Olympic champ Zagitova challenges US skater after criticism

[babayaga]

I think Alina can take of herself against a competitor who whined about her PCS marks that left her off her own Olympic team.

That said, Alina is amazing in many technical areas like transitions, projection to the audience. I don't think her lines are that good and she does not hold them. They need to be held! Her crossovers are not very efficient either, she breaks at the waist a lot (and with the tutu it's not a good look). She doesn't get any flow out of her jumps, yet receives +3 GOEs all the time. Yes, they are high, but that's only one part of the features.

I would have given the win to Osmond, hands down. Everything was on, jumps are big, with flow and such great ease in her skating. But the OAR finally got an OGM at Pyeongchang...

Just wanted to respond to the bolded part: I think Alina has about 5 features on her jumps even without the flow. I counted: height and distance, effortless, goes well with music accents, additional feature like arms over her head, difficult entry or/end difficult exits. So even though flow is not that great, she has enough for +2/+3 most of the time.

 

[ToFarAwayTimes]

Neither Ashley nor Christine seem to know how the ISU defines balance.

The ISU thinks it means more Russian.

 

[bardtoob]

IceAlisha,
Where is the hypothetical aspect?

It's IceAlisa, not IceAlisha

You'll know when it's serious when she calls you IceFelicia

 

[Nadya]

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure

She really does bother you, you poor thing

You aren't preventing anything. Or curing.

 

[IceAlisa]

You aren't preventing anything. Or curing.

you have a keen eye for the obvious, of course I am not

You'll know when it's serious when she calls you IceFelcia

 

[meggonzo]

IceAlisa, You believe Ashley could have placed higher than 5th, given the people who did place 1-4? Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion but it seems a bit pie-in-the-sky to me. Has she ever performed at that level, previously? You know it is possible that a monkey can be born with kelly green fur all over his body due to a random genetic mutation. What is the likelihood that such will actually happen?

5th is quite generous. I think she probably would have been closer to 10th.

 

[brennele]

I stand corrected on the issue of Ashley Wagner stating that her 2014 Sochi score was unduly low due to her support of gay rights. For the record, Ashley did NOT make that statement. Instead, this time, it was "the judging system" which she blamed. In 2014, she accused the judges of giving her an unfairly low score. Ashley lambasted the judges stating that she had been "gypped." https://www.bustle.com/articles/162...about-sochi-judges-are-bad-for-figure-skating.

The point being that Ashley always blames her low performance on someone or something other than herself. At the time of the 2014 "blaming statement," Ashley had already, as the article states, garnered a reputation for being a complainer. That had been my perception of her, as well, from the little I saw or followed of the 2014 Olympics. Seemed to me that where Ashley was concerned, if it was not one thing (being blamed) it was another. Based on what I read in the article, it seems others had that impression as well. She has managed to garner a rather "sour grapes" reputation which played out again in 2018 when she felt, yet again, she was judged unfairly. Less blaming of other people and more taking responsibility for her own actions would go a long way in improving this woman's credibility.

 

[IceAlisa]

Yes, Ashley is the horrible, terrible, no good, very bad person. Are we done here? Or do you have any more moralizing to bless us with? I don't follow her comments as obsessively as you do (really, get a life) but her point about PCS scores being unusually low at 2018 Nationals is a valid one, considering it's Nationals.

But don't let facts keep you from your righteous indignation.

 

[artsciboy]

I stand corrected on the issue of Ashley Wagner stating that her 2014 Sochi score was unduly low due to her support of gay rights. For the record, Ashley did NOT make that statement. Instead, this time, it was "the judging system" which she blamed. In 2014, she accused the judges of giving her an unfairly low score. Ashley lambasted the judges stating that she had been "gypped." https://www.bustle.com/articles/162...about-sochi-judges-are-bad-for-figure-skating.

