Nathan Chen (#Slaythan Fans) thread

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Here's an interesting video about some of the reason(s) why it will be physically impossible/ improbable for skaters to land a quint jump (full five rotations) successfully. Enlightening discussion of quads is also included. There's footage of Nathan landing quads, and a guest appearance by former Quad King, Timothy Goebel, as he helps the inquisitive reporter understand the dynamics behind training those difficult revolutions (off-ice on a trampoline). This made me wonder whether many skaters practice their jumping and rotating technique on a trampoline?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7AjF4of300
 
Part of me wishes I hadn't seen baby Nathan skating to his "Peter and Wolf" FS in 2010. He stole my heart then and now my heart is too full. His Team SP was heart breaking. But I'm going to root for him all the way. I wish for him the best skates of his life in the SP and FS. I won't be able to post tonight but I want to say that I know he's got the heart of a champion!

GO NATHAN!!! HANG TOUGH!! YOU CAN DO IT!! KICK ICE! :respec:
 
I like Nathan's new outfit. Looking at the guys in practices and warmups, it looks to me like Hanyu has taken cues from Nathan sartorially, re Vera Wang black bodysuit style, eh! :D

ETA: Oh, I see that was only Yuzu's practice outfit. Maybe Vera was taking sartorial cues from Yuzu? ;)
 
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Wow, that's hard to believe. He came out with no confidence at all. Never ever has Nathan skated this poorly. It's even worse than the team competition. On his tech elements??? Nathan at this rate, is not even going to medal. I guess chalk it up to experience. They would have him skating right after Yuzu. And then Yuzu had the opportunity to be off the grid for so long due to his injury and he's come back fresh as a daisy and rarin' to go.

Nathan should have had enough time to get his head together, but apparently he did not. The team comp results seem to have taken the stuffing right out of him. And then still all the heavy expectations because granted, he did push the sport forward with his five quads skated cleanly in back-to-back comps last year. And he did skate fairly well all season. I just think he's had too much going on with not really being at the top of his game. Something has seemed slightly off. But he had the big rep and was squeaking by and winning. But then all the hype and attention has turned out to be too much.

Even though they would add the pressure of Nathan having to skate right after Yuzu's perfect skate and all the Pooh stuffies on the ice, still Nathan has skated after Yuzu before, more than once. So it should not have fazed him to this degree. I really wonder if it's all the expectations and suddenly his dream is coming true but there's so much attention on him. NBC is not even showing the skating live. Maybe they wanted to wait and see what was going to happen before showing it live in primetime?

If Nathan comes out and lands everything in the fp, he will pull up a little, but it's going to be difficult. He just needed to get in the ballpark. But now the judges are looking at him askance. I wonder how or if he can shake this off and at least try to give a clean perfomrance in the fp to salvage something of his Olympic experience.

All the other top contenders are breathing a sigh of relief. Now, it's only between the same old, same old guys. Such a shame as Nathan brought a certain edge and breath of fresh air to the sport. How does he regroup after this, performing so poorly on a big stage? I don't know. It's not life or death of course. It's sport, and hopefully lessons learned. Nathan has always been a gamer though, so this is surprising. He's always beaten guys older than him. But now it looks like the bigness of the moment, coupled with the heavy expectations just flattened him. Everything was sucked out of the arena after Yuzu's skate, and it's true as Johnny said that Nathan apparently didn't have enough experience to draw on to put something together. This is such a shame.

This men's comp is not even exciting right now. I see the top four in the fp remaining that way if they skate pretty much the same in the fp. If Yuzu goes clean in the fp (and maybe even if he doesn't), he's going to win without anyone even touching him. The judges love him that much. Nathan's main chance was his coolness under pressure, his edgy artistry, and his ability to rack up clean quads. Didn't anyone sit down with Nathan and talk about what he was feeling? He must have felt so embarrassed after the team comp, and he hasn't really had a chance to process it and shake it off effectively. Why didn't he throw another jump somehow onto the second quad? He wouldn't be down quite as low.

But hold your head up Nathan!
 
