Ross Miner Out Of Olympic Team (OFFICIAL)

[Willin]

Come on - you're entering caseyedwards territory with this particular beaten and dead horse here. Surely you're better than that?

Because it's an important "dead horse" to beat. Even with the URs/downgrades he has a higher BV than Ross and the other men who rely on clean triples (his BV with 3 UR quads was 97.49, though TES was only 98.47 due to -GOE as opposed to Ross's 82.91/96), so by BV and international scores Vincent deserved the team over Ross. Vincent's BV/TES at Nationals was 97.49 and 98.47 despite -GOE, 3 URs, and a downgrad; Ross's BV/TES at Nationals was 82.91/96.16 with NO URs/Downgrads and only one very slight -GOE. That means even with great GOE and no penalties in calling, Ross still couldn't overcome Vincent's TES. I think that says more about the value of quads than it does anything else...

But, the reason it is more important is that it means Vincent probably won't be competitive at Worlds or the Olympics this year. While he can do quads, Nathan, Shoma, Yuzuru, and Javier can all do a number of quads without any URs or downgrades. Still more skaters can do slightly fewer quads per program but can beat Vincent on TES due to the quality of their quads and lack of UR/Downgrades along with superior PCS. That's the dead horse we should be beating - that Vincent needs to fix that UR/Downgrade problem to be competitive unless Yuzu and Javi retire - and even then he might struggle to get a medal in a stacked field.

 

[Rock2]

One of the reasons a panel looks at the body of work IS because of outlier competitions. Like, say, nationals.

We have no idea if Ross is trending upwards. One good competition does not make a trend. I guess if he wins 4CCs we will see he is, and maybe USFS will have to admit they made a mistake.

....and I think that's what's at the center of the debate.

My contention is that nationals is the one event that should not be considered an outlier. It's the one everyone trains to peak for and it's the event where you get to compare everyone at the same time at their greatest state of preparedness. This event is also in bigger arenas, bigger audiences, more TV, more focus, more pressure. Everything about it speaks to its importance as the best place and timing to measure physical and mental readiness.

I'm not sure if trends mean anything. One competition means little for the next, other than do you look trained and are you and your programs ready to compete to the max. If not, your chances of being ready to kill it in a month aren't great.
So many factors influence results one event to another, from ice conditions, personal health, time of day you skate, travel, etc. I find only the top 4-5 in the world to be so elite that they can overcome the things we don't see one event to the next.

How any of these guys perform for the rest of the season can be taken with a grain of salt although we can look at it. I can't imagine Ross wanting to compete again or have any interest in training. I think the ONLY reason to go to 4CC might be to make a few bucks and/or keep himself in shape in the faint hopes an Olympic spot opens up. As a second alternate I'd prob find it near impossible to come to the arena again. I can't see him being mentally up for 4CC if he even goes.

Having said that, if Adam or Vincent win an Olympic or world medal....and/or help USA finish higher than bronze then we can probably say this ended up being worth it.

 

[aftershocks]

What would skaters like Nathan and Vincent, or Bradie and Karen, think

No matter the criteria, competition scenarios, or application of the criteria for whatever reasonable period of time, USFS have never seemed to care what the skaters think about anything. Apparently skaters are just expected to skate without flaws and get with the program.

Seriously, why not be more transparent USFS? Also, why not make an attempt to be better prepared? Get some help with your short term and long term decision-making. Employ crisis management experts who have the savvy to also become grounded in a knowledge of the sport, in order to give you guys some help in these situations.

Above all, make public your short list. That way everyone will know exactly who is going to be competing for spots on the Olympics and Worlds teams. And only those on the list will need to be concerned about BOW criteria. Everyone else will only be competing for Nationals placements and they will know that if they land on the podium, they are lucky to be there and their BOW isn't part of any equation. Also, why not make a concerted effort to treat all of the athletes with more respect?

 

[MacMadame]

Btw, it bothers me every time I see the word "mediocre" describing Miner's skates. (I may even have done it myself.) But I think it's misleading. All of these guys are skating at a very high level. It's just compared to the topmost skaters (the 1% vs. the 10%) that their skating seems weak.

 

[bardtoob]

And I sincerely hope Mark Mitchell doesn't do a number on Ross's head about this like Frank Carroll did with Linda Fratianne.

