Ice Dance Requirements for Technical Rules season 2018/19

gkelly

Well-Known Member
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15,621
For opera/Broadway season, I hope they can somehow tweak the rule about having a strong beat. If we get more music like "Pride and Prejudice and Drums," y'all are going to have to talk me off the ledge.
Most Broadway type music already has a recognizable beat, e.g. foxtrot. And it's operetta, not opera, right? I don't expect added beats.
 

Willin

Well-Known Member
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2,191
I'm pumped for the Broadway season, but I do wonder what this will mean music choice-wise. I'm betting it will end up being a ton of POTOs and Moulin Rouge. I'd like to see some Hamilton in there as well, but as that's more hip-hop I wonder if it would even count under ISU rules. It'll be interesting to see what couples choose...
 

MarieM

Grumpy Cynical Ice Dance Lover
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9,537
I have never ever seen a rule change that obviously against one coaching team. The first time ever the leading center is hit hard on just about every single thing, from twizzles, to lifts, steps and music requirements.
They really must irk just about everyone.
 

VGThuy

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34,458
I have never ever seen a rule change that obviously against one coaching team. The first time ever the leading center is hit hard on just about every single thing, from twizzles, to lifts, steps and music requirements.
They really must irk just about everyone.

I'm sorry, could you explain what you mean?
 

chapis

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2,871
Have you read it? It's so blatlanty against every single element that Gatbois team excel at, it's not even funny.

I understand that musicals/Broadway could be not the style of P/C but what do you mean about lifts and twizzles?
 

VGThuy

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34,458
No it's not punishing Gadbois. I could see V/M with Gadbois doing wonders with these requirements. I also think H/D could come up with something special as well. And I don't see how P/C will suffer really since they have the skills to make whatever requirement they are given work. I mean they will continue to push the rules and still be rewarded for it.
 

GreenGan

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167
Honestly, I don´t understand how someone can to think the ISU is against Gadbois when P/C just got practically perfect score today and break records each competition.
Because Gadbois played with the rules. Lots of people here (including you) said that the lifts of P/C and H/D were too simple. And the answer given to you were "it fits the criteria".
I guess MarieM is focusing on Gadbois, because for example for the twizzles Gadbois isn't the only center that use more than one steps between twizzles. But I also think you're focusing too much on P/C. Gadbois has something like 15 team. I remember the 2016-2017 season when people said that MFD gave the same style to every team of hers. The theme "entertainment" given in example could be directly pointed as an attack to her genra, for example.

My point is, Judges loved the execution of Gadbois program at those worlds. And all season long. The teams there got their level, but it definitely is a different ice dance in 2018 than it was in 2014. One can interpret the changing of rules as an attack to Gadbois. You can trick the ISU in interpretating freely rules which are a bit lax to actually create what you like. And judges can love that, as long as you get your level (because you followed the rules). Now the ISU want different rules, more specific one, to give Ice Dance a new direction. A direction that would be different that what this cycle was, because of Gadbois. But I'm not really worried for them, and I don't think MarieM is either.

(An other example that comes to me : the new music requirement for the SD, where you want a clear tango "when you close your eyes" : it's on the video from youtube. I can see that as a clear attack on V/M or P/C choice of music for the latin this year. Even though Gadbois wasn't the only center to do that...)
 

VGThuy

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34,458
I think there’s still a lot of leeway for Gadbois to work with their strengths. And I know when people think entertaining they are thinking something upbeat or perky, but it’s like that “uplifting” directive...it can mean almost anything. Entertaining to me just means interesting and musical and something you’d want to watch again and nobody can say P/C don’t do that.

This is not quite the same as those rule changes after the 1992 Olympics. They were super explicit about how they no longer wanted ice dance to look like what it was during 1990-1992.
 

chapis

Well-Known Member
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2,871
Because Gadbois played with the rules. Lots of people here (including you) said that the lifts of P/C and H/D were too simple. And the answer given to you were "it fits the criteria".
I guess MarieM is focusing on Gadbois, because for example for the twizzles Gadbois isn't the only center that use more than one steps between twizzles. But I also think you're focusing too much on P/C. Gadbois has something like 15 team. I remember the 2016-2017 season when people said that MFD gave the same style to every team of hers. The theme "entertainment" given in example could be directly pointed as an attack to her genra, for example.

