Olympic champ Zagitova challenges US skater after criticism

[Nadya]

Hamil? The same Hamil who’s coach trashed her in the media as greedy? Look, I get that ever since the isu let skater earn $ while still eligible the snobs who follow the sport have been using this elitist standard to trash working class skaters they don’t like from Kerrigan through Kwan right up to the restaurant owner’s daughter and the school teacher’s kid who doesn’t realized she should learn her place and just shill reasonably priced economy cars for the masses. But the dinosaurs aren’t winning and Tara and johnny’s Tsl style commentary not only keeps them their gig but has broken them out to do more general media gigs. The country club is more irrelevant than ever.

Wagner's SES background didn't enter the discussion until you brought it up. Cohen, with all her lily-handed upbringing, received more than enough trashings here. I don't quite know where you come up with that stuff.

She IS shilling economy cars, and damn lucky to have that gig.

Tara and Johnny ARE the country club, silly.

 

[Nadya]

Alina doesn't have strong skating compared to her top competitors. Her ice coverage is very small. She doesn't hold or extend positions. These are things that if she actually did, would drain her stamina more. Since she doesn't do them, she should be getting marked down in components, but alas she does not. Her and her coach and federation simply game the system better.

She's a terrific jumper, don't get me wrong and she should be rewarded for it. I think she'd be a better skater too if she really worked at it, but she doesn't have the incentive to do so I guess.

The rulebook is available to all and sundry.

 

[xxibjt]

Alina was my favorite for the gold and while I don't really care for Ashley's skating, I actually don't mind what Ashley said, because to me she was criticizing the program and not really the skater. Plus Ashley isn't the only one who had something to say about Alina winning the OGM. Lucinda Ruh, who on her FB page criticized her with a harshness that Ashley never showed:

"I have to write a little something on what’s been on my mind from yesterday’s competition. I am so sad to see the world of skating succumb to once again politics and inflation of fake media coverage. I personally think a woman, a woman’s skating should win the Olympic gold medal. Not a junior girl who skates juniorish with an unbalanced program. Kaetlyn Osmond in my opinion should have won the gold but all the judges, media and officials decided long time ago it would be a Russia Russia battle and no matter how anyone skated they wouldn’t let them beat them. Their perception of these two Russians are so distorted. Let the little girls with little jumps and messy programs compete in juniors ... their body in one or two years won’t be able to do what they are doing now so their jumps or program will never look like an Olympic champion should. .. look at Katarina Witt time.. they were all grown women with stories to tell and art to make on the ice! That to me is an Olympic champion. For me Osmond was the best of the night and had the quality of jumps that superseded any back ended jumps and performed a figure skating program that an Olympic Champion should embody. Ravi Walia please share with Kaetlyn too Christine Brennan this might be a great article!!"

https://www.facebook.com/lucinda.ruh.7/posts/10155102471926470?pnref=story

 

[Meoima]

Alina was my favorite for the gold and while I don't really care for Ashley's skating, I actually don't mind what Ashley said, because to me she was criticizing the program and not really the skater. Plus Ashley isn't the only one who had something to say about Alina winning the OGM. Lucinda Ruh, who on her FB page criticized her with a harshness that Ashley never showed:

"I have to write a little something on what’s been on my mind from yesterday’s competition. I am so sad to see the world of skating succumb to once again politics and inflation of fake media coverage. I personally think a woman, a woman’s skating should win the Olympic gold medal. Not a junior girl who skates juniorish with an unbalanced program. Kaetlyn Osmond in my opinion should have won the gold but all the judges, media and officials decided long time ago it would be a Russia Russia battle and no matter how anyone skated they wouldn’t let them beat them. Their perception of these two Russians are so distorted. Let the little girls with little jumps and messy programs compete in juniors ... their body in one or two years won’t be able to do what they are doing now so their jumps or program will never look like an Olympic champion should. .. look at Katarina Witt time.. they were all grown women with stories to tell and art to make on the ice! That to me is an Olympic champion. For me Osmond was the best of the night and had the quality of jumps that superseded any back ended jumps and performed a figure skating program that an Olympic Champion should embody. Ravi Walia please share with Kaetlyn too Christine Brennan this might be a great article!!"

https://www.facebook.com/lucinda.ruh.7/posts/10155102471926470?pnref=story

How about showing this to the judges at Olympics 1998, who chose Tara Lipninski first?

