Now that Skaters are Hitting the Technical Limit of Jumps, Should Figures Be Phased Back In for the 2030 Olympics?

[ЭPiKUilyam]

It is interesting that between the 1988 and 1992 Olympics speed skaters took control of the ISU, then figures were eliminated by 1992 while short track was introduced at the 1992 Olympics

It is like they replaced a whole segment that nobody finds interesting with another whole segment that nobody finds interesting, so why not switch it back

Yep. And that Ottavio Cinquanta assumed the office of President of the International Skating Union on Feb27, 1994. Prior to becoming ISU President he was ISU Vice President and before the Chair of its Technical Committee for Short Track Speed Skating.

Figure skating was hosed starting about then.

 

[Colonel Green]

It is interesting that between the 1988 and 1992 Olympics speed skaters took control of the ISU, then figures were eliminated by 1992 while short track was introduced at the 1992 Olympics

The movement to eliminate figures was underway long before 1988; they had been progressively diminishing in importance since the 1970s, and more and more people were frustrated with them because nobody cared about them and yet they often dictated the results of competitions. Indeed, we got one last high-profile example of that right at the end of the figures era, when Midori Ito blew the doors off in both the short and free skates at 1990 Worlds but was only the silver medalist because of a poor showing in figures.

 

[Vash01]

I don't mind figures in a competition at much lower levels but once the skaters reach junior level, figures should not be a part of any competition. Training, yes. Competition - no.

 

[bardtoob]

The movement to eliminate figures was underway long before 1988; they had been progressively diminishing in importance since the 1970s, and more and more people were frustrated with them because nobody cared about them and yet they often dictated the results of competitions. Indeed, we got one last high-profile example of that right at the end of the figures era, when Midori Ito blew the doors off in both the short and free skates at 1990 Worlds but was only the silver medalist because of a poor showing in figures.

It was more like Trenary was overscored in the SP

Jill Trenary (USA) - 1990 Worlds, Ladies' Original Program (German Broadcast Feed)

Halifax, Nova Scotia, CANADA - 1990 World Figure Skating Championships, Ladies' Original Program (German Broadcast Feed) - Jill Trenary of the United States ...

www.youtube.com

This was the year when Fassi politiking did him in. The results were too glaringly mismatched.

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

I know what @Brenda_Bottems answer is!!

Indeed. The sport is called FIGURE skating,yet figures have no place in the sport? Baffling. I believe the upcoming Olympics will be disastrous for the sport. Reinstatement of compulsory figures is the only logical corrective action to take and would be a rapturous moment for our sport.

I say bring school figures back and get rid of quads ..... and eulers.... and layback spins that end in the biellman and bad covers of Emo music and war horses, but I digress

Co-signed. Do not forget the abolishment of code of points—I endeavor to someday again use my Chevrolet 6.0 paddles in competition.

It is like they replaced a whole segment that nobody finds interesting with another whole segment that nobody finds interesting, so why not switch it back

Very astute observation. Speed skating has been leeching resources from figure skating for decades. Time's up.

-BB

 

[Colonel Green]

It was more like Trenary was overscored in the SP

Whether or not you thought the SP placement was correct is irrelevant, the point is that under the judging system 5+2 beat 1+1 because of a segment nobody watched or cared about.

Hockey games don’t open with an announcement that McDavid beat Crosby in a chess match earlier that day and so the Oilers start with a 1 goal lead.

 

[misskarne]

No. I loved figures and they are valuable but they don’t belong in competition. Also, any coach younger than 40ish probably has no clue how to teach them to a competition or test standard.

And any judge younger than 60 probably has no clue how to judge them, either.

 

[bardtoob]

And any judge younger than 60 probably has no clue how to judge them, either.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I endeavor to someday again use my Chevrolet 6.0 paddles in competition.

Brillz!!!

I remember them

 

[skateboy]

I would LOVE for figures to be brought back into competition, for the good of the sport and the skaters.

And, for strictly dramatic reasons... how would all the Russian "women" jumping beans fare? Could be verrrrry interesting... How would Nathan and Hanyu do?

 

[gkelly]

Traced circles on clean ice as a separate competition segment, with judges on the ice to examine them, is not going to happen, primarily for financial reasons of several kinds.

It would have been nice if somewhere between 1972 and 1992 the figures had been made into a separate discipline with its own medals, and probably more difficult (creative?) variations added to that event. But they weren't, and there's no going back now.

The ISU can't control what various federations require of their own skaters outside of standard international competition levels.

There could be more technical elements that demand blade-to-ice skills, in addition to or instead of one of the current jump or spin elements and in addition to the current step sequence. Maybe as a required element in the short (or technical) program, or as optional elements in the well-balanced free skate (or artistic program).

Such elements might involve tangent circles elaborated with turns, judged on accuracy as the judges can see them from a distance, with the understanding that the ice will not be equally clean all competitors.

Incorporating such elements into an existing program would save a lot of ice time for the hosting organizations and would be part of something that audiences already buy tickets to and broadcasters already pay to show. Skaters and coaches would have to figure out ways improve the ability to demonstrate symmetrical circles and clean turns (which might involve training standard school figures on clean ice where possible. But also making them fit into a program with music, allowing for variations in body position etc. to show extra difficulty and add artistry to the patterns.