My point is, Judges loved the execution of Gadbois program at those worlds. And all season long. The teams there got their level, but it definitely is a different ice dance in 2018 than it was in 2014. One can interpret the changing of rules as an attack to Gadbois. You can trick the ISU in interpretating freely rules which are a bit lax to actually create what you like. And judges can love that, as long as you get your level (because you followed the rules). Now the ISU want different rules, more specific one, to give Ice Dance a new direction. A direction that would be different that what this cycle was, because of Gadbois. But I'm not really worried for them, and I don't think MarieM is either.

(An other example that comes to me : the new music requirement for the SD, where you want a clear tango "when you close your eyes" : it's on the video from youtube. I can see that as a clear attack on V/M or P/C choice of music for the latin this year. Even though Gadbois wasn't the only center to do that...)

But if they would want to punish them, they could to do it, today twizzles were not perfect and they got a perfect score, interpretation, composition are subjective and nobody would criticise to judges for not give them 10´s, finally, perfection does not exist. Their straight line lift is not better than other teams getting a lower score.

But about twizzles, it was about time, and they can to do still 3 steps between twizzles, P/C are doing more than 3 steps between twizzles?
 

VGThuy

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34,458
I thought the twizzle requirements are pretty much the same as they always been except now for the FD synchronized twizzles partners can be in hold within the 3 allowed steps in-between. Also, there was nothing in the link that said anything about new lift requirements for level 4, so I don't know why that is being brought up.
 

morqet

rising like a phoenix
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2,504
You have to wait for the technical handbook to be published in a couple of months time to see if they are changing the requirements to get level 4 on any of the elements, but the wording around the twizzles suggests there will be big changes to that at least. "Combination twizzles" with different BVs for each partner is completely new.

I'd interpret the changes overall as an attempt to push the sport back to its ballroom dance origins - I'm very happy about that, but it's definitely not the preferred style of some of the current top teams.
 

GreenGan

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167
But if they would want to punish them, they could to do it, today twizzles were not perfect and they got a perfect score, interpretation, composition are subjective and nobody would criticise to judges for not give them 10´s, finally, perfection does not exist. Their straight line lift is not better than other teams getting a lower score.

But about twizzles, it was about time, and they can to do still 3 steps between twizzles, P/C are doing more than 3 steps between twizzles?
Twizzles were not perfect ? Where ? Also I disagree. Steps between sets of twizzles make them much more pleasing to the eyes.. Anyway if it was up to me I'd probably get rid of the twizzles as it doesn't add anything to a program. IMO of course. And yes no one would criticize the judge if they didn't give perfect mark. It never occured to you that judges want to give perfect mark because that's how they feel ?
Whatever it's not the point. You keep confusing the ISU and the judging panel. The rules are not everything (except for the level), they are guiding the judging. Even if they're not always respected. Sadly.

I thought the twizzle requirements are pretty much the same as they always been except now for the FD synchronized twizzles partners can be in hold within the 3 allowed steps in-between. Also, there was nothing in the link that said anything about new lift requirements for level 4, so I don't know why that is being brought up.
I didn't read the whole changes yet, just watch the first hour of the ISU live. So I can't agree with MarieM on the attack on Gadbois specifically, as I didn't see it all. I just felt I could explain it. But my point about lifts were that the criticism of easy lift were useless because it fitted the rules. I wasn't sure I was really clear about how a change of rules can be used to specifically change habits of some center. Apparently it was more confusing than what I aimed to. So..Sorry I guess :D
 

Tinami Amori

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20,157
all i want to say (as a no-teknik, occasional dance watcher): I hope the new rule means that programmes must have a recognizable, understandable story line/subject, with proper costumes and a choreography that reflects the story/subject. I am tired of all the la-di-da programmes about "nothing" and "hysterical feelings" and whatever other "we're such illuminates, smell the enlightenment air in our arm pits" routines that are out there.

If they are not jumping and twisting in the air, then give us THEATRE... :D
 

VGThuy

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34,458
It seems I must have missed a lot since I wasn't able to watch that live feed.
 

Debbie S

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12,648
I liked C/L's FD and miss the previous quad when D/W, V/M, and others would actually tell a story and use music with variation throughout the program, so if the new rules bring dance back toward that, then great. But it's also exciting to have variety, so I wouldn't be in favor of penalizing a program just b/c the music is slower or less dramatic than others. If the judges want to see more excitement or variety, then they should reward the FDs that show that.
 

