Misty Copeland of American Ballet Theater

Misty's limbs are long, but her overall height is short. I've not been regularly getting back here that often lately to schmooze and debate and write my lengthy points-of-view, as life has a way of happening.

Truthfully, everyone can and will think and perceive as they wish. It's often pointless to carry on conversations when we are talking past each other and/ or confusing what each other are saying because of seeing things from only our own individual rigid perspectives. Actually, I am seeing and understanding a lot of what people are saying, and there are a number of things being discussed, some of which are being confused. But if anyone is set on thinking that I am engaging in "bad behavior" in this thread, then I really doubt you care to read or truly understand what I'm saying anyway. You see "aftershocks," and it's over already! Yep, that aftershocks, why bother reading or listening! Oh well, sorry if I ever stepped on your toes and you can't forget the pain. :lol:

...


In any case, I think it's disingenuous to dismiss the relevance and significance of Misty being a woman of color promoted to principal ballerina at a top ballet company. It rarely happens, but I think there are certainly a number of other accomplished black ballerinas who deserved/ deserve to reach that level. It's sort of similar to Halle Berry receiving the Oscar, when definitely there have been other very accomplished black actresses who just as much or more deserved to receive it as well, but didn't.
Aftershocks, I wanted to reply because I've been wanting to address your feeling that you are being accused of "bad behavior" and/or being dismissed. I am not sure where that came from -- some post in this thread that I have forgotten, maybe? Or the general drift of the thread?

Nothing is wrong with your posts! People just have different perspectives. Obviously loads of people share your enthusiasm about Copeland and her story. I saw a link online to a story that called her the hottest ballerina in the world today - I think they meant popular, but maybe they meant sexy. Either way, you have plenty of company. It is pretty explicit from the "first African-American principal" story line that a lot, not all, of this interest is based at least as much on Copeland's race and life story as her actual dancing. She's also remarkably good at marketing herself which is pretty unusual in the ballet world. (Miko Fogarty and Michaela DePrince are two others who have done the same, with the help of the film First Position.) Probably a lot of the people who find Copeland's story compelling have relatively little previous knowledge of ballet, and that's fine - it means she's bringing new audiences to ballet. Yay for her.

I think what happened here is that you posted about Copeland's promotion in a section of the forum where a lot of longtime ballet lovers, including some dancers and ex-dancers, regularly discuss ballet in NYC. It is asking too much IMO to ask people who've seen all the world's great dancers to set aside their normal interest in and knowledge of technique, body line, style, interpretation, etc. I think there's a kind of culture clash between people talking seriously about ballet in general and people interested mainly in the first black principal dancer at ABT, if only because they are by and large two different groups with different perspectives and interests. Obviously there can be overlap as in your case.

Personally, I'm in the longtime ballet lover group and see the Copeland hoopla as a bit of a media construction in view of past principal dancers of color like Arthur Mitchell, Maria Tallchief, and a gazillion Cubans. I'm also an opera lover, a world where black sopranos and mezzos like Shirley Verrett (!!!), Leontyne Price, etc. etc. have been divas and stars for decades. There's a little ho-hum in my own reaction to this kind of story, sorry! I've been kicking around a long time....

You do seen a little fangirly or fanboyish in your habit of calling her by her first name, or maybe that is something Copeland encourages her fans to do. AFAIK most serious ballet lovers, as opposed to fans, stick to last names unless they actually know the person. (Have social media changed that? At least most posters here generally use last names.) That little thing alone has made me a little uncomfortable about posting in this thread. I didn't want to get attacked for not adoring Copeland. Now the thread has shifted to the "general ballet" perspective and I feel safe saying that, while I find Copeland's body amazing, I am not too taken with her dancing. I can see how she might be great in the right vehicles, but I am not very interested in modern ballets except Balanchine's. Or perhaps she just needs more experience to master the classical roles. But with the thread drift, now you, the person who started the conversation, in the first place, feel excluded. :( Possibly the more you can enjoy your "overlap" position to navigate the two groups the less excluded you will feel? JUst a suggestion.

Very sorry if this doesn't help. I have good intentions but talking about race is not my strong suit. (Disclosure: I am a social conservative and prefer to think in terms of merit rather than race.) I greatly respect your knowledge of figure skating and I like it a lot when you talk about ballet from the broad perspective that I'm familiar with. I just can't identify too much with the "Misty Copeland Story" point of view. No matter about me. Just wait for the Hollywood film in a couple years!
 
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Great post and you made my point entirely.

I can't get past her lack of proper technique in the big classical roles. And as I said earlier, it's not as if that lack of technical mastery is part of the Opéra in Paris nowadays which I hope will change back under Millepied.
It's not as if she's not great with modern work. It just looks like ABT is milking her popularity more than her dance. I am just asking for her to refrain from doing the classical she sucks at, because she can show a lot more things in modern things like Balanchine !
 
