IOC's decision: (clean) Russian athletes can compete under neutral flag at PyeongChang Olympics

[Vash01]

I actually don't think it's unusual. Teams are not tested together - athletes are tested individually and at random, so it is quite common for only one member of a pair to be tested and therefore to have issues emanating from only one member of the team. Think Berezhnaya, Ina, Bobrova. It was not their team who was suspended, it was just the individual. Of course, it impacts the partner as well, but not because of his or her own issues.

Also Klimova in 1991 but she was cleared later, and was able to compete at worlds.

I think Ina was disqualified by her own fed.

 

[MAXSwagg]

You specifically said that "they" were starting a conspiracy of the judges being against V/M. If by "they" you are meaning Kurt and Carol, I doubt very much they said any such thing. There has been only one team this season that can beat V/M and when they did at the GPF, Kurt and Carol said that P/C deserved to win because V/M over skated their program and made mistakes.

Carol did say at Rostelcom Cup that the marks were high for Russian teams "because it's Russia."

That's not much different than many posters say on FSU about other countries (Canada/USA) and we can debate if it was okay for a commentator to say that (I think it wasn't) but considering that V/M didn't even compete at Rostelcom Cup, it wasn't about them.

Even V/M themselves have been saying that the judging has improved since Sochi. So I have no idea what you are talking about.

So you're saying I'm a liar?

This entire situation is a mess. Who authorized the release of this information?? If both are cleared, I wonder if they can file a lawsuit for defamation?

 

[cholla]

We Seem to have a large number I have adolescent or preteen posters today. Another bring a poster I will be adding to the ignore list. I don’t bother to read what fourth-graders have to say

Said "4th-graders" haven been attending all main international competitions for ages (sorry Andreï, you are officially ancient ), mainly as media representatives. They also have been posters here @ FSU for the past centuries (Andreï is a almost totally mummified and TAHbKA first travelled to the US aboard the Mayflower - that's where we met, sea sick and vomiting on each others) . They are knowledgeable and respected posters, their credibility can't be questionned. You don't have to agree with their opinions, but they actually do know what they are talking about. I can understand you're not interested in what "4th graders" have to say, since it's totally out of reach for someone who obviously flunked both nursery and kindergarden. Still, I hope you are potty-trained. Tell us if you need toilet paper. I'm deeply honored to immediately join two famous FSUers on your ignore sandbox

 

[jlai]

Said "4th-graders" haven been attending all main international competitions for ages (sorry Andreï, you are officially ancient ), mainly as media representatives. They also have been posters here @ FSU for the past centuries (Andreï is a almost totally mummified and TAHbKA first travelled to the US aboard the Mayflower - that's where we met, sea sick and vomiting on each others) . They are knowledgeable and respected posters, their credibility can't be questionned. You don't have to agree with their opinions, but they actually do know what they are talking about. I can understand you're not interested in what "4th graders" have to say, since it's totally out of reach for someone who obviously flunked both nursery and kindergarden. Still, I hope you are potty-trained. Tell us if you need toilet paper. I'm deeply honored to immediately join two famous FSUers on your ignore sandbox

I have no doubt that Andreï and TAHbKA know stuff. That said, this is an internet forum, when someone proclaims to know stuff but do not share details, naturally the said post will invite posters to challenge them.

Anyway, I can see how one knows an organization well enough to know how things normally go wrong. That said, I am with those who have a wait and see. So little facts so much speculation.

 

[cholla]

I think we should contact ------ to ask her answers.

Careful Marie... This could be considered as "incitation au harcèlement" and it's against the law in Camembertland. Add to that she is a former state Minister. David Molina ended up filing a handrail at a police station after he was harassed and threatened over social medias. Although the tweeter page you linked is public, hence anybody can find it, do not initiate a flaming war that could really turn bad. It won't help the athletes anyway.

This entire situation is a mess. Who authorized the release of this information??

Chances are IOC did. They are very good at covering their bases when they don't want something out. If it's out, it is probably with their permission or even their own communication to the media.

