Music rights clearance issues (policy being implemented by the ISU starting in 2024)

[Rob]

Haguenauer disagrees

Hopefully, Haguenauer has disposable income!

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

Although Murphy Brown was one of the most popular TV series of the 80s/90s, apparently it will never be released on DVD or streamed because the music rights (mostly to the songs that Murphy sang so badly ) are so expensive. Directors and producers of music-related documentaries are having the same problem.

That's been a problem with several older shows. WKRP in Cincinnati eventually managed to be released on DVD but, as they couldn't get the music rights for all of the songs, some were cut out or replaced by more generic pieces of music.

 

[Prancer]

Youtube obviously has the same technology and there are some videos that I cannot upload at all because of copyrights- all countries are banned from using certain pieces, and some aren't even that well-known.

YouTube's algorithm (and I imagine everyone else's) is pretty ridiculous, though. For example, I have recordings of all my guitar recitals on YouTube and they are all private primarily because of music challenges--some to things like Mozart and Chopin. If there is a video of the music being played somewhere, you can get flagged, even for music that is obviously in the public domain. I know pianists who have been flagged for the same.

I have a number of pieces that are open for use provided I identify the arranger/composer in my program notes; I have the names on my videos as well, but still YouTube flags them.

Apparently, years before I had my YouTube channel, the artist, Joaquin Rodrigo, contacted YouTube about it.

Rodrigo died in 1999; YouTube was founded in 2005. It's possible his estate contacted YouTube; Rodrigo was rather famously protective of his piece back in the 60s and was irate at pop and jazz versions, but gradually came around to the idea that those versions helped spread his music to broader audiences. But I think it's more likely that the version Michelle skates to is copyrighted and that's what YouTube is flagging.

 

[floridaice]

Although Murphy Brown was one of the most popular TV series of the 80s/90s, apparently it will never be released on DVD or streamed because the music rights (mostly to the songs that Murphy sang so badly ) are so expensive. Directors and producers of music-related documentaries are having the same problem.

That's been a problem with several older shows. WKRP in Cincinnati eventually managed to be released on DVD but, as they couldn't get the music rights for all of the songs, some were cut out or replaced by more generic pieces of music.

Same with China Beach - which I really loved. It was 2013 before all the licensing could be obtained -- 250+ songs.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

Same with China Beach - which I really loved. It was 2013 before all the licensing could be obtained -- 250+ songs.

Correct as I also got the China Beach DVD set when it was finally released.

 

[Karen-W]

There was at least one song used on "Alias" that the producers secured the music rights for on the original DVD release back in 2002-03-ish, but by the time it was made available for streaming, they changed it to something that was easier/cheaper to pay for the rights of. I'm sure lots of older TV shows are in the same situation.

 

[Colonel Green]

For TV and movies these issues are very era-specific. TV prior to the mid-1980s, for instance, made relatively little use of contemporary music, but things like Miami Vice changed that; and shows before the mid-2000s often didn't optimize their rights purchases for home media or streaming. Stuff before or after that period tends to be fine.

 

[jmtfti]

There was at least one song used on "Alias" that the producers secured the music rights for on the original DVD release back in 2002-03-ish, but by the time it was made available for streaming, they changed it to something that was easier/cheaper to pay for the rights of. I'm sure lots of older TV shows are in the same situation.

Lots of turn-of-the-millennium shows fell into this weird gap. Music was huge on some of the teen dramas -- and often indie music at that -- but while the network would promote the artists after each episode, the rights for even DVD distribution weren't secured, let alone for streaming years later (I think standard on-air syndicated reruns were the only thing covered). So everything, save one or two songs across the entire series, would end up replaced with generic vaguely-sound-alikes. Much like USFS's social media clips of people's programs, to bring this back around on topic, lol.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

I think that happened with Queer as Folk…

 

[NinjaTurtles]

There was at least one song used on "Alias" that the producers secured the music rights for on the original DVD release back in 2002-03-ish, but by the time it was made available for streaming, they changed it to something that was easier/cheaper to pay for the rights of. I'm sure lots of older TV shows are in the same situation.

It's a very noted issue for the TV show Scrubs, where it had a very nicely curated and expansive soundtrack where the music design was pretty central to many plots.

This is one of the reasons why I'm a believer of physical media. We're going to lose a lot of art and experience by relying so heavily (and for many exclusively) on digital media and streaming.

