Nathan Chen (#Slaythan Fans) thread

[aftershocks]

USFSA should have sent him back out for the Team event LP to help him shake off the SP.

That wasn't necessary. They are reaching saying that. Adam was the right person to send out for the fp in the team event. There wasn't any need to change strategy there. And I don't think it would have helped Nathan either. There was a lot of pressure going on with the Italians close. Adam needed to be out there too, as a high profile athlete at these Olympics. That's not even a suggestion that should have been floated. I wish everyone could try to keep level heads in their analysis.

Most of the figure skating coverage has been so lame and all over the place though. What else is new?!

 

[Frida80]

People mentioned in the PBP thread that Nathan has changed his jump layouts a lot lately, even between the TE SP and tonight. I haven't noticed that Raf's other skaters do the same, so is it a Nathan thing? Given the reports that he went right back to practicing quads after the TE SP, he might be the kind of person to try everything until something happens to work. And if it stops working, switch it up again. I'm not sure if this is the case - I didn't pay tooooo much attention to his jump layouts this season, but it struck me as an odd observation.

It may be his youth and inexperience, but sometimes you gotta let things settle a little before switching it up again.

That’s exactly what he does. He stopped doing that briefly in 2016, after TdF when he bombed him FS. Raf got him to stick with one layout. He eventually got better and then had that phenomenal skate at the 2016 GPF and the rest is history.

The problem happed this year after we randomly switched his layout at the CoR because he kept popping his 4Lo in practice. He didn’t feel confident, so he switched last minute to his trusty 4Lz+3T. That probably made him think he could change his layout when ever he wanted. Which didn’t work during his FS at SA or GPF2017. But did at nationals.

They approached the Olympics incorrectly. This is not another competition. This is the Olympics. He needed to be ready. His jumps needed to be ready. He wasn’t. And that is why this happened.

 

[Interludes]

I do think there was a lot going on behind the scenes with Nathan this season - whether it was injuries or something else. Everything just felt a little askew. It’s a shame that his Olympics had to go like this, but I’m glad he has his family there to support him. Hopefully he can go out there and have a skate he can be proud of tomorrow.

ETA: I do feel like he was unprepared for this event, not sure who is to blame for that - Raf, Nathan himself - the both of them together. They should have had a plan and stuck with it, he shouldn’t be still playing around with layouts the day he competes. Curious to see where they go from here..

 

[aftershocks]

...his boots were tight tonight. He fell apart in the TE, and never had a chance to shake off those nerves for the invidual round like Mikhail and Patrick did.

Injuries limited his ability to practice.

And so much hype and pressure.

He’s so bewildered right now. He’s probably hammering quads on practice ice as we speak trying to figure out how everything went wrong.

But by my estimate. He should win worlds. Too many variables are in his favor.

What are you saying? First of all, Nathan's other boots would have been loosened up and ready. He wasn't going to put on boots that hadn't already been broken-in. He just didn't want to overwork his broken-in boots at practices. All of this has been new and a work-in-progress for Nathan. He's been dealing with the boots issue, and with so many new things coming his way ever since he decided to throw in that 5th quad at 2017 Nationals, just because he could.

Nathan went to the practice rink right after the team event and he was landing quads. I think that whatever is wrong could be any combination of things that was not going to suddenly be worked out on the practice rink, and most certainly not by having Nathan go back out there in the fp for the team event. There was no reason to do that. He would most definitely have been too worn out, trying to do four programs at his first Olympics. That was never in the cards for USFS strategy. Never.

Please let's stay within reason with our analysis. The fact remains that we do not know what's going to happen either tomorrow, three days from now, and most certainly not at Worlds. The skate gods seem to be in an antsy mood right about now. Skate gods most definitely were tired of T/M's Candyman, and maybe Nathan's Vera Wang outfits just threw things off too much. Skate gods looked askance.

Let's try to lighten up our bewilderment. I hope Nathan's friends and his teammates can try to simply make him laugh, shrug it off and relax. It's not the end of the world. He does need to begin to feel much more relaxed and loose. One thing Johnny said is true. It's hard to perform like you can when your legs are tight.

