I, Tonya

[Winnipeg]

I love the idea of a green unitard for her number. However it's an odd shade of green/chartreuse and the crotch area just looks weird.

And to think she had a crotch issue with another costume in the past. One should learn

 

[Yazmeen]

It is not an "alternative fact," because this is not a biography - it is a movie - it is BASED on a life. The character Tonya in the movie is played that way. It is not meant to be a historical biopic - IT IS ONLY A MOVIE.

Then if it's not really a biopic, and if they are taking so many liberties with what actually happened in her life and surrounding "The Incident," then the cast/crew should stop making statements about the REAL Tonya being a victim, etc. when they're not portraying what actually really happened.

 

[skatingguy]

Then if it's not really a biopic, and if they are taking so many liberties with what actually happened in her life and surrounding "The Incident," then the cast/crew should stop making statements about the REAL Tonya being a victim, etc. when they're not portraying what actually really happened.

The statements that I've seen from the cast have made me cringe at times because I think they overstate things in Tonya's favour, and understate other factors.

 

[Yazmeen]

^^^^THIS!

 

[berthesghost]

It is not an "alternative fact," because this is not a biography - it is a movie - it is BASED on a life. The character Tonya in the movie is played that way. It is not meant to be a historical biopic - IT IS ONLY A MOVIE.

what?
“Rope” is a piece of fiction based on the real life characters and events of Leopold and Loeb. Therefore it’s “just a movie” as it has changed the names, dates, persons invoked, outcome etc
This isn’t “I, Shirley” a fiction roughly based on the life of Tonya Harding. It’s a frickin subject-sanctioned biopic including the real life character being presentation, involved in and paid for the PR and awards events.

 

[LarrySK8]

Then if it's not really a biopic, and if they are taking so many liberties with what actually happened in her life and surrounding "The Incident," then the cast/crew should stop making statements about the REAL Tonya being a victim, etc. when they're not portraying what actually really happened.

What the cast and crew say at this time does not change the fact that this is a movie based on the book, "The Tonya Tapes," and that the description of it as, "based on .....," means that they do not mean to be completely accurate and truthful to the history/events the film is based upon. They wanted to make a successful film. I don't think the real story or the real Tonya is relevant to the movie because it is meant for entertainment.

It is not a "serious" movie. And I am focusing only on the movie here, not the real story or the real Tonya (a stupid person, truly she is, guilty of that AND being complicit) or what I think of her or what I think others should say or not say about her.

 

[HSCluv]

I am a big fan of Tonya's skating. Her 91 Nationals and Rudy Galindo's 96 Nationals performance are my two favorite performances ever. However, I finally got to see the movie day before yesterday. I also am one who did not like it. Did not like how Eckhardt was treated at all. Court room scene greatly bugged me throwing the ban in that scene too. They kept saying it was just supposed to be letters. I am not sure how death threats in a letter is supposed to be better than hitting someone's knee but maybe that's just me.

 

[MacMadame]

After the hearing, Deputy Dist. Atty. Norm Frink said there was "substantial evidence to support Ms. Harding's involvement prior to the assault. She's not going to plead guilty to it, but I think the facts speak for themselves," he said. The prosecution accepted the plea agreement because of the potentially large cost of a trial, he said."

http://articles.latimes.com/1994-03-17/news/mn-35216_1_figure-skating-team

I think this is important because I get tired of people saying "all she did was cover up afterward" because that's all she pled to. That's not how plea deals work. The defendant pleads to a lesser charge so that they avoid a possibly harsher sentence and the prosecution gets a sure thing instead of having the expense and capriciousness of a trial.

Now I supposed there are defendants who say "yeah, I'm guilty and I will just plead guilty and get it over with," but if their lawyer is worth anything, they get something in return for their plea.

Will non-skating fans really care though? There already seems to be enough backlash about Tonya being at the Golden Globes. I think people will forget in a few months, and be on to the next thing.

I agree.

Plus I am mystified why it's so important to many posters that the general public think about this incident exactly what they think. Who cares if someone decides Tonya was shafted or the victim? It's not like her sentence will get erased and she'll get her Pro career back. Or that Nancy will suddenly be a cripple instead of having recovered from the whack. People thought Tonya got a raw deal even before this movie. No one is going to agree 100% on any public incident. That's just life.

