Ice Dance Requirements for Technical Rules season 2018/19

[VGThuy]

I posted this in the Dance Hall Thread but I think it deserves its own dedicated thread:

Info on the Tango Rhythm Dance next season:

https://www.isu.org/inside-single-p...ications-fs/16863-isu-communication-2148/file

Two sections of the Tango Romantica one after the other.

Something new:

One (1) Step Sequence in Hold or Not Touching or Combination of both (Style B) chosen from the following Types of Pattern:
- Midline – skated along the full length of the ice surface on the Long Axis.
- Diagonal – skated as fully corner to corner as possible
- Circular – utilizing the full width of the ice surface on the Short Axis

The pattern of the Step Sequence must maintain the integrity or basic shape of the chosen pattern. Some deviations in the chosen pattern are expected in order to complete the required turns. However, if the chosen pattern is not clearly recognizable, there will be a required reduction for incorrect Pattern by the Judges

There are also four key points for the pattern next season as opposed to three.

Specifications to Style B, Rhythm Dance 2018/2019:
- One (1) Stop permitted, up to 5 seconds
- One (1) Retrogression up to two measures is permitted and may start from the permitted Stop.
- Loop(s) NOT permitted
- The Hold requirement is not considered for Level

New FD requirements:

Two step sequences but one of them has to be a one-foot step sequence and the other is Style B. Senior teams have to do three choreographic elements now and they added a new category called sliding element to choose from. However one of the three HAS to be a choreographic character step, which is new.

Choreographic Character Step Sequence - The following requirements apply:
- Performed anywhere in the program
- Must be placed around the Short Axis and proceed from barrier to barrier.
- May be in hold or not touching

 

[Willin]

Interesting... I wonder what teams will do with the Choreographic Character Step Sequence. I'm excited to see it, but I wonder how much variety there will realistically be in it. Especially with it being on the short axis I bet most skaters will skate straight at the judges, so it will be a struggle to make skating straight at the judges like every team before you just did interesting. I'll be excited to see what teams do with it and how many teams will ignore the judges during that part.

 

[VGThuy]

I think they seriously want dancing to come back to ice dance and are forcing the teams to do it...except for that one foot step sequence...those are never musical or in-character. However, if the top teams get high GOEs no matter what they do then it may become a sort of throwaway element even if it has to reach one barrier to the other. It says centered around the short axis, so it seems like a short sequence anyway.

With the choreographic slide, do you think we can see the return of these moves?

https://youtu.be/94PMD_1zmNU?t=172

 

[manhn]

Wow, that was a lot of sliding on one knee. I totally forgot that dance.

I am ready for another tango from Weaver and Poje.

 

[VGThuy]

Wow, that was a lot of sliding on one knee. I totally forgot that dance.

I am ready for another tango from Weaver and Poje.

Yeah, I was just thinking, that entire second half was full of knee slides.

 

[nimi]

I think they seriously want dancing to come back to ice dance and are forcing the teams to do it...except for that one foot step sequence...those are never musical or in-character. However, if the top teams get high GOEs no matter what they do then it may become a sort of throwaway element even if it has to reach one barrier to the other.

Hmmmm.... Agreed, dunno whether this is a good idea... But we'll see.

But hey wait, is the Combination One Foot Step Sequence a not touching one? Or does it just have sections that must be performed on 1 foot while not touching (hence "combination" in the name)? Because it says "Turns performed simultaneously on one foot by each partner Not touching" and I'm like

It says centered around the short axis, so it seems like a short sequence anyway.

Are you talking about the Choreographic Character Step Sequence or about the Combination One Foot Step Sequence? Because i'm getting the impression that the latter is still around the long axis.

With the choreographic slide, do you think we can see the return of these moves?

https://youtu.be/94PMD_1zmNU?t=172

Oh, so kneeling on both knees is now allowed! "Controlled sliding on 2 knees or any part of the body will not be considered as a Fall/Illegal Element by the Technical Panel during this element."
Also pawing the ice is okay! "Touching the ice with the hand(s) is not allowed (except Choreographic Sliding Movement)"
Yes, it'll be interesting to see what kind of 'drag the lady around' moves we'll see.