It's ISU who chose junior-ish skating + tiny jumps over maturity in 1998. They have a long history of favoring younger girls with more difficult combos. This is not the first time.

Since last year, some people already predicted Alina would win Olympic if she kept her consistency. And she did. Some people already sensed that. Why ISU do not stop this trend?

It is NOT because these girls are Russian. If they were Americans, the outcome would be the same.

Now we should ask ISU and the judges WHY they always prefer younger girls with harder jump combos. Simple as that.

 

[PRlady]

Alina's jumps are not tiny and her spins are good. The busy Eteri style of lots of unfinished movements bugged me with Lip and it still does. But Alina could be a musical, dramatic skater with time and maturity.

Ashley made the best of iffy jumps and average skating skills with lots of OTT emoting and shimmying. She's certainly allowed to criticize the OGM's program construction along with most of the rest of the world, but given her own deficiencies I'm not surprised at the backlash.

 

[Nadya]

Alina was my favorite for the gold and while I don't really care for Ashley's skating, I actually don't mind what Ashley said, because to me she was criticizing the program and not really the skater. Plus Ashley isn't the only one who had something to say about Alina winning the OGM. Lucinda Ruh, who on her FB page criticized her with a harshness that Ashley never showed:

"I have to write a little something on what’s been on my mind from yesterday’s competition. I am so sad to see the world of skating succumb to once again politics and inflation of fake media coverage. I personally think a woman, a woman’s skating should win the Olympic gold medal. Not a junior girl who skates juniorish with an unbalanced program. Kaetlyn Osmond in my opinion should have won the gold but all the judges, media and officials decided long time ago it would be a Russia Russia battle and no matter how anyone skated they wouldn’t let them beat them. Their perception of these two Russians are so distorted. Let the little girls with little jumps and messy programs compete in juniors ... their body in one or two years won’t be able to do what they are doing now so their jumps or program will never look like an Olympic champion should. .. look at Katarina Witt time.. they were all grown women with stories to tell and art to make on the ice! That to me is an Olympic champion. For me Osmond was the best of the night and had the quality of jumps that superseded any back ended jumps and performed a figure skating program that an Olympic Champion should embody. Ravi Walia please share with Kaetlyn too Christine Brennan this might be a great article!!"

https://www.facebook.com/lucinda.ruh.7/posts/10155102471926470?pnref=story

There were just as many forgettable programs during Katarina Witt's time.

 

[Judy]

There is no point raising this issue now. She played completely by the rules and won by the rules. Complain to ISU, don't criticize a fellow skater. GROW UP.

Absolutely. I do think the ISU needs to change it though. I also don’t like the age (wait until she grows) but that is nothing personal against her. 15 she is just a kid .. with Russia pumping them out. I hope the U.S. doesn’t take this route with kids.

 

[oleada]

Alina's jumps are not tiny and her spins are good. The busy Eteri style of lots of unfinished movements bugged me with Lip and it still does. But Alina could be a musical, dramatic skater with time and maturity.

Ashley made the best of iffy jumps and average skating skills with lots of OTT emoting and shimmying. She's certainly allowed to criticize the OGM's program construction along with most of the rest of the world, but given her own deficiencies I'm not surprised at the backlash.

I also think there’s a history of Ashley making questionable comments that come across as blaming everyone else for deficiencies in her skating. The sonograms comment, her outrage over PCS at nationals, being unimpressed with her Sochi scores, etc. Personally, I don’t have any issues with Ashley’s comments here - she’s entitled to her opinion like everyone else - but that also plays into it.