 

[Sylvia]

ICYMI - this detailed article was posted on the first page of this thread:

Making Music in Skating Legal
As music copyright laws begin to be enforced, challenges abound by Anna Keller (Oct. 6, 2024):

Making Music in Skating Legal

The question of music copyrights is looming large over the sport of figure skating, worrying skaters, fans, and musicians alike.

anythinggoe.com

A few excerpts:

According to Team USA sources, the ISU wanted to require proof of copyright starting with this season’s Junior Grand Prix. However, federations resisted, arguing it was too short a notice period, and the ISU backed down from the requirement.
During the broadcast of the Junior Grand Prix in Ostrava, Ted Barton answered a viewer question about music restrictions, noting “The music rights are a big issue right now in our sport. The ISU says that skaters must have their music cleared. Particularly next year – they are asking for it this year as well. So they have a ClicknClear program. That program allows a skater to go in and register their music and see if that program can clear it, or see if there are clearance rights available and how much it will cost. It is becoming completely different. We used to have just classical music, now we have all different types of music. I could see a trend going back to classical, because there is not really much of a fee for classical music, and/or those pieces that are on a musical site, that you can purchase the rights as part of the licensing. That is changing, and we’ll see the impact next season more than this season.”

Rob Colling is a musician and music editor who works with many figure skaters, including Piper Gilles and Paul Poirier, under the name “The Skating Music Guy”. He has been following the copyright issue closely.
“I’ve always said to my clients, I am providing a service. You send me music files, I do not buy them for you. And I edit them the way you want them edited, and then I send you a thing back, but that’s a service. It’s not a product. And you bear all the responsibility for everything you asked me to do. I think that is the correct legal basis for people like me. But it’s kind of tough because that makes me another person, alongside the Fed, alongside the lawyers, who are just shoveling all the responsibility onto the skaters, and the coaches, and the parents. Now, as a skater or as a parent, or as a coach, you are facing an entire industry and an entire sport that’s always saying to you, ‘Well do what you want, but you bear all the legal responsibility if things go wrong, and it’s nothing to do with us.’”
In a way, Colling notes, “Nothing’s different. It’s always been that most of the skating music that’s used in the world is illegal. That still is the case. [USFS] is just saying, ‘We’re trying to cover you a bit, you know? We’re trying to get this blanket license and make at least some of it legal.’ They’re trying to make it easy. On the whole, it’s kind of a good thing, but there’s also a lot of factors beyond that that they can’t control, and it’s just it’s a difficult situation, and [ends up] in the same place, which is, skaters, coaches, parents, it’s your fault, whatever happens, now you know you take responsibility for it. If you get sued, tough.”

Currently, the ISU is gathering this information and learning how much music they will be able to clear.
This year, the ISU has consolidated its YouTube presence into a single channel, which is available worldwide (with content locked in countries with broadcasting rights to the events). With videos of individual performances on the ISU’s channel, YouTube’s ContentID system recognizes and monetizes the music.
At the June 2024 ISU Congress, there was also some discussion about moving competition livestreams to a proprietary platform, which presumably would charge viewers a fee. It’s possible that the need to generate revenue to cover music licensing might encourage the ISU toward a subscription model, although nothing has yet been announced.

Reply in the comments by Brian Birge, posted on October 6, 2024 at 9:10 pm:

As a musician I’ve seen this not only in skating but all over the place, other sports, video games, politics, even other musicians who reuse without credit. The world seems bent on devaluing musicians and their works to such an extent that it’s the default expectation that we must work for free or at best “exposure”. And then AI enters the picture making everything even more devalued to people who just want it for background to their primary purpose, whatever that happens to be. Maybe these people should consider that a solution is to pay composers and arrangers and musicians what they need to produce original works for their specific use.

 

[Wyliefan]

Maybe the funniest example of rights issues gone wrong is the "Cheers" episode where Sam tries everything to find out which song makes Rebecca go crazy. He finally finds out it's "You've Lost That Loving Feeling." So if you're watching a rerun nowadays, he goes to the jukebox and plays ... "Unchained Melody."

 

[Simone411]

YouTube's algorithm (and I imagine everyone else's) is pretty ridiculous, though. For example, I have recordings of all my guitar recitals on YouTube and they are all private primarily because of music challenges--some to things like Mozart and Chopin. If there is a video of the music being played somewhere, you can get flagged, even for music that is obviously in the public domain. I know pianists who have been flagged for the same.

I have a number of pieces that are open for use provided I identify the arranger/composer in my program notes; I have the names on my videos as well, but still YouTube flags them.