 

[Anita18]

That’s exactly what he does. He stopped doing that briefly in 2016, after TdF when he bombed him FS. Raf got him to stick with one layout. He eventually got better and then had that phenomenal skate at the 2016 GPF and the rest is history.

The problem happed this year after we randomly switched his layout at the CoR because he kept popping his 4Lo in practice. He didn’t feel confident, so he switched last minute to his trusty 4Lz+3T. That probably made him think he could change his layout when ever he wanted. Which didn’t work during his FS at SA or GPF2017. But did at nationals.

They approached the Olympics incorrectly. This is not another competition. This is the Olympics. He needed to be ready. His jumps needed to be ready. He wasn’t. And that is why this happened.

Thanks for the background. It does sound like Nathan needs to slow his roll. Hopefully that'll be part of his growing-up process.

 

[Frida80]

What are you saying? Nathan went to the practice rink right after the team event and he was landing quads. I think that whatever is wrong could be any combination of things that was not going to suddenly be worked out on the practice rink, and most certainly not by having Nathan go back out there in the fp for the team event. There was no reason to do that. He would most definitely have been too worn out, trying to do four programs at his first Olympics. That was never in the cards for USFS strategy. Never.

Please let's stay within reason with our analysis. The fact remains that we do not know what's going to happen either tomorrow, three days from now, and most certainly not at Worlds. The skate gods seem to be in an antsy mood right about now. Skate gods most definitely were tired of T/M's Candyman, and maybe Nathan's Vera Wang outfits just threw things off too much. Skate gods looked askance.

Let's try to lighten up our bewilderment. I hope Nathan's friends and his teammates can try to simply make him laugh, shrug it off and relax. It's not the end of the world. He does need to begin to feel much more relaxed and loose. One thing Johnny said is true. It's hard to perform like you can when your legs are tight.

For the record I never wanted him to do both programs because I strongly believed it would wear him out. I’ve been saying it all season, while people desperately wanted him to do both for various reasons.

But a bad program sticks to you like a bad funk. It’s so hard to shake it off. As soon as Yuzuru arrive, his practices changed on a dime. He went from landing most of his jumps to only half of them!

I wish he’s been competing against Yuzuru all season. Something to keep him focused and kept the nerves in check. I have always said that Tara won because she had Michelle to compete against and to help her ignore those Olympic nerves she would’ve had if she competed solo.

Hard to be light right now. Maybe in a few days...

 

[Frida80]

They'll probably drop it all on Mirai. She's infinitely more media-friendly than Bradie.

She’s my other favorite! I adore her! I don’t want her to go through the machine again!

In fact, can we kill the machine? I’m sick of it.

 

[Firedancer]

So sad for Nathan! He looked so lost in his interview after his program! Something has seemed just a little bit off at times this season. I hope tomorrow he is able to put out a good FS and move up a lot.

 

[MRani]

Heartbroken for Nathan. Hugs and good vibes to all his fans here. He’s such an amazing talent and I just hope he can have a strong FS and make a positive Olympic memory for himself tomorrow, regardless of the medals. That’s not even important anymore.

 

[shine]

I do think there was a lot going on behind the scenes with Nathan this season - whether it was injuries or something else. Everything just felt a little askew. It’s a shame that his Olympics had to go like this, but I’m glad he has his family there to support him. Hopefully he can go out there and have a skate he can be proud of tomorrow.

ETA: I do feel like he was unprepared for this event, not sure who is to blame for that - Raf, Nathan himself - the both of them together. They should have had a plan and stuck with it, he shouldn’t be still playing around with layouts the day he competes. Curious to see where they go from here..

Ditto...the entire post.

 

[aftershocks]

Thanks for the background. It does sound like Nathan needs to slow his roll. Hopefully that'll be part of his growing-up process.

^^ Nathan has already dealt with a huge amount growing up. Let's not throw everything out the window and forget how he's been beating so many guys older than himself for his entire career. It's not really so much about growing up, as it is about gaining the experience of dealing with things outside of your comfort zone. In addition, there has been something seemingly physical and with his equipment that has been going on all season that has had Nathan somewhat off his game. He was just managing to squeak by though with good enough performances, and due to the rep he'd achieved with his accomplishments.