Mark is not Frank. Clearly, Mark has his own unique set of baggage

 

[aftershocks]

And you're one to talk about people not surmising how someone is feeling: May I quote??? " Why would they [the young athletes] want to come back to the rink? You can bet that many parents of skaters are asking themselves that question too." Somehow I doubt you ran a survey for your "data" here about skating parents...

There are skating parents on FSU, some of whom have already expressed how they are feeling about this situation. And I repeated what Mark has asked, because I think it's a valid question that has resonated with others here, including some parents of skaters. I also included myself in my suggestion to not overly 'surmise or presume.'

No, I haven't conducted a survey, but maybe it might have been helpful if USFS had already conducted a number of surveys.

You sound like you were either on the selection committee or you know Sam Auxier, or you are Sam Auxier. And you are the one who's lashing out and continuing to make angry presumptions. Clearly from the article in Forbes, where Auxier is quoted, USFS is now considering not announcing a decision in the middle of Nationals, with other events still to be competed. That would have been a wiser way of handling a tough decision (as I mentioned earlier), but it's too late now. Still, the important thing is what, if anything, is being learned. Unfortunately, it's attitudes like yours (particularly if you are connected in some way with USFS) that seem to demonstrate nothing is being learned by TPTB.

You keep going back to 'the criteria' being set well in advance, which means you aren't really understanding what's been thoughtfully expressed by some posters in this thread. This particular criteria is somewhat vague and has never strictly been applied before. Again, were any surveys conducted, were coaches consulted, were skaters and parents asked for their input? Did they spell out precisely how the criteria was determined and how it would be applied? Did they account for a variety of podium scenarios and outcomes that might complicate application of the criteria, or possibly confuse athletes, fans, coaches, and the general public? In this thread, we don't all feel the same way about everything, but there are some people here who are being more thoughtful and less accusatory and less presumptuous.

 

[Yazmeen]

aftershocks: I'm not going to argue with you any more; it's not worth it. But for the record, I'm a physician, now a medical educator and writer, and a low level adult skater who just turned 60. I'm not on the selection committee, I don't know a single officer in USFS much less Sam Auxier (frankly, I didn't even know who the USFS President was until this year). The closest I come to anyone "major" in USFS is that my main coach is one-half of a championship-level ice dance team. And I think you're at least as high on the list as I am on presumptions and accusations even though we're not on the same side in this issue. So let's just give it a rest, shall we? At least I will, with you. Have a good weekend.

 

[Vagabond]

Btw, it bothers me every time I see the word "mediocre" describing Miner's skates. (I may even have done it myself.) But I think it's misleading. All of these guys are skating at a very high level. It's just compared to the topmost skaters (the 1% vs. the 10%) that their skating seems weak.

Miner's actual skating is superb. He hasn't always been able to execute his jumps, and I believe that the salchow is the only quadruple he has ever attempted in competition, but, man, does he know how to move his blades!

 

[aftershocks]

Thanks @Yazmeen, emotions are indeed high. Several of your earlier comments did seem as if they are being voiced by a USFS decision-maker. But okay, I can see that you feel as deeply about this as everyone else here, and it's easy to become upset and lash out. I'm not lashing out at other posters, I'm simply responding to comments I disagree with in as thoughtful a way as possible. I am lashing out at USFS, but also in a reasoned and thoughtful way. I'm also offering suggestions, and I'm posing questions that it does seem are resonating with at least some other fans (some of whom are parents of skaters).

And Ross's character was NOT underestimated or attacked in a few careless words... Sorry that it came off to you as diminishing him, but that was not it's intent. If they had not done that, everyone would be screaming (and you especially would likely be writing encyclopedic volumes) about how unfair it was that they didn't explain WHY they made the decision.

Some of the problems in handling the situation obviously could have been lessened with advance preparation and understanding. I have not said that the dismissive view of Ross in the presser was intentional. It appears they simply did not give the human aspects much thought. And there was a lack of being prepared to answer tough questions. They rushed the decision and they rushed the announcement. Sure they needed to explain what criteria they looked at. But to be honest, they knew in advance they wanted Adam on the team. So realistically, the selection was between Ross & Vincent. So why the need to keep pretending (particularly to the media) as if the selection was between Adam & Ross? Part of the problem is the insular politics and lack of transparency, as well as taking things for granted, and expecting everyone to go along to get along.

