Newbie and/or dumb questions

[Aussie Willy]

What exactly are skating skills and how do skaters acquire them?

When I am judging the things I look for in skating skills are:

• Knee and ankle action - fluidity of movement
• Knee bend - you don't want to see stiff legs
• Speed across the ice
• Deep curves on edges - not flats
• Ability to skate on one foot
• Ability to skate in both directions, not just one
• Do they just do lots of crossovers or can they turn quickly and quietly
• Noisy skating - do you hear obvious noise?
• Does the skater generate a lot of snow off their blade?

The step sequences can be key because even though they might appear to have good skating skills, if they have trouble doing even a simple step sequence that shows their skating skills are not that great. One of the times when an element can support the evaluation of a component.

 

[missing]

How exactly are GOEs added? If a skater does a skill with a base level of 2.2 absolutely perfectly and all the judges think it's deserving of a +5, will the element be ultimately marked as a 7.2? Or are GOEs marked more on a sliding scale- a 2.2 element can never be marked as a 7.2?

 

[Vagabond]

How exactly are GOEs added? If a skater does a skill with a base level of 2.2 absolutely perfectly and all the judges think it's deserving of a +5, will the element be ultimately marked as a 7.2? Or are GOEs marked more on a sliding scale- a 2.2 element can never be marked as a 7.2?

Each plus or minus step in the GOE results in increasing or decreasing the value by 10 % in Single and Pair Skating and by 16 % in Ice Dance.

https://www.isu.org/inside-single-p...-range-of-grade-of-execution?templateParam=15

Thus, a Singles or Pairs element with a Base Value of 2.2 points will be worth 2.2 x 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.1, which, rounded down, is 3.54 points. The comparable Ice Dance element will be worth 4.62 points.

 

[kittysk8ts]

I feel it right away when I land, but I'm only doing singles and that's for sure not the same thing as triples and quads Anyone with better knowledge/experience?

I’d say for the most part, they know. It’s true, you can feel it. However, I’m sure it’s possible to be surprised at an UR call as well. It depends on the tech panel a lot too. See Javi Fernandez comments on is SP at Euros, haha.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

When did figure skating start the tradition of throwing stuffies on the ice? Did it start with flowers and escalate? Just curious when the first throwing started.

 

[sharsk8s]

When did figure skating start the tradition of throwing stuffies on the ice? Did it start with flowers and escalate? Just curious when the first throwing started.

From videos I watched it seems the tradition started in the mid 70's with flowers being thrown on the ice (the first instance I saw was the '78 worlds but there may have been earlier events). I think it must have evolved from there as a way for the crowd to get involved and show appreciation to the skater. Nowadays people throw huge stuffed animals, hang banners and give out flower crowns. I think it is cool to see how much the crowd has changed at competitions

 

[nuge]

From videos I watched it seems the tradition started in the mid 70's with flowers being thrown on the ice (the first instance I saw was the '78 worlds but there may have been earlier events). I think it must have evolved from there as a way for the crowd to get involved and show appreciation to the skater. Nowadays people throw huge stuffed animals, hang banners and give out flower crowns. I think it is cool to see how much the crowd has changed at competitions

Apparently Canadians knit How long has that been going on ?

 

[mackiecat]

Stuffier are much safer than flowers. The flowers used to leave leaf and petal debris on the ice

 

[SkateGuard]

When did figure skating start the tradition of throwing stuffies on the ice? Did it start with flowers and escalate? Just curious when the first throwing started.

I did a blog on this back in 2015 you might be interested in:

https://skateguard1.blogspot.com/2015/11/from-carnations-to-kale-curious-history.html

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

That is quite the history.

 

[Janbo]

Fascinating

 

[JasperBoy]

I think it was Canadian Nationals in Victoria in 2011. One of the sponsors...the insurance company, IIRC, brought bags of stuffies. They handed them out to sections of the audience before each skater, with instructions to throw them after the skate. But the skater never saw them. The stuffies were collected, put back in the bags, and handed out for the next skater. The section I was in got to toss the stuffies a few times. That never happened again.