ETA: OKAY JUST NOTICED A THING THAT'S RELEVANT TO MY INTERESTS! In the "Costume" section it says "the man must not wear tights" thing is "pending congress decision". Pretty please congress, legalize men in tights!

 

[chameleonster]

I didn't notice the possible bonus for "Entertainment", and I really need clarification on what that means. Are they looking for more upbeat programs with a strong focus on performance quality? Or is this just code for "fewer floaty lyrical programs please"?

 

[nimi]

I didn't notice the possible bonus for "Entertainment", and I really need clarification on what that means. Are they looking for more upbeat programs with a strong focus on performance quality? Or is this just code for "fewer floaty lyrical programs please"?

Hmmm. "Enjoyable/colorful/engaging overall DANCE program"

The emphasis on DANCE doesn't seem to suggest that floaty and lyrical wouldn't merit a +1.0 bonus, if the floaty lyrical number is danced well and "engaging". Which is subjective, of course, but so are some (many?) aspects of the PCS and GOEs, as we've seen.

If this bonus thing indeed is introduced, it'll probably be one of those things where the lower tier teams will receive 0 or -1.0 by default unless their program is undeniably fun to watch and dance-y, whereas a top team will be always awarded +1.0, even if their program is not particularly "enjoyable/colorful/engaging overall DANCE program". So, I kinda see the point in theory but I don't like the bonus idea because of how it probably would be implemented in practice (and because I'm cynical).

 

[chapis]

I think they seriously want dancing to come back to ice dance and are forcing the teams to do it...except for that one foot step sequence...those are never musical or in-character. However, if the top teams get high GOEs no matter what they do then it may become a sort of throwaway element even if it has to reach one barrier to the other. It says centered around the short axis, so it seems like a short sequence anyway.

With the choreographic slide, do you think we can see the return of these moves?

https://youtu.be/94PMD_1zmNU?t=172

I hope no, poor knees

 

[chameleonster]

I'm just trying to guess at the intent here, because this is kind of baffling otherwise? Wouldn't a program's enjoyability normally just fall under PCS? I can't really see a reason for an extra bonus on top of that unless to try to encourage more diversity(although that was already happening this season, really). Not to keep teams like P/C from playing to their strengths, but there have been competitions in the past where some groups just felt like one very long free dance.

On another note, I can't help but notice that there are no restrictions on the second rhythm. I'm assuming this doesn't mean the ISU wants teams to go wild with tango/polka programs, but it might provide interesting variation. I do like that teams can choose to just skate tango all the way through, though. While obviously there are programs that have utilized multiple rhythms well, I hope that having options will have fewer programs that feel like two different programs awkwardly stitched together.

 

[Tak]

Im so glad they are allowing teams to use just one rhythm in the SD. I hate these composite dances.

Congrats to the ISU - the finally got something RIGHT!

 

[starrynight]

ETA: OKAY JUST NOTICED A THING THAT'S RELEVANT TO MY INTERESTS! In the "Costume" section it says "the man must not wear tights" thing is "pending congress decision". Pretty please congress, legalize men in tights!

Men can wear tights provided they do what male ballet dancers do and wear a dance belt underneath. Lol All in the interests of keeping this family friendly

 

[clairecloutier]

At first glance, these changes sound good, except for the one-foot step sequence. That just seems sort of restrictive and unnecessarily technical?? And I worry the one-foot sequences will all look kind of the same (as is often the case in singles).

Otherwise, I like the sound of most of this, especially having 2 patterns in the SD and the option to use only 1 rhythm in SD.

 

[starrynight]

What does this mean? I've seen the same wording used in relation to the scoring of twizzles.