 

[rfisher]

I hope the U.S. doesn’t take this route with kids.

I don't think that's a problem. Has anybody paid attention to the JGP circuit the last 4 years?

Ashley's comments weren't considered relevant in the US, but apparently the Russian media made a big deal of them after the team event. That's why the reporter asked Alina the question and no doubt, she'd read it on Russian social media and was annoyed. I'm also sure she didn't spend nearly as much time angsting over it as has FSU. She's got her gold medal to play with instead.

 

[just tuned in]

If excuses can be made for Mirai who literally threw another competitor under the bus

Not literally.

 

[Willin]

@WildRose I believe it was during the team event. It should be noted that other than the tweet about the backloading, she was very complimentary, and in later tweets she did say that what Zagitova could do was very impressive.

As for what Ashley said, I have no doubt she meant it as a snipe. She did it to Boyang too - I think the tweet was somewhere along the lines of "crossovers shouldn't win an Olympic medal" which I thought was more than a touch hypocritical coming from her and considering how much everyone was fawning over Chen's performance at that moment...

I doubt it, based on this comment, but did you even read the context? She wasn't criticizing the skaters, she was criticizing the choreography and the rules. She openly admits both that she can't do Alina's backloading and that she uses as many crossovers as Boyang. Other than those comments about choreography and self-deprecation, she was complementary of the skaters themselves.

And Chen's performance was great - it had technical content and artistry. That's why everyone was fawning over it - just like they fawned over Yuzu and Shoma's FS's.

I look forward to a return to the days when USA figure skaters are known just for their skating, rather than social media comments. Today we have not one but three media whores: Ashley, Adam and Mirai. They’re almost tripping over themselves for title of most outrageous blabber mouth. Sometimes I wonder if it’s all jointly planned?

Such a "classy" thing to call someone. Adam hasn't said anything rude about anyone. Ashley and Mirai have had their moments, but they're not "whoring out" for the media. They're being loud, proud, and themselves. If the media likes it in the same way that the Japanese media likes Yuzu or the Russian media likes Zhenya and Alina, fine. That's not the skater's fault - that's the media's fault.

I also don't blame them at all for taking the attention. Unlike in Russia are set for life, American Olympians in non-NCAA sports often retire with no job, no education, and no plan for the future. If the media attention is what gets them the money or career to keep living without putting themselves into a ton of debt or working a minimum wage job, why not capitalize on it? That's exactly what the Japanese skaters do: take the fame from skating and turn into TV personalities or professional performers.

It is NOT because these girls are Russian. If they were Americans, the outcome would be the same.

Now we should ask ISU and the judges WHY they always prefer younger girls with harder jump combos. Simple as that.

This is a very good point. In the US I think this is a more domestic problem than an international one. I think USFS and their judges are so excited at any hope for a future star that they give ridiculous PCS to any skater that skates cleanly at Nationals regardless of their skill on the PCS side. Tessa Hong at Nationals 2017, Bradie's PCS this year, Karen's PCS when she won, Vincent's PCS last year and this year, etc. etc.

Internationally, I think it's most prominent with the Russian skaters because they're the teenagers that look most Juniorish right now, but I agree that a US skater who looked like a Junior could win if she was consistent and did difficult tricks regardless of their artistry. It annoys me - I want to see beautiful, mature skaters like Osmond or Kostner or Kim win, not little jumping beans regardless of Nationality.

 

[Eeyora1]

If people aren’t into what Ashley says. I don’t understand why they don’t just ignore her. I personally don’t like Twitter for skating commentary. It’s a lot easier to take things out of context!

 

[Nadya]

@WildRose I believe it was during the team event. It should be noted that other than the tweet about the backloading, she was very complimentary, and in later tweets she did say that what Zagitova could do was very impressive.


...I also don't blame them at all for taking the attention. Unlike in Russia are set for life, American Olympians in non-NCAA sports often retire with no job, no education, and no plan for the future.