The point being that Ashley always blames her low performance on someone or something other than herself. At the time of the 2014 "blaming statement," Ashley had already, as the article states, garnered a reputation for being a complainer. That had been my perception of her, as well, from the little I saw or followed of the 2014 Olympics. Seemed to me that where Ashley was concerned, if it was not one thing (being blamed) it was another. Based on what I read in the article, it seems others had that impression as well. She has managed to garner a rather "sour grapes" reputation which played out again in 2018 when she felt, yet again, she was judged unfairly. Less blaming of other people and more taking responsibility for her own actions would go a long way in improving this woman's credibility.

Perhaps you should focus on finding the source of Ashley's quotes and the context of her comments to support your argument rather than pointing to a Bustle commentary featuring an opinion that supports your own.

At the end of the day, Ashley has always been strong enough to point out what many fans have identified as being wrong with the judging system, including regarding the issue of backloading. Good for her and the time is ripe for changes to the judging system as we near the end of the Olympic season.

 

[brennele]

Ice Alisa, seems to me we are getting a bit emotional here. Perhaps you should take a bit of a break to get a grip on yourself. Men are always accusing women of being too emotional and thus not capable of being in charge. It does not help these perceptions when in the middle of a debate you get all emotional and bent out of shape on a public website. It only feeds into stereotypes of females. Compare your response to the one which follows - level headed and filled with facts. Fact is , Ashley is not someone I admire and I don't like either whiners or complainers. Perhaps when she is finished with the competitive portion of her skating career, she can become active in administration aspects and bring about changes............that is assuming she has any credibility left and does not antagonize everyone along the way such that no one will hire her.

 

[IceAlisa]

Ice Alisa, seems to me we are getting a bit emotional here. Perhaps you should take a bit of a break to get a grip on yourself. Men are always accusing women of being too emotional and thus not capable of being in charge. It does not help these perceptions when in the middle of a debate you get all emotional and bent out of shape on a public website. It only feeds into stereotypes of females. Compare your response to the one which follows - level headed and filled with facts. Fact is , Ashley is not someone I admire and I don't like either whiners or complainers. Perhaps when she is finished with the competitive portion of her skating career, she can become active in administration aspects and bring about changes............that is assuming she has any credibility left and does not antagonize everyone along the way such that no one will hire her.

On second thought, keep on going. For someone who dislikes a complainer you sure complain a lot. And you can't stop I am curious to see how deep a hole you can dig yourself into.

 

[brennele]

Seems to me that you are the one digging into a hole - and an emotional one at that (replete with emoticons i.e. emotional icons)

 

[overedge]

Because I don't perform for the pleasure of the viewing public, and therefore have the luxury of not caring what anyone thinks.

You missed the point. I am not denying her "the right" to her opinion - how can I? I'm saying it was bad form for her to express it in this fashion.

Congratulations on a Level 4 and +3 GOE job of not addressing the point that was raised.

 

[IceAlisa]

Seems to me that you are the one digging into a hole - and an emotional one at that (replete with emoticons i.e. emotional icons)

You are awfully good at perseverating but not very imaginative. Thank you for clarifying what emoticons are, I had no idea! Here are some more for you

 

[brennele]

Perhaps you could send me some emoji which are more "imaginative."

 

[IceAlisa]

Perhaps you could send me some emoji which are more "imaginative."

Of course!

 

[misskarne]

From Alina’s interview^
https://russian.rt.com/sport/article/486647-zagitova-chempionka-olimpiada-intervyu
Q: You probably heard what Ashley Wagner said about your free program.
A:Yes, I saw it somewhere on social media. I can say her words only motivated me, made me want to prove her wrong. But of course you cannot prove anything to people like her. Let her try and skate an identical program at the Olympic Games, it will be fun to watch, but I will not comment afterwards.
Q: Do you think current system favors younger skaters due to their physical abilities?
A:Yes, figure skating is progressing very quickly these days. There is already a queue of junior skaters behind me. A couple years from now, there will be a new generation of skaters, then another one. There will be a day when I will start thinking like Wagner and other critics. There are already girls in our group who do quads. But I will do my best to stay on top as long as I can.

