Ross Miner Out Of Olympic Team (OFFICIAL)

[caseyedwards]

I am good with choosing Rippon over Miner. Rippon had this FS last year - and his PCS has been consistently about 87 points for it - even last year. That is much better than Miner usually gets internationally, and Adam has been consistent with 2 seasons with this. Also, Rippon does have a chance to land 4lutz.

Rippon has no quads

I think the poster in question was suggesting was that Miner would not have won more because he'd finish no higher than third. Which is a surprising argument from someone so vehemently in favor of sending Miner to the Olympics.

Wagner can make the case that as first alternate, she'd rather stay home and train in case she's needed on the Olympic team. With Miner I can totally understand him not being motivated at this point, or preferring to keep his final performance the Nationals one.

Uno is going to be at 4cC! He’s also most likely to medal or win Olympics too. Then you have two time world bronze medalist Jin. I don’t say Miner is great. He beat another journeyman. Miner was not winning 4cc or anything.

 

[becca]

There is no guarantee of $8000. Plus I think Miner has had huge dissappointment maybe not in mindset to skatewell.

 

[soogar]

First place gets $20,000 USD. Pretty good money for a weekend of work

Of course the skater only gets around half after taxes. I remember in Brennan's book that Frank or Michelle commented that they take both US and international tax from those winnings. Once you pay coach's fees to attend the event (usually coaches ask for money to make up for lost home lessons) and all the other stuff for training, you might as well stay home and not spend all that money for a chance to win 20K (which may wind up 11K after taxes).

 

[soogar]

Because people need money to live. Plus, going to Taiwan would be really fun. I'm not saying Ross needs it or anything, but just giving reasons why $8,000 is a good bit amount of money and having to go to Taiwan and compete while the fed pays traveling expenses doesn't seem too bad.

The guy isn't a little kid. It costs money to train for events and he still has to pay his coach's fees and he may be forfeiting his own wages to go to an event for a chance to earn a little bit of money which would be greatly diminished by the taxes. 8K isn't exactly a lot of money - we're not talking about tennis. Plus he has to sit on that long ass flight. I don't think the USFS flies their skaters business class. Nothing like sitting on a 14 hour flight in coach with the legs swelling to get ready for a consolation competition. He doesn't want to continue competing next season, so it makes sense to let another skater get the ranking points.

 

[Vagabond]

The guy isn't a little kid. It costs money to train for events and he still has to pay his coach's fees and he may be forfeiting his own wages to go to an even for a chance to earn a little bit of money

Ross Miner does indeed work as a coaching assistant to Mark Mitchell and Peter Johansson.
https://www.mjmskating.com/new-index-1/

 

[VGThuy]

It’s a matter of cost-benefit. Cost of coaching expenses, long flight, and training within the next few weeks potentially earning $8,000 to $20,000 vs. not having to train and pay coach, money made working as a coach, etc.

I don’t know but I think the prize money would still come out in top in terms of numbers and I’d think he’d have something prepared since he was trying to go for the Olympics and Worlds. I’m not saying Ross needs the money or that he’s even mentally prepared to compete considering how he must feel after the Olympic selection. I just think some of these arguments are a bit trying too hard to dismiss what I feel is a lot of money for regular people. I guess I’m not in a position to scoff at $8,000 yet.

 

[becca]

I'm not in position to scoff at 8000 but with taxes it won't be that and it could be well less.

 

[rfisher]

First place gets $20,000 USD. Pretty good money for a weekend of work

The odds of Ross winning against Uno or Hanyu are non-existent. I don't blame him from not going and ending his career on a great skate.

 

[legjumper]

The odds of Ross winning against Uno or Hanyu are non-existent. I don't blame him from not going and ending his career on a great skate.

Not just a great skate - a DREAM skate and a dream competition!

 

[becca]

I also think Ross dreamed all of his life about going to the Olympics. Sacrificed for it. This likely last chance and to lose out this way. He may not be of mindset to skate. He goes skates poorly he will get criticisms.

 

[MacMadame]

I think the poster in question was suggesting was that Miner would not have won more because he'd finish no higher than third. Which is a surprising argument from someone so vehemently in favor of sending Miner to the Olympics.

Yes, but now it's being treated like it's a fact that he would only win $8000. In reality, he could win more or less or nothing at all.

OTOH:

I just think some of these arguments are a bit trying too hard to dismiss what I feel is a lot of money for regular people. I guess I’m not in a position to scoff at $8,000 yet.

