I, Tonya

[bardtoob]

Fleming are more of a typical al-anon stereotype internalizing and hiding their issues so that once it comes out that they were once homeless, it’s more shocking.

Good point.

 

[Inessence]

Tonya was very forthcoming about her life’s troubles in a Sports Illustrated article while she was still the 1991 National Champion, and before the ‘92 Olympics. At that time it wasn’t making excuses for her performances.

 

[jenny12]

I went to see the movie in LA yesterday and, to put on my fake critic hat on, I’d give it 2.5 out of four stars. I’m not too concerned about the accuracy issues but as a movie itself, I thought it was sometimes entertaining but off as far as the tone and didn’t think the attempted switches between the comedy and drama worked. Everything and every performance (with the exception of Sebastian Stan who I think gives a pretty layered picture of an abuser) was pretty one note throughout. I love Allison Janney, but I found her LaVona came off as cartoonishly monsterous which might be true but within the context of the film took me a bit out of it. I thought Margot Robbie was fine but didn’t do anything interesting with the character IMO. She just came off as a hard working girl who was always a victim and whether true or not, that doesn’t make for a particularly interesting movie character. I felt it was a straightforward, competent performance, but it did not provide any further insight that would have pushed it into being a memorable portrayal. For example, it is clear that skating provided an escape for her and was a place where she finally felt she could be proud of herself, but the film tells that to us instead of shows it, so it is tough to really feel connected with the characterization. There is a big deal made within the movie about Tonya not being the image that skating wanted, but I don't think Robbie goes far enough to show us that Tonya was so different than the other skating women so that whole thing felt like an empty struggle within the context of the film at least. Overall, I think the director was attempting to do something interesting with the structure of story and there were specific scenes that worked, but I don’t think the director and writer did enough to say something interesting about the content of story itself. The film forced a message at the end that felt alternately too on the nose and unearned.

 

[VGThuy]

Sounds like Julie Brown still gives the most interesting take on Tonya.

 

[Sylvia]

Phil Hersh's take on I, Tonya: http://www.globetrottingbyphilipher...ya-harding-nancy-kerrigan-movie-margot-robbie

 

[bardtoob]

Phil Hersh's take on I, Tonya: http://www.globetrottingbyphilipher...ya-harding-nancy-kerrigan-movie-margot-robbie

That last sentence summed it up.

 

[Inessence]

That last sentence summed it up.

With a lot of help from sycophants. Had they not interfered she might have had a nice pro career coaching or with Ice Capades, even without an Olympic medal.

 

[berthesghost]

With a lot of help from sycophants. Had they not interfered she might have had a nice pro career coaching or with Ice Capades, even without an Olympic medal.

Depends on how he meant it.
Could be “she had a way out (of the scandal, as in blab all you know to the police as soon as you hear it) but instead f-ed up (decided to cover up her abusive ex-husband’s crime and got herself banned for life after admitting to obstruction of justice)”
As Tatiana would say: “choices”

 

[Inessence]

Depends on how he meant it.
Could be “she had a way out (of the scandal, as in blab all you know to the police as soon as you hear it) but instead f-ed up (decided to cover up her abusive ex-husband’s crime and got herself banned for life after admitting to obstruction of justice)”
As Tatiana would say: “choices”

Good point. Although she was put in a bad position, living out in the middle of nowhere with Gillooly when the news broke. I mean, out of media scrutiny, living inside a shack on fully-fenced acreage where no one could hear you scream "middle of nowhere."

 

[skatingfan5]

Depends on how he meant it.

I thought he meant it in the context of those same words said by Tonya in the movie (shortly after Albertville).

 

[Theoreticalgirl]

FYI, it's finally screening in the Philadelphia area (or I should say, screening again, as it was at the PFF):

https://www.landmarktheatres.com/philadelphia/ritz-at-the-bourse/film-info/i-tonya

 

[Inessence]

The Portland Monthly article has posted: https://www.pdxmonthly.com/articles...g-is-back-on-the-ice-and-on-the-silver-screen

Another great article about "I, Tonya" and rampant sexism in the media: http://www.dazeddigital.com/film-tv...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

“Celebrity media has always been notoriously vicious toward women. Paparazzi are bloodthirsty for a nip-slip, a crotch shot, a sloshed Lindsay Lohan pouring out of a club, a nude leak from a Disney star, an Amanda Bynes-like decline”

 

[jenniferlyon]

From Christine Brennan:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...sympathy-but-lets-not-forget-facts/971183001/

Oh, Tonya. I covered every preposterous second of the Tonya-Nancy saga from Jan. 6-Feb. 25, 1994. I’ve seen the movie twice. There were times I laughed out loud. Some of the acting is wonderful. But the movie certainly doesn’t worry about letting the facts get in the way of a good story or bother to tell you that the only person Tonya has to blame for her monumental athletic failures is herself.

 

[Inessence]

Another Portland Monthly article ranking I, Tonya against other figure skating movies. I contend they have Ice Castles and The Cutting Edge backwards.
https://www.pdxmonthly.com/articles...tonya-rank-against-other-figure-skating-films.

Also, Christine Brennan just posted her USA Today column about I, Tonya. (Inconsequential, but she could have done a little fact checking at places herself.)

"Then she didn’t show up at the 1992 Games in the French Alps until just three days before her competition, claiming she never got jet-lagged. After finishing fourth, she admitted that, yes, she was jet-lagged. Soon afterward, she split with the best coach she ever had and let her soon-to-be-ex-husband help train her – when she actually decided to practice, which wasn’t often."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...sympathy-but-lets-not-forget-facts/971183001/

This temporary split with Teachman happened in 1991 before the first time Harding separated from Gillooly. After the 1992 Olympics, she went back to Rawlinson permanently at Gillooly's behest. It's also worth noting that Teachman helped Tonya leave Jeff that first time and had her move in with her. Harding's hugest mistake was getting back together shortly before Olys with him because she felt so "alone" at this most momentous time of her life.