In the presser, Auxier threw out some backhanded compliments to Ross, and then he simply threw Ross under the bus. I feel that could have been handled much more professionally and respectfully. To make matters worse, everyone is giving side-eye (for good reason) to USFS' decision to make Ross second alternate to Worlds behind Jason Brown. Assigning Ross as second alternate to Worlds further demonstrates USFS' lack of sensitivity and perspective. They may as well have admitted they do not want Ross at any important major competition. They can't see the advantages to the Olympic team and to the skating community in general, of including Ross as an Olympian, and then simply giving the talented Vincent a chance to gain further experience and work out his UR issues at 4CCs and Worlds this season. Vincent has many opportunities ahead of him, skate gods willing. And Worlds is an excellent opportunity for Vincent to help himself and U.S. men for the future.

The team event at the Olympics most likely will include Nathan and Adam realistically, although it hasn't yet been decided. USFS may be taking a chance if Vincent is assigned to the team event and he has similar issues that he's had all season with landing clean quads. His quad lutz/triple is gorgeous, but he obviously still needs more time to work through his other jump landings. I wouldn't underestimate what might be possible for any athlete. But going on the basis of USFS' own BOW criteria and Vincent's actual competition performances this season, he is trying hard to prove he has a solid arsenal of quads. Still, he's not fully there yet. With maturity, Vincent will also develop more power and speed.

 

[julieann]

You are talking about world champions and Olympic champions and the top of the sport. They should get special consideration and treatment. Medvedeva is getting special treatment. Rippon is not equal to Medvedeva or savchenko and massot! Rippon doesn’t deserve special treatment. I do not believe only nationals matter! But between 2 journeyman who cares about who is a little better.

Rippon the best man for the job? What’s the job? 10th place? Miner can get 10th place. You are not talking about a real contender here!

You can’t be serious with these “nothing stopped...” comments. You don’t know the training or financial situations of skaters that may demand they schedule their season for nationals. Because they have to work a lot in the summer! Sure people who can train all summer can be good very early in the season and build up steam but you must consider the skaters who coach or do other jobs to make money to pay for ice time and all associated preparation for nationals.

Of course Adam deserve special treatment, he's 50 points ahead Ross in the season's best scores. He also has a better record from not only this year but last year. It's not the selection committee's fault that Miner doesn't have enough money to skate or has to work during the summer, they're going to send the best people who have the chance to score the most, the three men they selected are it, Miner isn't. This isn't a sport where they allow handicaps, if Miner didn't peak until nationals, it's too late.

 

[becca]

I also agree you cannot at all compare Trankov and Tatiana to Rippon! It is a ridiculous comparison.

The problem I have with Body of work is it adversely affects younger skaters. How is Zhou suppose to get body of work if he is constantly dropped. One must realize he is attempting difficult content and is likely to be less consistent early on. Getting opportunities at Worlds helps confidence.

The problem I have with sending Rippon is he is not a medal contendor the best he will likely do is 8th. As for the team event he is likely to do the long where the worst he could do is fifth. Zhous free is within a point of his and has a higher ceiling. So Rippon might place 8th and Miner 12th. Why is this the end of the world and worth messing with Nationals. The only time I see this matters is Worlds so k maybe send Rippon not Miner to Worlds.

To me body of work should yes be considered but only for skaters that are proven medal contendors. It should be open season for everyone else. So that if someone new comes up who CAN compete or someone really improves you can take them.

 

[caseyedwards]

Of course Adam deserve special treatment, he's 50 points ahead Ross in the season's best scores. He also has a better record from not only this year but last year. It's not the selection committee's fault that Miner doesn't have enough money to skate or has to work during the summer, they're going to send the best people who have the chance to score the most, the three men they selected are it, Miner isn't. This isn't a sport where they allow handicaps, if Miner didn't peak until nationals, it's too late.

It is a sport where they allow handicaps! Isn’t rippon going to the Olympics despite his nationals performance? Handicaps are a huge part of Figure skating selections and i agree they should be for the best in the worlds not the rippons. Miner beat rippon at nats and he deserves to go to olympics because rippon isn’t some kind of Medvedeva like you think he is!

