I, Tonya

Wyliefan said:
Kristi's a class act. Say what you will -- and I know I've defended Ashley and others -- but there's something to be said for training skaters not to let every single thought they have come out of their mouths. And it's more effective, too. All she had to do was laugh a little and delicately mention "artistic license," and you knew EXACTLY what she meant.
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I give Kristi's parents a lot of credit. It is a rare person that really can say nothing at all when they don't have something nice to say.
 
Should we mention that Nicole Bobek didn't have the "wholesome American family" either, and has a couple of felony convictions herself. ( home invasion as a teen that might of been expunged, and dealing meth to fund her habit as an adult). Nicole still gets invited to perform in skating shows despite the fact she was also known to slack on training. She failed to qualify at 94 worlds because she stopped training after nationals even though she knew that it was possibly neither Nancy or Tonya would attend that event.

I wish the plea bargain would of happened after worlds or that the note would never have shown up. What kind of restaurant goes that long before getting their waste removed anyway?. That has always bugged me about the note. I don't think the usfsa would of been as hard on Tonya (maybe a 1 year suspension instead of a lifetime ban) if she somehow managed to get it together and medal and give the us 3 spots for the next worlds.

Claire Ferguson also screwed up on world team after 98 Olympics where we had 3 spots. After Tara withdrew, Tonia K was named to the team along with Michelle. When Bobek withdrew as well, the alternate was Dick's favorite refrigerator break Angela N but she was on vacation in Bulgaria and couldn't be found. Claire failed to name an alternate for that, so Corwin wasn't able to claim the 3rd spot. Luckily , both Michelle and Tonia K skated well at 98 worlds and maintained the 3 spots for the following year.
 
cmk said:
Should we mention that Nicole Bobek didn't have the "wholesome American family" either, and has a couple of felony convictions herself. ( home invasion as a teen that might of been expunged, and dealing meth to fund her habit as an adult). Nicole still gets invited to perform in skating shows despite the fact she was also known to slack on training. She failed to qualify at 94 worlds because she stopped training after nationals even though she knew that it was possibly neither Nancy or Tonya would attend that event.

I wish the plea bargain would of happened after worlds or that the note would never have shown up. What kind of restaurant goes that long before getting their waste removed anyway?. That has always bugged me about the note. I don't think the usfsa would of been as hard on Tonya (maybe a 1 year suspension instead of a lifetime ban) if she somehow managed to get it together and medal and give the us 3 spots for the next worlds.

Claire Ferguson also screwed up on world team after 98 Olympics where we had 3 spots. After Tara withdrew, Tonia K was named to the team along with Michelle. When Bobek withdrew as well, the alternate was Dick's favorite refrigerator break Angela N but she was on vacation in Bulgaria and couldn't be found. Claire failed to name an alternate for that, so Corwin wasn't able to claim the 3rd spot. Luckily , both Michelle and Tonia K skated well at 98 worlds and maintained the 3 spots for the following year.
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I swear, Hi, Tonya!!!!

And otherwise, you have to be 'effin kidding me. The restaurant had a dumpster, and you don't know exactly when the Goon Squad put their bag in there. Not to mention that it was pretty unlikely that Tonya was suddenly going to skate much better at Olympics than she did at Worlds pull a medal and then all would be forgiven.

Hell, I wish, too. I wish she and her idiot squad had never come up with the whole idea. And I wish that Tonya had never gotten together with Jeff, that she hadn't been a smoker, and that she actually had a work ethic when it came to practicing and taking care of herself. But none of those things came true, either. This all still comes down to one thing - Tonya's worst enemy was herself. She could have been a greater champion - but she wouldn't put the work needed for it in, and her life has since become one big "not my fault."
 
