Now that Skaters are Hitting the Technical Limit of Jumps, Should Figures Be Phased Back In for the 2030 Olympics?

[bardtoob]

Now that skaters are hitting the technical limit of jumps, should figures be phased back in? I mean doing a quintuple jump seems unlikely any time soon, especially with rotation calls being so stringent.

I am imagining figures being phased back in so that they are part of the competition again for the 2030 Olympics.

• Start below international junior after the 2022 Olympics
• Start at international junior post the 2026 Olympics
• Start at international senior competition in the 2028-29 ISU Championships, then into all senior competition for the 2029-2030 Olympic season.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I know what @Brenda_Bottems answer is!!

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I say bring school figures back and get rid of quads ..... and eulers.... and layback spins that end in the biellman and bad covers of Emo music and war horses, but I digress

 

[bardtoob]

I say bring school figures back and get rid of quads ..... and eulers.... and layback spins that end in the biellman and bad covers of Emo music and war horses, but I digress

I don't think we need to necessarily explicitly remove anything so we have the "good old days" again, but I do think this would put some emphasis back on the "blade on the ice" part of "skating".

 

[Coco]

Well they could prescribe the elements to be performed in the short program. With everyone getting a crack at the same base value, it would at least make things interesting. It would also force some improvements in how components are applied.

 

[Vagabond]

Yes, but it isn't the only change that ought to be made.

TES and PCS should be rejiggered so that skaters cannot earn more TES than the maximum possible PCS. One possible way of doing this might be to adjust PCS at every event in such a way that the highest PCS awarded is the same as the highest PCS. In other words, if the highest TES in a particular Men's Free Skate is 117.47 and the highest PCS is 92.30, then the highest PCS is somehow increased to 117.47 or the highest TES is somehow decreased to 92.30.

 

[bardtoob]

Well they could prescribe the elements to be performed in the short program. With everyone getting a crack at the same base value, it would at least make things interesting. It would also force some improvements in how components are applied.

I actually don't want to discourage athleticism. I think skaters should still be motivated by the rewards of a quad. However, I still think they could be better skaters.

 

[bardtoob]

TES and PCS should be rejiggered so that skaters cannot earn more TES than the maximum possible PCS. One possible way of doing this might be to adjust PCS at every event in such a way that the highest PCS awarded is the same as the highest PCS. In other words, if the highest TES in a particular Men's Free Skate is 117.47 and the highest PCS is 92.30, then the highest PCS is somehow increased to 117.47 or the highest TES is somehow decreased to 92.30.

Yes, but what if two skaters go to 10 on every category? There is no place to go then is there? But can mine go to 11?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMSV4OteqBE

 

[bladesofgorey]

So are you saying that figures should also replace Moves in the Field too? Because honestly as someone who grew up doing figures, figures does teach control of all of the small stabilizing muscles of the body at slow speeds and can help with control and body awareness but imo Moves help overall skating skills more. Take a look at footwork from the 80s, there was nowhere near the deep lobes and intricacy of footwork we see now even at the lower levels.

Figures were skated on top of the ice, not down into the ice. I wish I'd had to test corresponding moves when I tested up through Novice back in the day- I would have developed stronger and more versatile edges and turns.

Also at a time where skating is prohibitively expensive for most families and ice time is hard to come by in a lot of areas (it's all taken up by hockey in a lot of places that a decade ago had multiple freestyle sessions) clubs having to use half of their paltry 2-4 hour a week (or less) freestyle sessions for patch ice isn't going to increase grassroots participation in the sport. Moves can be practiced on freestyle ice and on public sessions at some rinks, figures can't.

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

I would say no to figures. For much of the same reasons above. If someone wants better/deeper edges, carving out a perfect paragraph loop probably won't help your PCS in your programs. Skaters should be taking extra edging and stroking classes. Spending hours upon hours boringly tracing small circles is just not worth the money or time. IMO.

 

[briancoogaert]

Maybe not figures at a high level of competition, but for sure, figures when young seem required. All those young skaters who don't know what an edge is, and can't control any of them is awful, and is favoring injuries IMHO.

 

[Colonel Green]

No, because it’s a terrible idea for a competition to have a whole segment that nobody finds interesting.

 

[tony]

If anything, the technical and artistic program idea may start to gain steam especially if some Federations see it as the only way their skaters have a chance in the next x number of years

But no, they are not going to return to figures.

 

[bardtoob]

Also at a time where skating is prohibitively expensive for most families and ice time is hard to come by in a lot of areas (it's all taken up by hockey in a lot of places that a decade ago had multiple freestyle sessions) clubs having to use half of their paltry 2-4 hour a week (or less) freestyle sessions for patch ice isn't going to increase grassroots participation in the sport. Moves can be practiced on freestyle ice and on public sessions at some rinks, figures can't.

This is the most compelling reason for not having figures anybody has said in this whole thread so far.

Figures were skated on top of the ice, not down into the ice.

On the other hand, this quote is sus.