^^THIS

 

[soogar]

I'm not in position to scoff at 8000 but with taxes it won't be that and it could be well less.

You would think differently if it cost you $5000 for a chance to win $8000 (more like $5K after taxes). I don't think the money is great at all and then it's not as if he gets a guaranteed appearance fee. Plus it is still a competition so it's not exactly fun and let's say he did mess up, there will be some hater who would say why didn't he let another skater have a chance at the points since he was going to retire anyway. At least another skater will have a chance at prize money or to get points for the Grand Prix.

 

[Vagabond]

Some things do not have a monetary value.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Of course the skater only gets around half after taxes. I remember in Brennan's book that Frank or Michelle commented that they take both US and international tax from those winnings

The ISU pays the Federation the avoid having to do withholding. The Feds pay the skaters, and they are officially entitled to 10%. This is in the ISU documentation.

The skaters shouldn't pay taxes unless their earnings are greater than their skating-related expenses, including their coaches expenses. Which is everyone but the very top skaters. And the prize money has shrunk since Brennan wrote her books, as well as appearance fees for cheesefests.

 

[soogar]

The ISU pays the Federation the avoid having to do withholding. The Feds pay the skaters, and they are officially entitled to 10%. This is in the ISU documentation.

The skaters shouldn't pay taxes unless their earnings are greater than their skating-related expenses, including their coaches expenses. Which is everyone but the very top skaters. And the prize money has shrunk since Brennan wrote her books, as well as appearance fees for cheesefests.

I don't know how the USFS cuts a check, but most places withhold taxes and in the case of one time payments, some places may withhold quite a bit depending on what tax bracket they use. It still has to be reported to the IRS and whether he has to pay taxes on it depends on total income earned and skating expenses. It's not good money or a really prestigious title. Is it even going to be shown on US television. People are arguing that it's good money but I don't think it is [Ross obviously doesn't either] and for a skater not continuing on, it's not worth attending.

 

[VGThuy]

Serious question, would it really be an additional $5,000 for a skater to continue training for a few more weeks and compete overseas if travel expenses were paid for?

 

[gkelly]

If he's paying going rates for ice time and coaching, probably yes.

If he has a deal with the rink and the coaches, perhaps not.

 

[olympic]

Ross may want to leave skating on a high note and isn't interested in 4CC. OTOH, Grant may want to go for one final great performance at 4CC, because it wasn't quite there in the LP at Nationals.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Even if taxes are withheld, that doesn't mean they are owed: if not owed, they can file for a refund.

 

[Rock2]

Just now, Mike Slipchuk, Canada's High Performance Director, on the selection process (note Canada has this long list of criteria/events like the USA and he's in the meeting) as interviewed live on TSN before the men's event: "you want to stick to the (Nationals) standings as much as you can".

Atta boy. #makeNationalsmeansomething

 

[lala]

What was Plushenko's selection in 2014 if not body of work? Kovtun won Nats, Voronov and Menshov medalled at Euros, and Plushy went to Sochi on the strength of... what? His Volvo Cup win? It was a career achievement award and everyone knew it.

True, and because of his consistency the Russians wanted the team gold the most! And because of his popularity , fame what raised the rank of tournament needed a Russian superstar. (In that time no one thought Lipnitskaya's role and popularity at OG.) Those helped him.You mentioned the Volvo Cup that was his first competition after his surgery, the competition's organizers complained they couldn't handle the media interest journalists were even from exotic countries and the prestigious Stern magazine followed the story there.
He was checked continously by the Rus fed he was in good shape.The coaching team decided he will go to Sochi after a test skate. In the practice one day before his injury he landed in quads and 4-3-3.
Everybody knows the story. What a drama! Sometimes the life is a best screenwritter...

 

[aftershocks]

Also, Rippon does have a chance to land 4lutz

So do I.

Adam Rippon has successfully landed the quad-lutz in competition (at least twice AFAIK), but dissers can keep on tripping, and dissing. Those fans who have never attempted any quad jump but can expound so often and so loudly against Adam's abilities, I suppose must be landing quads in their dreams.

Ross Miner does indeed work as a coaching assistant to Mark Mitchell and Peter Johansson.
https://www.mjmskating.com/new-index-1/

Thanks for sharing. I see that Ross' girlfriend, Heidi Munger, also works at the MJM rink as a coaching assistant. And Munger is the figure skating double for Margot Robbie in I, Tonya. I still have yet to see that talked about movie, but hopefully I will soon.