If both are cleared, I wonder if they can file a lawsuit for defamation?

I'm afraid they can't. The official communiqué reads : "The non inclusion in the list of invitees to the Games does not necessarily mean that the athlete was caught in the use of doping". They are covering their a$$ while giving themselves the entire liberty to do what absolutely they want without any recourse possible against their decisions. If you do not accuse (wrongly) the athletes of doping, I don't think there can be defamation. But athletes could probably file a lawsuit for blatant unfairness and arbitrary decisions, attacking the principle itself. Let's wait for what will finally be decided on Jan 27.

 

[skategal]

So you're saying I'm a liar?

No, I'm saying you are misinformed and/or mistaken when it comes to Kurt and Carol saying that there is a judges conspiracy against V/M.

 

[Tinami Amori]

If both are cleared, I wonder if they can file a lawsuit for defamation?

There is no defamation, the athletes are not accused of doping. They can file a case with CAS to dispute their rejection status.

 

[Carolla5501]

Said "4th-graders" haven been attending all main international competitions for ages (sorry Andreï, you are officially ancient ), mainly as media representatives. They also have been posters here @ FSU for the past centuries (Andreï is a almost totally mummified and TAHbKA first travelled to the US aboard the Mayflower - that's where we met, sea sick and vomiting on each others) . They are knowledgeable and respected posters, their credibility can't be questionned. You don't have to agree with their opinions, but they actually do know what they are talking about. I can understand you're not interested in what "4th graders" have to say, since it's totally out of reach for someone who obviously flunked both nursery and kindergarden. Still, I hope you are potty-trained. Tell us if you need toilet paper. I'm deeply honored to immediately join two famous FSUers on your ignore sandbox

I'm not impressed with so called "credentials" of posters whose response to someone is to call them idiots. It's a childish reaction (I imagine they stomped their feet too).

i doubt I will their name calling !

 

[Tinami Amori]

I'm not impressed with so called "credentials" of posters whose response to someone is to call them idiots.

call them "idiots" or something similar right back and quit complaining... everybody is blimey complaining now days, instead of doing.....

 

[Cleo1782]

The Olympic Channel is reporting this as preliminary news during live ice dance at 4cc's. They say it's not confirmed, but right now they say there are several reports saying Bukin is not invited to the Olympics. They didn't say anything about Stobolva, but it is ice dance.

 

[skatingguy]

The original article that I've seen quoted in many places today is from TASS http://tass.ru/sport/4895256 and quotes the First Vice-President of the Russian Olympic Committee Stanislav Pozdnyakov as saying that the athletes haven't been invited. I don't think any lists were leaked, and the IOC has not commented publicly. The IOC notified the ROC last week that 111 athletes from the original list of 500 that were submitted for review would not be invited.

 

[MAXSwagg]

No, I'm saying you are misinformed and/or mistaken when it comes to Kurt and Carol saying that there is a judges conspiracy against V/M.

No, I was not. You didn't even watch it or hear it, so who are you to say what I am or am not misinformed about?

 

[skatingguy]

I think the whole thing about Sochi and the ice dance is ancient history, but it originated in the French sports magazine L'Equipe, and because it received wide spread coverage it was something that had to be addressed during CBC's coverage. I do see the controversy mentioned in mainstream news & sports articles but there's never been any creditable information that a deal was made for the gold medal.

 

[TAHbKA]

I'm afraid they can't. The official communiqué reads : "The non inclusion in the list of invitees to the Games does not necessarily mean that the athlete was caught in the use of doping". They are covering their a$$ while giving themselves the entire liberty to do what absolutely they want without any recourse possible against their decisions. If you do not accuse (wrongly) the athletes of doping, I don't think there can be defamation. But athletes could probably file a lawsuit for blatant unfairness and arbitrary decisions, attacking the principle itself. Let's wait for what will finally be decided on Jan 27.