I actually think this is a rather classy and mature response for a 15 year old. (Also, if people don't like it, ask yourselves then: why is Ashley allowed to be "sassy" and Alina isn't?) I'm admiring Alina more and more all the time.

As for what Ashley said, I have no doubt she meant it as a snipe. She did it to Boyang too - I think the tweet was somewhere along the lines of "crossovers shouldn't win an Olympic medal" which I thought was more than a touch hypocritical coming from her and considering how much everyone was fawning over Chen's performance at that moment...

 

[Frau Muller]

No, she was not doing commentary. She was there to promote Toyota.

Right. She was working the Toyota hospitality booth. ROTFL!

 

[Frau Muller]

A woman doing it, not a child. so theres that. If Alina did it Id feel like Id need to cover my eyes.

Did you see Alina’s Afro Blue exhibition in the tiger unitard? Alina may be 15, but she has a very mature style and womanly figure when packaged a different way.

 

[Frau Muller]

I think the people who criticize Ashley - and I am one of them - do not necessarily criticize her skating. Mostly, they criticize her whining and declaring this, that and the other thing is "unfair." It seems that "unfair" is one of Ashley's favorite words. The people in charge let her go to the Olympics in 2014 in lieu of the woman who finished ahead of her in an effort to be fair to her. They took into consideration her "whole body of work" and placed her ahead of another skater. How much more of a break could they possibly give her - they sent her out of turn. She did not medal at the Olympics and she then says it was because of her support of the gay community. Give me a break. Such is NOT why Ashley did not medal. No one even cares about gays issues as they once did. For most people, it is now a non-issue. Virtually no one is even interested in someone's sexual orientation. What difference does it make? The reason Ashley did not medal is very simple. She did not skate as well as the people who did - period. It is beyond the pale for Ashley to suggest that her support of the gay community is why she did not win a medal. How absurd can she really get?

Now, along comes the 2018 Olympics and apparently the same thing happened again; Ashley placed 4th in the tryouts. This time it would have been ridiculous to send her - again! - in lieu of the girl they did send. I mean you can pull this sort of thing off once but twice would be out of the question. Shortly thereafter, we hear that Ashley is "absolutely furious." She is accusing the panel - once again - of judging her "unfairly." Once again, Ashley is a martyr and a victim. Once again, it is not her fault but rather that what happened to her is the fault of someone else. If Ashley and her fans wish for her to be taken seriously, Ashley needs to cut out all the whining, excuse-making, and (most of all) accusing everyone of being "unfair" to her. Then, and only then, will people take her comments about other skaters seriously. Otherwise, people just roll there eyes and think "NOW, what is it that Ashley is complaining about; what is it THIS time?"

I look forward to a return to the days when USA figure skaters are known just for their skating, rather than social media comments. Today we have not one but three media whores: Ashley, Adam and Mirai. They’re almost tripping over themselves for title of most outrageous blabber mouth. Sometimes I wonder if it’s all jointly planned?

 

[skatingguy]

I look forward the a return to the days when USA figure skaters are known just for their skating, rather than media comments. Today we have not one but three media whores: Ashley, Adam and Mirai. They’re almost tripping over themselves for title of most outrageous blabber mouth. Sometimes I wonder if it’s all jointly planned?

But without media profile they won't get endorsements. All 3 are getting close to the end of their careers and the media profile can help them get new opportunities post skating.

 

[Frau Muller]

But without media profile they won't get endorsements. All 3 are getting close to the end of their careers and the media profile can help them get new opportunities post skating.

Exactly. Media whores, fighting for endorsement scraps. We should see it for what it is. I remember when true champion skaters like Dorothy Hamill got endorsements and were all over television/media for their natural charm and merits on the ice.