Combination One Foot Step Sequence is evaluated as one unit by adding the Base Values of the Lady One Foot Step Sequence and Man One Foot Step Sequence and then applying the GOE. The GOE of the Combination One Foot Step Sequences is equal to the sum of the numerical values of the corresponding GOE of these One Foot Step Sequences

 

[Tak]

What does this mean? I've seen the same wording used in relation to the scoring of twizzles.

Combination One Foot Step Sequence is evaluated as one unit by adding the Base Values of the Lady One Foot Step Sequence and Man One Foot Step Sequence and then applying the GOE. The GOE of the Combination One Foot Step Sequences is equal to the sum of the numerical values of the corresponding GOE of these One Foot Step Sequences

?? I THINK it means that they will score the man and the woman separately and then add their scores for the overall total.

 

[morqet]

?? I THINK it means that they will score the man and the woman separately and then add their scores for the overall total.

Also it looks like the twizzles are going to be done the same way - quite a departure, although it won't be fully explained until the 2019/19 technical handbook is published.

 

[starrynight]

Hmmm. "Enjoyable/colorful/engaging overall DANCE program"

The emphasis on DANCE doesn't seem to suggest that floaty and lyrical wouldn't merit a +1.0 bonus, if the floaty lyrical number is danced well and "engaging". Which is subjective, of course, but so are some (many?) aspects of the PCS and GOEs, as we've seen.

If this bonus thing indeed is introduced, it'll probably be one of those things where the lower tier teams will receive 0 or -1.0 by default unless their program is undeniably fun to watch and dance-y, whereas a top team will be always awarded +1.0, even if their program is not particularly "enjoyable/colorful/engaging overall DANCE program". So, I kinda see the point in theory but I don't like the bonus idea because of how it probably would be implemented in practice (and because I'm cynical).

This could be an extremely political scoring point. Especially as the scores are so close in dance, this point bonus/deduction could change placings quite a bit.

I predict a number of teams will be scrambling to update FD choreography in the first part of the season and plenty of fans will be outraged that some skaters are getting the bonus based on reputation/reputation of their choreographers alone.

I note the word 'original' is not included. So it does seem this bonus is not specifically designed to discourage training centres from producing a lot of similar looking/sounding FDs or teams from doing similar style FDs season after season.

I'm also curious as to how the judges and referee will seperate it out from PCS. Which are now going to +5 GOE.

So with a +1 for 'entertainment' and +5 GOE - the anointed dance teams will have an easy time getting ahead of the pack I think.

 

[nimi]

So with a +1 for 'entertainment' and +5 GOE - the anointed dance teams will have an easy time getting ahead of the pack I think.

NB: The possible "entertainment" bonus, like allowing men wear tights, is "pending Congress decision", so it's just a possibility at this point.

 

[chantilly]

I am loathing the “entertainment” bonus. It’s way too subjective in an already subjectively judged sport. I sense if passed or accepted as a new rule or requirement, it’ll be used too prop up teams and hold down others.

I’m also not sure if I completely understand it correctly, but in one section it says “ in hold “ won’t count for level. If I understand it correctly and they mean that the step sequence in the SD won’t receive a higher level in hold then that bothers me in ID.

As far as I understand it; hold is considered more difficult to achieve and execute.

Although I acknowledge that NTSS really separates the teams in terms of skill too.
Also like the one rhythm option.

The “ sliding “ concerns me slightly if we get anything like U and Z which was atrocious if you ask me.

 

[VGThuy]

That entertainment bonus is troubling. What if a team loses a medal because they did not get the entertainment bonus but a similarly situated team wins one because they did? What if they received it before at a GP event or even 4CC/Euros and then at Worlds didn't get one? What if a team never received one and skated similarly and then all of a sudden received one at Worlds?

 

[skatingguy]

That entertainment bonus is troubling. What if a team loses a medal because they did not get the entertainment bonus but a similarly situated team wins one because they did? What if they received it before at a GP event or even 4CC/Euros and then at Worlds didn't get one? What if a team never received one and skated similarly and then all of a sudden received one at Worlds?