@Spun Silver, :lol: Pardon moi! Hmmm, I see. Never shall discussions of race and ballet meet on FSU. Tsk tsk, and I am reprimanded. ;) You bring up some erroneous assumptions and some interesting observations as well. But I'm too busy right now unfortunately, or fortunately to respond on all your points. Ultimately, and in the scheme of important things in life, it don't matter right now. :)

Anyways, good luck to Misty Copeland, and I wish her well. I get that a lot of people think there's too much hype going on with her story (even her mother seems to feel that way). But I think there may be more than a little bit else going on to unwrap (as Tavis Smiley would say) :p But once again, not here on FSU apparently.

Cheers to all you discriminating and persnickety ballet aficionados! Maybe I will revisit the ballet discussion at some point, or maybe not. I am definitely a lover of all things ballet, and I studied it too awhile back and it has been an important part of my life. I very much miss that wonderful aspect of living in New York (having the advantage of regularly attending seasons of two of the best ballet companies in the world, not to mention all the modern dance, and other cultural events!)
 
@aftershocks, sorry if I offended you. My intention was only the opposite. Try unwrapping the race-ballet connection in Politically Incorrect - I think you might meet with a quite different reception.
 
Thanks for posting. I've heard of her forever but never really knew who she was. Beautiful woman, beautiful spirit. So expressive in words as well as body (even now). Textbook posture!
 
Just like Halle Berry can not play a role of Queen Elizabeth, and Meryl Steep can't be cast to play Condoleezza Rice, a black dancer would look odd dancing a role of White Swan in Swan lake..... unless the whole ballet's production setting is properly changed like "Carmen" to "Carmen Jones".

I think there's a big difference between different types of performance in terms of the correspondence between the performer's race/physical features and those of the character being portrayed.

On the one hand, you have realist portrayals on film (or realist stage drama especially in intimate performance spaces) where facial expression/close-ups are a significant aspect of the means by which the performer embodies the character. If we're supposed to be drawn into believing that we are actually watching the person being portrayed, the performer's body needs to be able to support that illusion.

On the other hand you have performance genres designed for large live venues where the whole-body movement and costumes/masks/highly stylized makeup play more of a role and the means of representation are much more symbolic where there's much less expectation that the performer's physical characteristics would match those of the character being portrayed.

Halle Berry couldn't play Queen Elizabeth in a realistic biopic -- but she could play Anne Boleyn or Queen Katherine in Shakespeare's Henry VIII or Elizabeth I in Schiller's Mary Stuart, etc. -- or Elizabeth II in any similarly large-scale epic stage drama treating more recent events in a more mythic than realistic fashion.

If the character is not a human, there's that much much less need to be "faithful" to the character's physical features. Ballerinas representing swans on stage are not chosen for how well their bodies or facial structure resemble the real-life birds. And if white ballerinas can portray black swans by putting on a black costume, there's no reason why black ballerinas can't do the reverse.
 
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Besides the many arguments against @Tinami Amori's opinion, Misty Copeland is so light skinned that I don't even see why it would be a question. I saw a brief vid of her practicing Swan Lake in Washington with a much darker-skinned Siegried whose name I don't recall. I had never seen her before and almost wondered why all the excitement is about her and not him. But he didn't do enough for me to see what kind of dancer he is. Anyway, scroll down for a pic of Copeland as the Swan Queen.
http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2015/06/misty-copeland-swan-lake-swan-queen-week-in-culture

ETA: Here is the vid. His name is Brooklyn Mack.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SXuVzR4CcRY

And here is more of him. Whoa! I was yelling at my computer screen. I think he is MUCH more exciting than Copeland! (Despite the world's worst Corsair costume!)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq-GSXh9OEY
 
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And it's nothing new. We used to rip on this ABT female principal all the time back in the olden days:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKl6dT6Uju4

You're right, the kid glove questioning of Copeland's fouettes cannot compare to how D'Antuono was blasted back in the '70s. I never forgot, especially, how harsh critic Eric Taub was, and how colorful dance writing was back then. Google served up one example:

"In dancing Diana, Eleanor D'Antuono showed strong but bland technique and a total lack of musicality. She doesn't seem to know that the music is there to be played with, and performs each step as if it were a classroom exercise. I had to feel sorry for her, though, after seeing the hamhanded way she was partnered by the Cuban dancer, Jorge Esquivel. Clad only in a brown dance belt fetchingly decorated with gold tassels, he appeared to help her with multiple turns by slapping her like a bass fiddle. His variations were noteworthy only for the remarkable number of times he could lose his balance and cover up for it."
 