 

[Deleted member 53443]

To me, there are two kind of skaters in this media world (of course there are mixes but still). The ones who can get attention by their skating only because they are the best in the world. And then the ones who who can't, so they descend to twitter picking fights to get headlines. It's mostly publicist-driven BS. I bet my pension that all of the ones in the second group would kill to be in the first. And none of the Zagitovas, Medvedevas and Hanyus in the first group would like to be in the second.

In my view, the picking on Zagitova's artistry is overblown and smells of jealousy. She won the gold deservedly with a classical ballerina style without rocking her shoulders and looking sassy, and for me it was honest, artistic and beautiful to watch.

 

[berthesghost]

Exactly. Media whores, fighting for endorsement scraps. We should see it for what it is. I remember when true champion skaters like Dorothy Hamill got endorsements and were all over television/media for their natural charm and merits on the ice.

Hamil? The same Hamil who’s coach trashed her in the media as greedy? Look, I get that ever since the isu let skater earn $ while still eligible the snobs who follow the sport have been using this elitist standard to trash working class skaters they don’t like from Kerrigan through Kwan right up to the restaurant owner’s daughter and the school teacher’s kid who doesn’t realized she should learn her place and just shill reasonably priced economy cars for the masses. But the dinosaurs aren’t winning and Tara and johnny’s Tsl style commentary not only keeps them their gig but has broken them out to do more general media gigs. The country club is more irrelevant than ever.

 

[skatingguy]

Exactly. Media whores, fighting for endorsement scraps. We should see it for what it is. I remember when true champion skaters like Dorothy Hamill got endorsements and were all over television/media for their natural charm and merits on the ice.

Well that wasn't quite what I was getting at, but then I think the athletes should do what they have to get the endorsements. In Hamill's time figure skating had a special place in the Winter Olympics. That's not true anymore and there are so many more athletes fighting for those endorsement opportunities that athletes have to show they can attract attention, particularly on social media, if companies are going to give them endorsements.

 

[Coco]

I actually think this is a rather classy and mature response for a 15 year old. (Also, if people don't like it, ask yourselves then: why is Ashley allowed to be "sassy" and Alina isn't?) I'm admiring Alina more and more all the time.

I feel she's entitled to respond but I think it goes beyond sassy to take pleasure in the thought of watching a fellow skater physically struggle. And honestly, it doesn't even sound like her voice. Lip said that many times she was 'quoted' in the paper but she had never said those things. I hope at least parts of this quote from AZ are one of those cases

 

[IceAlisa]

To be fair, I am used to hearing Zagitova say one thing in an interview and then a lot of “paraphrasing” ensue in the printed version

 

[ToFarAwayTimes]

I feel she's entitled to respond but I think it goes beyond sassy to take pleasure in the thought of watching a fellow skater physically struggle. And honestly, it doesn't even sound like her voice. Lip said that many times she was 'quoted' in the paper but she had never said those things. I hope at least parts of this quote from AZ are one of those cases

For some reason, this made me think of Raising Arizona: The Alina and Eteri Story.

 

[Nadya]

Perhaps you should focus on finding the source of Ashley's quotes and the context of her comments to support your argument rather than pointing to a Bustle commentary featuring an opinion that supports your own.

At the end of the day, Ashley has always been strong enough to point out what many fans have identified as being wrong with the judging system, including regarding the issue of backloading. Good for her and the time is ripe for changes to the judging system as we near the end of the Olympic season.

If the judging system, with all her faults, resulted in Ashley's first place medal, she'd be as happy with it as she could possibly be. It's a bit transparent to lambast a system that leaves you behind.

 

[lala]

You don't forget Alina is a 15 y. o. girl who has not too much media experiences, she was asked by a journalist and probably answered what she heard from his team, coach read from her fans on social media. I find that so ridiculous when you defend Ashley "she didn't attack Alina personally just.... but Alina did" Really? Ashley wrote on social media she knew thousands of people will read it and totally irrelevant that was personally or indirect.