired at times, Gracie being the possible best example.

A good article on the Lake Placid competition: http://www.soniabianchetti.com/writings_fpcr.html

Mark needs to grieve, let it go, and let Ross be proud of his amazing skate and silver medal without adding an unnecessary asterisk to it.

And for the "Ross was robbed" crowd here - none of the rest of us who are supporting the decision to put Adam on the team are attempting to diminish Ross's accomplishment at this year's Nationals, he had 2 amazing skates and his medal was deserved. However, we understand that the criteria were in place well prior to Nationals and why the decision was made, even if we don't necessarily like it. And if we knew it was there, along with it's emphasis on the previous 23 years, Ross and Mark also knew.

 

[aftershocks]

This. So much this.

I don't expect Ross to be able to do this immediately, but at some point, I hope he goes and reads Jordan Moeller's pre-LP instagram post or takes a moment to compare his situation to Josh Farris'. Because of regardless of how unfair this situation may be, I want him to be able to be at least content with his skating career. And I hope someday, he can look back on his skate from Saturday and just feel proud (with maybe a tad bit of disappointment) about how good he was that night.

Sure, but that's about what you want and it's presuming to know exactly how Ross is adjusting to this, and what he felt going in. It's also ignoring the fact that we don't know exactly what Ross has already had to overcome to stay in the sport and to reach his moment of triumph at 2018 Nationals. As Ross said, he left his heart and soul out there on the ice. He gave it everything he had and then some. That's why his performances will be memorable, even despite what happened in the aftermath. We are all presuming of course, unless any of us have spoken to Ross directly. Plus we are expressing more about how we each are individually feeling, or what we may have witnessed over the years, and what our own emotions for the sport are about.

I don't think any of us should presume to tell Ross how he should feel or what he needs to do. So far, (if you've seen the brief local news interview with Ross, posted earlier) he's been handling everything with a great deal of class and some noticeable disappointment and what seems like sad resignation. However, he's already expressed how the feeling he had after his performance can "never be taken away." Ross is a very classy and hardworking young man. I posted Adam's kind tweet about Ross earlier. So apparently Adam and everyone who knows Ross feels the same way about him: "... Ross Miner is one of the nicest and best humans I've ever met."

For me personally, I think the quality of Ross' character is what went underestimated and carelessly dismissed with a few thoughtless words. And that's a huge, huge part of the problem that underpins this sense of sadness. Some people are missing too that this situation extends beyond Ross (as I outlined earlier), but keep on seeing it as you will, and processing it in the way you wish.

 

[julieann]

No totally disagree strongly. This is not love of Ross it’s total horrible dismissal and condescension. Not everyone can be consistent! You are saying if you can’t be consistent retire.

That's not AT ALL what I said, you either didn't read it or you need to read it again.

By your theory nothing a skater does matters EXCEPT for nationals? So if Volosozhar and Trankov got 4th at nationals they would be left of the Olympic team or Aliona and Bruno wouldn't go if they failed and got second? Be serious. The same goes for Medvedeva and Duhamel and Radford. Consistency means something.

I said Ross needs to continue, he's young enough but he knew the criteria going in. Nothing stopped him from winning Finlandia, but he got 6th and was over 59 points from gold. Nothing stopped him from winning The Autumn Classic, but he got 6th and was over 18 points from gold (and behind Adam.) Nothing stopped him from winning Skate America, but he got 6th and was over 56 points from gold (and again, behind Adam.)

Not to mention the season's best's scores. The selection committee went with the best men for the job. The only way to stop a selection committee is to have an Olympic Trials, the top skaters go, but that's never going to happen for a myriad of reasons. Ross is a national silver medalist for 2018, he can build on that.

 

[aftershocks]

And I sincerely hope Mark Mitchell doesn't do a number on Ross's head about this like Frank Carroll did with Linda Fratianne.

Why are you bringing Frank Carroll and Linda Fratianne into this discussion though? Linda competed at two Olympics. You are talking about something that bothers you regarding Frank Carroll and Linda Fratianne, which has nothing to do with Ross Miner and Mark Mitchell. Since you do not know anything about Mark's personal and coaching relationship with Ross, it might be best for you to not make such a huge presumption.

 

[gkelly]

However, we understand that the criteria were in place well prior to Nationals and why the decision was made, even if we don't necessarily like it. And if we knew it was there, along with it's emphasis on the previous 23 years, Ross and Mark also knew.

What would skaters like Nathan and Vincent, or Bradie and Karen, think about criteria that emphasize the previous 23 years, considering they didn't exist 23 years ago?

 

[caseyedwards]

That's not AT ALL what I said, you either didn't read it or you need to read it again.

By your theory nothing a skater does matters EXCEPT for nationals? So if Volosozhar and Trankov got 4th at nationals they would be left of the Olympic team or Aliona and Bruno wouldn't go if they failed and got second? Be serious. The same goes for Medvedeva and Duhamel and Radford. Consistency means something.

I said Ross needs to continue, he's young enough but he knew the criteria going in. Nothing stopped him from winning Finlandia, but he got 6th and was over 59 points from gold. Nothing stopped him from winning The Autumn Classic, but he got 6th and was over 18 points from gold (and behind Adam.) Nothing stopped him from winning Skate America, but he got 6th and was over 56 points from gold (and again, behind Adam.)

Not to mention the season's best's scores. The selection committee went with the best men for the job. The only way to stop a selection committee is to have an Olympic Trials, the top skaters go, but that's never going to happen for a myriad of reasons. Ross is a national silver medalist for 2018, he can build on that.

You are talking about world champions and Olympic champions and the top of the sport. They should get special consideration and treatment. Medvedeva is getting special treatment. Rippon is not equal to Medvedeva or savchenko and massot! Rippon doesn’t deserve special treatment. I do not believe only nationals matter! But between 2 journeyman who cares about who is a little better.

Rippon the best man for the job? What’s the job? 10th place? Miner can get 10th place. You are not talking about a real contender here!

You can’t be serious with these “nothing stopped...” comments. You don’t know the training or financial situations of skaters that may demand they schedule their season for nationals. Because they have to work a lot in the summer! Sure people who can train all summer can be good very early in the season and build up steam but you must consider the skaters who coach or do other jobs to make money to pay for ice time and all associated preparation for nationals.