Aren't we forgetting something? Like severe hip injuries?

Off-topic but I wonder how much of this USFS knew at the time. It seems like Team Tara held that info back for quite some time after she retired. I don't remember it being public until after her surgeries. That doesn't mean they didn't tell USFS though.

 

[berthesghost]

People complain about movies they don’t like all the time. Doesn’t everyone have at least one movie they hated that none the less got awards and aclaim. I guess I don’t get why people mind that I found it poorly written and overrated. If Kwan can have an FSU thread about being overrated, why can’t I, Tonya?

 

[Vagabond]

Any other scene and I would agree with you but for me this rewriting of history is important because it’s central to the whole artistic concept of the movie. In real life, Tonya willingly agreed to a plea in order to avoid jail time. In the movie she is tricked, and starts screaming that she’d rather go to prison than be banned. It’s like doing a movie about the civil war where Lincoln agrees that individual states can determine if they continue slavery or not. It’s not a plot simplification, it’s an alternative fact made in order to support a flimsy theory ie. Tonya as victim.

Tonya Harding said in the interview broadcast earlier this month that she would rather have spent time in jail than have been banned for life from figure skating. The movie is told mostly from her and her ex-husband's points of view. Some victims of abuse have their own "truth," which may not correspond to the facts.

I did say a few days ago that this is not a movie for purists, and this is a good example of why I said it. As far as I can see, the only thing that would have been gained from adding in a separate scene showing what the USFSA did would have been more screen time.

People complain about movies they don’t like all the time. Doesn’t everyone have at least one movie they hated that none the less got awards and aclaim. I guess I don’t get why people mind that I found it poorly written and overrated. If Kwan can have an FSU thread about being overrated, why can’t I, Tonya?

Because the person who started the Kwan thread is a troll. PM me if you need the 411.

 

[VGThuy]

I think I have an issue with how that scene was portrayed because it continued the whole film's premise that Tonya was blindsided, after a series of events of her being blindsided and victimized, once again and how the unfair court system punished the victim more than the perpetrators (the movie truly made Tonya look like she had NOTHING to do with anything and was a victim of overzealous FBI agents). It also continues the film's perception of figure skating as an illegitimate sport. I think it's one thing to get her side of the story and her perception of how things occurred, but it's another to see a scene like that filmed in a way that makes it look like a third party, objective retelling of how it actually went down.

 

[Vagabond]

I think it's one thing to get her side of the story and her perception of how things occurred, but it's another to see a scene like that filmed in a way that makes it look like a third party, objective retelling of how it actually went down.

The film begins with this title: "The events of this film are based on irony free, wildly contradictory, and totally true interviews." If you feel that that scene was a third-party, objective retelling of how it actually went down, then,. clearly, you are not part of the film's target audience.

 

[VGThuy]

Saying it in a disclaimer is one thing but the way the film is shot and how they decided to shoot it and how it portrayed it says another thing completely. Especially with what the actors have said about being team Tonya. They certainly believe that’s how it went down. Robbie even said she didn’t think it mattered what happened with the incident because Tonya’s story and how she was treated was more interesting. They can say that all they want (probably to avoid legal liability) but it’s clear what stance the film took.

 

[meggonzo]

People complain about movies they don’t like all the time. Doesn’t everyone have at least one movie they hated that none the less got awards and aclaim. I guess I don’t get why people mind that I found it poorly written and overrated. If Kwan can have an FSU thread about being overrated, why can’t I, Tonya?

This reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where Elaine kept having to go see the English Patient and hated it.

 

[Vagabond]

Saying it in a disclaimer is one thing but the way the film is shot and how they decided to shoot it and how it portrayed it says another thing completely. Especially with what the actors have said about being team Tonya. They certainly believe that’s how it went down. Robbie even said she didn’t think it mattered what happened with the incident because Tonya’s story and how she was treated was more interesting. They can say that all they want (probably to avoid legal liability) but it’s clear what stance the film took.