 

[aftershocks]

... Adam or Vincent win an Olympic or world medal....and/or help USA finish higher than bronze then we can probably say this ended up being worth it.

I agree with most of your reflections, but I just want to point out that realistically USFS wanted Adam on the team anyway. The decision was really between Ross and Vincent. Coming back strong from his injury, Adam has had a very good season, and he's immensely popular too. He performed off the charts in his Nationals sp, and very decently in his fp, aside from the fluke final two jump issues. Adam rarely pops jumps, so it must have been related (as he mentioned) to some discomfort with his boot after he fell on the opening quad attempt. As well, it looked like Adam's blade got stuck in the ice on the second to last jump, and then he failed to regroup for the final jump.

We shall see what happens re the team event assignments, but since the Olympic team decision was really between Ross and Vincent (and neither would factor as the third man, in the team event), what happens in the team event would not really be a factor in the selection process (Adam was always going to be on the team, unless he completely tanked at Nationals). That's another reason for Ross to have been selected for the Olympics, while sending Vincent to 4CCs and Worlds. Anything is possible, of course, but realistically Nathan is the only U.S. man who has a good chance to medal in the singles event.

With the huge depth in the world of men's figure skating, and with the quad fire power of the top men, a young skater such as Vincent, in his first senior season will have a harder time medaling in singles at the Olympics, unless a lot of unforeseen situations happen, which is unlikely. I know that Boyang Jin grabbed bronze at Worlds two years in a row, but he was the first to land quad-lutz/triple and he was wielding four quads at a time when Hanyu and Javi were still trying to go clean with three. So the judges overlooked Boyang's youth and his need to further develop his presentation and skating skills. I doubt that will happen for Vincent at the Olympics, particularly with Nathan heading the U.S. team. Of course, we don't know for sure what will happen, so that's why we watch.

 

[Sylvia]

The decision was really between Ross and Vincent.

If the decision was really between these 2 (your speculation), then why was Ross made 2nd alternate?

 

[Willin]

Miner's actual skating is superb. He hasn't always been able to execute his jumps, and I believe that the salchow is the only quadruple he has ever attempted in competition, but, man, does he know how to move his blades!

And his transitions! In the SP in particular they were so memorable and insanely difficult! The butterfly jump transition and the three back-to-back spread eagles into the 3Lz were some of the coolest transitions I'd ever seen, not to mention the best choreographed.

One of the things they emphasize for IJS is that elements shouldn't be telegraphed - they should fit seamlessly into the program with bonus points added for an element so well transitioned to that it was unexpected. Considering how many spread eagles go into Axels (and how few skaters can do them in both directions), I was shocked to see that transition into such a good 3Lz. The butterfly jump into the flying sit was also really unexpected, innovative, and insanely difficult. I remember those around me were gasping in surprise when they saw the spin because they were just expecting it to be another butterfly jump.

 

[Anita18]

Minor point I guess, but I feel this is a very sanguine view of the situation.

We know from interviews with former athletes that many still struggle to deal with Olympic disappointments for a long, long time after the actual event. Sasha Cohen talked about it in an article last year. She has Olympic silver, but still is unhappy with, and bothered by, her performance in Torino, even 10+ years later.

I don't think this is something that will just "pass" for Ross. He's spent his whole life in figure skating. This is going to sting for a very long time. I think Mark Mitchell's reaction to what went down in San Jose tells the tale. It's clear that the disappointment of being left off the 1992 team hasn't just "passed" for Mark either. It still hurts.

As to Ross's expectations going into Nationals, I'm sure that he was not unaware of the whole tier criteria thing. But he is an older skater who came up during the years when USFSA was pretty closely following top 3 = the team, so probably on some emotional level, he still had the feeling that top 3 might be enough. Because for many years, it was. Now maybe, he didn't have as realistic a view of it as he could have. But, as someone else just said, skaters arguably have to think optimistically, or they probably couldn't even keep on doing this sport.

That's the tragic truth about all competitive things - not everyone who competes will find themselves the top echelon. Maybe 0.5%, if that? Few will even make a living off of it.

That's why I find Mark's remark "Why even go back to the rink?" to be very limiting. Competition is not life. Even if you win everything under the sun and retire, you'll still need to find something to do with the rest of your life.