What? How do you people come up with this nonsense? Russian athletes retired from competitive skating have to hustle like everyone else, sink or swim. Stop perpetuating urban legends.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Did you see Alina’s Afro Blue exhibition in the tiger unitard? Alina may be 15, but she has a very mature style and womanly figure when packaged a different way.

lol, Um Yeah, and not sure about people who want to see a 15 yr old do that... Thats what Im talking about.

Id rather Polina's Shirley temple at 18.

 

[overedge]

What? How do you people come up with this nonsense? Russian athletes retired from competitive skating have to hustle like everyone else, sink or swim. Stop perpetuating urban legends.

"Urban legends"? Seriously?

 

[skateboy]

As for what Ashley said, I have no doubt she meant it as a snipe.

No doubt about that. It would be the same as if Jason tweeted a derogatory comment about Yuzu's Olympic FS. How well would that have gone over? (Of course, unlike Ashley, Jason would never do that.)

It's one thing for us skating fans to say whatever we want under an anonymous screen name. It's quite another for an elite skater in the public eye to do the same. Unsportsmanlike and inappropriate.

 

[skateboy]

The other thing to remember is that the 10% bonus rule supposedly applies because a skater is more tired later in their skate. But if you don't do any jumps in the first half, you aren't going to be that tired.

Sorry, but that is not true. Every skater knows that spins are the thing that wear you out in a program, not jumps. Aside from that, constantly pushing through steps and turns is very tiring for the leg muscles. Saving big jumps for the second half is insanely difficult and risky.

 

[Rock2]

A few things here.

While I wouldn't have Alina first, she has no influence over where the judges put her. Also, the judges over the past year have been marking her well so she continued to deliver what the judges told her they want. Attacking her would never be appropriate. Her job is to skate her butt off the best she can and she did that. Respect.

Having said that we have lost sight of what an attack is, a little bit. Questioning the result and how the scoring is applied IMHO *is* appropriate because you're hating on the game, not the player. I wish ISU published even more detail on results, helping us understand how the rulebook requirements were met and why back half loading doesn't impact CH. IJS gave us some transparency to the marking. How I'd still love more.

One of the 5,625,201 reasons I could never be an Olympic champion is that in social media I'd probably be petty af to those coming after me. To Ashley, "B****, get out of my light. Go play with your pewter."

 

[DreamSkates]

If people aren’t into what Ashley says. I don’t understand why they don’t just ignore her. I personally don’t like Twitter for skating commentary. It’s a lot easier to take things out of context!

Because she is considered an elite skater and her words have an impact, be that positive or negative. Never criticize another skater. Wait until after Worlds, then let your voice be known to the ISU, who can make changes.

 

[DreamSkates]

Alina was my favorite for the gold and while I don't really care for Ashley's skating, I actually don't mind what Ashley said, because to me she was criticizing the program and not really the skater. Plus Ashley isn't the only one who had something to say about Alina winning the OGM. Lucinda Ruh, who on her FB page criticized her with a harshness that Ashley never showed:

"I have to write a little something on what’s been on my mind from yesterday’s competition. I am so sad to see the world of skating succumb to once again politics and inflation of fake media coverage. I personally think a woman, a woman’s skating should win the Olympic gold medal. Not a junior girl who skates juniorish with an unbalanced program. Kaetlyn Osmond in my opinion should have won the gold but all the judges, media and officials decided long time ago it would be a Russia Russia battle and no matter how anyone skated they wouldn’t let them beat them. Their perception of these two Russians are so distorted. Let the little girls with little jumps and messy programs compete in juniors ... their body in one or two years won’t be able to do what they are doing now so their jumps or program will never look like an Olympic champion should. .. look at Katarina Witt time.. they were all grown women with stories to tell and art to make on the ice! That to me is an Olympic champion. For me Osmond was the best of the night and had the quality of jumps that superseded any back ended jumps and performed a figure skating program that an Olympic Champion should embody. Ravi Walia please share with Kaetlyn too Christine Brennan this might be a great article!!"

https://www.facebook.com/lucinda.ruh.7/posts/10155102471926470?pnref=story

Once again, putting criticism in the wrong place. Send that to ISU, reach out to coaches. Alina was following what she knew, what her coaches taught, and what the ISU allowed.