*Ahem*

https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...er-to-spring-2017.100605/page-23#post-5061521

Here is a cycle of abuse graphic for people who need to understand why it's difficult for victims of abuse to escape when some outsiders think all it takes is for the victim to make a decision and leave:

http://domesticviolence.org/cycle-of-violence/

http://www.domesticviolenceroundtable.org/domestic-violence-cycle.html

The above links also talk about why victims don't always leave or leave right away. This problem would not be so widespread if it was just that easy. Even the strongest, most respected people can be victims of this sort of abuse.

It's when there's a lack of a healthy balance and/or some sort of abuse where I think there are problems for the person later on in life when trying to adjust to life afterwards. When I say abuse, I'm mostly thinking about emotional dependency on the structure that may prevent people from learning to be flexible and adaptable and overwhelming dominating adult figures making every decision for you and determining your self-worth. I do think there's something to be said about teaching people social skills when they are younger. Social skills are also gateways to success both professionally and socially.

"Paterfamilias" gives us an incredible insight to Prince Charles' upbringing and Phillip's demons haunting Charles and causing the cycle of neglect and abuse to continue for another generation.

You could say similar about Tonya Harding but seem to hold her to a different standard.

As I said upthread:

It's difficult for any victim of childhood abuse to get his or her life together, regardless of the socioeconomic circumstances. Unfortunately, many such people themselves become abusers. We do not give them a free pass because they were abused before they abused; we hold them accountable.

I think we can sympathize with Tonya Harding as the victim of abuse, but we should pity her, not sympathize with her, for being unable to overcome the effects of the abuse.

 

[VGThuy]

*Ahem*

https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...er-to-spring-2017.100605/page-23#post-5061521



You could say similar about Tonya Harding but seem to hold her to a different standard.

As I said upthread:

Wow, you really went out to try to do a hit job on me because I did not like this movie by quoting old posts from different threads. How long have you been stewing my posts in your head ready to pounce like that? I'll respond the best I can.

We're talking about the merits of the movie and what side they decided to take and how extreme it took it and how it did it in a way that tried to absolve her of any responsibility or any role in the incident or anything else. I said before, I know the film is called I, Tonya and it provided a disclaimer that the screenplay was based on interviews with both Jeff and Tonya. However, the film took a very obvious stance on what story and perspective it decided to tell and it did not shoot every scene with a winking tone. Rather, many of the scenes, dialogue, and monologue were shot in a dead serious way to get you to not only sympathize with Tonya but to take her side. The problem I had with this movie has been stated above and I think it wants you to see it as a comedy with an unreliable narrator but also see it as a serious film that takes the media portrayal of Tonya to task and redeem her at the same time and it does the latter in an extremely heavy-handed way that I did not particularly think was well-written.

As for your response to me, even in my original post, I noted the cop stop scene as a very well done scene that shows the cycle of abuse and then I spoke about how victims end up staying or going back to their abusers. I truly do not believe I have said anything in my review of the film nor with my posts on Tonya that contradict anything I've said before. I believe I've posted many things about Tonya that tried to show sympathy and understanding. One can sympathize with victims of abuse but also take them to task for wrongdoings that they have done. Often times, many people who find themselves in the criminal justice system have been abused as well. We still demand that they be held responsible for their actions especially for people who did not have a Triple Axel and Triple Lutz that we love. If the purpose of your post was to show that I held contradictory opinions, then if you find that to be so, then I'm only human and trying my best to synthesize my feelings about this. However, I do not believe anything I have said recently goes against anything I've said in the past.

P.S. regarding Prince Charles, no where in my post did I absolve him of any wrongdoing he may have committed after being a victim of Prince Phillip. If anything, I was setting the stage to show the bad acts he would do in the future. If the rest of the Crown tries to paint Prince Charles as nothing but a victim and a perfect person who never did anything wrong and had no role in the dissolution of his marriage to Princess Diana, then I'd have a similar reaction.