But what do I know? I don't have a competitive bone in my body despite being raised by a high-achieving culture. Never had the taste for it. I've never even tested piano levels even though I would probably be pretty high in it, given the pieces I could play well. Just don't see the point. I was over the moon when I graduated school and wouldn't be graded on anything anymore.

I appreciate seeing excellence, and the human drive to always be better. It's inspiring to see people push themselves. But nobody can stay at the top forever. I hope Ross and others who have been disappointed by sports or Olympic selections can find their way. But it's a road every competitor will have to walk down, whether we try to coddle and protect them, or not.

 

[Skittl1321]

If the decision was really between these 2 (your speculation), then why was Ross made 2nd alternate?

I don't know who the decision was really between, but I think it more likely it came down to Adam vs. Vincent, then Ross vs. Vincent, then Jason vs. Vincent, then Ross vs. Jason.

I know Auxlier said they voted 11:1, but my guess is there were lots of votes and lots of discussions.

 

[julieann]

It is a sport where they allow handicaps! Isn’t rippon going to the Olympics despite his nationals performance? Handicaps are a huge part of Figure skating selections and i agree they should be for the best in the worlds not the rippons. Miner beat rippon at nats and he deserves to go to olympics because rippon isn’t some kind of Medvedeva like you think he is!

You can think Miner deserves to go all you want, the selection criteria disagrees with you. I never said Rippon was Medvedeva, I was merely pointing out that Nationals isn't all the selection committee looks at. And no, there are not handicaps in figure skating, the selection committee doesn't say, "Ross did really good but he didn't have a chance to get better scores early in the year because he had a summer job, or he couldn't afford ice time." You go out on the ice you skate what you skate you get the score that you get if it's not good enough then it's not good enough. Rippon has more than proven himself in the international standings as you can see if you choose to, Miner hasn't. I can only say it so many times you're either going to look at the facts of you're not.

 

[misskarne]

Come on - you're entering caseyedwards territory with this particular beaten and dead horse here. Surely you're better than that?

Just attempting to purge my soul of the bitterness and irritation that the skaters who have done the hard yards and worked on their technique to rotate are effectively punished when skaters like Zhou are given huge scores. Bitter and unhappy that Max went back and reworked his whole quad toe technique - by himself, by video analysis - and didn't just throw it out there before it was ready, but worked until it was clean, when apparently, what he should have been doing is just trying every quad even if it was UR, if we go by the Zhou example (or the Rippon example).

Also, mildly pissed off that people go berko crazy when Jason under-rotates, but Zhou under-rotating is apparently okay?

One of the heartbreaking things about this sport is that there are so few opportunities at the very top.

If competing at (let alone medaling at or winning) the Olympics is the definition of a happy ending, then most skaters are not going to get that happy ending.

If there are more worthy skaters than there are Olympic opportunities available, then some worthy skaters will be left off the team.

That isn't anybody's fault, it just is.

On this note, I hope the people who are hyper-focused on Ross do acknowledge that he is not the only skater with a right to be heartbroken after Nationals, and that his teammates at 4CC will be just as heartbroken as he is, if not more because they were actually in the conversation prior to Nationals and both had a realistic shot on BOW.

Because it's an important "dead horse" to beat. Even with the URs/downgrades he has a higher BV than Ross and the other men who rely on clean triples (his BV with 3 UR quads was 97.49, though TES was only 98.47 due to -GOE as opposed to Ross's 82.91/96), so by BV and international scores Vincent deserved the team over Ross. Vincent's BV/TES at Nationals was 97.49 and 98.47 despite -GOE, 3 URs, and a downgrad; Ross's BV/TES at Nationals was 82.91/96.16 with NO URs/Downgrads and only one very slight -GOE. That means even with great GOE and no penalties in calling, Ross still couldn't overcome Vincent's TES. I think that says more about the value of quads than it does anything else...

This is so not my point. Also, Zhou had three UR and one << quads (and probably got lucky that both triple Axels were called clean).

I mean, going on this logic, Max should have just thrown in the 4Lo and 4Lz regardless of whether he was going to rotate them or not, since hey! points! Maybe he should have thrown in the 4A for fun. Doesn't matter if you rotate, right?

 

[MacMadame]

I know Auxlier said they voted 11:1, but my guess is there were lots of votes and lots of discussions.