Nathan also was never in a real difficult pressure situation as the season progressed. It may have thrown him off even that his biggest rivals were not at GPF. But GPF in and of itself is not that important to guys like Yuzu who were gunning for the Olympics. Yuzu was worried about Nathan more than anything else. But it worked out for Yuzu, and I think Yuzu has Nathan in a sense to thank for him overworking on quads to the point of injury. That forced Yuzu to stop the grind. He had some down time to put things into perspective, to fully recover and to set his sights on the Olympics. Nathan has been on the go with too many sponsors and off-ice hype. It's important to understand how to balance that, particularly for a young guy new to that kind of attention. Yuzu is used to the attention and to the bright spotlight.

The fact that the sport was set back on its heels with Nathan's accomplishments, and everyone has been reacting and over-reacting ever since, likely added to the pressure Nathan was experiencing, but maybe he thought he was taking it in stride, and he really wasn't. A lot of comments from Orser and his skaters were directly targeted toward Nathan and the other young guns, because suddenly those complacent guys at the top were looking over their shoulders. Well, it seems to have worked out the way Orser has been dreaming. Another gold medal victory that redeems for him losing twice in close contests at the Olympics to a U.S. rival. It definitely looks like a victory for Orser and Yuzu tomorrow. The judges want to reward Yuzu I'm sure, and Yuzu has always wanted to redeem his poor fp performance at 2014 Olympics in Sochi.

 

[aftershocks]

For the record I never wanted him to do both programs because I strongly believed it would wear him out. I’ve been saying it all season, while people desperately wanted him to do both for various reasons.

But a bad program sticks to you like a bad funk. It’s so hard to shake it off. As soon as Yuzuru arrive, his practices changed on a dime. He went from landing most of his jumps to only half of them!

I wish he’s been competing against Yuzuru all season. Something to keep him focused and kept the nerves in check. I have always said that Tara won because she had Michelle to compete against and to help her ignore those Olympic nerves she would’ve had if she competed solo.

Hard to be light right now. Maybe in a few days...

Ummm, are you in Pyeongchang?? Moreover, are you in Nathan's head? Nathan couldn't compete against Yuzu all season because Yuzu got injured and he had to recuperate. And that seems to have helped Yuzu quite a bit. It didn't help Nathan exactly. But there are definitely other more important factors for why Nathan has underperformed so far at these Olympics, that have nothing to do with Yuzu.

Nathan doesn't need Yuzu "to keep himself focused and keep the nerves in check." Again, what are you saying? You're not making too much sense. Let's take a deep breath and relax ourselves. It's just sport. And right now, we do not know what's going to happen. All we can say for certain is that Nathan is no longer contending for a gold medal at Pyeongchang Olympics. And maybe Nathan should never have been touted as an Olympic gold medal favorite, but just as one of at least six or so top contenders.

 

[nimi]

Scott Hamilton tweeted his support:

.@nathanwchen I respect you. I admire you. I believe in you. Today was a difficult day. Tomorrow is up to you! #GoGetEm

(And Michelle Kwan is feeling for him, too.)


The other Chen chiming in:

My heart goes out to @nathanwchen so much rn. I feel you. I really do. We all do. However, I still believe that you will KILL IT in the long. Bruh, we seriously all BELIEVE in youuuu! You got this!

 

[Spiralgraph]

I just got on line to this news about Nathan. Poor guy, I feel badly for him. He must be bewildered at his performance.He's not as impervious to pressure as a lot of people assumed.
I hope he can regroup and skate solidly in the LP.

 

[olympic]

Praying he can respond the way she did!

Or Kurt Browning in 1994 Lillehamer or Elaine Zayak in 1982!

ETA - I was watching Nathan in the warm-up. He seemed almost catatonic and unfocused and for me, he had a defeated look in his eye. The same awful feeling came over last night that I felt watching Debi Thomas in 1988 or Sasha Cohen in 2006 as they took the ice in the LP.