 

[Spun Silver]

No doubt about that. It would be the same as if Jason tweeted a derogatory comment about Yuzu's Olympic FS. How well would that have gone over? (Of course, unlike Ashley, Jason would never do that.)

It's one thing for us skating fans to say whatever we want under an anonymous screen name. It's quite another for an elite skater in the public eye to do the same. Unsportsmanlike and inappropriate.

The comparison with Jason says it all. I cannot imagine Jason criticizing another skater or their program on social media.

 

[aftershocks]

Alina's artistry is top-notch. She projects, skates to the music and not through it, holds her lines, has good extension, lots of transitions, etc...

We must be watching two different skaters. That really applies to Satoko or Kaetlyn. Alina rushes through everything, drops a pose without finishing it, on to the next, drops it, rinse repeat, her extensions are out of the plane, look awkward, her lines are broken, her back is hunched and she skates with a lot of upper body movement which tells you her power skating is not so powerful. Her feet are always and forever flexed. The phrase "holds her lines" made me

But the girl can jump and has a cool competitive head. That much is true.

You should really watch the TSL interview with Tom Dickson, one of my all time favorite choreographers, talk about Zagitova.

Exactly @IceAlisa. I love Tom Dickson's aesthetic and his choreography. He also speaks very intelligently on the subject of artistry, musicality, choreographing programs, working with Satoko, and with Matt Savoie, Alexander Johnson, et al. His manleywoman podcast from some years back is very enlightening. Highlights are transcribed on manleywoman's podcast website.

In response to queries from TSL hosts, Tom Dickson had this to say about Zagitova and Medvedeva, along with the observation that they both have talent that needs better nurturing:

"I hate to say it but they both do the same thing, in the same method ... Yes, they have a lot of flavor, but they're not skating to the music. They're not using the rhythm nor dynamic change of the music like Kostner, Miyahara, and Osmond. I actually think Osmond should have won the OGM. Everything Zag/Med do is fleeting and ephemeral. They never hold anything for more than a second-and-a-half. They're rushing...

They need to develop position, direction and flow... In good skating, you get more by doing less. You press from the foot you're on, you don't push to the foot you're going to... [They] need to understand how to interpret music... There's a lack of edge control... They're only doing [what they do] for the points [instead of expressing the music] ... I think Zagitova can be amazing, but I don't know if it will happen in that camp."

Dickson has choreographed for Satoko Miyahara for 7 years. Miyahara also works with Lori Nichol and formerly with Stephane Lambiel, Jeffrey Buttle, et al. Dickson observed this about Miyahara:

"Satoko's nuance has a lot to do with her culture and her personality... Satoko is the Queen of multi-directional skating ... and she doesn't get the credit for that."

 

[lala]

According to some posters Zagitova can write on the Twitter: "I really don't understand why the judges didn't call Wagner URs, we could see without slow motion." She wouldn't attack Ashley just the judges......

 

[Nadya]

Exactly @IceAlisa. I love Tom Dickson's aesthetic and his choreography. He also speaks very intelligently on the subject of artistry, musicality, choreographing programs, working with Satoko, and with Matt Savoie, Alexander Johnson, et al. His manleywoman podcast from some years back is very enlightening. Highlights are transcribed on manleywoman's podcast website.

In response to queries from TSL hosts, Tom Dickson had this to say about Zagitova and Medvedeva, along with the observation that they both have talent that needs better nurturing:

"I hate to say it but they both do the same thing, in the same method ... Yes, they have a lot of flavor, but they're not skating to the music. (SNIP)

They're only doing [what they do] for the points."

This is quite possibly the stupidest criticism of Zagitova's skating I've read. She's doing it for the points. WHAT ELSE do you think she should be doing it for? Yo' mama's cookies? The pat on the head from His Majesty Dickson?