Yazmeen said:
I wish she and her idiot squad had never come up with the whole idea. And I wish that Tonya had never gotten together with Jeff, that she hadn't been a smoker, and that she actually had a work ethic when it came to practicing and taking care of herself. But none of those things came true, either. This all still comes down to one thing - Tonya's worst enemy was herself. She could have been a greater champion - but she wouldn't put the work needed for it in, and her life has since become one big "not my fault."
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You speak for me.
 
cmk said:
I wish the plea bargain would of happened after worlds or that the note would never have shown up. What kind of restaurant goes that long before getting their waste removed anyway?. That has always bugged me about the note. I don't think the usfsa would of been as hard on Tonya (maybe a 1 year suspension instead of a lifetime ban) if she somehow managed to get it together and medal and give the us 3 spots for the next worlds.
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What kind of person thinks the US spots for the next Worlds is so earth-shakingly vital that would prefer someone who was complicit (if not worse) in the wounding of a fellow athlete to not be punished until after 94 worlds? Or wishes the note never showed up? That's taking uberdom to a ridiculous level. To this day I hate the fact that the usfs caved & sent her to the Olys.
 
bardtoob said:
I give Kristi's parents a lot of credit. It is a rare person that really can say nothing at all when they don't have something nice to say.
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She's ever the politician. Comments so open to interpretation it can say whatever the listener wants and other innocuous anecdotes.
 
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taf2002 said:
What kind of person thinks the US spots for the next Worlds is so earth-shakingly vital that would prefer someone who was complicit (if not worse) in the wounding of a fellow athlete to not be punished until after 94 worlds? Or wishes the note never showed up? That's taking uberdom to a ridiculous level. To this day I hate the fact that the usfs caved & sent her to the Olys.
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The usfsa never tried to remove Tonya from the world team for one thing. The note is just so strange that it almost feels like a setup. I think its plausible that Jeff could of tricked her into getting the info ( the picture story- that Kristi supposedly signed (that one could easily be confirmed simply by asking if she signed the darn picture), or stupid bet. If Jeff was supposed to take $6,500 of that $10,000 and pay it to Diane and Erika for coaching fees and ice time, there isn't enough left over to fund the attack (assuming of course that he did pay Diane and Erika). Jeff was also known to have abused Tonya so her keeping quiet out of fear is also plausible.

The plea bargain happened shortly before worlds. Since Nancy had already withdrawn, I don't believe the usfsa wanted to pin their hopes on Kwan managing a top 10 finish (which fortuntately for them she did) or an inconstant Bobek (who was capable of finished anywhere from first to last).
 
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I’m guessing the Multnomah Co. DA’s office made Tonya resign her USFSA membership as part of the plea bargaining at the behest of the USFSA for the express purpose of keeping her from going to World’s.
 
Inessence said:
I’m guessing the Multnomah Co. DA’s office made Tonya resign her USFSA membership as part of the plea bargaining at the behest of the USFSA for the express purpose of keeping her from going to World’s.
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the articles from the time all mention how hastily organized the plea deal was and that it was a week before worlds.
 
cmk said:
I don't believe the usfsa wanted to pin their hopes on Kwan managing a top 10 finish (which fortuntately for them she did) or an inconstant Bobek (who was capable of finished anywhere from first to last).
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we’ll have to agree to disagree about that! Pinning their hopes on Kwan and Bobek is exactly what usfs proceeded to do for the next 4 years. One could argue that their 3rd and 4th in ‘95 was because they got the kinks out at a post-oly worlds in ‘94 which for many is a sort of throw-away comp. I know that hope springs eternal for inconsistent skaters like Harding and Bobek, but Harding finishing top 5 in Chiba to gain a 3rd spot wasn’t a given. She was skating like crap and the judges were so done with her.
 
berthesghost said:
we’ll have to agree to disagree about that! Pinning their hopes on Kwan and Bobek is exactly what usfs proceeded to do for the next 4 years. One could argue that their 3rd and 4th in ‘95 was because they got the kinks out at a post-oly worlds in ‘94 which for many is a sort of throw-away comp. I know that hope springs eternal for inconsistent skaters like Harding and Bobek, but Harding finishing top 5 in Chiba to gain a 3rd spot wasn’t a given. She was skating like crap and the judges were so done with her.
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I don't think they wanted to kick Tonya off the world team after Nancy withdrew. Without the homewrecker there ( dating your agent while he is married to someone else and robbing her kids of their dad is also wrong), I think Tonya would of skated better. 94 worlds- only Sato and Bonaly skated well (and Surya probably should of won). Josee was expected to medal with all 3 medalists from worlds missing, but screwed up anyway . Kwan struggled in the short but had a good long to pull into the top 10 to get the 2 spots. Bobek failed to qualifying after not preparing for the event.
I wonder how well you would of performed if you had the media hounding you 24/7, having to go to court when you should of been practicing just to preserve your place on the team, and having every detail of your life being twisted in a negative way. The very same details that were presented in a positive way at 92 Olympics I might add (remember the all-American tomboy profile).