 

[Inessence]

I found this interesting:

TAKE THE ACE QUIZ: An ACE score is a tally of different types of abuse, neglect, and other hallmarks of a rough childhood. According to the Adverse Childhood Experiences study, the rougher your childhood, the higher your score is likely to be and the higher your risk for later health problems. You can take the test below:

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...e-quiz-and-learn-what-it-does-and-doesnt-mean

I bet Tonya's scores would be off the chart. I'm scared to even take this myself.

Interesting tidbit:

"Having a grandparent who loves you, a teacher who understands and believes in you, or a trusted friend you can confide in may mitigate the long-term effects of early trauma, psychologists say."
​

The movie I, Tonya really didn't focus on any "positive' influences or mentors in Tonya's life. Such as her coaches. You can tell they're nice people, but not really how they helped to mold her. At the very least, counter her mother's constant barrage of negativity. Even Lavona mentioned in the 20/20 Truth and Lies special that Diane Rawlinson could get Tonya to shape up. Too bad Rawlinson refuses to ever speak to anyone.

 

[Sasha is DIVINE]

My ACE score is 7.

I really didn't care for how LaVona was portrayed. From all the interviews I've seen of her, she's a lot like my own mother in that she was incredibly abusive but doesn't not only not see it, but she will never apologize for it as she truly cannot acknowledge it. The real LaVona is funny, but in a very unintentional way. Janney's LaVona is almost in on the joke and acts like her treatment is all a part of her master plan to get Tonya a way out. I truly believe LaVona's treatment of Tonya was hardly purposeful or a means to a bigger goal. She is likely an unmaternal woman who probably shouldn't have had children but thought she did the best she could (which obviously was not very good). My mom passed away last year and I don't think she ever realized how much damage she had truly done to me and my sisters. Sadly, I feel LaVona is the same way.

 

[Japanfan]

Janney's Lavona is almost in on the joke and acts like her treatment is all a part of her master plan to get Tonya a way out. I truly believe Lavona's treatment of Tonya was hardly purposeful or a means to a bigger goal. She is likely an unmaternal woman who probably shouldn't have had children but thought she did the best she could (which obviously was not very good). My mom passed away last year and I don't think she ever realized how much damage she had truly done to me and my sisters. Sadly, I feel Lavona is the same way.

I would think that most parents who harmed their children emotionally don't realize that they have done so or make amends. I am not intentionally excluding physical harm in saying that, but emphasize emotional harm because it is more wide-spread, not so easy to put your finger on, and manifests in so many ways.

Only parents who engaged in considerable self-reflection and sought change, perhaps through therapy, would get to a place where they could assume accountability.

The problem is that such parents have usually been emotionally damaged themselves, and so it passes down.

 

[skatingguy]

My ACE score is 7.

I really didn't care for how Lavona was portrayed. From all the interviews I've seen of her, she's a lot like my own mother in that she was incredibly abusive but doesn't not only not see it, but she will never apologize for it as she truly cannot acknowledge it. The real Lavona is funny, but in a very unintentional way. Janney's Lavona is almost in on the joke and acts like her treatment is all a part of her master plan to get Tonya a way out. I truly believe Lavona's treatment of Tonya was hardly purposeful or a means to a bigger goal. She is likely an unmaternal woman who probably shouldn't have had children but thought she did the best she could (which obviously was not very good). My mom passed away last year and I don't think she ever realized how much damage she had truly done to me and my sisters. Sadly, I feel Lavona is the same way.

Thank-you for sharing.

I think it's important to keep in mind that the characters in this movie are presented primarily from Tonya's point-of-view which I is why at times they seem to be one dimensional, or at least less than full.

 

[bardtoob]

If Kwan can have an FSU thread about being overrated, why can’t I, Tonya?

 

[ks777]

Nancy Kerrigan joins Inside Edition as special super bowl correspondent. Also she will be a special correspondent for Inside Edition during the winter Olympics.
http://www.insideedition.com/nancy-...dition-special-super-bowl-correspondent-40134

 

[Inessence]

Nancy Kerrigan joins Inside Edition as special super bowl correspondent. Also she will be a special correspondent for Inside Edition during the winter Olympics.
http://www.insideedition.com/nancy-...dition-special-super-bowl-correspondent-40134

I saw that! I was actually very surprised since Inside Edition was always Tonya’s domain and basically paid for her legal expenses back in the day.