 

[Doggygirl]

I think it was Canadian Nationals in Victoria in 2011. One of the sponsors...the insurance company, IIRC, brought bags of stuffies. They handed them out to sections of the audience before each skater, with instructions to throw them after the skate. But the skater never saw them. The stuffies were collected, put back in the bags, and handed out for the next skater. The section I was in got to toss the stuffies a few times. That never happened again.

My understanding is that this "recycling" of stuffies has been done at US Nationals. The sponsor Smuckers has provided stuffed strawberries to throw, and my understanding is that those got recycled and thrown over and over. Might just be urban legend - maybe someone knows for sure?

 

[missing]

During the Junior World Championships, the TV/streaming feed for ice dance had a close up of the woman's face during a twizzle sequence.

That got me wondering where the technical specialists get their feed. Is it from a separate camera than the ones used for TV/streaming or do they get all the TV/streaming video and use the one that shows what they need to focus on?

 

[Vagabond]

That got me wondering where the technical specialists get their feed. Is it from a separate camera than the ones used for TV/streaming or do they get all the TV/streaming video and use the one that shows what they need to focus on?

It's from a separate camera that is stationed next to them.

 

[nimi]

Here's a fairly recent article by Lynn Rutherford that talks about the tech panel feed: Can a single HD camera provide accurate replays?

The ISU employs Swiss Timing personnel to operate a single HD video camera on the right side of the judging panels’ front-row seats. When technical panel members need replays, they are provided video taken by this camera. Since this replay footage is not available to broadcasters, fans watching via live stream or television are seeing footage filmed by different cameras, from multiple angles.

Btw I'd much rather watch that single video camera feed than the horrible multi-angle feed we get from these Jr Worlds. All those close-ups of faces and torsos during twizzles and lifts and step sequences and side by side spins and layback spins and... aaaaaargh

 

[Japanfan]

Apparently Canadians knit How long has that been going on ?

Only Canadians knit? I hardly think so.

 

[antmanb]

Only Canadians knit? I hardly think so.

did you even read the post that you quoted?!

 

[tylersf]

Why do people get violently attacked in FSUniverse when they have a difference of opinion from heavy posters in the forum? (i.e. Someone preferring Nathan Chen over Yuzuru Hanyu etc.)

 

[sharsk8s]

Why do people get violently attacked in FSUniverse when they have a difference of opinion from heavy posters in the forum? (i.e. Someone preferring Nathan Chen over Yuzuru Hanyu etc.)

It's definitely not right. I think there are some people/couples who have a really heavy fan base (ex: Yuzuru, V/M, Evgenia, etc.) and their fans can get really defensive against people with different opinions. As long as you are respectful about your different opinions other posters should be too.

 

[tylersf]

TSL said that someone who wasn't a fan of Yuruzu Hanyu was reported to his/her company's HR department because that "non-fan" said things about Hanyu. Endangering someone's livelihood is crossing some dangerous boundaries. I am careful about what I say because I'm afraid some people in this room would actually hunt you down and murder you if you don't agree with them 100%. I have seen some extremely violent responses when someone makes a mistake in their facts or happens to differ in their viewpoint versus the fan base.

It's definitely not right. I think there are some people/couples who have a really heavy fan base (ex: Yuzuru, V/M, Evgenia, etc.) and their fans can get really defensive against people with different opinions. As long as you are respectful about your different opinions other posters should be too.

 

[bardtoob]

I think you answered your own question.

During the Kwan era there a number of years when women weren't commonly attempting 3-3s - for the same reason: they didn't have to.

I think every year but 1999 is somebody had a 3/3 planned.

- 1994 Kerrigan
- 1995 Slutskaya
- 1996 Slutskaya, Lipinski, Kwan
- 1997 Slutskaya, Lipinski, Kwan
- 1998 Slutskaya, Lipinski
- 1999
- 2000 Slutskaya, Kwan
- 2001 Slutskaya, Kwan
- 2002 Slutskaya, Kwan, Cohen, Hughes
- 2003 Kwan performed one in qualifying, Sokolova
- 2004 Arakawa
- 2005 Arakawa, Slutskaya

 

[WillyElliot]

I think every year but 1999 is somebody had a 3/3 planned.