Right, that's exactly what I understand as well. They can fill a lawsuit with something like `I bought those dead expensive flight tickets and was told not to go, so refund', but even that is erm... questionable. They don't even have a case

 

[reut]

All this situation is so cruel to all four skaters, exactly what they DIDN'T need now a few days before Olys. My only hope is that they go and this story will make Ksenia angry and willing to kick asses even more.

 

[Amantide]

I'm afraid they can't. The official communiqué reads : "The non inclusion in the list of invitees to the Games does not necessarily mean that the athlete was caught in the use of doping". They are covering their a$$ while giving themselves the entire liberty to do what absolutely they want without any recourse possible against their decisions.

This is what I don't understand. Why would they not invite the athlete if it has nothing to do with doping? This is absurd to me. Am I missing smth, cause I am feeling a complete idiot or crazy person for not getting this.
What other reason could you possibly have for not inviting an athlete? Did Ksenia killed a puppy or smth?

 

[reut]

Maybe because all this situation with Russia was never only about doping? Just saying...

 

[TAHbKA]

This is what I don't understand. Why would they not invite the athlete if it has nothing to do with doping? This is absurd to me. Am I missing smth, cause I am feeling a complete idiot or crazy person for not getting this.

For all we know they could put the documents on a different chair. I mean - inviting Klimov and not Stolbova and Stepanov and not Bukin sounds like `oh, sorry, that was in that pile? ooops'

 

[Amantide]

For all we know they could put the documents on a different chair. I mean - inviting Klimov and not Stolbova and Stepanov and not Bukin sounds like `oh, sorry, that was in that pile? ooops'

Oh dear.
I don't know if I want to laugh or scream of anger, because of the stupidity of that official communiqué.

And oh, another thing. Banning a federation for corrupted games is one thing. Banning fans from waving a flag is a whole nother level of douchery.

So much for the Olympic "spirit".

 

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

@Andrey aka Pushkin I never said you were Russian - there are many fans of Russian skaters who are not Russian, and some of those individuals on this forum are calling Rodchenkov entirely unreliable.

I do agree that the IOC could've handled things better, and that they should've handled things better (I have no idea why the preliminary list was released publicly, and they probably should've had the final list out a week or two ago if not last month), but that's bureaucracy - slow, inefficient, and bad at handling things quickly. But we have zero evidence that they made this decision on "unknown, but obviously doping unrelated reasons." For all we know, the thing about Stolbova's urine sample could be true and Bukin might have had some other kind of incident that wasn't reported through the rumor mill (refusing a test, not having enough tests over a period of time, etc.). Until they state a reason, we have no reason why they banned them.

Well, to clarify. I'm not a fan of Russian skaters, I'm a fan of figure skating. Some of the best skaters in the world are Russian, so it's natural that some of my favorites are Russians, but if you're looking to assume that I'm supportive of skaters from a certain country, the better pick would be Spain and Turkey just because

Anyway, it makes no difference, my point is that I would enjoy my posts being read not from a position that I am personally or emotionally involved with this skater or another. Same thing about Rodchenkov. I might form an opinion, and I am not claiming it's the only one possible - but it is not based on who is my favorite skater currently is.

Now, regarding the second paragraph, it's true that this is an internet forum and therefore it's impossible to know who you are talking to and how valid their opinion is. So it's fully up to you to decide whether to trust my posts or not - and I'm totally fine with that. But I still, I would like to post about this matter because I want to.

And I would like to say that if Bukin or Stolbova would have been under suspicion for whatever reason, I would know. I would also like to ask other posters stop looking for the possible doping related reasons to why they have been denied the "invitation" on this point - you might think of reasons, but they are not true. It's a solid fact that as of January 20th neither of them has been suspected in using doping by WADA. Unless something happened in the last 4 days, which I doubt, it's just a fact.

My guess is that in Stolbova's case they indeed used the rumour published in that Italian tabloid, and combined with the fact that she's a double Olympic medalist in Sochi of all places, they decided to deny her. As for Bukin I don't have the slightest clue, there hasn't been anything questionable in his past. Either way, the fact is that as of now, the IOC denies two clean skaters the right to participate at the Olympics with no reasonable base, just because they can. So my desire to punch in the face the Swedish OC for denying Majorov the ticket is now extended to the IOC. They obviously lost the grip of the reality and decided that the Olympics are their personal playground rather than the event for the athletes.

