I, Tonya

[Yazmeen]

I believe one of the most basic reasons why people dislike or frankly don't trust Tonya is actually the movie's sort-of tagline - "there's no such thing as the truth." Because that is truly definitive of Tonya. Her "truth" evolves continuously, the story constantly changes in seeming desperation designed to get people to sympathize with her and believe she's always a victim, never responsible for her own choices.

Case in point: In "The Price of Gold," Tonya once again revised her story to claim she hardly knew any of Jeff's "idiot friends" who perpetrated the whack. In both this documentary and the one that NBC ran during the Olympics hosted by Mary Carillo, Tonya claimed Shawn Eckhardt was "not her bodyguard" and again, she didn't know him at all. But Carillo smartly followed up Tonya's statement by showing the clip from 1994 where Tonya told the various reporters stalking her that "This is Shawn, my bodyguard." Oops...

Yes, Tonya was an abused child. Yes, she had a rough life. But the simple fact is, had Tonya really combined hard work and dedication to practice with her natural talent back in 1992 instead of constantly slacking off, she would likely (hell, definitely) have been wearing a medal on the Albertville podium instead of Nancy and might have been on the top step. One article about the ESPN documentary described Tonya brilliantly: "a walking contradiction." The biggest enemy is Tonya's life was not her mother, Nancy Kerrigan, Jeff, USFS, skating judges, or anyone else. It was Tonya herself, period. She sabotaged herself over and over, and the blame rests on her shoulders. She really had a way out and she indeed eff'd it up, pretty much completely after her national championship victory in 1991.

 

[skatesindreams]

I'm sure that we'll hear more versions of the "truth" from Tonya in her new interview:
http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/tonya-harding-abc-news-interview-i-tonya-1202646218/

 

[Jun Y]

As someone who didn't closely follow "the incident" in 94 and knew even less about Harding before 94, all I can say is wow ... I had no idea there was so much drama around Tonya even before "the incident." Just the times of equipment malfunction alone outnumbered that of Nathan Chen (although Chen's career is still young). Plus the drama around going to 92 Olys late. Do any other top skaters regularly have a bodyguard? I can imagine Hanyu having one nowadays but any American skaters? No wonder the media found (and still find) Harding fascinating. I would too, if I were in that business.

Learning all this stuff from this thread makes me even more disappointed about the movie. I feel like the writer and the director have missed most of the point of Tonya's story. The wildly contradictory interviews of them two that prompted this movie were only a tip of the iceberg in this complex and chaotic saga ...

 

[meggonzo]

She was better than the silver medalist Nancy(who did not deserve the gold and that skate was not flawless- doubled flip, sloppy 2axel, 2nd 3toe was underrotated, spins were not the best, and the lack of speed )

I don't really think we should criticize Nancy for a 3toe being UR in a 3/3 combo when the only combo Oksana could manage was a sloppy 2axel/2toe at the end of her program. I never noticed that the second 3toe was under anyways. Did anyone else even attempt a 3/3 that competition?

 

[Vagabond]

@cmk You have taken issue with the Canadian judge's remarks about Tonya Harding at least twice in this thread. It seems clear to me that she was talking about Harding if she skated at her absolute best as of 1993-94, more than two years after she last landed a triple axel in competition. Harding was third to Baiul and Bonaly in Skate America that season and fourth to to Bonaly, Sato, and Lu. There was not much reason to think that she would have finished ahead of any of these four skaters or Kerrigan in Norway unless they bombed.

 

[Clay]

I don't really think we should criticize Nancy for a 3toe being UR in a 3/3 combo when the only combo Oksana could manage was a sloppy 2axel/2toe at the end of her program. I never noticed that the second 3toe was under anyways. Did anyone else even attempt a 3/3 that competition?

Yes, a more difficult one, too! Krisztina Czako landed a triple salchow-triple toe just before Tonya's lace incident in the third group.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ945-KGfdk

 

[slipchuk]

The Canadian judges comment on Harding are accurate. Harding's best by 94 would have been like what she did at the 94 Nationals and event that never medals unless almost all the favorites mess up. Great quality jumps but no jump combinations ala Baiul, only 4 triples and a 5th two footed one (triple toe), pretty good spins, but sure to get much lower artistic marks than the top contenders and lesser jump content with that too, and a lower reputation having not been a real contender since 91. As it was with Bonaly, Sato, and Josee all making major mistakes in one or both programs it might have gotten her 4th place had she duplicated it at the Games, but that is it. And she rarely skated at the level she did at even the 94 Nationals by that point, usually she was far worse than she was there.