Conversely, Kerrigan was presented as a "snow white" type ice princess when in reality she was a tomboy herself. If only Brenda Kerrigan had been more enlightened when Nancywanted to play hockey at 6 like her brothers instead of saying boys play hockey, girls skate there would of been no whack either. They also conveniently overlooked the bad seed in Nancy's family ( the brother that would later go on to kll their father that Nancy pleaded for mercy for by the way), and Nancy's affair with the still married agent. (that was wrong and immoral )

Tonya skated very well at 94 nationals (and I believe that wouldn't have beat Oksana if she had been able to repeat it but it should of been enough to beat Nancy) but with all the stress of what Jeff did behind her back, she wasn't able to concentrate, and was also competing with a swollen ankle at the Olympics that only a couple of papers bothered to report on. Nancy was just as inconsistent as Tonya , but was often gifted medals despite poor free skates (92 Olympics, 92 worlds, 93 nationals).

The usfsa didn't want to pin their hopes on 2 skaters making their world teams (Kwan and Bobek) after what happened with Ervin and Kwiatkowski in 93. I do believe there is corruption in the usfsa, the usoc, the ioc, usa gymnastics, usa cycling (I am sure they wish Lance Armstrong have never been caught doping), etc. Judges in skating cheat and influence medal results, get caught, suspended for a while , only to come back and judge another day. Why should the athlete be held to a higher standard than the judges?.

Male athletes who have done far worse than Tonya don't get banned or hated on. OJ Simpson killed 2 people and he doesn't get the negative press Tonya does. Mike Tyson bit Evander's ear, and was eventually allowed to box again. Pistorius killed his girlfriend and I don't see anyone hating on him. Of course, if they had been Tony and Nate, Tony's athletic ability would of been appreciated much more and Nate might not of even made it to nationals.
 
berthesghost said:
I’m guessing the Multnomah Co. DA’s office made Tonya resign her USFSA membership as part of the plea bargaining at the behest of the USFSA for the express purpose of keeping her from going to World’s.
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I'm guessing the DA's office deal and any punishments from the USFSA had nothing to do with each other, and that the movie conflating them was pure artistic license.

Of course, if Harding's deal with the DA included a provision that she couldn't travel outside of Oregon, that in itself would take her off the World team.

cmk said:
Tonya skated very well at 94 nationals (and I believe that wouldn't have beat Oksana if she had been able to repeat it but it should of been enough to beat Nancy)
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She did skate very well at Nationals. It was my first time watching elite skating live, and my impression was that Harding was in a class of her own in that field. Of course, Kerrigan wasn't competing.

However, I did note that Harding did no true combination in her freeskate. I think she would have needed at least one to medal at the Olympics. Or else a clean triple axel and not a pop.

She might have won the short program repeating what she did in Detroit, though.

but with all the stress of what Jeff did behind her back, she wasn't able to concentrate,
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Well, and all the media hounding her between Nationals and Olympics. No wonder she wasn't prepared.

The truth of whether she brought that on herself by participating in the plan to attack Kerrigan, or whether it was all Jeff's initiative behind her back until after the fact, we'll probably never know for sure.
 
gkelly said:
I'm guessing the DA's office deal and any punishments from the USFSA had nothing to do with each other, and that the movie conflating them was pure artistic license.

Of course, if Harding's deal with the DA included a provision that she couldn't travel outside of Oregon, that in itself would take her off the World team.
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why guess when it was all well documented.

She went to court in March of 94 a week before worlds and purposefully accepted a plea that included resignation of membership in usfs. You can’t represent usfs at worlds if you’re not a member. By accepting the plea she accepted that she’d never go to worlds.