Besides the many arguments against @Tinami Amori's opinion, Misty Copeland is so light skinned that I don't even see why it would be a question. I saw a brief vid of her practicing Swan Lake in Washington with a much darker-skinned Siegried whose name I don't recall. I had never seen her before and almost wondered why all the excitement is about her and not him. But he didn't do enough for me to see what kind of dancer he is. Anyway, scroll down for a pic of Copeland as the Swan Queen.
http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2015/06/misty-copeland-swan-lake-swan-queen-week-in-culture

ETA: Here is the vid. His name is Brooklyn Mack.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SXuVzR4CcRY

And here is more of him. Whoa! I was yelling at my computer screen. I think he is MUCH more exciting than Copeland! (Despite the world's worst Corsair costume!)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq-GSXh9OEY

I love Brooklyn Mack. He's fab.
 
I had never seen her before and almost wondered why all the excitement is about her and not him.
There aren't that many ballets where the male's role is as dominant as the female's role. I can't think of any in the actual Petipa, although the Soviets and later Nureyev, most prominently for Paris Opera Ballet, tried to shift the balance, adding in jesters, Golden Idol, Ali in "Le Corsaire," etc., and for Nureyev, making von Rothbart the most important part of "Swan Lake," etc.

Unlike opera, where there have been far more female stars than male stars, especially male tenors, there have been and continue to be many more black and brown men in ballet, perhaps because men are "allowed" to be dark-skinned, and that usually has been the kiss of death for ballerinas. The news was about the Odette/Odile making her debut.

You're right, the kid glove questioning of Copeland's fouettes cannot compare to how D'Antuono was blasted back in the '70s. I never forgot, especially, how harsh critic Eric Taub was, and how colorful dance writing was back then.
Robert Gottlieb is still writing like that for the NY Observer. Taub is still on the internet, and there's plenty of writing like his there.

Even in the '70's, the prominent critics in the US were Arlene Croce, Tobi Tobias, Anna Kisselgoff, Deborah Jowitt, Jack Anderson, Robert Greskovic (still very active as dance critic of the WSJ), and Clive Barnes, and they rarely make it about how clever they could seem at someone else's expense.
 
Good for you for replying to that.
Even in the '70's, the prominent critics in the US were Arlene Croce, Tobi Tobias, Anna Kisselgoff, Deborah Jowitt, Jack Anderson, Robert Greskovic (still very active as dance critic of the WSJ), and Clive Barnes, and they rarely make it about how clever they could seem at someone else's expense.

That's good to hear. The snark might be fun at first, but I find the novelty wears out quickly in professional publications.
 
Great post and you made my point entirely.

I can't get past her lack of proper technique in the big classical roles. And as I said earlier, it's not as if that lack of technical mastery is part of the Opéra in Paris nowadays which I hope will change back under Millepied.
It's not as if she's not great with modern work. It just looks like ABT is milking her popularity more than her dance. I am just asking for her to refrain from doing the classical she sucks at, because she can show a lot more things in modern things like Balanchine !

Yes, some great dancers aren't well suited to the big classics. She's gorgeous and fascinating in works like this: https://vimeo.com/111552764
 
Who is the lucky guy? The woman looks like she was carved.
 
http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/...-of-misty-copeland-to-tell-a-ballerinas-tale/
Author, filmmaker, television producer, and critic Nelson George may have worn a lot of hats in his long career, but his love for music has been constant throughout. ... For A Ballerina’s Tale, which premieres on Independent Lens on PBS February 8 [check local listings], George turned to the world of ballet to get an up-close look at the groundbreaking dancer Misty Copeland. Clay Cane of BET called A Ballerina’s Tale “a nuanced, polished presentation of one of the hardest working women in her field — or any field.”
How would you describe for people the type of film you made?

The film is very much a memoir of Misty at turning point in her career. It’s not a biography that goes deeply into her family background. It’s about her life as a dancer in New York and a mini-history of how body image and race affect the world of classical ballet.
 
Aftershocks, I wanted to reply because I've been wanting to address your feeling that you are being accused of "bad behavior" and/or being dismissed. I am not sure where that came from -- some post in this thread that I have forgotten, maybe? Or the general drift of the thread?

Nothing is wrong with your posts! People just have different perspectives. Obviously loads of people share your enthusiasm about Copeland and her story. I saw a link online to a story that called her the hottest ballerina in the world today - I think they meant popular, but maybe they meant sexy. Either way, you have plenty of company. It is pretty explicit from the "first African-American principal" story line that a lot, not all, of this interest is based at least as much on Copeland's race and life story as her actual dancing. She's also remarkably good at marketing herself which is pretty unusual in the ballet world. (Miko Fogarty and Michaela DePrince are two others who have done the same, with the help of the film First Position.) Probably a lot of the people who find Copeland's story compelling have relatively little previous knowledge of ballet, and that's fine - it means she's bringing new audiences to ballet. Yay for her.