I want to know who the 1 is.

 

[misskarne]

I want to know who the 1 is.

Ross' mother.

 

[caseyedwards]

You can think Miner deserves to go all you want, the selection criteria disagrees with you. I never said Rippon was Medvedeva, I was merely pointing out that Nationals isn't all the selection committee looks at. And no, there are not handicaps in figure skating, the selection committee doesn't say, "Ross did really good but he didn't have a chance to get better scores early in the year because he had a summer job, or he couldn't afford ice time." You go out on the ice you skate what you skate you get the score that you get if it's not good enough then it's not good enough. Rippon has more than proven himself in the international standings as you can see if you choose to, Miner hasn't. I can only say it so many times you're either going to look at the facts of you're not.

He didn’t prove himself in the nationals and his international results aren’t the most spectacular anyway! There’s no reason for rippon to be going to the Olympics when he was so bad at nationals and his international rep is just quadless journeyman. The USFS said nothing in their criteria has an official weighting anyway. It’s all opinions and politics.

 

[aftershocks]

If the decision was really between these 2 (your speculation), then why was Ross made 2nd alternate?

It's pretty obvious that USFS was expecting Nathan, Adam and Jason to make the Olympic team, particularly after the season and their appearances at GPF. Even some of Auxier's comments at the presser suggested those were the preferred athletes. Obviously Vincent was also on the short list. I don't think that's speculation either. However, Vincent did not perform well on the GP. This has been a topic of discussion in threads here, due to the BOW criteria. So by the end of the year, after GPF, it has been a given (however speculative in your view) that Nathan, Adam and Jason were front-runners for the Olympic team, with Vincent and his quads an outside threat, particularly for Jason. With Jason under-performing in the fp at Nationals, Vincent was in an excellent position. During the fp at Nationals, it was expected that Adam and Jason would move ahead of Ross and Vincent. Obviously they did not. So, the unexpected factors are clearly Ross' two clean performances, as well as Jason faltering and Adam having those miscues on his final two jumps.

What's speculative about the fact that USFS was going to put Adam on the Olympic team unless he badly tanked at Nationals? Adam came back very strong from his foot injury, and he is highly regarded by fans (aside from caseyedwards ) and by USFS members. Plus, he has an excellent BOW over the past three years, despite not having mastered quads. In any case, I believe Adam is largely responsible for the fact that quad lutz attempts became more popular. But unfortunately, he did not become the first to land one cleanly in competition.

Ross skated very well at Nationals and he earned second place (as Adam and Jason did not do as well as expected). Being assigned as second alternate to Worlds is clearly a dismissive consolation prize for Ross, but a courtesy nonetheless. In the event that Adam does not go to Worlds after the Olympics (which is a possibility since he is most likely retiring post-season), the committee clearly prefers to send Jason, in the apparent hope he will have worked out his technical malaise by then. If it's still necessary to spell it out for you, Nathan, Ross and Vincent are top three medalists at Nationals. Normally, that's who would have been sent to the Olympics. But USFS already knew they wished to ensure who went to the Olympics. And we do know that Adam was a front-runner behind Nathan by the end of GPF. That's not a mystery, nor is it speculative. Adam did not perform woefully at Nationals, so he was going to be on the Olympic team. It would have been shocking had Adam not been selected for the Olympic team. Therefore, the choice came down to Ross vs Vincent, since Jason had faltered badly. And we already know that Vincent was on the short list, and coming on strong as the Junior World champ with multiple quad attempts.

Auxier stressed that they are concerned about medal prospects, but only Nathan has a realistic chance at a singles medal for the men at both Olympics and Worlds (and reasonably neither Vincent nor Ross as a third U.S. man would factor into the team event). Instead of assigning Ross second alternate to Worlds, IMO it would have made more sense to send Ross to the Olympics as an inspirational team member, which he earned through his Nationals performances. Then make Grant and Jason first and second alternates to Worlds, and send Vincent to 4CCs and Worlds. But you know, it is what it is. And what will be, will be.

 

[Skittl1321]

Ross' mother.

No, then Adam wouldn't be going. He said it himself.

 

[Aerobicidal]

If it's still necessary to spell it out for you, Nathan, Ross and Vincent are top three medalists at Nationals.