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I'm in shock! To miss every jumping pass is unfathomable to me unless he was injured! His head has to be really screwed up for that awful performance! HOW in the world did Fernandez even get close to Hanyu? Skating still the shadiest sport out there! Uno should have stayed in 2nd at least! Why this deference to this guy; a couple of World titles and half a dozen Euros means he should be floated near the top even if not up to snuff? I just can't understand it sometimes! :rolleyes: :COP: :wall:
 
Oh my is right.

Kurt Browning and Carol Lane were talking about too many boots, too many blades, just too many distractions for him. Also talking about how some people felt the USFSA should have sent him back out for the Team event LP to help him shake off the SP.

He’s young, has two more Olympics in him if he wants but I worry about how this will affect him mentally.
 
I think all along he is just not competing smart. Other guys treat early events as test events while he expended so much energy winning early season competitions, over practiced at quite a lot of events, and over practicing doesn't improve his jump consistency or to do well at major meets
 
Rafter said:
Oh my is right.

Kurt Browning and Carol Lane were talking about too many boots, too many blades, just too many distractions for him. Also talking about how some people felt the USFSA should have sent him back out for the Team event LP to help him shake off the SP.

He’s young, has two more Olympics in him if he wants but I worry about how this will affect him mentally.
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That commercial for the Olympics with him as a babe talking about 2018 surely didn't help! It was like Adam's proclamations before Nat'ls that had to make it devastating to fall to 4th, but got to the Olympics anyway thru a pick! :rolleyes:
 
jlai said:
I think all along he is just not competing smart. Other guys treat early events as test events while he expended so much energy winning early season competitions, over practiced at quite a lot of events, and over practicing doesn't improve his jump consistency or to do well at major meets
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^^ Sure, but I think that's a bit of retroactive over-analysis. Guys compete during the season. I just think it's that Nathan has set an amazing record, and the pressure began to build from there. And after Nationals this year, it ratcheted up to an incredible degree with all the national attention, and too much setting him up, putting too much on his shoulders. I partly blame USFS, with too much OTT banking on Nathan as savior of U.S. men's program. USFS always miscalculates. And there's just too much attention on the quad. Everyone needs to keep things in historical perspective. Also, I think it's important to point out the sport's over-reaction to what Nathan had achieved. All of a sudden they decided that they needed to reduce quad values after Nathan gave them what they seemed to be asking for. But no, they didn't want it. It upset the order of things. Well, now I guess they have their order back. But the changes they are talking about for next season are really iffy.

Nathan strikes me as a quiet guy who probably internalizes a lot that even those close to him aren't always sure what he's thinking? I hope he can somehow find his mojo. Surely someone reached out to him after the team event? Maybe if someone who knows Nathan well can just sit down and have a heart-to-heart chat, and help him relax. I don't necessarily think it's a family member either. Nathan could be under added pressure, feeling like he's let so many people down. He truly needs to release that kind of pressure.

There's so little pressure on the top guys now. There's not this 5-quad young gun out there threatening their place on the podium. There's only Jin Boyang, who doesn't have the artistry of the top three. Jin can only sneak in if the top three make too many mistakes. And I don't see that happening. There's no pressure now on the top guys.

It was very sad seeing the shock on Nathan's face and the hyperventilating he was doing in the kiss 'n cry. I'm sad for Raf too.
 
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Well we can pretty much be assured there won't be another "Denis Ten" jump from waaaayy back to the podium with these guys! :rolleyes: :plush: :puppet: :respec:
 
We now need someone else else to take he pressure off of Nathan so he can breathe and shine. Maybe Bradie? She seems solid.

Why does USFS run all, my favorites into the ground?!

They were so desperate to have a star after they destroyed Gracie. Now Nathan.

I just want to give him a big hug!
 
Yes, it was all the hype. I mean, Yuzu, Shoma, Yuna were/are hyped maybe more than Nathan but they are hyped all the time, they are used to it, Nathan got the attention all of sudden, as Yulia :(
 
Wyliefan said:
Why do you say that?
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There was little if any words that passed between them! I hope Nathan isn't blaming his coach, but it looked a lot like Michelle at the Masters when she singled & doubled all her jumps, then fired Frank Carroll just before the GP season of '01!
 