Imagine that. A competitive skater doing what the rules ask of her to gain enough points to win. The nerve on that broad! The unadulterated gall to ignore the opinion of people who aren't on the judging panel! Give her a public spanking! Put her in the naughty corner!

 

[Yazmeen]

Ashley made a comment. Alina responded to it. They both had the right to say what they felt, and I see nothing wrong with what either of them said. I agree with Ashley in that I don't like so much credit given to backloaded programs, and I also love that Alina hit her with the perfect "oh, snap" response.

But then again, I also tend to think Mirai being the one who actually comforted Gabby Daleman after her disastrous free skate and reminded her that she was gold medalist outweighs a tasteless comment made while she was being pressured in an interview. And I suppose because I'm postmenopausal and 60 and many of my filters disappeared with my estrogen, I'm just getting plain tired of people (especially other women) having to criticize women every time they open their mouths and don't sound like little ladies. I'm honestly hoping that the next woman who has a rough program answers the inevitable "what happened out there/what was going through you head" questions with "I fell on my ass, didn't you see that? And I was thinking "Oh, shit, better try and not fall again."

 

[artsciboy]

According to some posters Zagitova can write on the Twitter: "I really don't understand why the judges didn't call Wagner URs, we could see without slow motion." She wouldn't attack Ashley just the judges......

Which is ridiculous regardless of the interpretation on who is being attacked, whether its Ashley or the judges. Before everyone gets on Ashley as the underrotation queen, when she's fit and trained (yes, she has clearly been undertrained since winning silver at Worlds in '16 but was regaining form by this past Nationals), underrotations are rarely the problem on her solo/non 3-3 attempts. That's 5 of 7 triples. Yes, the back half of her 3-3s can be iffy, but to discredit her entire jump technique otherwise is ridiculous. Plus, Ashley's jumps when landed well get better heighth, distance and flow on the landings. Alena has the consistency and technique to get those 3-3s rotated, but they are not the most aesthetically pleasing.

 

[aftershocks]

This is quite possibly the stupidest criticism of Zagitova's skating I've read. She's doing it for the points. WHAT ELSE do you think she should be doing it for? Yo' mama's cookies? The pat on the head from His Majesty Dickson?

Imagine that. A competitive skater doing what the rules ask of her to gain enough points to win. The nerve on that broad! The unadulterated gall to ignore the opinion of people who aren't on the judging panel! Give her a public spanking! Put her in the naughty corner!

Your response simply shows your protectiveness toward a skater you love. So you want to focus on what you perceive are uncalled for disses, but are actually constructive criticisms. Plus you focus on the criticisms rather than on the positive comment that was made about Zagitova. You are also more interested in exaggerating the criticisms with negative OTT language instead of reflecting on what Dickson said in a more positive way.

Tom Dickson did not say it's wrong for Zagitova or for other skaters to strategize their programs to gain points. What he said is specifically focused on the aesthetic and artistic aspects of figure skating. He said that Zagitova's skating would be improved by her developing a better understanding of the music, and by learning how to hold out her moves to fully express the music. Instead of doing that, Zagitova rushes from move to move and backloads all the difficult technical elements to rack up the most points. In that way her entire purpose for every move she makes (throwing up a leg here and an arm there) is solely to rack up points, instead of to execute the program and to perform expressively to the music in a way that actually engages the audience authentically. What Zagitova and Medvedeva do are more like jaw-dropping circus act maneuvers masterminded by Eteri, as the three-ring circus madame, in order to bamboozle the audience and the judges. And they are getting away with it, so it's working for them. Sadly, it does not really work as the best examples of what figure skating is truly all about. The rule for extra points in the second half was not instituted for the purpose of skaters backloading all of their jumps. If everybody attempted to do that for point gain, it would become a 'backloading jumps' contest.