Perhaps it was only nerves. He was at his best when he was the upstart. But, when he is lumped in with the best, he seems to suffer like a mere mortal. But, I wonder if he is having a growth spurt. He looks bigger than he did last year and when you are talking quads, it doesn't take much to throw you off.

 

[LarrySK8]

Why all this babble and analysis? He choked. He choked again. It was nerves and his knees got stiff - can't skate or jump normally like that. It is simple, especially since he can do the elements right after choking, it proves he simply choked.

 

[edwina]

He could win a medal still, that would be as much of a win now as the gold.

 

[kittysk8ts]

Well, we cannot claim to know what was going through Nathan's head, or Raf's, unless they tell us, and I am not sure it matters right now. I just know a young man's dreams were shattered in front of the whole world and my heart is broken for him He cannot win a medal here now, but he CAN hopefully have a decent free and finish off these Games on a good note, which is what I feel is most important right now, for HIM.

Go Nathan. I will be cheering for him.

 

[aftershocks]

He's not as impervious to pressure as a lot of people assumed.

I don't think anyone ever said that Nathan is "impervious to pressure." Do you know what 'impervious' means? Please look it up and come again. What most people felt from Nathan's demeanor and his past determined, gutsy performances is that he can handle pressure. But the Olympics and all of the OTT attention is a completely different animal. That was always the danger. He seemed to be handling it okay, because he has a low-key laid-back personality and he said all the right things. But quite clearly the white hot light of media attention and outside sponsors taking up your off-ice time is always a danger. It was underestimated how much Nathan would be able to weather. The thing is he has such a low-key personality, it's really difficult to know exactly what Nathan is thinking. Even Raf has mentioned that before.

I think that someone who knows Nathan should have recognized some of these dangers and intervened to provide some guidance. The problem is if family are used to seeing Nathan always handling everything well and even they did not recognize what was going on inside his head. There's been a lot going on all season long. You have to go back and fully understand what Nathan achieved last season. Nobody has done that before. He did it a third time at this year's Nationals with five clean quads, but not with a completely clean performance. Let someone else accomplish what Nathan accomplished with the records he has set first, before looking down on him at this point and throwing subtle darts.

Phil Hersh has written another Nathan recap: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2018/02/16/266569802

It's fairly okay, and it shows some restraint, which Phil has been learning. Still, I can detect under the surface Phil wanting to lash out at Nathan for not living up to all they'd written him up to be and expected from him. Phil says, "There's no way to sugarcoat this, to find a silver lining or a saving grace..." As if that was what anyone was doing regarding Nathan's performance in the team event. I said that the team event performance by Nathan was 'not a complete flop.' And it wasn't. Nathan landed the first quad flip in Olympic competition and he completed that jumping pass and he got some credit for the 3-axel he fell on, but nothing for the popped jump. He lost about 20 or so points.

Even if Nathan had skated well and landed in first or second place in the team event, the U.S. would not have won silver. There was more of a chance, but the U.S. team would still have come in about a point or so behind Russia, even with Nathan skating to his full ability. Obviously, Nathan's performance yesterday was a complete flop because he lost a lot more points, and he missed on every jumping pass, and there's no teammates to lift him up. He won 7 points in the team event, which helped the U.S. win a bronze medal. The most Nathan can do now in the singles is to try and skate with freedom, just for himself, and to remember why he was drawn to skating. Nathan will hopefully be able to approach the fp with a clean slate and as a chance to have some fun out there and not even think about anything else. We don't need to put anymore expectations on him everyone, so please do stop.

 

[jiejie]

Through the magic of NBC live streaming and access via Comcast Xfinity, I was able to watch the men's final group practice session that occurred a few hours before Nathan's competition appearance. Nathan looked--not good. He did some mostly lackluster jumping before they played his music--lots of mistakes and little cleanliness. Certainly no quadfest, though that might have been by design to conserve energy. He didn't do a true run-through, just some of the choreography in parts. But unlike some of the skaters in that group, he did stay on the full session even though a lot of it was just skating around in circles. Rafael was looking his usual grim self at the boards, and Nathan did skate over occasionally for water and comments. I got the impression that something was wrong and thought that the SP might not go too well. But I was surprised to see that level of problems with all jumping passes in the actual competition. I would have thought it was 100% pressure and competition nerves meltdown, had I not seen that practice. So I dunno....

