I, Tonya

[sylvestercat]

Why is it a shame? Weren't there enough tasteless antics at 94 Worlds for you?

Since it is a shame such a talented skater has only 1 world medal.

 

[bardtoob]

Why is it a shame? Weren't there enough tasteless antics at 94 Worlds for you?

You must be referring to Surya during the Medal Ceremony.

 

[skatesindreams]

Tonya's history and choices led to that outcome.

 

[berthesghost]

They wanted to remove her from the O team (Tonya threatened to sue, they caved)

Correction: Tonya did sue! She sued USOC for $20 million dollars in damages USOC later agreed to drop their efforts to discipline her if she dropped the suit. It’s been said nbc pressured them to let her skate for the tv ratings. She was later disciplined by usfs so one could argue that refusing to drop from the oly team is what provoked a lifetime ban rather than just a forced amateur retirement.

Since it is a shame such a talented skater has only 1 world medal.

its not usfs’ fault she didn’t medal at 92 worlds. In fact, repeating the 91 sweep would have set her up nicely to make the 93 team even if she did faulter at nats.

Also, was the 94 field really weaker than 92? If she couldn’t do better than 6th in 92 what makes anyone think she was a shoe in for bronze in 94? Yuka, Surya and Tonja all beat her in Lillehammer, and Surya and yuka had beaten her at nhk in the same arena earlier in the season, inspiring “the incident”

 

[sylvestercat]

Well she would up behind Tanja at Lillehammer since Tanja had a clean short and Tonya had real problems in the short. And since unlike worlds there were a lot of good skaters, and Sato and Chouinard made big mistakes unlike worlds in the short, a lot of people ended up fitting between them. Her long there (while not her best) even probably would have beaten Tanja. The worlds field was weak enough even a flawed short by Tonya would be atleast 5th or 6th to Tanja's 4th, and unless she had a really bad skate she atleast beats Tanja in the long.

She wouldnt beat Yuka or Surya unless she skated really well, but she wouldnt lose the bronze unless she skated quite poorly. Even her Olympic performances probably are enough for 5th or 6th in the short and 3rd in the long at worlds, thus winning the bronze. As I said Tanja had no triple flip and not even really a triple lutz (she didnt land a single one on one foot all season) so while she was a nice skater she didnt have the difficulty to be competitive and only medaled since the field was so abysmal, Tanja didnt even medal at JUNIOR worlds that year remember which was won by baby Kwan. Even Kiellmann, who is a clunk of a skater both technically and artistically, probably beats her for the bronze if she doesnt fall twice at the end of her program just due to the harder jumps.

 

[gkelly]

For next year's spots? GMAFB! If anything people would assume that Kwan & Bobek combined would be able to meet the criteria for 2 spots at least.

That's not how it worked in those days. Only the top placement counted toward the next year's spot. A medal earned three spots and a top-10 place earned 2 spots.

Since a medal was unlikely especially with two rookies, the best they could hope was top 10 for 2 spots. It was iffy after Bobek DNQ and Kwan was 11th in the SP, but fortunately Kwan was able to pull up to 8th and earn the second spot -- which she ended up taking in 1995.

 

[Erin]

but Harding finishing top 5 in Chiba to gain a 3rd spot wasn’t a given. She was skating like crap and the judges were so done with her.

She would have had to finish top 3, not top 5. Top 5 was only for pairs because fewer countries sent pairs so they were willing to let more countries send three pairs. The current system of adding up the placements of the placements of the skaters didn't begin until 1996 or 1997.

 

[sylvestercat]

If Kwan had not fallen on the triple lutz in the short did she have a shot at the bronze? She beat Tanja easily at Junior Worlds but senior competition is different than junior and Tanja was more known by the judges.

 

[berthesghost]

Wow. Ok, not sure which I find harder to believe:

Tonya could do in March what she failed to do in December: medal in Chiba

Or

The usfs hated Tonya so much they would send her to Chiba in order to give Tonia k a spot at 95 worlds instead of asking her to resign in March

 

[sylvestercat]

Still when Kwan won Junior Worlds, Tanja did not even medal and her skate wasnt that different from her Worlds one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQjIOGxiFtg Worlds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXJdxp4hzFA Junior Worlds

 

[sylvestercat]

Wow. Ok, not sure which I find harder to believe:

Tonya could do in March what she failed to do in December: medal in Chiba

Well the field at NHK was actually much stronger than the field at Worlds. It had Sato (like worlds), Bonaly (like worlds), Chen (unlike worlds), Preston (unlike worlds) and others. Heck the field at Europeans was stronger than Worlds, Tanja was only 5th at Europeans but 3rd at Worlds. That Tanja was 4th at World Juniors and 3rd at Words really sums up the Worlds field/competition that year.

 

[taf2002]

If TH had gone to 94 Worlds what makes anyone think that she would have trained between Olys & World? She probably wouold't have even bought new laces either. She had to make sure she had some kind of equipment or costume failure.

ETA changed TD to TH (not Torvill/Dean but Tonya Harding)

 

[fracturedleg]

If TD had gone to 94 Worlds what makes anyone think that she would have trained between Olys & World?