Grant may want to go for one final great performance at 4CC, because it wasn't quite there in the LP at Nationals.

Grant is also getting married to Caroline soon, so any extra money he earns will surely come in handy.

 

[Tavi]

Adam has never received credit in competition for a landed, fully-rotated 4Z. The ones he hasn’t fallen on were at least >.

He has received credit for a landed fully-rotated 4T a few times, most recently at T de France 2016.

 

[Willin]

@Tavi But a UR 4Lz is still worth 3.5 points more than a 3Lz and only 0.8 less than a 4T (And I do that that's a problem that needs to be addressed), so going for the 4Lz isn't exactly a very risky risk as far as points go.
IIRC he wanted to do the 4T, but because he broke his L foot (used to tap into the ice for a 4T), he was advised not to use it for a quad. I guess triples are okay since you put less force on the tapping foot. It might also be that he wasn't able to practice the 4T for months with that broken foot, so he had to go back to practicing the 4Lz.

 

[Tavi]

@Tavi But a UR 4Lz is still worth 3.5 points more than a 3Lz and only 0.8 less than a 4T (And I do that that's a problem that needs to be addressed), so going for the 4Lz isn't exactly a very risky risk as far as points go.
IIRC he wanted to do the 4T, but because he broke his L foot (used to tap into the ice for a 4T), he was advised not to use it for a quad. I guess triples are okay since you put less force on the tapping foot. It might also be that he wasn't able to practice the 4T for months with that broken foot, so he had to go back to practicing the 4Lz.

I don’t dispute anything you say! I guess I should have made it clear that I was simply responding to what I believe is a factually incorrect statement in the post above me (post 1280).

 

[antmanb]

Just attempting to purge my soul of the bitterness and irritation that the skaters who have done the hard yards and worked on their technique to rotate are effectively punished when skaters like Zhou are given huge scores. Bitter and unhappy that Max went back and reworked his whole quad toe technique - by himself, by video analysis - and didn't just throw it out there before it was ready, but worked until it was clean, when apparently, what he should have been doing is just trying every quad even if it was UR, if we go by the Zhou example (or the Rippon example).

Also, mildly pissed off that people go berko crazy when Jason under-rotates, but Zhou under-rotating is apparently okay?

Because you constantly harp on about "people", when the only way your arguments work is if it is the same people in those cases.

First you start with the piss and vinegar about Max never catching a break from the USFSA. Then you completely fabricate BS arguments about him. The guy can't land quads. Yes he lands them more frequently than Jason but he's hardly consistent with them. When he lands them he gets rewarded (see Trophee de France). When he lands them and puts a 2T on the end (which he more often than not does) he shoots himself in the foot by 3 points.

Everyone can see that Zhou under-rotates - the protocols afterwards clearly show all the under-rotations, and he still beat both your guys. Get over it.

 

[Tinami Amori]

What was Plushenko's selection in 2014 if not body of work? Kovtun won Nats, Voronov and Menshov medalled at Euros, and Plushy went to Sochi on the strength of... what? His Volvo Cup win? It was a career achievement award and everyone knew it.

... and the fact that everyone knew, that Plush, once on ice, will "deliver or die".. (and that Kovtun had work ethics issues..)

 

[clairecloutier]

Instagram post from Ross: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bd-ON95n-JG/

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Thanks for sharing that recent post by Ross @clairecloutier. I had checked Ross' Instagram in the aftermath of Nationals, but Ross likely needed time to gather his thoughts.

Ross 'Boss' Miner should have the last word in this thread, just as he had the cleanest overall performances and the most victorious moment among the men at U.S. Nationals in an Olympic year! Thank you Ross!

"I just wanted to say thank you for the tremendous outpouring of support I've received. I'm disappointed with the things I couldn't control, but I am INCREDIBLY proud of how I performed under pressure. No matter what, the happiness and accomplishment I felt in the moment this picture was taken will never leave my heart. Two clean skates, two standing ovations at US championships in an Olympic year. Getting the silver medal was amazing, but damn this moment felt gold."

A gold moment and a golden career! Thank you, Ross. I will revisit your performances many times. Whenever I am feeling down, I know watching you skate will bring a huge smile to my face.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I guess I’m not in a position to scoff at $8,000 yet.

$8000 less the expenses of training until then plus his coaches' travel expenses less lost lesson fees.

I don't think the money was the driving factor. At best realistic, it might have netted $0, since he was planning to retire anyway.