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I'm starting to hope he is blaming his coach a little. I used to have confidence in Raf, but it's eroding really fast. I mean, I know he's not totally responsible for his skaters' results, but when you look at them as a whole, I don't think any of them the past couple of seasons has reached their full potential, and some are actually regressing.
 
Fiero425 said:
That commercial for the Olympics with him as a babe talking about 2018 surely didn't help! It was like Adam's proclamations before Nat'ls that had to make it devastating to fall to 4th, but got to the Olympics anyway thru a pick! :rolleyes:
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It's not what he said back then in and of itself. It's maybe how NBC kept putting it out there so much, over and over and over again. At that young age, Nathan was just calculating in his head at the time how old he would be to maybe have the opportunity to make the Olympics. He was not trying to predict anything. At the tender age of 11, it's not like he was saying that he was going to win the Olympic gold medal in 2018. Over the past year, too many other people have been saying it for him. And apparently, there must have become a disconnect. I thought it would be difficult for Nathan competing all season with the wear and tear, and then the big guns out of GPF having a chance for down time and recuperation. But I didn't think it would cause this level of nerves and inability to perform. The time Yuzu had recuperating allowed him to focus and to remember all the things he did wrong at the last Olympics, and to remind him of his mission. I'm sure that Nathan faltering in the Olympic team comp, also was a boon for his closest competitors. Nathan ended up having more to prove in the Olympic sp that the others did not.

What this brings to mind for me is how USFS simply dumped on Jeremy Abbott in the aftermath of his slightly faltering in his sp at 2010 Olympics. Jeremy came back to land in 9th place overall, but he was good enough to have won the OGM (plus he had two really great programs that season, in addition to heading into those Olympics as U.S. champion, despite USFS favoring Evan Lysacek).

I doubt USFS is going to dump on Nathan the same way they did on Jeremy Abbott. Hopefully, they'll learn something about not placing so much overdone pressure on athletes, especially very young athletes who accomplish record-breaking feats that turn the sport upside down. Like I said earlier, I think Nathan is a very quiet, low-key young man who internalizes so much, that it's really hard to know what he's actually thinking.

It could have been the injuries that stopped Nathan in his tracks. But he seemed to come back from possible career-ending injury even stronger! So again, that's why this result is so surprising. The only thing it's possible to determine is that it was just nerves Nathan has never felt before, which actually changes the way your body feels and reacts, and Nathan just wasn't used to it, and couldn't overcome it. Unfortunately, the apparent added pressure placed on Nathan after he did something incredible that's never been done before simply began to build to the breaking point. It took the rest of the world awhile to take notice of what Nathan achieved last year, but when they did all hell began to break loose. All the attention from sponsors too who don't really understand what figure skating is about. I think that added to the pressure for Nathan.

Another thing though, look at the high level of performance we've seen among the men in the sp. Part of the reason for that high level is what Nathan achieved last year landing five clean quads at back-to-back events. What a shame that he was unable to live up to the standard he set himself. Actually, the wheels came off for Nathan at Worlds 2017 with the boot issues. Apparently, Nathan only partly recovered from that situation psychologically, after being expected to win there too.
 
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Too bad about the rough skate. Nathan didn't live up to his moment. I don't understand adding back the lutz instead of the flip for the combo, and then he couldn't pull off the 4-toe combo either when the lutz went bad. I wish they'd stick with a plan for his programs and train that. But I also think there's some injury that they are not disclosing.

No conspiracy about Fernandez placing above Uno - his PCS are deservedly higher than Unos, plus he maxes his GOE on his jumps while Uno's were scratchy. Jin was terrific (that Lutz!), but the skating in the program is a lot simpler than Uno or Javi.

Nathan looked so shaken afterwards in his interview on NBC, I really hope he can pull his head together and skate a good Free.
 
skatfan said:
I also think there's some injury that they are not disclosing.
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That's actually quite possible, as Nathan really hasn't seemed to be his usual self, even at Nationals. I felt like it might be a foot injury that kept Nathan from performing the quad lutz, because that's always been a consistent jump for him.