Rodrigo died in 1999; YouTube was founded in 2005. It's possible his estate contacted YouTube; Rodrigo was rather famously protective of his piece back in the 60s and was irate at pop and jazz versions, but gradually came around to the idea that those versions helped spread his music to broader audiences. But I think it's more likely that the version Michelle skates to is copyrighted and that's what YouTube is flagging.

I knew Rodrigo had died. It was years later when I started my YouTube channel. I know it was about 2 years after I came home from NurseCare when I started that channel. That was around 2014. About a year after that, I had uploaded the video of Michelle's FS to Aranjuez from the 2003 Worlds.

It wasn't too long after that when I noticed people posting and saying that they were so excited because they could finally hear the music, and several of them were thanking me. Within about 3 weeks, I noticed that there were 35,000 views.

Some of them said they had been searching for a video with sound because the sound had been deleted with the other videos. I don't know what happened. I'm just saying that for the longest, I had the only video with sound. The ones that posted mentioned that YouTube had deleted the sound on the other videos. So, something happened with that.

ETA: I've noticed lately that others with channels have posted Michelle's FS to Aranjuez, and you can hear the music again.

I also just did a YouTube search and found there are several videos of Michelle's FS.

2003 Worlds Michelle Kwan FS Aranjuez

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[Colonel Green]

It's a very noted issue for the TV show Scrubs, where it had a very nicely curated and expansive soundtrack where the music design was pretty central to many plots.

This is one of the reasons why I'm a believer of physical media. We're going to lose a lot of art and experience by relying so heavily (and for many exclusively) on digital media and streaming.

Physical media has the same problem to varying degrees. Lots of old shows (and some movies) couldn't be released on DVD with their proper soundtrack either.

 

[Sylvia]

I originally saw this news posted on X re. Mrazkova/Mrazek's FD ("they had to change the music because the music author had requests they were unable to fulfill") and found a mention in the Czech federation's article/team preview for Euros - Google translated excerpt:

Kateřina and Daniel Mrázek ... even changed the entire free program, or rather the music for it. "There were copyright problems with our original music for the free skate. So we chose different music, specifically [Ezio Bosso's Rain] In Your Black Eyes, which the coaches slightly modified just for us. Of course, this meant that we had to make changes so that everything would fit into the music," explains Daniel Mrázek. "I think it came out very well and we like it," adds Kateřina.

According to wiki, the Mrazeks' original FD music was from Kerry Muzzey's 2014 album titled The Architect.

 

[Sylvia]

Did a search on X and came across this post re. Mrazeks' FD music during the GP: https://x.com/plus5goe/status/1852903525153403058

What’s the issue with the Mrazek’s FD music? The SkAm version got taken down and now this one is muted. I assume a copyright issue but why only them?? Not good for the team or the sport when we can’t watch their FD with music #GPFRA #GPFigure

 

[Orm Irian]

According to wiki, the Mrazeks' original FD music was from Kerry Muzzey's 2014 album titled The Architect.

That is unusual, because Golubeva/Giotopoulos Moore used music from that album in their SP for two seasons with no issues. Though perhaps they were able to meet the composer's requirements in that case, while the Mrazeks weren't?

 

[Sylvia]

^^^ I think it's more likely that the composer was unaware his music was being used in a skating program.

 

[DORISPULASKI]

That is unusual, because Golubeva/Giotopoulos Moore used music from that album in their SP for two seasons with no issues. Though perhaps they were able to meet the composer's requirements in that case, while the Mrazeks weren't?

Did the Mrazeks go changing the tempo or superimpose a beat? That has often been done in ice dance, but is not usual in other disciplines, like pairs. If so, I can imagine a composer who would not be amused

 

[Frau Muller]

US waits in the flight in US fairs? Voting for world…

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

US waits in the flight in US fairs? Voting for world…

What in the universe are you trying to communicate?

 

[TorontoSkateFan]

From ISU Communication No. 2671 - Decisions of the Council (Oct. 1, 2024):

6. Music rights clearance issues
The Council noted the concerns of the Figure Skating family with regards to Music rights clearance issues, acknowledging that there is no quick and easy solution to this complex legal matter that must nonetheless be addressed by all Figure Skating athletes. The ISU has been working with the company ClicknClear (https://www.clicknclear.com/licensingplatform-guide & https://www.clicknclear.com/faqs), which provides one option for clearing music rights. A module on the ISU eRink explains the music rights issues and how to use ClicknClear, and further guidance on this option will be available shortly.

ETA - creating this thread to continue the discussion that took place in the summer in the "US Figure Skating Music Policy" thread.

You need to read this regarding ClicknClear - do not use them:

Letter to FTC 20240925 (Sec).pdf

drive.google.com