Harding without a triple axel had no shot of a medal, and she wasnt even able to do a triple axel anymore. She landed maybe 10% of the ones she tried in practice which into competition where it is far harder to do jumps you struggle on would translate into about 0% shot. She never had any triple-triples other than the triple toe-triple toe but she wasnt even doing that anymore by 84 either. So her jump content without the triple axel is way behind Bonaly (who was doing triple-triples, 2 lutzes, trying 7 or 8 triples per perogram), also considerably behind Kerrigan and Chen, and even behind Sato and Choinaurd, maybe on par with Baiul at most. Add to that weaker artistry and by then lower reputation having allowed herself to plummet way down the ranks with her 92 and 93 problems, and of course even at her best she wasnt a big factor by that point.

Ironically despite the 92 field being tougher she had much more shot in 92 than 94. Skating reasonably well she was certain to medal in 92, and with neither Ito or Yamaguchi being at their best her performances from the 91 Nationals or 91 Skate America likely would have won gold in Albertville. That was her blown opportunity, 94 was never much of a shot even pre whack.

 

[MacMadame]

I did see an interview with Rawlinson where she said the olympic committee was monitoring her and she had to pass 3 test skates before she could go to Albertville. Its on you tube, and its either 93 or 94.

But does it say that that's why Tonya stayed in Portland so long and was late coming to Albertville. I notice you also conveniently don't provide a link to this supposed proof so who knows what it actually says.

Where is Tonya? was a constant topic of the commentators at the '92 Olympics. They hashed it to death on the air. They reported that Tonya's coach said it was Tonya's idea because she felt more comfortable at her home rink and never got jet lag. After her skate, Tonya was interviewed and said the exact same thing. She insisted that coming late did not account for the mistakes in her LP and insisted it was a great idea.

This new story is just revisionist BS.

 

[Vagabond]

But does it say that that's why Tonya stayed in Portland so long and was late coming to Albertville. I notice you also conveniently don't provide a link to this supposed proof so who knows what it actually says.

cmk wasn't the person who posted the link, and you are just as capable of going back and checking earlier posts in this thread as anyone else. It's there, posted by someone else in this thread on December 14.

 

[meggonzo]

Also, Inessence just posted the link again last night (Dec 21).

I don't think anyone is claiming that the details haven't been exaggerated from 1992 to now ...

 

[MacMadame]

Also, Inessence just posted the link again last night (Dec 21).

All I see is a link to an article in the Daily Post that is current and doesn't talk about Albertville at all. So you can save your and I'll see you a

I am looking for a link that shows Tonya or someone from her team claiming that she went to Albertville late because USFS made her that is from the time period of Albertville. So far, no one has provided that. What has been provided is a link to the Sports Illustrated article that says it was all Tonya's idea. Which what was said at the time.

cmk wasn't the person who posted the link, and you are just as capable of going back and checking earlier posts in this thread as anyone else. It's there, posted by someone else in this thread on December 14.

The link posted on Dec 14th is from a 2010 interview, not 1992 and it says that USFS waited until the week before the games to finalize her going. Even if you believe that, that does not explain why she waited until right before the competition to show up (2.5 weeks later). So the interview does not support the claim that she had to stay in Portland until right before the competition because USFS *made her* wait that long.

 

[meggonzo]

All I see is a link to an article in the Daily Post that is current and doesn't talk about Albertville at all. So you can save your and I'll see you a

I am looking for a link that shows Tonya or someone from her team claiming that she went to Albertville late because USFS made her that is from the time period of Albertville. So far, no one has provided that. What has been provided is a link to the Sports Illustrated article that says it was all Tonya's idea. Which what was said at the time.


The link posted on Dec 14th is from a 2010 interview, not 1992 and it says that USFS waited until the week before the games to finalize her going. Even if you believe that, that does not explain why she waited until right before the competition to show up (2.5 weeks later). So the interview does not support the claim that she had to stay in Portland until right before the competition because USFS *made her* wait that long.

This YouTube video that was posted yesterday in post #857 has footage from 1992 or 1993? Tonya has bangs so it has to be earlier than 1994. Rawlinson states in this video that Tonya was monitored by USFS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbMQW8nGuS8&t=19s
I guess there is some degree of reality there, but the facts are probably being exaggerated and distorted as time went on.