It would be wonderful if he can somehow pull a Mao Asada Sochi Redemption Skate rabbit out of his hat for the free and pull himself up to a respectable final position (medal out of the question now), but I think it unlikely.

 

[kittysk8ts]

We don't need to put anymore expectations on him.

Agree. Poor fella. I just want him to feel happy again and see that beautiful smile. That is all I want for him right now.

 

[NAOTMAA]

Wasn't Nathan sick or something for like half the season? I seem to recall it first mentioned at SA that he caught something at his previous GP event and was still feeling blah. And that he was still under the weather at the GPF. Johnny then mentioned it again at nationals when they said his programs were watered down because of slow training due to it.

It seemed something was off with him the majority of the season but it only got passingly mentioned and completely buried under all the media hype. He's been all over the place skating wise since SA free

At least that's what I recall or maybe I'm overblowing it because that's why sticks out in my mind

 

[AxelAnnie]

I think Vera Wang may have cursed him. It is all in the costume! Ask Ashley.

 

[Spiralgraph]

I don't think anyone ever said that Nathan is "impervious to pressure." Do you know what 'impervious' means? Please look it up and come again. .

Yes Aftershocks I know what impervious means. And I think I'm right, certainly NBC and perhaps Phil Hersch with all the attention and focus on him as the chosen one assumed that he could skate very well into the top three or to six with an excellent chance for gold, and Nathan could just deflect the magnified attention with ease.
Not so fast, NBC. Nothing is guaranteed in sports.

 

[AxelAnnie]

I keep thinking I am going to log on and find out he had withdrawn

 

[Anita18]

Through the magic of NBC live streaming and access via Comcast Xfinity, I was able to watch the men's final group practice session that occurred a few hours before Nathan's competition appearance. Nathan looked--not good. He did some mostly lackluster jumping before they played his music--lots of mistakes and little cleanliness. Certainly no quadfest, though that might have been by design to conserve energy. He didn't do a true run-through, just some of the choreography in parts. But unlike some of the skaters in that group, he did stay on the full session even though a lot of it was just skating around in circles. Rafael was looking his usual grim self at the boards, and Nathan did skate over occasionally for water and comments. I got the impression that something was wrong and thought that the SP might not go too well. But I was surprised to see that level of problems with all jumping passes in the actual competition. I would have thought it was 100% pressure and competition nerves meltdown, had I not seen that practice. So I dunno....

Someone can display competition nerves by being wishy-washy in practice. Switching his jump layout so often AND not practicing efficiently could certainly point to that.

(Sorry I’m so interested in the jump layout switching, it’s just so weird he was doing that so close to the Olympics...)

 

[nguyhm]

I'm so heartbroken for Nathan and I feel so so bad for him. I've been very worried watching his skating's quality deteriorating from one competition to the next. I'm not an expert but constantly changing out the lay outs has not shown to work and I was hoping that his team saw that after Skate America then GPF. Granted that he won but his long programs got messier and messier. I don't question his abilities I know he can do the jumps and improve on artistry, an effort which I greatly appreciate. However doing all at the same time is not effective and definitely not productive. I understand the need for flexibility but it should be stopped once it becomes chaotic. Not to put blames on anyone since I don't know who in his team is responsible for what yet as a whole they should not forget that Nathan is barely 18 years old. Granted that he has a strong head on his shoulder and is more matured than most he's still 18 years old and he does not have all the answers. The fact that he looks up to other sport figures is encouraging and is a sign that he's still learning, why don't they stir him right. How many times have we heard athletes saying that they rely on their training as a way to cope with nerves when competing on a big stage. How can changing lay outs at every competition allow Nathan to go on auto pilot and do what he does best.
Sending big hugs to Nathan and I wish him the best! Nathan, you're always my hero!