 

[Elkmaria]

My guess is that in Stolbova's case they indeed used the rumour published in that Italian tabloid, and combined with the fact that she's a double Olympic medalist in Sochi of all places, they decided to deny her

If this is really the case, then this is ridiculous and downright vile. To ruin the Olympic dreams of two skaters for no reason other than a coincidence based on a trash tabloid article is a tragic farce.

 

[reut]

Bukin might have had some other kind of incident that wasn't reported through the rumor mill (refusing a test, not having enough tests over a period of time, etc.). Until they state a reason, we have no reason why they banned them.

Just by chance I happened to be in the mixed zone and stand near them when they were talking to Russian journalist and telling about multiple doping tests they had recently. They were telling this in a half joking manner, they were absolutely open and calm when talking about this subject, said they are already used to wake up to greet doping control officers, "Oh, it's you again, welcome, do you want some tea?" Because it was the same person checking them twice at some point so they already knew him. They had zero doping problems as of Sunday, that's 100% sure.

 

[kates8]

When would doping tests from Europeans be known?

 

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

There is no defamation, the athletes are not accused of doping. They can file a case with CAS to dispute their rejection status.

Apparently it wouldn't help. The wording of the charter is such, that IOC is not actually required to provide any reasoning to the denial. The Russians are already fighting the decision, but as far as I understand it, even they themselves consider the chances as zeroish.

I think the only way to pressure IOC would be bad publicity and pressure from the sponsors. But seemingly no one cares really, and no one outside Russia questions anything.

 

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

When would doping tests from Europeans be known?

Within a week.
Anyway, it's not it as neither of them has been stripped of the medal.

 

[skategal]

No, I was not. You didn't even watch it or hear it, so who are you to say what I am or am not misinformed about?

I watched all of CBC's Grand Prix coverage. I have been following all the online articles on CBC about V/M. Nothing of a judges conspiracy against V/M was ever mentioned on the TV or online.

And considering your recall of Carol's comments at Rostelcom Cup or as you said "her performance" and what happened in 2014, I am thinking you have misinterpreted whatever was said on the podcast.

And for who I am? I am a poster on FSU. Posters here get questioned all the time when they present things "as fact" that may or may not be fact. This is not unusual on this board. I don't think you are new here. You should expect to be questioned on validity of statements when you are saying that Carol Lane and Kurt Browning have started a media campaign about a judges conspiracy against V/M.

 

[RoseRed]

If this is really the case, then this is ridiculous and downright vile. To ruin the Olympic dreams of two skaters for no reason other than a coincidence based on a trash tabloid article is a tragic farce.

Wasn't the rumour in the Italian paper based on one of the published documents that didn't name names, but referred to a female Gold and Silver medalist having a urine sample with impossible salt levels and/or two different DNA samples? That fits Ksenia. I'm not saying she doped, but I would think that it would more likely be based on that information than a rumour in a tabloid.

 

[Carolla5501]

Just a reminder... there's NOTHING in the IOC's ruling that says "it only applies to those who were in Sochi". So just because an athlete was not in Sochi does not mean "automatic trip to the 2018 games" .

 

[Elkmaria]

Wasn't the rumour in the Italian paper based on one of the published documents that didn't name names, but referred to a female Gold and Silver medalist having a urine sample with impossible salt levels and/or two different DNA samples? That fits Ksenia. I'm not saying she doped, but I would think that it would more likely be based on that information than a rumour in a tabloid.

Yes, but these documents were published a long time ago, and Stolbova is still allowed to compete without any sanctions, unlike other athletes who are banned and stripped of their medals. Before yesterday, I thought it meant that she had been cleared. Maybe I was wrong I hope we'll find out in a few days.

 

[Eisfee]

https://m.sports.ru/biathlon/1059564772.html

Thomas Bach