Of all the things that have shocked me while reading (parts of) this thread, the fact that this quote is directed at Sylvia takes the cake.

 

[VGThuy]

Just attempting to purge my soul of the bitterness and irritation that the skaters who have done the hard yards and worked on their technique to rotate are effectively punished when skaters like Zhou are given huge scores. Bitter and unhappy that Max went back and reworked his whole quad toe technique - by himself, by video analysis - and didn't just throw it out there before it was ready, but worked until it was clean, when apparently, what he should have been doing is just trying every quad even if it was UR, if we go by the Zhou example (or the Rippon example).

If it makes you feel any better, I think people have heard your point loud and clear and acknowledge it. I hope that helps with the "purging of the bitterness and irritation" against Vincent and other skaters who got in Max's way.

 

[Skittl1321]

Auxier stressed that they are concerned about medal prospects, but only Nathan has a realistic chance at a singles medal for the men at both Olympics and Worlds (and reasonably neither Vincent nor Ross as a third U.S. man would factor into the team event). Instead of assigning Ross second alternate to Worlds, IMO it would have made more sense to send Ross to the Olympics as an inspirational team member, which he earned through his Nationals performances. Then make Grant and Jason first and second alternates to Worlds, and send Vincent to 4CCs and Worlds. But you know, it is what it is. And what will be, will be.

Isn't there concern about the team event too though? USA isn't guaranteed the bronze I don't think. Adam is a stronger international skater, so if he is needed there (I don't know if he is)- he is better to fill in.

As for "which he earned for his nationals performance"- nationals cannot be an Olympic trial, USFSA won't pay for the rights to call it that. So a nationals performance CAN'T on its own earn a place. Even if they do send the podium, they can't write into the rulebook that nationals determines the Olympic team, so it has to be justified another way. Maybe in years long ago USOC wasn't charging for the right to use the name, or maybe they weren't enforcing it, or maybe even when they sent the podium they had something else in the rulebook and always just justified the podium, I don't know. But he didn't earn anything other than a silver medal (and admiration for an awesome performance) with his skate at nationals.

That said- I do think sending an "inspirational" skater to Olympics makes way more sense. It is essentially both the highest stake for a skater, and also the most meaningless competition. Worlds placements have a lasting effect, poor ones can take years to overcome. Olympics is one and done and effects nothing.

 

[Vagabond]

No, then Adam wouldn't be going. He said it himself.

Well, it clearly wasn't Jason's mother or Vincent's mother.

 

[misskarne]

If it makes you feel any better, I think people have heard your point loud and clear and acknowledge it. I hope that helps with the "purging of the bitterness and irritation" against Vincent and other skaters who got in Max's way.

Do you think it is right that a skater can rack up a huge score by not rotating? Zhou's sloppy, splat-filled, under-rotated free skate at Cup of China scored nearly the same as Max's almost-clean free skate there. Is that not a mark against the scoring system or against how it's implemented?

 

[aftershocks]

Of all the things that have shocked me while reading (parts of) this thread, the fact that this quote is directed at Sylvia takes the cake.

Oh my, I must hurry and delete that bit of snark toward @Sylvia. But too late thanks to you @Aerobicidal. So sorry Sylvia. You are such a great and valuable fan, a great contributor to figure skating, and a diligent sharer of important news around here. I'm just not sure exactly what you mean by your question. I tried my best to respond.

I don't think it's speculative who USFS preferred to be on the Olympic team for the men. Of course, the selection committee did not have to put Adam on the team. But it seems to me that even Adam knew they would (even though he might have experienced some nerves). There's a lot going on here, as usual. Figure skating is a small world, with lots of gossip, insider knowledge and . You've always been someone who has helped to separate wheat from chaff Sylvia. So it seems you feel its speculative that Adam was going to be on the Olympic team due to his BOW and his relatively decent Nationals showing?

Anyway, without a doubt Adam is on the team, in no small measure, due to his hard work, self-belief, and international results (two fluke popped jumps at the finish line notwithstanding):
http://www.latimes.com/sports/olympics/la-sp-olympics-rippon-elliott-20180110-story.html
https://www.yahoo.com/news/adam-rippon-first-openly-gay-221838116.html
https://www.yahoo.com/news/olympic-figure-skater-adam-rippon-153821935.html