Later in July of 94 usfs met and voted to ban her for life, meaning that she would never be able to reapply for membership or be invited to compete in usfs sanctioned tours and pro or pro-am comps.

It’s possible that she somehow thought she could leave usfs in March and then once the dust settled and the drama faded they may let her back in, hence all of the “I had no idea they’d do that!” back-peddling. If she did think that, it’s just yet another example of how Tonya often read the room wrong.

I think usfs wanted her in Chiba like they wanted anthrax. This is one thing I never get about pro-Tonya defense scenarios. I’m suppose to believe they hated her guts with a borderline crazy passion, yet would send her to worlds why: so that maybe next year they could send Tonia k or Kyoto ina to worlds along with rising stars bobeck and Kwan? It doesn’t make sense to me. They already had two hopeful to replace Tonya and Nancy, and 95 was one of the weakest fields at nats imho. Tara was a phenom, that’s true, but a 13 yo upstart doesn’t get on the podium her first try (in 96) because the field is packed with talent
 
cmk said:
Male athletes who have done far worse than Tonya don't get banned or hated on. OJ Simpson killed 2 people and he doesn't get the negative press Tonya does. Mike Tyson bit Evander's ear, and was eventually allowed to box again. Pistorius killed his girlfriend and I don't see anyone hating on him. Of course, if they had been Tony and Nate, Tony's athletic ability would of been appreciated much more and Nate might not of even made it to nationals.
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I don’t know what your definition of “hating” on is but Pistorius is going to jail and was (rightly) vilified in the press.
 
cmk said:
The usfsa never tried to remove Tonya from the world team for one thing. The note is just so strange that it almost feels like a setup. I think its plausible that Jeff could of tricked her into getting the info ( the picture story- that Kristi supposedly signed (that one could easily be confirmed simply by asking if she signed the darn picture), or stupid bet. If Jeff was supposed to take $6,500 of that $10,000 and pay it to Diane and Erika for coaching fees and ice time, there isn't enough left over to fund the attack (assuming of course that he did pay Diane and Erika). Jeff was also known to have abused Tonya so her keeping quiet out of fear is also plausible.

The plea bargain happened shortly before worlds. Since Nancy had already withdrawn, I don't believe the usfsa wanted to pin their hopes on Kwan managing a top 10 finish (which fortuntately for them she did) or an inconstant Bobek (who was capable of finished anywhere from first to last).
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It is a shame Tonya didn't go to the 94 worlds as with the field she had a great shot at the bronze atleast which went to Tanja Szewcenko who didn't have a triple lutz (not really, she landed some 2 footed ones) or triple flip yet. Tonya skating even decently would be almost sure to beat her unless she made a big enough mistake in the short to be more than 2 spots behind. She would have had a great shot of a 2nd world medal to end her career, which they couldn't have found any means to take away I don't think.
 
cmk said:
The usfsa never tried to remove Tonya from the world team for one thing.

The plea bargain happened shortly before worlds. Since Nancy had already withdrawn, I don't believe the usfsa wanted to pin their hopes on Kwan managing a top 10 finish (which fortuntately for them she did) or an inconstant Bobek (who was capable of finished anywhere from first to last).
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They wanted to remove her from the O team (Tonya threatened to sue, they caved) so I'm not sure why you think they wanted her on the world team. For next year's spots? GMAFB! If anything people would assume that Kwan & Bobek combined would be able to meet the criteria for 2 spots at least. And if not they would have 4 years to rebuild. Everything I saw & heard after the whack suggests that the USFSA wanted to be rid of Tonya once & for all.
 
sylvestercat said:
It is a shame Tonya didn't go to the 94 worlds as with the field she had a great shot at the bronze atleast which went to Tanja Szewcenko who didn't have a triple lutz (not really, she landed some 2 footed ones) or triple flip yet. Tonya skating even decently would be almost sure to beat her unless she made a big enough mistake in the short to be more than 2 spots behind. She would have had a great shot of a 2nd world medal to end her career, which they couldn't have found any means to take away I don't think.
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Why is it a shame? Weren't there enough tasteless antics at 94 Worlds for you?
 
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