 

[ks777]

I saw that! I was actually very surprised since Inside Edition was always Tonya’s domain and basically paid for her legal expenses back in the day.

yes I was watching Inside Edition too lol.

 

[Inessence]

Saying it in a disclaimer is one thing but the way the film is shot and how they decided to shoot it and how it portrayed it says another thing completely. Especially with what the actors have said about being team Tonya. They certainly believe that’s how it went down. Robbie even said she didn’t think it mattered what happened with the incident because Tonya’s story and how she was treated was more interesting. They can say that all they want (probably to avoid legal liability) but it’s clear what stance the film took.

And this matters why? The mainstream media certainly had no conscience about painting her as the “white trash villain” back in 1994 against Nancy’s “pretty princess” role. A cat fight for the ages to garner higher ratings.

 

[feraina]

So the New York Times has a podcast called The Daily. And yesterday’s episode was focused on Tonya Harding. The podcast host talked with the journalist who interviewed Tonya and wrote about it in an article recently. It was really interesting.

They pointed out something I hadn’t thought about before: we as a society let men move on for much graver offenses/crimes (they mention several famous examples), and yet we don’t let women like Tonya Harding move on. So there is clearly double standards going on here.

 

[VGThuy]

And this matters why? The mainstream media certainly had no conscience about painting her as the “white trash villain” back in 1994 against Nancy’s “pretty princess” role. A cat fight for the ages to garner higher ratings.

It matters to me. I'm only expressing my thoughts. Not a fan of the black/white and factual inaccuracies and missing the gray. If you don't like my take, that's cool too. I'm obviously hitting some nerves here, so I'll continue reading the thread and consider people's opinions but I'll try to stop taking it over because I think I've said what I've needed to say and I don't want people to think I'm overtaking the Tonya space with negativity.

 

[jenniferlyon]

This was an apparent plot device to simplify the "legal ramifications" and not make the audience sit through two different decisions by two different bodies (FBI/USFS) and have to explain why one was one punishment, the other a strip of titles and a ban. It was probably too confusing to write up. It simplifies her response to the punishments also. For the audience, most of whom do not know what we all know.

Other productions have melded different people into one character to advance the plot and simplify the film(s). Same here. I have no problem with it as long as people know, "IT IS ONLY A MOVIE."

The way I see it, the viewers who didn't know anything about Tonya before this movie came out will forget the details after a period of time has passed. Or, if this film really fires up their skating brain cells, they'll take the time to look everything up, read through it, watch the real-life, footage, etc. And hopefully, they will watch other skaters in the process and get hooked on our fine sport. (Yes, I am like the crack dealer of figure skating. Get 'em all addicted. Whatever it takes!)

 

[bardtoob]

(Yes, I am like the crack dealer of figure skating. Get 'em all addicted. Whatever it takes!)

Sounds like a good FSU occupation title

 

[PDilemma]

One of the most fascinating scenes for me was one in which the Tonya Harding character confronts a judge and asks why she is marked so low when she's got the jumps and the judge says that they also care about presentation. Tonya then says something about not being able to afford fancy dresses. Other than when there's a costume violation (and, as mentioned upthread, one of Tonya's dresses did violate the rules), presentation was not about dresses. If this is scene is based on what Harding told interviewers, then she either (1) still really doesn't understand what the second mark measured/measures or (2) doesn't want to admit that her presentation skills weren't up to snuff.

I haven't seen the movie, but the non-skating fans I know who have totally bought that scene. One guy posted a rant about how poor Tonya was held down by judges because she couldn't afford designer dresses and such. Whatever motivated it, it worked to push the persecuted Tonya theme. I suggested that there was way more to the presentation mark than costumes (which wasn't even in the criteria--other than, as you said if they violated rules) and that watching video of Tonya's competitors for contrast would begin to make her deficiencies in that area more obvious. He was having none of it and neither were the other people agreeing with him. They all totally bought in that it was all about her costumes and nothing else.

It seems that a lot of viewers missed the "faux" in the faux documentary style of the movie.