Most of TPTB in the sport are on-board politically with what Eteri is selling, or either they're too scared to make a stand against it. But sure that's complicated by the fact that Eteri's young skaters do have talent, and they are consistent and fiercely competitive, which the judges love. Unfortunately, their talent is not being guided in a way that actually pushes the sport forward, nor ultimately benefits these young ladies and their careers. Yes Zagitova won the OGM. So did Oksana Baiul and Adelina Sotnikova before they were fully competent and well-rounded skaters. Julia Lipnitskaya and Liza Tuktamysheva had their heights of heavenly glory and falls to earthly reality too, so let's see what's going to happen going forward for Zagitova and Medvedeva.

I personally hope that the judges would try to make a realistic effort to score Zagitova and Medvedeva, and all of the skaters fairly! I also wish that the sport would be more concerned about helping ZagMeds and all young skaters to actually improve their technical deficiencies and truly blossom as artists in a more authentic way. However, right now the sport of figure skating does not seem to care if that happens. It's one and done and on to the next bright young nubile fantasy from Russia.

I think it's sad to see Zagitova and Sotnikova win the ultimate holy grail goal and then become less motivated to continue working on improving and growing as skaters. Especially in Zagitova's case, since she has such amazing potential to blossom into a special skater. But Zagitova is just not there yet, regardless of the short-sighted judges rewarding Zag with gold and showering her and Med with such OTT component scores. It might have been better if Medvedeva had won OGM so she could retire, since Zagitova is the better jumper and has more potential underneath all that frou-frou tutu camouflaging extravaganza.

 

[Nadya]

Your response simply shows your protectiveness toward a skater you love. So you want to focus on what you perceive are uncalled for disses, but are actually constructive criticisms. Plus you focus on the criticisms rather than on the positive comment that was made about Zagitova. You are also more interested in exaggerating the criticisms with negative OTT language instead of reflecting on what Dickson said in a more positive way.

You'll never know anything about what I love so let's leave this out of the conversation. My entire interest in this, same as everywhere, is to delight in the ridiculous. Which this is.

Tom Dickson did not say it's wrong for Zagitova or for other skaters to strategize their programs to gain points. What he said is specifically focused on the aesthetic and artistic aspects of figure skating. He said that Zagitova's skating would be improved by her developing a better understanding of the music, and by learning how to hold out her moves to fully express the music. Instead of doing that, Zagitova rushes from move to move and backloads all the difficult technical elements to rack up the most points. In that way her entire purpose for every move she makes (throwing up a leg here and an arm there) is solely to rack up points, instead of to execute the program and to perform expressively to the music in a way that actually engages the audience in an authentic way. What Zagitova and Medvedeva do are more like jaw-dropping circus act maneuvers masterminded by Eteri, as the three-ring circus madame, in order to bamboozle the audience and the judges. And they are getting away with it, so it's working for them. Sadly, it does not really work as the best examples of what figure skating is truly all about. The rule for extra points in the second half was not instituted for the purpose of skaters backloading all of their jumps. If everybody attempted to do that for point gain, it would become a 'backloading jumps' contest.

No one has a monopoly on deciding "what figure skating is truly all about." There is no "truly" in it. That's Dickson's opinion. Carve this into your cortex: the only opinion that matters is the judges' and the rulebook's. No skater is killing themselves on the ice for hours for the approval of Tom Dickson. If the rulebook changes tomorrow, the skaters will change what they do to win. That's why they skate. To win. Not to "engage the audience in an "authentic" way, whatever the hell that means. Like, there's a fake way and an authentic way? Says who? The judges said the winners engaged them plenty. Everything else is for show skating.

Everyone can't backload their program. That's why Zagitova won. If everyone can do it, everyone would, and you better believe it that they tried! The rulebook is available to all and sundry. No one is leaving points on the table for the sake of "authentically" engaging the audience, they are doing it because they physically can't do all their jumps at the end of the program.