I think what happened here is that you posted about Copeland's promotion in a section of the forum where a lot of longtime ballet lovers, including some dancers and ex-dancers, regularly discuss ballet in NYC. It is asking too much IMO to ask people who've seen all the world's great dancers to set aside their normal interest in and knowledge of technique, body line, style, interpretation, etc. I think there's a kind of culture clash between people talking seriously about ballet in general and people interested mainly in the first black principal dancer at ABT, if only because they are by and large two different groups with different perspectives and interests. Obviously there can be overlap as in your case.

Personally, I'm in the longtime ballet lover group and see the Copeland hoopla as a bit of a media construction in view of past principal dancers of color like Arthur Mitchell, Maria Tallchief, and a gazillion Cubans. I'm also an opera lover, a world where black sopranos and mezzos like Shirley Verrett (!!!), Leontyne Price, etc. etc. have been divas and stars for decades. There's a little ho-hum in my own reaction to this kind of story, sorry! I've been kicking around a long time....

You do seen a little fangirly or fanboyish in your habit of calling her by her first name, or maybe that is something Copeland encourages her fans to do. AFAIK most serious ballet lovers, as opposed to fans, stick to last names unless they actually know the person. (Have social media changed that? At least most posters here generally use last names.) That little thing alone has made me a little uncomfortable about posting in this thread. I didn't want to get attacked for not adoring Copeland. Now the thread has shifted to the "general ballet" perspective and I feel safe saying that, while I find Copeland's body amazing, I am not too taken with her dancing. I can see how she might be great in the right vehicles, but I am not very interested in modern ballets except Balanchine's. Or perhaps she just needs more experience to master the classical roles. But with the thread drift, now you, the person who started the conversation, in the first place, feel excluded. :( Possibly the more you can enjoy your "overlap" position to navigate the two groups the less excluded you will feel? JUst a suggestion.

Very sorry if this doesn't help. I have good intentions but talking about race is not my strong suit. (Disclosure: I am a social conservative and prefer to think in terms of merit rather than race.) I greatly respect your knowledge of figure skating and I like it a lot when you talk about ballet from the broad perspective that I'm familiar with. I just can't identify too much with the "Misty Copeland Story" point of view. No matter about me. Just wait for the Hollywood film in a couple years!

I realize that that this is an old/dead thread, and I don't want to kick the hornet's nest, but I recently stumbled upon this thread and would like to address some of the points that were brought up here:

I feel like there is a presumption that aftershocks is uninformed ballet viewer because they enjoy Copeland's dancing (and I believe that there was a comment from IceAlisa around #92 or so that accused aftershocks of coming across as hostile for asking for clarification regarding the criticisms about Copeland's technique).

Copeland's story is certainly a big part her appeal. Though there are certainly dancers of color that have made an impact as classical artists (Mitchell, Acosta, etc), prior to Misty's promotion, there had never been a black woman principal in a major international ballet company (NYCB, ABT, POB, Mariinsky, Bolshoi, RB, etc). Francesca Hayward became a principal at the Royal Ballet the next year, I believe. Copeland also dealt with homelessness and only had four years of training before joining the ABT Studio Company, which is quite remarkable - and makes her an inspirational and relatable figure to those who may not be familiar with ballet.

However, I think there is a racist, ageist, and condescending presumption among NYC balletomanes that Misty's audience is mostly young dancers who don't know any better, and Black people who will hoot and holler indiscriminately because there is a Black person onstage. Many of the people who have followed Misty's career are Black dancers from the classical and contemporary ballet communities in NYC, along with modern dancers (all of whom are trained and discerning viewers).

Basically, there is more overlap between people who understand ballet/Misty fans than this thread acknowledges. I personally enjoy Misty's work. Her port de bras is beautiful, and I find her feet to be very expressive. And if she brings in new audience members who just want to see something beautiful, that's great for ballet too!

As for the first name thing, I periodically comment on Ballet Alert, which tends to be a more formal place than FSUniverse with many knowledgeable posters. Dancers' first and last names are used interchangeably. That's definitely not a sign of a fan/stan/uber.

I don't think there's anything wrong with being a fanboy/girl either or starting a fan thread - this is a site for people who are fans of figure skating! It might have been prudent to keep this as the Copeland fan thread, and have a spin-off for people who wanted to discuss her technique.

Nobody is obligated to like Copeland, but critiques of her are wrapped up in so much misogynoir (misogyny that is directed towards black women) and innuendo (that her promotion is the result of PR, she plays the race card for professional benefits, etc) that it is difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff.
 
^^ Even despite this being an old thread topic on FSU, I appreciate you sharing your perspectives with us @MichelleSpiral. Your thoughtful commentary is very much appreciated. I have a 2018 Misty Copeland calendar with quotes/advice by her, so she's been on my mind. Unfortunately, I no longer live in NY, so I've been unable to follow her career with ABT in the way I wish I could. :)
 

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