 

[AxelAnnie]

They will never bring figures back. It would put countries at a huge disadvantage that do not have adequate ice facilities. Figures help a lot with foot strength and edge control, but those skills at slow speed do not translate into graceful skating skills. There were plenty of clunky skaters who had the benefit of school figures and practicing figures did not automatically translate to graceful free skating skills.

And figures is never going to be marketable
to tv.

 

[bardtoob]

And you figures is never going to be marketable
to tv.

People already don't watch skaters go around in circles on TV. It's called speed skating

... So why not figures

 

[AxelAnnie]

People already don't watch skaters go around in circles on TV. It's called speed skating

... So why not figures

Well, at least with speed skating, you can tell who is going fastest.

For figures, you have to be really dedicated or bored or some kind of expert to figure out what edge they are on(and care about it.)

 

[ninjapirate]

Pretty sure Sonia Bianchetti takes a lot of credit for the elimination of compulsory figures.

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

Pretty sure Sonia Bianchetti takes a lot of credit for the elimination of compulsory figures.

She is my Skate Goddess for life.

 

[ninjapirate]

She is my Skate Goddess for life.

I just find it kind of ironic considering how some of the debates on the direction of figure skating line up... kind of how it was the IIRC canadians who seemed to be the biggest supporters of IJS during it's inception.

 

[aliceanne]

No. Figures is a different discipline.

The aim of the original figure skating competitions was to draw intricate and beautiful patterns on the ice such as flowers. Everyone going round and round on a patch tracing the exact same figure has no entertainment or aesthetic value. As a training tool for free skating it is flawed because it teaches you to look down while executing the edges and turns.

 

[VGThuy]

No. Figures is a different discipline.

The aim of the original figure skating competitions was to draw intricate and beautiful patterns on the ice such as flowers. Everyone going round and round on a patch tracing the exact same figure has no entertainment or aesthetic value. As a training tool for free skating it is flawed because it teaches you to look down while executing the edges and turns.

That makes sense. Compulsory dances in ice dance and compulsory gymnastics were highly related to the other portions of the sport. Figures are really a different animal despite shared footwork moves.

 

[Judy]

No I don't want them back personally.

 

[soogar]

This.


Which, IMO, gives credence to the argument that figures didn't exactly help skating skills (at least what the audience likes watching in free skating)... Who'd watch Harding and say she had better skating skills than Janet Lynn?

Tonya had great skating skills. Speed , edges and spins. Personally I think Lynn is overrated.

 

[VGThuy]

Tonya Harding had deep edges and power during moments of her programs but I don’t think her programs past 1990 were great showcases of skating skills in its full definition. In fact, she’s become way overrated in the past decade as a response to her not being fully appreciated at her time.

 

[olympic]

Yes. Why not. It would force skaters to be better-rounded, and even if they are not, think of the dynamic movement in the standings at any given competition! It was great seeing Denise Biellmann go from 12th -> 4th at Lake Placid and Elaine Zayak ... anytime

 

[On My Own]

Tonya had great skating skills. Speed , edges and spins. Personally I think Lynn is overrated.

Harding had great power and speed when she actually tried. Disagree about the edges most of the time. Why are spins included in skating skills?

 

[soogar]

Harding had great power and speed when she actually tried. Disagree about the edges most of the time. Why are spins included in skating skills?

Why wouldn't a spin be a skating skill? It's done on circle and leaves a pattern on the ice. It's just a much smaller circle than a figure. We are saying a 3 turn is part of figures, why not a spin?

 

[DBZ]

Compulsory dances in ice dance and compulsory gymnastics were highly related to the other portions of the sport. Figures are really a different animal despite shared footwork moves.

So, what would you guys think of a compulsory exercise similar to the one used in gymnastics up until the mid-90s?

Like, an exercise filled with a set of basic and standardized jumps, spins, moves and steps set to the same music--but choreographed in such a way so as to reward skaters with strong edge control, knee-bend, technique, line and posture?

The Short Program is a little similar with required elements, but that program can be built and choreographed to highlight a skater's strengths and mask their weaknesses.

In this exercise, we strip everything down to essential basics: limit jumps to doubles/singles and get rid of leveling up on elements.

This way we're comparing apples to apples--like we did with the compulsory dance, but with singles skating.

I'm sure there's a myriad of reasons why this wouldn't work (gymnastics and ice dance got rid of their compulsories), and it's probably too subjective to be judged fairly--but I think it would be really interesting to see which skaters would emerge as high scorers and which would struggle in this format.

 

[Vagabond]

But no, they are not going to return to figures.

Of course they aren't, but that isn't the question presented in the poll.

 

[tony]

Of course they aren't, but that isn't the question presented in the poll.

‘Phasing them back in’ for the 2030 Olympics— or sooner— is not returning to figures?

 

[BittyBug]

@gkelly figures were a separate discipline in the US for a period during the 90’s.

IIRC they were still required for testing but for competition they were separate.

 

[bardtoob]

Pretty sure Sonia Bianchetti takes a lot of credit for the elimination of compulsory figures.

She has also been a harsh critique of the direction the IJS has taken skating.