And that will be different from how things have always been how?

 

[VGThuy]

And that will be different from how things have always been how?

It's adding a new tank of gasoline to that tire fire.

 

[casken]

So they want to give judges more opportunities to prop up their own skaters? Manipulating GOE and PCS wasn't enough?

And lol at "more knee slides!". Yeah, that's what ice dance needs.

 

[starrynight]

It's adding a new tank of gasoline to that tire fire.

I think it's the potential to actually DEDUCT for not being entertaining that's most concerning.

This rule proposal must be trying to engineer some kind of change in the FD s. I wonder what they are trying to achieve?

 

[Sylvia]

Save the date - Live stream Ice Dance Annual Meeting: https://www.isu.org/news-inside-isu...eam-ice-dance-annual-meeting?templateParam=15

The Ice Dance Technical Committee and the ISU Development Commission have the pleasure to announce that for the first time the Annual Meeting with Ice Dance Coaches, Skaters, Officials and interested representatives of the Media, held on the occasion of the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2018 in Milan, Italy will be Live streamed.

What: Ice Dance Annual Meeting
When: [Friday] March 23 at 18:00 CET [= 1:00 pm Eastern time]
Where (ETA link to the live stream/will be archived here): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7tYDftWFGg

 

[VGThuy]

Maybe they're afraid of ice dance, especially the FD, becoming more like free skates without the jumps. Ice dance at times seems a bit redundant to pairs now that pairs are adding more transitions and dance skills in their footwork. So maybe they want to make sure dancers are really dancing throughout the FD even though they have so many elements to do and have to make sure they get level 4s and every time an ice dance team has a difficult transition and content they end up streamlining it by Worlds to make sure the tech panel sees they are hitting their edges.

 

[Frau Muller]

I didn't notice the possible bonus for "Entertainment", and I really need clarification on what that means. Are they looking for more upbeat programs with a strong focus on performance quality? Or is this just code for "fewer floaty lyrical programs please"?

Time for Marchei/HOT-arek to switch to ice dance? And...time for Papa/Cizeron to engage more with the audience? (No hate intended, as I love their floaty FDs, whether or not they engage the audience.)

 

[manhn]

But based on just twitter reactions, the general public seemed to gravitate towards the dance. Whereas the public could appreciate a single skater's or pairs' performance quality of the elements, the public seemed particularly pleased with the actual ice dance PROGRAMS.

I actually think Piper and Paul would be fabulous at knee sliding.

 

[Deleted member 74551]

Entertainment bonus is a terrible idea. It's so open to abuse. How can you possibly quantify 'entertainment' in a way that isn't already covered by PCS? If the ISU wants ID taken seriously as a sport and have people trust in the integrity of the system this is about the worst thing they could do. Fans can go back and forth on what constitutes art but the judges are there to evaluate the skating and performance, not to signify what we should be enjoying.

I can't figure out what they're aiming for with this proposal. There has to be a specific purpose. I don't see why this was something anyone felt needed fixing either because the general public were clearly engaged with dance last month and at Helsinki Worlds.

 

[starrynight]

I can't figure out what they're aiming for with this proposal. There has to be a specific purpose. I don't see why this was something anyone felt needed fixing either because the general public were clearly engaged with dance last month and at Helsinki Worlds.

There perhaps has been an issue with a lot of teams doing similar style lyrical programs due to wanting to do what is in fashion with the judges and some coaching centres producing similar or trademark FDs for lots of their teams.

But the bonus wouldn't fix that. Because what would the judges do, mark down everyone? Or just give the entertainment bonus to the team that got there first or to the top ranked team doing that style?

It could work if the judges kept the bonus only for very special occasions. But no way are they doing that. In every discipline it's a race to see how many world records can be broken, so they are not going to keep their powder dry.

My prediction is that a lot of teams will do themed FDs to musicals next season if this comes through. I don't mind that.