Most of TPTB in the sport are on-board politically with what Eteri is selling, or either they're too scared to make a stand against it. But sure that's complicated by the fact that Eteri's young skaters do have talent, and they are consistent and fiercely competitive, which the judges love. Unfortunately, their talent is not being guided in a way that actually pushes the sport forward, nor ultimately benefits these ladies and their careers. Yes Zagitova won the OGM. So did Oksana Baiul and Adelina Sotnikova before they were fully competent and well-rounded skaters. Julia Lipnitskaya and Liza Tuktamysheva had their heights of heavenly glory and falls to earthly reality too, so let's see what's going to happen going forward for Zagitova and Medvedeva.

Eteri is doing exactly what the rulebook is asking of her. The rules of the game are known to everyone. I disagree that the sport is not being pushed forward - the difference in technical ability of today's ladies vs. ladies ten years ago is very obvious. The standards of what is expected to win have changed. It may not have been pushed in the direction you prefer, but that's hardly the point. To pretend the sport hasn't moved forward in the last ten years is ridiculous.

 

[aftershocks]

Okay @Nadya, you're exactly right that I know nothing about you, except what you choose to show on this forum, which is obviously your vociferously stout and aggressive opinions with no leeway for being thoughtful and reflective.

Your way or the highway. Unsurprisingly, that's exactly how Eteri seems to operate. Uh, maybe you are Eteri, eh!

In any case, the sport surely has room for all kinds of opinions and points of view. That's a given. The rulebook contains a lot of stuff that might be intended to guide the sport in a beneficial way, but in many cases the rules are ineffective, unclear, or outdated. The sport has a very hard time keeping up with itself. And btw, if every skater began attempting to backload their programs for the points, you can bet that would spark clueless ISU to yet again make more rules changes. In any case, not everyone will try that, not because they can't do it, but simply because there are more pleasing and effective ways to amass points, and because they have more integrity.

The sport of figure skating is not only about technical ability alone, it's also about musicality and expressive performance, and about blade control. Both Zagitova and Medvedeva have deficiencies in all of these areas, which Eteri very slyly and skillfully (with the help of Rusfed politics) has learned how to successfully camouflage. And all power to her and her charges. They are definitely talented, and above all they are fierce and consistent competitors, which is the trump card that's been their key to blinding and bagging the judges.

Your view is the scorched-earth, dog-eat-dog, every person for themselves, cutthroat, smile for the cameras and knife 'em in the back way of seeing the world. Fine that does tend to work quite often, especially in figure skating. Yo tough mama, werk it wid yo bad self, and get over time and again until you don't, until you all played out. Let's see how soon that becomes the case for Med and Zag, with the newer models being primed to hit the senior scene. You are most certainly able and welcome to strut your view of figure skating to your heart's content.

Unfortunately, the fact that Zagitova and Medvedeva have technical and aesthetic weaknesses that aren't being accurately judged does not ultimately help them or the sport, whether it's apparent to you, to ZagMed addicts or haters, or to anyone who's actually in charge. But yeah, carry on as you will with your bold, in-your-face, 'born yesterday' viewpoints.

 

[mag]

He said that Zagitova's skating would be improved by her developing a better understanding of the music, and by learning how to hold out her moves to fully express the music. Instead of doing that, Zagitova rushes from move to move and backloads all the difficult technical elements to rack up the most points. In that way her entire purpose for every move she makes (throwing up a leg here and an arm there) is solely to rack up points, instead of to execute the program and to perform expressively to the music in a way that actually engages the audience authentically.

The reason any skater does anything is to rack up points. That is the whole idea. Can Zagitova improve, of course she can just like Bradie needs to develop her PCS side, Zagitova needs to continue to develop hers, but to say that she doesn’t engage “the audience authentically” is just mumbo jumbo said in hopes of sounding artistic and sophisticated. Tom Dickson should be above such crap.

In any case, not everyone will try that, not because they can't do it, but simply because there are more pleasing and effective ways to amass points, and because they have more integrity.

Here I am fairly sure you are wrong. Having integrity in competition means doing everything possible within the rules to win. That is showing respect for your competition. If other Skaters could put all their jumping passes in the second half, they would.