So, perhaps it's a combination of the stress over his equipment being right (boots, blades) the huge pressure and resulting difficult to control nerves of performing at the Olympics, and also in the back of Nathan's mind knowing he's not completely 100 percent physically, if that's the case? It might be minor physical problems that have nagged him for several months. Maybe they'll come clean about it at some point. But regardless of what happens now, I'm sure they don't want to put out physical difficulties as some kind of excuse. It is what it is at this point. I just hope he's able to go out in whatever early group he's in and skate the way he's capable of skating.

The thing about this sport is that the judges are fairly harsh, particularly on PCS points once you've messed up in unexpected fashion. This is nothing that can't be overcome, but it is hugely embarrassing for Nathan, his team, USFS, and NBC. But again, put it into perspective, Nathan changed the sport with what he accomplished last season. And the sport reacted with, "Oh well, now we must change the rules on quads." If they are now going to devalue quads, it means they never should have been giving quads that much value in the first place. First not enough value, then way OTT value, and now backtracking when young guns start doing the incredible and the unbelievable, because that's what the sport was so heavily rewarding. :drama: As far as devaluing triples, that's not necessary. They are going to make things even more problematic and confusing.

The sport itself and it's leadership is hugely embarrassing too, IMHO. And everyone bothered by what Nathan achieved last season, is probably happy. But it doesn't really help the sport at all on this the biggest stage to see someone who accomplished such a huge feat no one was even dreaming of, to crash and burn. The problem surrounding the quad phenomenon and other problems the sport faces is lack of leadership and bone-headed mismanagement, in addition to all the country politics. Things will mosey on along in whatever WTF fashion, as usual though in figure skating. At least the pairs event was exciting. We'll see what happens tomorrow in the men's fp. Ice dance will likely live up to its billing. I'm not at all excited about the ladies event. It will be fun to see if everyone can at least skate their best among the ladies and see where the chips fall. But it's not really much excitement there, aside from seeing maybe another triple-axel and unexpected upsets for the podium.

Not to mention Tara with her screeching. There were so many times, I screamed 'Shut up' to the television set. There's no way to enjoy watching with Tara saying annoying, unnecessary, and often wrong stuff! She said something about Shoma Uno maybe being able to stage an upset?! WTH was she talking about?! :rolleyes: Shoma was always in the running as someone who could win it all! And it would not be an upset either.
 
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A lot of little things that just went wrong. Early this last week when Phil said his boots were heavily taped, I wanted Nathan to switch to his new boots so at least they would be properly broken in before the main event. He didn’t, and his boots were tight tonight.

He decided tho add in his 4Lz, after not doing it for weeks because of injury. A risk that was unnecessary.

He fell apart in the TE, and never had a chance to shake off those nerves for the invidual round like Mikhail and Patrick did.

Injuries limited his ability to practice.

And so much hype and pressure.

He’s so bewildered right now. He’s probably hammering quads on practice ice as we speak trying to figure out how everything went wrong.


But by my estimate. He should win worlds. Too many variables are in his favor.
 
aftershocks said:
Nathan strikes me as a quiet guy who probably internalizes a lot that even those close to him aren't always sure what he's thinking? I hope he can somehow find his mojo. Surely someone reached out to him after the fp?

...

It was very sad seeing the shock on Nathan's face and the hyperventilating he was doing in the kiss 'n cry. I'm sad for Raf too.
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People mentioned in the PBP thread that Nathan has changed his jump layouts a lot lately, even between the TE SP and tonight. I haven't noticed that Raf's other skaters do the same, so is it a Nathan thing? Given the reports that he went right back to practicing quads after the TE SP, he might be the kind of person to try everything until something happens to work. And if it stops working, switch it up again. I'm not sure if this is the case - I didn't pay tooooo much attention to his jump layouts this season, but it struck me as an odd observation.

It may be his youth and inexperience, but sometimes you gotta let things settle a little before switching it up again. :(
 
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