 

[aftershocks]

Yes Aftershocks I know what impervious means. And I think I'm right, certainly NBC and perhaps Phil Hersch with all the attention and focus on him as the chosen one assumed that he could skate very well into the top three or to six with an excellent chance for gold, and Nathan could just deflect the magnified attention with ease.
Not so fast, NBC. Nothing is guaranteed in sports.

Sure NBC went overboard, and I don't think Phil Hersh and some other reporters stayed very grounded about Nathan's achievements, because there has been so much overdone gung-ho guff about quads. I always maintained my perspective and celebrated and supported Nathan, because I've enjoyed watching him since he won his first Junior National championships. Once again, no one ever said that Nathan is 'impervious to pressure,' just that he seemed to be tough and smart and able to handle it well. Nathan also always qualified his comments about what he felt he would be capable of doing.

Everyone is right in their own head about how they are perceiving what happened, which doesn't actually make any of us right in reality. And that's spelled 'Hersh,' btw. Fact of the matter is that Nathan did have an excellent chance to challenge for gold, but never did Nathan ever discount any of his opponents. And just the fact that Nathan went bust in Team Event and men's sp, does not mean he didn't have a chance to challenge for gold in singles. He most certainly did have a chance. He'd won all the competitions he'd entered this season, beating Hanyu and Shoma, et al. Several wins were close calls, and a few Nathan won with less than clean performances, but he still won. There are few men, since quads became important, who have been able to consistently sustain clean performances. Nathan absolutely raised the bar with his accomplishments last season. Please keep in mind that Nathan's uncharacteristically poor showing so far at these Olympics does not erase anything he's previously accomplished in record-breaking fashion. The way people look at this sport is always so five minutes ago!

A lot of people are being rather simplistic, thoughtless and random with their comments, but what else is new after experiencing emotionally draining fs events! I don't characterize your comments that way specifically, but you do seem to be a bit like "I told you so," with your stance. Which is fine, of course, and an easy tack to take.

Tee hee @jiejie, it's so easy for you to say you got an impression of something being wrong. Yeah, I get the impression that something is wrong with the world, and figure skating coverage mostly sucks, but that latter is not just an impression. Would you like to go out on a limb and say there will be another catastrophic, mind-numbing and horrible shooting spree that happens in the United States and/or somewhere else in the world before you die, or before the world ends? It's pretty obvious anyway that something has been not quite right with Nathan for some time. The OTT Vera Wang 'Evan Lysacek-like' costumes did not help matters either. Keep in mind figure skating fans, that lots of things can be 'not quite right' during warm-up for any number of skaters, which is not always an indication of how they are going to perform when their name is called.

 

[jiejie]

Tee hee @jiejie, it's so easy for you to say you got an impression of something being wrong. Yeah, I get the impression that something is wrong with the world, and figure skating coverage mostly sucks, but that latter is not just an impression. Would you like to go out on a limb and say there will be another catastrophic, mind-numbing and horrible shooting spree that happens in the United States and/or somewhere else in the world before you die, or before the world ends? It's pretty obvious anyway that something has been not quite right with Nathan for some time. The OTT Vera Wang 'Evan Lysacek-like' costumes did not help matters either. Keep in mind figure skating fans, that lots of things can be 'not quite right' in warm-up for any number of skaters, which is not always an indication of how they are going to perform when their name is called.

You are babbling with randomness. Conciseness, economy of words, and sticking to the point is your friend. I do tend to only scan your posts since I don't have time to read lengthly tomes word for word, so maybe I missed something profound up in there. As for my impression, yes, it was my impression. As in: not based on known facts or press reports. As in: opinion based on gut feel that it's not 100% nerves/pressure. Am I not entitled to voicing an opinion?

 

[aftershocks]

I know he can do the jumps and improve on artistry, an effort which I greatly appreciate. However doing all at the same time is not effective and definitely not productive. I understand the need for flexibility but it should be stopped once it becomes chaotic.

Who are you? Frank Carroll or something?

Why can't skaters do the jumps and improve on artistry at the same time? It is possible to pat your head and rub circles on your stomach at the same time. Are you telling us quads are too hard or something?