Torvill & Dean were very professional and would have been determined to make up for their poor performance and bronze medal in Lillehammer and win. I am sure they would ahve trained liked dogs if they went to worlds.

 

[taf2002]

Torvill & Dean were very professional and would have been determined to make up for their poor performance and bronze medal in Lillehammer and win. I am sure they would ahve trained liked dogs if they went to worlds.

I meant TH (Harding).

 

[fracturedleg]

I meant TH (Harding).

Ooops sorry, since you said TD I thought you meant Torvill & Dean, who are classically named TD by their fans anyway.

 

[taf2002]

Ooops sorry, since you said TD I thought you meant Torvill & Dean, who are classically named TD by their fans anyway.

brain fart

 

[fracturedleg]

brain fart

I do wish TD had gone to Worlds. My heart broke I wouldnt get to see them skate one more time. Or even Usova & Zhulin. Especialy since Gritschuk & Platov fell, I am sure if Usova & Zhulin went the judges would have had no choice but to give them a 2nd world title and remove some of the sting from Lillehammer to end their careers.

 

[Inessence]

I'm guessing the DA's office deal and any punishments from the USFSA had nothing to do with each other, and that the movie conflating them was pure artistic license.

Of course, if Harding's deal with the DA included a provision that she couldn't travel outside of Oregon, that in itself would take her off the World team.

If her probation requirement prohibited travel outside of Oregon, yes the point is moot. She couldn’t go to World’s anyway. Which makes me wonder why the DA put it in there at all. The USFSA could handle Tonya’s skating credentials themselves.

I understand the movie conflating the punishment because it sort of did happen like that anyway. (Though she still could have reapplied for USFS membership, fat chance.) The movie gave the audience a clearer picture of exactly what Tonya was facing for her future. No skating prospects.

 

[Vagabond]

Isn't it standard procedure in every state for convicted criminals who have been sentenced to probation to have to surrender their passports? No passport, no Chiba.

 

[Inessence]

Isn't it standard procedure in every state for convicted criminals who have been sentenced to probation to have to surrender their passports? No passport, no Chiba.

If memory serves, she couldn’t even leave the west coast Oregon/Washington/California.

 

[cmk]

She couldn't leave the west coast area without permission. Probation did deny her request to go to Japan for something else over (either wrestling or a talk show hosted by a former skater (not Midori). I just remember Tonya doing the interview via satellite and the Japensese girl was at rink doing the interview. It was on youtube a long time ago. Probation did grant her permission to go somewhere in Germany doing the probation period.

I think the plea deal could of waited until after worlds for that reason. I think Tonya was running out of money and didn't want to have hundreds of thousands in legal bills which is why she took the plea. I would of liked to see her at worlds with 3 clean skates (qual, short, and long), and end up her career with a medal or high finish.

I think her lawyer should of fought a litte harder for her. The note wouldn't of held up on court, crazy Shawn's testimony wouldn't have held up either, and then it would be for a jury to pick who to believer -Tonya or Jeff. Jeff did have a history of abusing her (even if he was never convicted of it with her). Jeff was convicted of domestic violence vs the 2nd wife (that committed suicide while in drug rehab), and actually was arrested for threatening her in front of the kids. Abuse can be used as a defense as well. Should she have let Jeff and his friends kill her ( if they thought Shawn was a danger to the minister, why wouldn't he be a danger to Tonya as well?), just to make the homewrecker, and the rest of the usfsa and skating community happy?

Male athletes that make mistakes don't get it held over their heads for the rest of their lives. Yes Pistorius was sentenced to prison, but you don't see late-night comedians making fun of him. OJ served time on a different charge but the media doesn't ask him "did you kill Nicole or Ron" everytime he is interviewed or spotted.

 

[Yazmeen]

In regard to things "not holding up" in court in your opinions, kindly remember what Tonya asked for in agreeing to a plea bargain:

"She wanted two things," Frink says, "She did not want to admit prior knowledge and she did not want to spend time in prison."

I'd say both Tonya and her lawyer saw the writing on the wall if she went ahead with trial. And that wall could have been surrounded by bars...

 

[misskarne]

Should she have let Jeff and his friends kill her ( if they thought Shawn was a danger to the minister, why wouldn't he be a danger to Tonya as well?), just to make the homewrecker, and the rest of the usfsa and skating community happy?

You know, Tonya, you don't really help your case when you write stupid shit like this.

 

[berthesghost]

I would of liked to see her at worlds with 3 clean skates (qual, short, and long), and end up her career with a medal or high finish.

really? Isn’t that a bit like saying you wish the titanic had sunk during daylight? Why couldn’t she have medaled or finished high in Norway to end her career? Would a bronze in Chiba really have made the lifetime ban a less bitter pill to swallow?

 

[Inessence]

In regard to things "not holding up" in court in your opinions, kindly remember what Tonya asked for in agreeing to a plea bargain:

"She wanted two things," Frink says, "She did not want to admit prior knowledge and she did not want to spend time in prison."