Good figures were into the ice, although some of the best freeskaters, like Janet Lynn and Kristi Yamaguchi, did not have figures that were into the ice. On the overhand, Hamill and apparently Harding could get deep into the ice.

In general, good figures were into the ice.

So are you saying that figures should also replace Moves in the Field too? . . . Moves help overall skating skills more. Take a look at footwork from the 80s, there was nowhere near the deep lobes and intricacy of footwork we see now even at the lower levels.

It was because the skaters of the 80s were not asked but it does not mean they couldn't.

Gary Beacom 1983 Canadians Short Program

Canadian national championships, Montreal, Quebec, with that famously fabulous crossfoot spin looking nearly as good as it does today!

www.youtube.com

 

[ninjapirate]

Solo Ice Dance like program would be better than bringing back figures.

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

Solo Ice Dance like program would be better than bringing back figures.

Yes. I would be on board with that. No jumps more than 2 revolutions if any.

 

[viennese]

It's kind of sad that figures are gone from the sport. (Except as a teaching tool - my coach still has me working on them in practice, to help with turns and edges).

But school figures were hard for countries and skaters that did not have year-round ice arenas. It was supposed to even the playing field for countries like Japan, where there were fewer rinks and less year round ice access (in the 1980s).

 

[BittyBug]

How about if judges started marking PCS based on what is actually skated rather than what is jumped.

 

[zigzig]

Yeah figures and horse drawn buggies

 

[made_in_canada]

No. I loved figures and they are valuable but they don’t belong in competition. Also, any coach younger than 40ish probably has no clue how to teach them to a competition or test standard.

 

[VGThuy]

Imagine the Koola King-type videos for figures!

 

[soogar]

They will never bring figures back. It would put countries at a huge disadvantage that do not have adequate ice facilities. Figures help a lot with foot strength and edge control, but those skills at slow speed do not translate into graceful skating skills. There were plenty of clunky skaters who had the benefit of school figures and practicing figures did not automatically translate to graceful free skating skills.

 

[On My Own]

Also at a time where skating is prohibitively expensive for most families and ice time is hard to come by in a lot of areas (it's all taken up by hockey in a lot of places that a decade ago had multiple freestyle sessions) clubs having to use half of their paltry 2-4 hour a week (or less) freestyle sessions for patch ice isn't going to increase grassroots participation in the sport. Moves can be practiced on freestyle ice and on public sessions at some rinks, figures can't.

This.

Good figures were into the ice, although some of the best freeskaters, like Janet Lynn and Kristi Yamaguchi, did not have figures that were into the ice. On the overhand, Hamill and apparently Harding could get deep into the ice.

Which, IMO, gives credence to the argument that figures didn't exactly help skating skills (at least what the audience likes watching in free skating)... Who'd watch Harding and say she had better skating skills than Janet Lynn?

Take a look at footwork from the 80s, there was nowhere near the deep lobes and intricacy of footwork we see now even at the lower levels.

It was because the skaters of the 80s were not asked but it does not mean they couldn't.

Agree here... But still, it does mean that intricate footwork wasn't exactly emphasised in the same way, and many didn't try to do intricacy unless they specifically trained that skill. I think we can hit a better spot where intricacy is emphasised, but not at the cost of overall performance.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

I will take any scoring system that does a better job of recognizing that technical skills include more than jumping.

 

[VGThuy]

Aren’t skaters who don’t have access to all-year ice facilities always at a disadvantage? Especially in the age of the triple/triple, triple Axel, and quads? And IJS emphasizes skating skills and footwork more and ensuring skaters master difficult turns and steps.

 

[bladesofgorey]

They will never bring figures back. It would put countries at a huge disadvantage that do not have adequate ice facilities. Figures help a lot with foot strength and edge control, but those skills at slow speed do not translate into graceful skating skills. There were plenty of clunky skaters who had the benefit of school figures and practicing figures did not automatically translate to graceful free skating skills.

Not only that, it may teach general body position from the shoulders down, but figures requires that the skater drop their head and stare at the ice the entire time to make sure their tracings are exact and I fail to see how that muscle memory helps with free skating posture.

 

[manhn]

They already hold the team event before the opening ceremony. When and how could they hold compulsories? Back then, there was no short track.

 

[jenny12]

Yes, get rid of the short program and add figures! (doing the reverse didn’t help Janet Lynn anyway)

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

No. I loved figures and they are valuable but they don’t belong in competition. Also, any coach younger than 40ish probably has no clue how to teach them to a competition or test standard.

Excellent point.

 

[bardtoob]

They already hold the team event before the opening ceremony. When and how could they hold compulsories? Back then, there was no short track.

No, because it’s a terrible idea for a competition to have a whole segment that nobody finds interesting.

It is interesting that between the 1988 and 1992 Olympics speed skaters took control of the ISU, then figures were eliminated by 1992 while short track was introduced at the 1992 Olympics

It is like they replaced a whole segment that nobody finds interesting with another whole segment that nobody finds interesting, so why not switch it back