VGThuy

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34,458
I guess I'm the opposite. I thought this collection of FDs this season put the ones from 2014 to shame. I didn't really enjoy the FDs from 2014 except for Weaver/Poje's "Maria de Buenos Aires" and Pechelat/Bourzat's "Little Prince" and maybe the first minute of Ilinykh/Katsalapov's FD. Everything else seemed so generic in comparison and I think there was actually a lot more actual dancing this season than in 2014 when ice dance was so clearly element-by-element focused. It's still about the elements but I think teams these days try to really integrate it into a whole thanks to the push by Gadbois.
 

Debbie S

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12,648
I guess I'm the opposite. I thought this collection of FDs this season put the ones from 2014 to shame. I didn't really enjoy the FDs from 2014 except for Weaver/Poje's "Maria de Buenos Aires" and Pechelat/Bourzat's "Little Prince" and maybe the first minute of Ilinykh/Katsalapov's FD. Everything else seemed so generic in comparison and I think there was actually a lot more actual dancing this season than in 2014 when ice dance was so clearly element-by-element focused. It's still about the elements but I think teams these days try to really integrate it into a whole thanks to the push by Gadbois.
Those were good FDs. But so were plenty of others....the way I look at it is each team has different strengths and style and should be encouraged to put out a program that shows them at their best, not whatever style is being done by the top team b/c that is the only style the judges want to reward. All the slow, lyrical, love-themed FDs this quad got a bit much.
 

VGThuy

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34,458
I also think some of the blame can go to the callers. Footwork has become much slower because they have to show the tech panel that they are hitting all those edges correctly and it's hard to be on beat of the music while doing that so they all choose slower pieces to set their first type A footwork sequence to. And we know levels make and break a team's chance of medaling since it's so congested. Of course if you're one of the favorite teams, you'll get the benefit of the doubt with the calls but even V/M said the calling these days are a lot stricter and different than it was back in the previous quad.
 

snoopy

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12,274
Just in terms of styles, I think if we had just a couple top 10 couples doing a jive or other fast tempo piece, this past season would have been close to perfect wrt variety. It was a bit repetitive with the thematic pieces. The issue is everyone runs to copy the winners because knowing what the judges wants is a puzzle.
 

nimi

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1,678
The medalists got asked about the proposed rule changes in the FD press conference, their answers here: https://youtu.be/-5Nu9PELPRg?t=20m8s

E.g. Madison thinks it's "a new journey and I'm sure Patch will love it". And she's interested in the sliding movement thing.
 

Tak

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2,745
Do we know how this entertainment bonus will work? Who gives it? Is it the referee? Or do the judges vote on it individually and if you get a majority of the judges to give it , then you get the bonus?

I think having the judges decide would at least tend to make it a bit fairer. You would need 5 judges at least to get the bonus. But overall, I don't think it's a good idea. How do you define entertaining? Audience reaction? Personal feeling of enjoyment?
 

Sylvia

Looking forward to U.S. club competition season
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64,776
I just saw this now, and it's already over. Did anyone watch?
The ISU Ice Dance Technical Committee Annual Meeting (2.5 hours on March 23, 2018) can be replayed at the same link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7tYDftWFGg
The main purpose of this meeting is to inform Coaches, Skaters and Officials about the technical requirements for the 2018/19 season also including some of the requirements for the 2019/20 season. In particular, the required Rhythms for the Short (Rhythm) Dance, requirements for the Free Dance and updates to the calling and marking guidelines.

Essential new information regarding the most important aspects of the Ice Dance Technical Committee proposals for the forthcoming 2018 ISU Congress in Seville (ESP) will also be presented.
https://www.isu.org/news-inside-isu...eam-ice-dance-annual-meeting?templateParam=15
 
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dramagrrl

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1,913
Wow, that was a lot of sliding on one knee. I totally forgot that dance.

Oh, man. Where is Esta when we need her?! I want to read an ALLCAPS post in broken English about Usova being dragged by her partner like a wheelbarrow because she is old, slow in the ice, and needs to go to the pension! :smokin:

Love the idea of the musical/Broadway/operetta SD!!! :cheer: I am the opposite of most dance fans in that I abhor Latin dances and am not huge on tangos, but love waltzes, quickstep, and all the other perky dances, so this is right up my alley in theory. Of course, it could end up horrible if people all pick the typical screechy, overdone musicals and we end up with fifty Chicago programs, but there is a lot of room for variety and entertainment in the idea. It is also in the season when I will likely get to attend Worlds live, since it's in Montreal, so I am extra-pleased about that.
 

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