 

[berthesghost]

Rawlinson states in this video that Tonya was monitored by USFS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbMQW8nGuS8&t=19s
I guess there is some degree of reality there, but the facts are probably being exaggerated and distorted as time went on.

ya think? Rawlinson also claims here that other US ladies all want to travel to Germany but only Tonya wants to do SA because she's a jeep buying patriot. Then you almost hear a little woosh sound as her credibility flies out the window

 

[VGThuy]

Ever since someone told me that Rawlinson’s hair was a wig, that’s all I can see.

 

[MacMadame]

Rawlinson states in this video that Tonya was monitored by USFS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbMQW8nGuS8&t=19s

But doesn't state that this monitoring happened during the Olympics and forced Tonya to come late as was originally claimed earlier in the thread.

Ever since someone told me that Rawlinson’s hair was a wig, that’s all I can see.

 

[meggonzo]

But doesn't state that this monitoring happened during the Olympics and forced Tonya to come late as was originally claimed earlier in the thread.

That's exactly what Rawlinson is claiming. Besides I thought people were originally wondering if this was a "new" excuse and just wanted to know if something like this was actually stated at the time.

 

[gkelly]

That's exactly what Rawlinson is claiming.

The Olympics lasts for two weeks or so, not the one week or less of Worlds, and the ladies figure skating is at the end of those two weeks.

If USFSA didn't decide until "one week before the Games" whether to confirm Harding's participation, she still would have had two weeks to get to Albertville before her event, probably a whole week before the Opening Ceremony.

Rawlinson was not saying that Tonya was being monitored in Oregon after the Olympics had already begun and thus was unavailable to travel more than 3 days before her event began.

 

[CoolGuy]

She was better than the silver medalist Nancy(who did not deserve the gold and that skate was not flawless- doubled flip, sloppy 2axel, 2nd 3toe was underrotated, spins were not the best, and the lack of speed )

It most certainly was not. The second triple toe was 100% fully rotated, which is so plainly visible in the Japanese HD broadcast of the event, that there is absolutely no need to use slow motion to check the rotation; however, if you remain unconvinced, feel free to use Youtube's .25 speed setting to double check.

https://youtu.be/sGT_prx-03Y?t=91

or you can check any other broadcast's slow motion replay of the jump, which even at the worst quality, you can tell that the jump is unquestionably 100% rotated:

https://youtu.be/PscyRGo6rJQ?t=387
https://youtu.be/N7RvWbnaDZk?t=348

 

[meggonzo]

The Olympics lasts for two weeks or so, not the one week or less of Worlds, and the ladies figure skating is at the end of those two weeks.

If USFSA didn't decide until "one week before the Games" whether to confirm Harding's participation, she still would have had two weeks to get to Albertville before her event, probably a whole week before the Opening Ceremony.

Rawlinson was not saying that Tonya was being monitored in Oregon after the Olympics had already begun and thus was unavailable to travel more than 3 days before her event began.

Yeah, I keep stating that the events have been exaggerated and distorted. I am more taking issue with MacMadame being obnoxious about people providing a source from the Albertville time period, when footage from circa 92/93 had already been posted 3 times from 3 different posters. My take was that people were looking for someone stating this at the time and not making it up now for the movie, not a daily schedule of what Tonya was doing in February 1992. Which she actually does give in the video and she and Diane say she stayed longer at home because she thought she needed more training time.

 

[meggonzo]

Yes, a more difficult one, too! Krisztina Czako landed a triple salchow-triple toe just before Tonya's lace incident in the third group.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ945-KGfdk

I forgot about Surya as well! She did a 3toe/half loop/3 salchow and a 3flip/3toe, but the toe was underrotated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5ugmU-_EXc

 

[bardtoob]

Rawlinson also claims here that other US ladies all want to travel to Germany but only Tonya wants to do SA because she's a jeep buying patriot.

Ummm ... I think that is probably VERY TRUE. I bet Tonya also supported the military back then, loved stores that were the equivalent to the Bass Pro Shop and Cabela's, camping, fishing boats, liked venison and rainbow trout ... etc. There gets to be a point where something about Tonya has to be authentic, and probably everything that involves white working class culture and 80s teenager girl that celebrates liberty from proper upper class society (Girls Just Want to Have Fun) are probably true.