- 1994 Kerrigan
- 1995 Slutskaya
- 1996 Slutskaya, Lipinski, Kwan
- 1997 Slutskaya, Lipinski, Kwan
- 1998 Slutskaya, Lipinski
- 1999
- 2000 Slutskaya, Kwan
- 2001 Slutskaya, Kwan
- 2002 Slutskaya, Kwan, Cohen, Hughes
- 2003 Kwan performed one in qualifying, Sokolova
- 2004 Arakawa
- 2005 Arakawa, Slutskaya

In 1999, Julia Soldatova did 3s-3t. Diana Poth was also doing 3t-3t around that time, but I'm not sure what she did at 99Worlds. Also, Kwan was supposed to do 3t-3t, which she did at Nationals. And Lenka Kulovana was doing 3t-3t all through the 90s.

 

[tony]

In 1999, Julia Soldatova did 3s-3t. Diana Poth was also doing 3t-3t around that time, but I'm not sure what she did at 99Worlds. Also, Kwan was supposed to do 3t-3t, which she did at Nationals. And Lenka Kulovana was doing 3t-3t all through the 90s.

Poth did it in both the short and long at Worlds in 99. Sokolova was doing 3Lo+3T in 1998.

 

[giselle23]

I think every year but 1999 is somebody had a 3/3 planned.

- 1994 Kerrigan
- 1995 Slutskaya
- 1996 Slutskaya, Lipinski, Kwan
- 1997 Slutskaya, Lipinski, Kwan
- 1998 Slutskaya, Lipinski
- 1999
- 2000 Slutskaya, Kwan
- 2001 Slutskaya, Kwan
- 2002 Slutskaya, Kwan, Cohen, Hughes
- 2003 Kwan performed one in qualifying, Sokolova
- 2004 Arakawa
- 2005 Arakawa, Slutskaya

Michelle did a 3-3 at 1999 Nationals.

 

[bardtoob]

Diana Poth was also doing 3t-3t around that time, but I'm not sure what she did at 99Worlds.

Diana Poth . . . always sounds like some fictional skater.

 

[WillyElliot]

Diana Poth . . . always sounds like some fictional skater.

That's not her name??? Didn't "poths" pass away in the last few years? I figured it was all about Diana Poth.

 

[SkateGuard]

I think every year but 1999 is somebody had a 3/3 planned.

Laetitia Hubert had a 3toe/3toe circa 1998-99 as well but she didn't compete at Worlds that season.

 

[tony]

Laetitia Hubert had a 3toe/3toe circa 1998-99 as well but she didn't compete at Worlds that season.

She was doing it in the short program, at least at Skate Canada that year. She also had it planned in her SPs in 1997 and 1998. She was attempting it in early 1999-2000 before injuries took over that year, as well. I know she was doing it as early as the 1992 season.

ETA- she also went for it in the free skate at 1998 Worlds, towards the end of the program.

 

[aftershocks]

Let's see if I get it. Since men tend to have higher TES because of quads and triples and everything else, the factor for men needs to be higher so the PCS can match the TES in a sort of 50-50 way.

Is that right?

Interesting discussion. What was the reasoning for gender disparity when skating was first developed (and it was all about tracing figures on the ice, not jumping)? Of course, men were generally the only competitors initially, until finally women were allowed to have a separate competitive division. In fact, for a time, it was considered scandalous for women to participate in any sport.

Apparently, starting a separate division for women was found necessary when Madge Syers became the first woman to compete against men, and shockers, won a silver medal and beat at least one or more men (back in the early days, there were very few competitors at skating events). After Madge's feat, organizers felt it was best to start a competitive division for women, or as they say, 'ladies.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madge_Syers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Figure_Skating_Championships

I did a blog on this back in 2015 you might be interested in:

https://skateguard1.blogspot.com/2015/11/from-carnations-to-kale-curious-history.html

Thanks Ryan!

"The practice of throwing flowers to performers was actually banned in Viennese theaters in the nineteenth century as 'an intolerable nuisance.'

It can certainly be an 'intolerable nuisance' these days as well.