I'd say both Tonya and her lawyer saw the writing on the wall if she went ahead with trial. And that wall could have been surrounded by bars...

They had her dead to rights on Hindering the Prosecution. The FBI followed her and Jeff to Shawn’s house and took photos. She could have used Jeff’s abuse as a mitigating circumstance for the penalty process. Though at trial she likely stood no chance of not being convicted for helping to cover up. She may as well take the plea deal and save everyone the cost of an expensive trial and negotiate the punishment. Not to mention avoiding the embarrassment of her personal life being more scrutinized than it had been already during trial with almost nothing but he said/she said testimony.

 

[Vagabond]

Male athletes that make mistakes don't get it held over their heads for the rest of their lives. Yes Pistorius was sentenced to prison, but you don't see late-night comedians making fun of him.

I don't actually watch South African television. Apparently you do. What do the late-night comedians there make fun of?

 

[berthesghost]

So... being made fun of by comedians is worse than going to prison? that’s funny right there!

 

[VGThuy]

And we all know black male athletes have had it hard when they make mistakes. Don't tell me OJ had it easier than Tonya. He certainly is a joke a much bigger one and he was found "not guilty".

 

[cmk]

And we all know black male athletes have had it hard when they make mistakes. Don't tell me OJ had it easier than Tonya. He certainly is a joke a much bigger one and he was found "not guilty".

OJ had the money to afford the best lawyers. The cops and the DA also bungled the case. OJ still has money ( they can't touch his pension). Tonya didn't have the money for a top notch lawyer like OJ did. Her lawyer was her coach's husband. I suspect Tonya took the plea because she was running low on money, and didn't want to end up with a mountain of debt due to legal fees. Her income prospects at the time were also quite bleak.

Lawyers are very expensive even when its not a criminal case. I have no desire to ever administer an estate again. My mom died unexpectedly in 2016, and handling all the paperwork , dealing with lawyer and court, etc when you are still in mourning is very difficult. It was almost like a 2nd full time job and very stressful. Probate court moves at the pace of a snail. I was very relieved when everything was over. I do miss my mom.

It is plausible that Jeff did threaten to kill her if she said anything. She did claim Jeff and friends threatened to do just that in her book. The media doesn't go out seeking OJ and asking him " did you kill Nicole" . The same media wants to hold the whack over Tonya's head even though she didn't know about it prior, and did not do it herself. Men do get off easier than women when they make a mistake. Tyson got to box again. The only male athlete I recall that got a lifetime ban is Pete Rose. Rose's is for betting on the games of the Reds when he was the manager of the Reds. He was a great player, and it is sad that his actions as manager tarnished that. He still makes money selling autographs and there is a street in Cincy called Pete Rose Way.

The note wouldn't have stood up in court. There was a lot of different handwriting on it, including Jeff trying to forge Tonya's. The check was also for $10,000 of which $6,500 was supposed to go to Diane , Erika, and Tonya's rink for ice time. There isn't enough left over of that check to cover the $6,500 for the whack that Stant and Smith got assuming that Diane, Erika, and the rink got paid what was due then. There would of only been $3000 left from the check, and I am pretty sure Tonya didn't have $3500 in the bank. Jeff would of had to get the rest of the money from somewhere else (not sure where since he wasn't working at the time).

The guys were all able to start their own business's after getting out of prison as well. Jeff's 2nd wife had a hair and nail salon. Jeff was also convicted of beating his 2nd wife at least once. She turned to drugs and ended up in rehab. She passed away while a patient there He then married a 3rd time, and his 3rd wife raised Jeff's 2 kids from the previous marriage. Shawn had a short lived computer business that went under before he passed of a heart attack. Shane now owns a legal pot retail outlet in la ( I guess California doesn't do background checks or doesn't care).


Tonya did do short stints in the county jail for a dui (the standard punishment ) and the hubcap incident (they were both drunk, and he did admit to baiting her) that was provoked by him. I have no problem with that one since she actually did it. Hubcap guy also sold doctored photos to the globe that made his face look more bruised than it actually was. For some strange reason, she ended up going back to him after that happened.

I am happily single. I do have a male friend from work that I spend time with watching movies, etc. I wouldn't put up with any man abusing me, or of mooching off of me. I am not Tonya. I don't ice skate at all- just watch it. I did roller skate as a kid but no tricks. I am afraid of even trying to roller skate now (can't afford a broken bone). I have a female shih Tzu mix that keeps me busy and I am hoping for a warmup soon so I can actually take her for walks . Ohio has been very cold and snowy this month. She does like to play in it. I don't like to drive in it.

I wish Rawlinson would give just one interview. They did ask for her input on the movie but she didn't want anything to do with it. I think the actress did a good job of portraying her basing it on the past interviews from sharp edges and interviews prior to Tonya's plea.

 

[VGThuy]

The media doesn't ask if OJ killed Nicole because they assume that he did. From what I see, he doesn't seek media attention anymore...except when he wrote that book If I Did It which got incredible negative feedback from the public and media.