 

[Japanfan]

But that’s apples and oranges too I suppose as I’m sure it’s easier to cast these challenges as adversity you overcame when you have an OGM and ice capades contract vs excuses on why your gaols weren’t met.

Tonya is neither the first nor the last skater to not take full responsibility for not meeting goals or fulfilling potential. That takes a level of maturity that a lot of young skaters haven't yet achieved, especially when they've lived their life within the protective bubble of the figure skating world.

Anyone remember the time Emanuel Sandhu claimed there was a ghost in his hotel room?

 

[VGThuy]

Anyone remember the time Emanuel Sandhu claimed their was a ghost in his hotel room?

I probably shouldn't make fun because there are people who seriously believe in ghosts.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Brennan really harps on and on about Harding leaving late for Albertville (without knowing Diane Rawlinson's side of the story), as well as claiming that Tonya was in on Nancy's attack from the start, in the latest TSL interview with her.

At times I thought, honey, if it wasn't for Tonya, you wouldn't have the career you have.

 

[Erin]

Anyone remember the time Emanuel Sandhu claimed their was a ghost in his hotel room?

Yeah it was in Saskatoon, at the Delta Bessborough...I can't remember if it was 2001 Skate Canada (where he had a poor free program) or 2003 Canadians (where he had a poor short program). Either way, it was a doozy of an excuse.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I probably shouldn't make fun because there are people who seriously believe in ghosts.

His coach, Joanne McCloud is rather scary and manic, so it sort of makes sense.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Tonya is neither the first nor the last skater to not take full responsibility for not meeting goals or fulfilling potential. That takes a level of maturity that a lot of young skaters haven't yet achieved, especially when they've lived their life within the protective bubble of the figure skating world.

I think you have also tapped into the main difference between Ashley Wagner and Gracie Gold.

Ashley is definitely the boss of her career, whereas Gold appeared to be at the mercy of people who told her what to do.

 

[Erin]

Brennan really harps on and on about Harding leaving late for Albertville (without knowing Diane Rawlinson's side of the story)

Teachman was Tonya's coach in Albertville and she has always maintained that Tonya should have left earlier. I would say that her opinion would be more relevant than Rawlinson's who would only have her information second hand from Harding.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Teachman was Tonya's coach in Albertville and she has always maintained that Tonya should have left earlier. I would say that her opinion would be more relevant than Rawlinson's who would only have her information second hand from Harding.

I'll see if I can find that clip for you where Diane talks about Tonya's troubles with the USFSA, prior to leaving for Albertville.

 

[Erin]

I'll see if I can find that clip for you where Diane talks about Tonya's troubles with the USFSA, prior to leaving for Albertville.

I've seen the clip. I just think that Diane would have heard her information from Tonya. She wasn't Tonya's coach at the time and wasn't there.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I've seen the clip. I just think that Diane would have heard her information from Tonya.

Well, everything in this thread is our opinion. I thought it sounded more like a logical reason than Tonya sabotaging her chances and staying until the very last minute.

 

[VGThuy]

I can't help but think it's part of Diane's lifelong enabling of Tonya. I really don't believe the USFS made her stay in Portland until the very last moment no matter how much they supposedly didn't like her.

 

[jenniferlyon]

I think you have also tapped into the main difference between Ashley Wagner and Gracie Gold.

Ashley is definitely the boss of her career, whereas Gold appeared to be at the mercy of people who told her what to do.

Gracie fell into the "ice princess" trap while Ashley somehow managed to escape it.

 

[Japanfan]

Gracie fell into the "ice princess" trap while Ashley somehow managed to escape it.

Yes. Pretty Gracie was trapped in the 'it' girl role, while Ashley was in her own words "the almost girl" IIRC. Ashley really had more freedom to create a persona on ice that worked for her. She didn't/wouldn't have as much pressure on her as Gracie. And Gracie appeared to struggle with the role, and I don't find it surprising that she developed (or always had) an eating disorder.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I can't help but think it's part of Diane's lifelong enabling of Tonya. I really don't believe the USFS made her stay in Portland until the very last moment no matter how much they supposedly didn't like her.

None of us can know what went on unless we were Tonya or her coaching team.

Having attended the 1992 US Championships in person, and seeing Tonya take a really bad spill on the triple axel during one of her short program run - throughs, I was very surprised she didn't ask for a medical bye like Todd Eldredge.

Before withdrawing, Eldredge was at practice very early in the week, and wasn't even attempting the triple axel at all, he appeared to be in that much pain.

As Tonya said in her post - free skate interview with Julie Moran, she really tried to wing it. So, I can imagine skating through that kind of pain must have been awful.

To have officials monitor her Olympic status, can't have helped her preparation, either.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Yes. Pretty Gracie was trapped in the 'it' girl role, while Ashley was in her own words "the almost girl" IIRC. Ashley really had more freedom to create a persona on ice that worked for her. She didn't/wouldn't have as much pressure on her as Gracie. And Gracie appeared to struggle with the role, and I don't find it surprising that she developed (or always had) an eating disorder.

I don't for one minute think Tennell is an ice princess type.

However, she seems savvy enough to know that is what is going to get her where she needs to go, and is accordingly playing that role.

 

[bardtoob]

Goodness ... American culture includes "every successful girl is a princess" and, because female figure skates are on ice, female figure skaters are ice princesses ... Like tea with ice is iced tea.

Nobody wants to be the ice waitress, ice tomboy, and ice meth whore, although they have existed and you can guess who they were.