. . . Tonya was taken by 80s American Youth Culture as much as anybody, which is obvious in that she skated to the 80s MTV Video Class 99 Red Balloons in Exhibition. (WOW THE LAYBACK AT THE END IS REALLY SOMETHING!)

 

[skatingfan5]

Yeah, I keep stating that the events have been exaggerated and distorted. ..... Which she actually does give in the video and she and Diane say she stayed longer at home because she thought she needed more training time.

So it was Tonya's decision/choice to not get to Albertville earlier, not that she was detained by the USFS? To me that is a lot more than exaggeration or distortion. That is a very significant difference in who was responsible for Tonya arriving so late.

 

[bardtoob]

So it was Tonya's decision/choice to not get to Albertville earlier, not that she was detained by the USFS? To me that is a lot more than exaggeration or distortion. That is a very significant difference in who was responsible for Tonya arriving so late.

I gathered from the part after Rawlinson spoke, when Tonya described her training schedule, that she was definitely getting more ice time than she would have gotten at the Olympics in the official practices had she gone on time.

 

[meggonzo]

So it was Tonya's decision/choice to not get to Albertville earlier, not that she was detained by the USFS? To me that is a lot more than exaggeration or distortion. That is a very significant difference in who was responsible for Tonya arriving so late.

I'd have to go back and re-read this thread more closely, but I am not sure who exactly presented the story that it was the USFSA's "fault" that Tonya arrived so late to Albertville. I have not seen the movie yet since it's not in my city. I think someone had just posted the information and the video that Tonya wasn't finalized to the Olympic team until a week before the Olympics started. I had never known that myself since I assumed she was named to the team at Nationals and that was that. Anyways, so I'm not sure if Tonya was actually blaming the USFSA or if this story just got distorted in this thread.

 

[bardtoob]

I think it is not a good idea to equate "fault" and "reason" when it comes to Tonya being late to the 1992 Olympics. There was a reason she was late, and this is it.

I think it is legitimate that Tonya's fitness needed to be confirmed.

I think it is legitimate that Tonya did not want to buy tickets to France before she knew she had a reason to go.

 

[skatingguy]

I think it is legitimate that Tonya did not want to buy tickets to France before she knew she had a reason to go.

Doesn't the USOC pay for travel to the Olympics of US athletes?

 

[bardtoob]

Doesn't the USOC pay for travel to the Olympics of US athletes?

Only if they are an Olympian. If Tonya had tickets before she was an Olympian then she would have been out of the cost for both her and her team.

 

[VGThuy]

I really find it difficult to believe that Tonya didn't know she'd be an Olympian until a few days before the SP. I think she knew way ahead of that even if she had to go through monitoring sessions. I think it was ultimately her choice to head to Albertville a few days before the Ladies SP. She probably thought it was a good choice at the time and stuck by that story publicly until this movie. Yes, we have Rawlinson, who wasn't her coach during Albertville, being interviewed and saying that (though I think she was purposefully vague and didn't really give any time stamps or details about the monitoring sessions and when Tonya was given the OK to make that story garner sympathy because more details may have meant Tonya really had no reason why she arrived as late as she did and plus I don't know if she had direct knowledge), but Tonya never said that publicly as far as I know.

 

[berthesghost]

Tonya's patriotism, like pretty much anytime patriotism is gratuitously brought up out of context, is irrelevant and probably a smoke screen. The "lie" is that Diane wants us all to deny what we see with our own eyes and believe that the top US ladies never go to SA, never want to go to SA, would rather travel far to compete in other countries, namely one we were previously at war with, and Tonya was willing to slum it at the country's premier international event the other ladies don't respect, because she's a true American. It's not just flagrant bs, it's insidious accusations against her student's rivals. I found it downright smarmy.

 

[VGThuy]

Tonya's patriotism, like pretty much anytime patriotism is gratuitously brought up out of context, is irrelevant and probably a smoke screen. The "lie" is that Diane wants us all to deny what we see with our own eyes and believe that the top US ladies never go to SA, never want to go to SA, would rather travel far to compete in other countries, namely one we were previously at war with, and Tonya was willing to slum it at the country's premier international event the other ladies don't respect, because she's a true American. It's not just flagrant bs, it's insidious accusations against her student's rivals. I found it downright swarmy.

That's what I took from it too except for the war bit. I don't think most were thinking about that part of it.